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Honda Odyssey vs. Hyundai Entourage vs. Kia Sedona vs. Toyota Sienna
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Comments
Really? Do you realize that in last year's auto issue the 2004 Sonata was rated the single most reliable car in their entire survey?
There exists no such bias.
A car that earns the best safety score ever given to an automobile (Sedona/Entourage) by NHTSA, which has ESC and 6 airbags standard across all trim levels (ESC saves lives!!), has great warranty, roadside assistance (which is $1000 + with other makes), decent looks, good fit and finish and low price with abundant features deserves to be a top pick.
I am not saying Toyota and Honda do not deserve to sweep top honors, just give credit where it is due. I expected at least 1 Hyundai to make it to top pick list and was disappointed, to say the least.
Maybe they should do a "Best Buy" award, in addition to "Top Pick". Sometimes buyers aren't necessarily looking for the very best vehicle in that class, they want the best bargain.
I'm sure the deck in that case would be stacked towards most Hyundai/Kia models.
Who cares what a crossover SUV costs? You're paying premium price for those and for a truck frame.
I'm curious, for $25K did you get memory seats, power driver and passenger seats, tri-zone AC, thirteen speakers, tire pressure monitor, adjustable pedals, power side doors and power lift gate, sun roof, the 6 CD changer, power second row windows and power third row ventilation windows, DVD player among the things that come to mind most immediately? You get that and more for well under $30K with the Entourage. You don't get that for close to $30k in the Sienna.
"Crossovers" are based on a car frame.
memory seats? no
power driver and passenger seats? driver yes
tri-zone AC? two zone, manual
thirteen speakers? did not count, stereo sounds good though
tire pressure monitor? yes, and the real one, not ABS based
adjustable pedals? no, but wheel tilts/telescopes
power side doors? yes
power lift gate? no, but there is a power assist to close it
sun roof? no
6 CD changer? yes, with control on steering wheels
power second row windows? yes
power third row ventilation windows? yes
DVD player? yes, but aftermarket, $900
The Sienna is equipped better than you seem to think.
I did look at an Entourage Limited, but that model did not include a moonroof or a 6CD changer, those only come in option package.
If you add both of those the Entourage costs a bit more than I paid, or about the same price as my Sienna + DVD player I had put in, and I got a 12" screen that makes the factory DVD screen look puny.
I test drove a loaded Kia Sedona, and it didn't have auto up driver's window, plus the Koreans do not offer an 8th seating position. So there's a couple of things I got that you didn't.
I also have a lot more horsepower and noticeably quicker acceleration, though the Kia was not lacking in any way. Sienna has more space, too, it felt wider and more substantial.
The Korean vans come very well equipped, but pick the right package with the Sienna and it's a better value than most people seem to think.
Funny thing is I only noticed some of these things after I bought it, but the Sienna has a few surprises up its sleeve. Even at the $25k price level, you can get:
* trip computer
* power vented 3rd row windows
* 3rd row position for tailgating (Ody lacks. Kia?)
* puddle lamps
* tow package included (ATF cooler)
* roof rack cross bars
* heated mirrors
* wiper de-icers
* auto UP driver's window
* 8 adult-sized seats (the only van that offers this)
The Ody EX lacks all but the mirrors and de-icers, I believe (please correct me if I'm wrong).
Not sure how many of those items the Entourage and Sedona offer, but at least a couple.
So in terms of content it's not quite as clear as people think. Toyota offers more value than you first might expect.
Cheers. :shades:
It offers though:
*Projector Headlamps (probably one of the nicest non-HID headlights along with GMC Acadia)
*Projector fog lights
*Leather seats
*Heated seats with 5 settings
*Integrated memory system for seats, pedals and mirrors
*Digital tri zone climate control with cabin filter and air ionizer built in
*Auto dipping mirrors in reverse
*Active Head Restraints
*660W sound system with 2 subwoofers and 11 speakers (The only mainstream van that features a 7.1 Dolby Digital/Prologic7/DTS system) a treat for audiophiles
*Wireless headphones
*5 years unlimited roadside assistance in continental US ($1000 value)
*Much longer warranty on powertrain, bumper to bumper or perforation ($1000 value over the 3yr/36K and 5yr/60K warranty)
*Better safety (remember 07 sienna fared poor in rear crash test conducted by IIHS)
The only thing we are missing is the 8th seat. And I paid 27,700 for mine, $1000 more than you. It just does not add up!! Similarly equipped the Sienna costs $6000 more even before you purchase a matching warranty.
