Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Is Lexus The Standard of the World?
http://www.lexus.com/fcv/lx.html?s_ocid=30195
Guys, can you believe the "Gadgetology" Lexus, keeps bringing to our market. I think I just found my dream vehicle. One that I will probably not be able to afford, but it is "eye candy". I gotta show my wife this superb automobile.
Well Lexus, is probably the best and are probably the "Standard of the World"
That is the topic question. Is Lexus, being #1 for many years now the new "Standard of the World" ?
Rocky
Guys, can you believe the "Gadgetology" Lexus, keeps bringing to our market. I think I just found my dream vehicle. One that I will probably not be able to afford, but it is "eye candy". I gotta show my wife this superb automobile.
Well Lexus, is probably the best and are probably the "Standard of the World"
That is the topic question. Is Lexus, being #1 for many years now the new "Standard of the World" ?
Rocky
Tagged:
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Rocky
Rocky
I know I have expensive taste but the "Gadgetology" is useful and yes they are buildng fine cars. As far as being better than BMW or Mercedes ???? I would take a Lexus, over a Bimmer or Merc.
Rocky
Rocky, Caddy ads of the 50s notwithstanding, I think the standard of the world has been and still is Mercedes. Yes, the Chrysler thing dragged them down a decade ago and they had some bad years, but they still make the fastest street-legal car from a volume carmaker don't they? Not to mention I think they have by far the most prestige, and such a diverse line-up that Lexus has tried to emulate them for years.
I am all for the Lexus line as a profit-maker for Toyota, and I think Lexi are very good vehicles, but they can't do sporty to save their lives, while MB covers both sides of the spectrum in every class.
BTW, I know that Lexus is repeatedly number 1 in things like sales experience and reliability, build quality, etc, on the JD Power lists. Is that what you were referring to with the #1 remark? There are certainly other areas where Lexus does not traditionally rise to #1.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Ford, Nissan and then Land Rover would disagree. The Range rover has been using a HD IRS setup that can tow almost 8,000 lbs for four years with no problems. Ford has been using IRS on the expedition for a while now and Nissan does it on a couple of their SUVs too.
There are only three places left where a Solid axle out does a Independent set up.
1. Hard Core rock crawling. By hard core I mean the custom Tub chassis rock buggies.
2. Hard Core drag racing when the cars are doing sub 10 second passes in the quarter. The imports proved back in the 90s with Supras, RX-7s and 300ZXs what IRS setups could handle sub 10 second passes but from a safety stand point solid axles are better.
3. Really heavy duty hauling or towing that full size pick up trucks do. A solid axle is just cheaper to engineer for that kind of work which makes more sense in the highly competive light pick up market. Also for goose neck trailers a Solid axle is a must for many reasons.
Yes all factors inluded. I think sales volume, reliability, build quality, performance, are all important factors.
I think one can make a strong case for Lexus. Sporting ? Well check out the IS 350 and IS 500. The GS, is pretty sporting.
Mercedes, BMW, are both great automobiles but from a reliability and build quality stand point they have let's say some "grey area's"
-Rocky
Me, I have driven the 325i, the C230, and the IS250, all sticks, and I would take the Lexus for its unique set of qualities (best stick shift of the lot, and my favorite interior among the three, the Germans are so DRAB about everything, not to mention that Toyota reliability and resale). But I understand why the press and the enthusiasts still rank the MB and BMW more highly.
Perhaps in order to continue this discussion, you should really spell out what you consider the criteria to be for the one automaker called the "standard of the world".
(Then we will all go around the mulberry tree debating every aspect of it for the next 200 posts! :-P And if I may toss my $0.02 into the discussion early, I don't think sales volume should be among the criteria. "Standard of the world" says to me the one that all other carmakers look to, if not for aspiration then at least for inspiration)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Just my $0.02.....only 199 more posts to go !!! :P :P
Rocky
Rocky
Lexus has too many rebadged Toyotas these days, what with the heavy preponderance of trucks and SUVs. I would like to see some of them go bye-bye, although the ES and the RX would probably need to stay as the sales foundation of the brand. As for RX, it would have been nice if Toyota had evolved the styling for the current model. It has had almost the same look for too long. And as for ES, don't forget that Toyota has already announced that the current model is the last rebadged Camry for this model line - the 2010 ES will be a RWD midsize sedan with no sharing with Toyota-badged cars. I think as long as this change doesn't cause the price to rise too much, this will be a good and long overdue move for Lexus.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Rocky
The new LX 570 is a bad-[non-permissible content removed] SUV. It shares it's platform with the new Tundra, right ?
Rocky
Rocky
Really? A Lexusized Mark X maybe?
Rocky
Anyway, back onto topic. I think Lexus is the standard of the world at least in the reliability/quality category. It is true that a purest would still lust after BMW or Infiniti but one can't deny that Lexus has them all beat when it comes to reliability and quality.
