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USED European Luxury Cars (pre 1990)
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As for your sturdy MB diesel, as you know diesel cars are a hard sell in America, so your car would really best appeal to the Mercedes bargain-hunter. I don't think it would be worth very much, especially with that high mileage, and you'd be better off keeping it I think. Or donating it perhaps and taking a write-off? Otherwise, I don't think the market would bear more than $3,500-4,000 for the car in the best of circumstances.
TY
2) a classic in the real sense, 3) just another old car 4)something to run away from due to high maintenance, etc. could you help me with your opinion on this?
I DID drive a '67 250 SL on a whim, pretty nice, 4 spd, both tops, probably a 3-, 133K miles, drove nice, asking price $24K..... the books seem to thnk price should be between 10 and 16K. Is this more of a realistic price?
Would a car like this likely hold it's value? How much should I expect to spend on maint/month if it drives 3K per year?
Thanks for the help. I really am glad to have found this forum to help on this question.
with about 77K miles. Everything works fine, but
I noticed something when I hit a traffic jam.
Driving at that slow speed, there is a distinct
oily smell coming through the vent. At higher
speeds, there is enough fresh air coming in and
you don't notice it.
Is this just something about the way vents were
designed at that time? Or could it indicate
a serious problem?
--concerned
The annoying problems you heard about were probably the usual complaints about Mercedes climate control systems, which were STILL substandard even around 1990--so you'll have to fiddle and test all the climate controls a great deal to be sure they are in good working order before you buy. The power tops also had glitches, sometimes exhibiting a less than smooth operation and water sealing problems. So test the top for smoothness and look for signs of water entry. Check also for irregular tire wear, as the early 90s SLs had alignment problems...if the car feels like it is wandering over ruts and bumps, you may need front end work.
But all in all, the newer SLs are prettier and sportier than the older cars...the only real advantage of the 560SL is a) price and b) that MB worked a lot of the bugs out of the old platform by 1988.
Like I always say for any used Benz:
1. Give the climate controls and electronics a very good testing yourself
2. Examine all service records and reject any car without them.
3. Have the car thoroughly examined by a qualified MERCEDES technician, not an Audi or Porsche or other "German" shop.
4. Don't buy a high mileage car, or if you do, pay very little for it. I wouldn't go for one much over 100,000 miles, on a complicated car like this, because this is when all the expensive service and repair items are likely, statistically, to begin. I personally think buying any Benz over 150K is foolish unless it is truly a bargain basement price, way, way, below wholesale book value.
It has been repeatedly suggested by my business colleagues that I stop driving a 1990 VW Golf 4d (50K miles) around town and buy a Lincoln, MB, BMW, Audi, or Jag XJ6. They suggested that older classic luxury or sports cars were acceptable substitutes for a new luxury car. I don't have the money to buy new. I would like something big and nice...I am not a small person and would be driving some big and some snooty(discriminating tastes) type people around.
I love the big old SELs. I got to drive a 6.9 and a 500SEL for a few weeks each. I hate the 190s. I love the Jaguar XJ6s too. I don't know if I can afford anything I like though. I have crossed all Audis off the list because of previous problems we have had with them. I would also rather not end up with a Volvo or an older American luxo boat, but they would be better than the VW.
What models and years look reasonable at both ends (low 3k - high 7k) of the range. Again, I love big and medium sized MBs and Jags.
Are there cars I should concentrate on and what should I avoid.
Thanks in advance...I have enjoyed and benefited from your advice to others...
With older luxury cars, you must buy the lowest mileage and best car you can afford. There are no "bargains". Even if someone GAVE you a 500SEL or XJ6 "needing work" you'd lose big time. Remember, the engines on these cars are worth more than the entire automobile!
I'd say for $7K find yourself a nicely maintained BMW 325 from the late 80s. It's a pretty safe bet and a decent car to drive, much more fun than a Benz or Jag. If you must have a Benz, try to find a 300E sedan. A Jag in your price range is not a good idea, IMO.
Regarding price, the supply is large (almost 70,000 made, and they last a long time), the demand somewhat low (due to age, abundance on the market and fear of repair costs, as well as a somewhat clumsy design compared to the earlier and much more attractive 280SLs), so the prices are not very high. Around $12K-13K should buy you a really, really nice one. The car has no collectible car value and isn't likely to for the above-named reasons...if it's still dropping in value after close to thirty years, it's not going up in our lifetimes I don't think.
Your mechanic can give you an idea of expenses. With the low mileage, you should be fine, but by all means have him check the timing chain and make sure the timing chain modifications have been done to this car (a double-chain instead of a single one).
Host
i have a personal facination with m-b diesels. i think i just love the diesels in general, but i live in the states and m-b is the only maker who still sells them (and not that many at that). i've been scanning the local paper lately looking at the non-turbo charged models from the early 80's and found a few in my area. i took the time to look at 3 of them this weekend. i found a bomb, an ok wagon, and a very clean 83 240D 4 speed. all of the above cars had an asking price for well over the kelley blue book price. from the one comment i read above on the diesels, the prices should not command any sort of premium even if serious restoration work had been done to them. i'm certain i will negotiate for the 83 240D. they are asking 4k on this car that had the engine rebuilt 50k ago. the blue book says about 2300$. should i add any more for a re-built engine?
