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The 4-8% of the car buying public in the US who drive a manual transmission are going to be soooo disappointed. Long live the "drones" .
Indeed the drones win.
So far Honda has not developed an automatic capable to withstanding the 250 ft. lbs of torque reliably, so the 2008 CR-V Diesel shoudl come with the 6 spd manual, like the one readily available in EU.
and I use Mobil 1 0W-20, prehaps I should have spaced the Mobil 1 and the OW-20 more :-)
Traitor
Maybe you should move to Europe or Asia where the manual transmission is common. In the US it is not and to call the people who buy an auto transmission "drones" is insulting. You seem to have your definition of what a real driver is, too bad it doesn't match reality.
http://www.carview.co.jp/road_impression/2006/honda_stream/default.asp
Think I prefer the new CR-V, although I would ultimately prefer the new CR-V with the Stream's 2+3+2 seating layout.
BTW, Honda's official release date for the new Stream is the 4th of July....can you get any more American than that?! Makes me wonder if we will, in fact, see the Stream / Latitude at some point.
Honda became what it is because it did not always do what the MBAs thought was right, but what engineers and people who have passion for driving thought was right. If Honda lets MBAs and accountants dictate what to do it will become another GM. And we all know how exciting GM cars are.
Hits too close to home.
Americans Shifting Gears in Smaller Numbers Click on the "listen" button.
One theory on why the numbers keep falling: drivers are too busy with cell phones and cappuccinos to shift gears.
In 20 years time, all cars will probably have bland CVT's, and the general understanding of the workings of power trains will be as obscure to us lazy Americans as food preparation is now.
In 20 years time, all cars will probably have bland CVT's, and the general understanding of the workings of power trains will be as obscure to us lazy Americans as food preparation is now.
Exactly my point, Europeans and asians have cell phones and cappucinnos as well. The real culprit is much closer to the surface. People just DON'T WANT TO EXPAND ENERGY here in the US. Anyone can interpret it whatever way they see fit.
So where does all the horsepower go?
Looks like driveline losses are much less than idle time.
Steve, Host
I concur. My understanding is that DSG's put the Tiptronics to shame.
Last year I went back to driving a stick after 7 years of an auto. I love stick but drive into Boston every day. The stick isn't the end of the world and I don't complain about it.
But I did take a little spill this past week and wasn't able to drive the stick. A DSG would've allowed me to still drive my vehicle. I'll have to see if my VW sales person will arrange a "loaner" for me to see if I like it.
Thanks,
Chintan Talati
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com
http://world.honda.com/history/challenge/1968hondamatic/text/01.html
http://world.honda.com/history/challenge/1968hondamatic/text/01.html
This is what Mr. Honda had to say about the Automatic Honda:
“With this car,” Honda said, “the driver only needs to hold the steering wheel. Even Fujisawa can drive it.”
I still say, the engines are designed to be used with manual, even today.
not to mention the required maximum engine speed of 8,000 rpm—twice that of a conventional engine—BW claimed they couldn’t find any AT specifications that accommodated those conditions.
-juice
PS RAV4 lost the option, too. Now it's Forester and BMW X3, Grand Vitara, any others?
Should we all still be driving without power steering? Someone would probably say that's real driving too.
Since some just don't want to accept the norm (at least in the US) I guess they better hang on to their manual transmission vehicles.
Following the same logic, we can say that since 60% of the US population is overweight, does that mean that being fat is the norm?
Since majority of the US population has no clue about money and is in debt up to their ears, is that the norm?
While the rule of majority seems to be what we have in this country, sometime the un-educated, or ill-educated majority does not know what is right and what is wrong.
Like my dad has been saying for years: "If everyone else jumped off the bridge, would you too?"
Manual trannies are cheaper, quicker, more fuel efficient, and more durable. All 4 of those things are important to me. That's a lot to give up. Oh, and you can jump start 'em.
Automatics are easier to use, but that's about it. Technology has narrowed the gap, but they are still not up to par.
DSG is compelling, but that's very expensive, and with twin clutches I'd hate to see what that would cost to fix.
Tone dialing is better than rotary in just about every way, there was no real trade-off.
Power steering? For track cars, actually, yes! In fact NA Miatas without power steering are actually sought after for that reason. Also, hydraulic systems use up a lot of power, hence we see the new electronic power steering systems taking over that technology, especially as fuel economy becomes more important.
Like I said, bad examples...
-juice
You mean push start them right?
Manual trannies are cheaper, quicker, more fuel efficient, and more durable.
Not necessarily. Since autos represent the bulk of the business, it's probably more expensive to design and manufacture sticks when it's all said and done. Further, since EPA testing has to be done for each engine/transmission combo and sticks represent about 5% of all sales, that cost has to be spread amongst fewer units.