It is not Lexus' intention to make cars that compete with BMW. Lexus more or less took the "MB approach" which is to find the perfect balance between performance and luxury. It is always Lexus' design philosophy that being a luxury car maker they would NOT sacrifice luxury for extreme performance. One can see that philosophy applied too all of its sedan offerings. I would use the IS as an example, if Lexus really want to match the 3er in performance all they have to do is stiff-up the suspension (not hard) and drop a manual tranny to IS350. That'll pretty much shut those so-called enthusiasts up since it already has a kick-a** engine. However, to do that, Lexus will be forced to go against their design philosophy so at the end of day, they decided to make a Lexus IS instead of a Lexus 3-series-wanna-be.
Say all you can about Lexus being soft and non-sporty but after a weekend in a rental 350Z I was so glad to be back in my soft IS350.
It might be true to say that Lexus doesn't have a presence in other parts of the world besides NA 5 years ago but that's not the case anymore. Right now as we speak, Lexus is on sell in the following countries and I could miss a few:
USA
Canada
Japan
China
Taiwan
Korea
Europe (I know this is NOT a country but that only solidifies my point)
Also worth noting, in both USA and Taiwan, Lexus is the number one selling luxury brand. That's pretty amazing if you ask me given that its relatively short history when comparing to BMW, MB and even Cadillac.
By the way, the only rebadged Toyota in the Lexus line are the ES, GX and LX. Someone would argue that RX is a rebadged Highlander but the truth is that Highlander is a rebadged RX. To back up my statement let's think back which vehicle has paved the way for all the current cross-over craze? The answer is the original RX300, I rest my case. The only entry that I think is cheapening the Lexus brand is the ES350 due to its FWD setup and Camry blood-line. However, it is the best selling Lexus sedan so you can't really fault Lexus to give what the customers want.
Lexus IS
They will both share a platform with the new Tundra, yes.
bumpy: I think you're onto something with the Mark X, I was already kinda thinking that was what it would be when it gets here.
As far as louiswei's remarks that Lexus is trying to tread the middle ground, I think sure, that's what it is trying to do. MB is the other one trying to tread that middle ground, and I think many would argue that MB does a better job.
I would love to see the results of a customer survey as to which they more aspire to own. I bet MB would win the day on that score. But certainly on sales numbers, reliability, etc, Lexus is tops.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I can't say that I ran the Lexus at 10/10 like a racecar driver but I did bottom the car more than a few times. My cousin was so astounded by how well the Lexus stood up to all the wear and tear heaped upon that he ended up getting a Lexus IS 350 himself,after his 328 was on the verge mechanical failure. He me told that his BMer would never last a month in my hands.
Lexus makes a wonderful car that stand up to immense consumer use. In my case I felt that the IS 300 really stood up to the test of time. Even after I traded in the Lexus was in great mechanical condition.
In the time that I had the IS 300 exhibited superb handling and reliability. There was nothing more amazing than driving the IS 300 through sweeping high speed interchanges and blowing by Camaros and Porsches. I can't imagine what those drivers were thinking when my IS flew by their "sports cars".
Of course I have a new Lexus GS 350, its a great car nowand I image that it will also hold up quite well.
Although I am concerned that the larger 18 inch tires will be far more expensive to replace.
People in Civics and Corollas speed by me all the time on the freeways. It only means they are more willing to risk a speeding ticket. You are in a dream world if you think the IS would out run or out handle a Porsche. He was probably thinking what I would be thinking when you blew past going way over the speed limit. Where's a cop when you need one.
The IS300 was a blemish on the Lexus nameplate. Further tarnishing their image and making it harder to claim any part of a "Standard of the World".
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
How can the fastest production car Lexus has ever built (currently) be a "blemish" of the nameplate? :confuse: :confuse: IMO, the current generation IS and GS are the best examples of Lexus' ongoing pursuit on balancing luxury and performance
Just because the IS and GS don't fit your taste doesn't mean that they have cheapen the brand or tarnished the image.
LS is Lexus to those that are looking for real luxury. When you see an IS, ES or RX, you think there goes the neighborhood. Cadillac made the same mistake with several little POC cars. I guess Lexus will learn the hard way like Cadillac. I will tell you for a fact when my wife thought of getting a new Lexus about 4 years ago we went to the dealership. When she saw all the cheapo cars she turned and said they have ruined Lexus and walked out. She may have bought the LS430 except she thought it was ugly and had been drug into the mud with all the other offerings. When she bought her last Lexus in 1989 there was only the LS400 and ES250. You can believe what you want. Perception is a big factor in buying vehicles. ToyLex has the perception of reliability if that fails them they have little else to fall back on. Their designers are clueless, yet good copy cats.
Lexus is a luxury brand, like BMW and MB. They go head to head against each other. Toyota doesn't compete in that segment. If you can't get this fact straight then well...get the fact straight.