As for early M-B diesel prices, I suppose an extra clean mint car would bring over Kelley Blue Book prices, but it would have to be something exceptional to "beat the book". Restored or "mint" originals do beat book prices, but remember, we are talking about 'gems' here, not just somebody's used car.
I presume you are prepared, in a 240D, to be the slowest car on the road. There is a certain amount of anxiety associated with driving this model for that reason.
thanks so much for the advice. i'll let you know how the test drive goes after tonight. i'm thinking its clean and well kept so not perfect so maybe i'll off 1900$. we'll see if he bites.
If the car turns out to be too "rough" for you (they are rather vicious vibrators) you could try stepping up to a 300D, although I recommend a 300SD (turbo). In all Mercedes of that era, pay particular attention to the heating/ a/c systems, which are generally not very good.
i offered 1700$. i'm not sure if they will take it. the car is in a unique position. apparently the pastor of a church donated it to the church and now someone from the business office is in charge of getting rid of it. of course, several people on the "inside" have expressed an interest if nobody on the "outside" will pay what they want. we'll see what happens.
Aha! I was right about the a/c though. It doesn't matter if it works or not...it blows the same temperature working or not
Oh, the 220D is a much smoother and more sophisticated diesel engine than the old 190D and 200D. Night and day difference...the 300SD is even better IMO.
Kind of reminded me of how you had to drive the Fiat 850, wringing every last ounce/foot of torque out of it just to get away from a stop sign. Only in the 850 you didn't even know you were always shifting at 5 grand, it was that smooth. Can't say that about the old VW diesel. I'm sure the MB is smoother.
Modern diesel cars are much improved, although with state and Federal crack-downs on diesel emissions just around the corner, I really can't see any advantages to these cars anymore.
Am interested in buying from Volo Museum, is
15,000 too high for mint condition w/hardtop?
61,000 miles
Click on New Arrivals, go tp the third page and scroll down. What do you think?
So be careful and think it out carefully would be my advice. It has been my experience that museum cars usually need work.
So far so good...it is as slow and noisy and I told you, but I've added some dyna-mat insulation, had a full monster service done and fixed the tape deck, so it's not half bad. Also scrubbed the car inside and out to get rid of the diesel odor, and sprayed everything with OZIUM odor killer, including the vents, trunk, etc.
So right now I'm into the car for a total of $2,000 including the purchase, plates, taxes and major service. Not bad for a like-new sedan, even if it is a bit clunky. I'm amazed how well someone took care of this car.
Only thing left to do is repair, at some point, the notorious a/c system, which (as usual) has failed on this car. I located a compressor for $75 (used but good), but some people may not know that if a compressor "eats it" while driving, you really must replace the dryer and the expansion valve, because the system has been contaminated by the debris from the bad compressor. So I'm searching now for these parts.
There's a little whine in the differential but that's gear wear and could last for 50K miles...one never knows, but used cars are always a bit of a risk, right?
As for which car to choose, they are rather radically different automobiles so I think the issue is more one of taste than comparison...you'd be well advised to spend a few hours in each car and allow the car to reveal itself to you, both pros and cons.
I would say though unless you are really into heart-stopping acceleration and extremely fast driving, the Corvette may be more car than you need. The 560 would be better for luxury long distance cruising.
One, the 230SL is the least collectible of the 6 cylinder AL series, whereas the 280SL is the most collectible and potentially best "investment" ( we mean by "investment", in relation to other collector cars, not in relation to stocks or mutual funds!).
Second, rust is a big no-no on these cars, and it will bedevil you... also expensive to fix.
Third, you can buy a nice 230SL for around $16K (decent, not a show car), and rust repair and paint would gobble up $5K easily
Fourth--an engine would cost you around $5K-6K easily.
Fifth--the 230SL is pretty slow and a rather stripped car compared to a 280SL
So, I'd say if you like the 230SL, it is fully priced as you see it and you'd best be careful how much more you put into it. As a driver it might be an okay deal... I'd certainly offer less, maybe around $8,500, because of the rust issue. You definitely have $10K work ahead of you, yes. If you need a hobby, go for it, otherwise, try to pick off that clean 280SL if you can..... and make sure it's a US car, not a European one, if possible. Last of all, a stick shift car is considered more desirable and worth perhaps $1,000-1,500 more.
good luck!
Shift right
I don't really see the sense in buying a less than perfect example of a 6.9, and I don't see the point in paying very much for one, because they aren't worth anything as a collectible.
Just look at one as you would a used car. If you want a nice old luxury 4-door Benz, go for an 80s model 560SEL. They are everything a 6.9 is and much more, and if you shop you can find them priced quite reasonably.
Thanks
These are sturdy cars you want to buy, drive and use up. They hate being stored in garages, and will deteriorate rapidly if you do that.
Thanks