The Sienna is a fantastic car, no doubt, but as far as value goes....?
*Park assist
*Power tailgate
*Homelink transceiver
*Electrochromic rearview mirror
We tried leather and actually preferred cloth. It's just more comfortable, softer and grippier, and breathes better. Funny thing was that limited what options we could get! :mad:
So I didn't want leather. Ideally I would have chosen heated cloth seats. Hyundai actually offers that combo in the SE model, so I probably would have gone that way had I bought a Hyundai - loaded up SE.
The power seat controls are ripped right from Mercedes-Benz, brilliant design. Is that the Mercedes lawyers on the phone over at Hyundai?
Sienna has the cabin filter too. And homelink. And a conversation mirror.
We got wireless headphones with our DVD player. To be honest, OE cannot beat aftermarket. My screen is 12", TWELVE inches. You're counting the number of speakers, so I can too. :P
12" means the viewing area is probably double, or even more, compared to stock. To be honest now that we're used to 12" the OE ones are totally unacceptable. We'd need binoculars to see those tiny screens.
As for roadside assistance, Costco Executive Members that get insurance through Ameriprise get that for free. Zero. So the value to me for that is $0.
For me, as in we're all different, our priorities vary. I wanted cloth. I really wanted a middle row with 3 seats (my wife watched The Sound of Music with the kids on our last road trip, so I'm sure she'd agree). With captain's chairs you can't do that, or you have to punish one of the kids by forcing them in to the 3rd row.
The seat was the deciding factor. We were buying for max space and 8 is more than 7.
I drove the Sedona, the 3.8l is torquey but if you sample the Toyota you will agree it is substantially quicker, plus gas mileage is actually a little better, and that is according to the EPA, CR, and even the trip computer on my test drives.
More power, less fuel is an important advantage I could not ignore.
I'll say it again - the 3.8l Sedona was fine, though.
I don't see the need for most people for AWD. Front wheel drive has served me well ever since I have been driving front wheel drives - 1984. I can see that some people may need AWD but the majority don't
In car navigation - don't understand why anyone wants a $2000 navigation system when a navigation system can be had for under $300 - you can buy 6 new navigation systems through the years probably with newer and better features.
I've read a lot of good things about HID - you're probably right that this option is good to have. The projection headlights on the Entourage are better than standard headlights and I was thinking on buying the Philips +50 headlights to see how much brighter they are compared to what stock is.
I did sit in the 2nd row of the Sienna and at I felt it didn't have as much room as the Entourage. I'm only 6' and when I sat in the Sienna I tried to put the seat further back and it was as far back as it could go... felt cramped.
I paid $22,700 for the Entourage, it has 2 power sliding doors, 7 passenger seating which we usually only use 4, I have a 9" DVD player from my last car, plan on buying a nav system for under $200 and if I upgrade the bulbs for $20 (may not so far night driving is OK without upgrading) I spent under $23,000. Oh, I don't have a 6 CD changer, I didn't feel I needed one and I do have a longer factory warranty - something that hopefully I won't need and paid $4000 less.
To each his/her own!
The reason for an in-dash is that the screen is bigger, so it is easier to see with a quick glance and be able to keep your eyes on the road more; you can attach an IPod module to it and hide the connector and the IPod; you can put a backup camera module with it--a very nice safety feature on a minivan; and a built-in will auto dim at night. Also, an aftermarket will allow you to upgrade the nav system over the time you have it. Finally, an in-dash will allow you to control the radio and nav system in one large central, easy-to-reach place (this is especially true with the placement of the radio and therefore the location of the in-dash nav in the Entourage).
I guess you could use it to back up a car to a trailer hitch if you tow. Or for very tight parking spots. But we're way out in the 'burbs, and even parallel parking yesterday in downtown DC I was fine.
Check out the GPS Navigation threads - I had a Garmin StreetPilot c320 and bought another c340 model. It was $350, the lowest price you'll pay for a model that has text-to-speech technology (that means it reads the street names and numbers).