Lexus is a full-line luxury nameplate so it cannot live on only having the LS and LX. It needs the following:
Luxury compact (entry-level): IS
Luxury mid size: ES & GS
Luxury full size: LS
Luxury entry SUV: RX
Luxury mid size SUV: GX
Luxury full size SUV: LX
Toyota also offers a full lineup as such but WITHOUT the Luxury part.
I guess Lexus will learn the hard way like Cadillac
If the result of that lesson is breaking sales record every year and being the number one luxury nameplate in the USA then I'll say: rock on Lexus.
When she saw all the cheapo cars she turned and said they have ruined Lexus and walked out.
Well, Lexus lost your wife as a customer and gained another one with me so I guess they came out even at least. With the new LS setting record sales and the second generation IS being the 3rd best seller in the lineup I'll conclude that clearly your wife doesn't represent the majority of luxury car buyers.
When she bought her last Lexus in 1989 there was only the LS400 and ES250
If in 1989 Lexus had only 2 models and that's the case today, I'll say they are in big trouble!!
You can believe what you want. Perception is a big factor in buying vehicles.
Again, apparently most of the luxury car buyers don't agree with your perception.
Their designers are clueless, yet good copy cats.
Huh? Why are they clueless and who did they copy from? The first LS that your wife liked is indeed a rip-off of the old MB S-class (apparently she likes rip-offs :P , joking, no offense). But to say that's the case for the new LS is just totally WRONG.
I am not a big fan of Lexus because I think they are boring but with the exeption of the ES none of them look cheap inside or out. The IS was a great, great driving car and I think refining that original concept would have had a better chance taking out the 3 series then the new IS which is too bloated and soft.
You are wrong about sales at Lexus. Their number one selling vehicle the RX is down almost 10% so far this year. Unless they made a big jump in April. The IS series are down about the same percentage. I have almost enough fingers and toes to count the sales of GS cars. The new LS460 is doing well as it should. It is a vast improvement over the last decade of LS offerings. Lexus may as well get rid of the SC they have ruined it for sure. They don't sell enough for each dealer to have one a year. The SC400 was a beautiful car, that now looks CHEAP!
Of course it is. The RX is on its last year for the current model.
The IS series are down about the same percentage.
Due to the new G35 hype. The monthly sales of around 6000 units is still whole lot better than the first gen IS which is something like 1000.
Why didn't you mention that the ES sales improved like 50% from last year and LS improved almost 100%. The bottom line is the whole Lexus lineup is doing better than a year before.
I don't know what you were thinking but the current SC430 looks much more upscale than the old SC300/400. In my eyes, the original SC looks like a rebadged Toyota.
Must have hired a new design team for it.
Lexus used the same "L-finess" design philosophy for the LS just like they did it to the new GS, IS and ES. If you can't see the family resemblance between the new "L-finess" sedans then you should definitely have your eyes check out.
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Don't worry, you aren't the intended demography that Lexus has in mind for the IS anyway.
Lexus passenger cars reported best-ever April sales of 16,317 units, an increase of 32.9 percent over April 2006. Passenger car sales were led by the ES 350 luxury sedan with best-ever April sales of 6,544 units, up 54 percent. The all-new LS 460 and LS 460 L reported combined sales of 3,182, an increase of 221.9 percent.
Lexus Division light trucks reported April sales totaling 9,678 units. The RX 350 and RX 400h enjoyed combined April sales of 7,861 units. The RX 400h hybrid luxury utility vehicle reported sales of 1,384 units for the month.
I am positive of that. They know buyers such as myself do not consider little cars and luxury synonymous. Not sure why anyone would buy the ES unless they want to show friends they drive a Lexus instead of a Toyota Camry. Same appliance different trim.
Yeah, I am pretty sure that's what's happening...
Man, I just love to see posts like this. It's the posts like this which would totally destroy the poster's credibility.
:confuse: :confuse: :confuse: :sick:
PS. the IS April sales went up 0.2% from last year thus virtually unchanged and improved from March sales.
And what is this business about not being able to have small luxury cars? The premium small car market along witht he premium small SUV markets are the fastest growing segments in the auto industry right now.
is certainly subjective; but, again, when you have people commenting how nice the car you're driving is, particularly people that don't know you from Adam, that's gotta mean something. I mean, come on here! Let's try not to be so insulting!
On the ES, I just wasn't wowed by the way the car drove. The RX ended up fitting just right for me, as I was considering shopping for a cross-over SUV just to have a little more flexibility, as I had a Nissan Pathfinder for several years before the Maxima and kind of missed the flexibility.
I ended up kind of narrowing it down between an
Acura TL, since it kind of reminded me of my
very-quick Maxima, and the RX350, which afforded me more flexibility. In my mind, Acura blew it with their less than stellar treatment to a future new customer. Lexus really blew them away as far as the salesmanship and the overall treatment that I got as a customer.
I will say, when my lease comes to an end on the RX, I might give the GS a more serious look, unless the 2009 RX sucks me back into its clutches. I saw the drawing of the 2009 RX on Edmunds, and it looks very promising. Good luck with your GS!