As for efficiency, most autos now equal or exceed their manual siblings.
Durability - most autos go forever now.
Quicker - if you know how to drive a manual it is.
The only thing the stick has over the auto is driver participation. Soon I expect we'll be paying extra for that particular excitement.
Don't get me wrong - I'm a manual lover. But we're a dying breed.
Not necessarily. Since autos represent the bulk of the business, it's probably more expensive to design and manufacture sticks when it's all said and done. Further, since EPA testing has to be done for each engine/transmission combo and sticks represent about 5% of all sales, that cost has to be spread amongst fewer units.
As for efficiency, most autos now equal or exceed their manual siblings.
Durability - most autos go forever now.
Quicker - if you know how to drive a manual it is.
The only thing the stick has over the auto is driver participation. Soon I expect we'll be paying extra for that particular excitement.
Don't get me wrong - I'm a manual lover. But we're a dying breed.
You are forgetting that it is the US phenomenon. The rest of the world still gets stick. So, the R&D costs are not the case here. And the 5% figure is for the US sales. The rest of the world is about 80-90% mauals.
I never understood why manifacturers charge more for auto's. It is more of "because we can" logic. Either tranny costs money to make, but I am glad that most still charge extra for auto. Except Acura/Honda, they offer TSX with manual or auto at the same price.
In fact, in order to get a manual CR-V you have to take the higher EX trim, over the lower cost LX. So, manual in the CR-V is the performance option, not the low cost option.
Autos achieve similar fuel economy through taller final drive, which even further inhibits excintg perfomance that a Honda engine offers. If an auto and manual had the same gear ratios and same final drive, auto would be 20-30% less efficient.
As far as paying more for stick, Corvette comes standard with auto, manual is an $800 option. Sad, sad, sad.
Come to think of it, the Speed6 *only* comes in a stick shift!
rob: yes, I meant push start.
Automatics have narrowed the gap, but I'd rather replace a clutch vs. having to rebuild an automatic, it's about 1/10th the cost. And in acceleration autos fall way behind, unless you're talking about DSG.
-juice
That holds true only if the same powertrains are sold into those markets.
Europe is now about 70% manuals and dropping fast.
The bottom line is you live in the US. The US is a automatic market. As you have said and seen, fewer and fewer manuals are available. Sorry it upsets you.
Maybe my examples weren't the best but I think you get the idea---you just don't want to accept that a manual transmission and someone who can drive one is a dying breed in this country.
I didn't want to debate the merits of AT vs. MT but you guys did it and you know what? Based on what I've read (thanks robr2) the AT comes out pretty well.
I would bet with 95% confidence that the 2008 Diesel CR-V will be available with Manual only. The diesel CR-V will replace the current EX manual as the only stick shifted CR-V.
This is when I plan on getting mine. That way I can laugh at all the @#$%^& who don't want to or don't know how to drive stick as I am driving around in an SUV that gets 35-40 mpg and runs on filtered used frying oil, while producing 250 ft. lbs of torque.
that I had heard there was to be a media preview for the new CR-V in Vancouver in July. Wonder if they bumped it up a bit and that's what miamicrv1 came across? I would say that anyone in the Vancouver/Whistler area should arm themselves with a digital camera and be on the lookout!
Nice post, miamicrv1!
I was just at a Honda dealership and the salesperson noticed that the battery was dead. He found out by trying to unlock the car with the key fob.
So after boosting the battery, I took the CRV for a test drive, but I noticed three things. First the radio didn't work, secondly that the driver's side auto window didn't work, and thirdly the warning bell didn't sound when the headlights were left on. So when I asked him about it, he said that because the battery died...the technicians would have to do some resetting of the computer that controls the radio, warning bell and the auto window.
Does anyone know if this is the case? I would appreciate anyone with knowledge of this ASAP.
Thanks,
pogs2006
Dan
BTW, the code for the radio should be in the owner's manual packet.
Does anyone know if this is the case? I would appreciate anyone with knowledge of this ASAP.
More than likely, the vehicle hadn't yet been prepped. Many fuses are installed during prep that may account for some of those issues.
If you are correct about the space being more narrow, there is no reason not to have a console. The existing pass-through was already pretty tight.
2007 Honda CR-V
Some of the posts in here will be moved over there to help seed the discussion, so the thread chronology may be a bit disjointed for a day or so.
Steve, Host
Steve, Host
Meanwhile you can find some posts using search engine caches - here's the last page of posts in the Honda CR-V engine fires discussion courtesy of Google.
Steve, Host