Indeed, this has been a very civil discussion. :shades:
I think the cool thing about the minivan segment is that it is "mature", i.e. all the major players know exactly what is needed to produce a competitive van:
* magic disappearing 3rd row seats
* 2nd row windows that slide down
* a big V6 with plentiful power
* better-than-SUV fuel efficiency and space
* a long options list to customize it
Nissan is close, but really the four that nailed the formula are Honda, Toyota, Kia, and Hyundai. Naturally those were my top contenders.
I don't travel by a navigation system now although I plan on getting a low end one such as the Mio 220. I still print out maps and such from computerized sources. Having a larger screen is probably a good thing as I have glasses now and a 3.5" screen may be hard to see ... won't know until I try it. I'm thinking having one is much better than having a small not complete paper "map" printed from a computer. I have had a few instances within the past few years where having something tell you where to go would have made traveling much easier. I would also think that a windshield mounted device would help with looking at the road ahead as you glance at it, maybe not.
As for the backup camera, I've been driving minivans now for about 12 years and never had the need for a back up camera, I even have parked in crowded cities although living in the suburbs now has decreased my ability to parallel park.
I'm not into all those gadgets all together, one part has a problem and then you lose it all when it gets fixed. The other thing is lets say 3 years down the line something does go wrong and it can't be fixed - replacing the unit with the same sized one may be impossible; I have heard too many stories of such a case (appliances, TV's and things like that).
We parked next to a Lexus the other night and it did have an on-board navigation system that was huge. I certainly could see it from my seat in the van but still couldn't read the writing!
Nah, Garmin let you backup your Favorites with MapSource. You can even plan your trip before you ever leave, including all your stops.
I know the Favorites backup works because I copied mine from my older c320 to my newer c340 model. Saved me from typing in 60 addresses! You won't lose anything if it breaks, so long as you backed 'em up.
Try the Mio 520, I think it's called. That has a 4.3" screen and still sells for around $350 or so. The smaller Mio is just $200. I considered it but when I went to Circuit City the power supply on the Mio display model had broken and I took that as a sign that I should stick with Garmin. Especially since I'd have to re-enter all my Favorites.
I think the Mio uses the same mapping software as Tom Tom does. Check them out. Circuit City has them on display so you can try them side by side. IMO even though Garmins are the most expensive, they're the best. :shades:
Don't know how or if Mio does favorites. The 220 has gotten a lot of good user reviews and I figured I'd try it. A friend recently got a fully loaded GPS (paid about $600) with traffic alerts and it doesn't alert him at times, doesn't seem like it has TTS and the Mio seems to have SIRF and WAAS (or is it WASS?) like the more expensive units. Just ordered it today at Staples for $150, I'll give it a shot!
Congrats. Let us know how you like it.
From what I've heard the interface isn't quite as user-friendly but the maps themselves are quite good.
HID, GPS Navigation are offered in Korean market where Hyundai is a major player. I was even considering importing HID headlight set from Seoul 4 years back for my Hyundai XG300L. In US, the car it is competing in the value segment and 07 azera (XG replacement) still has no HID!!
And I can't see a 43K Sienna parked next to a 22K Sienna CE with identical body style, drivetrain and exterior finish. That was also a major reason for my buying a 2001 XG (my first Hyundai) rather than my first choice VW Passat, the price range with a Hyundai is simply tighter and even the base model has goodies. The cheapest Passat then was $22,000 and the most expensive with W8 and fourmotion a staggering $47,000. Also the cheapest Accord at 17K had no AC and crank windows!!
Hyundai Entourage = Kia Sedona (Hyundai owns Kia)
One other advantage of a good back up camera is that a good one has very bright LED lights on it which light up your reverse path at night like daytime.
Finally, back up sensors on the Entourage (or any minivan) are a life saver. I wasn't sure if I trusted them at first, but once you get comfortable with them, it makes it so much easier to back up in a tight space. They should be standard. I wouldn't have another vehicle, especially a minivan, etc without them.
Also, the 2007 Sienna got a major upgrade - the 3.5l engine offers +51 horsepower, a huge difference. Fuel economy didn't drop at all, either.
I guess you could say a $42k Sienna does share a platform with base models costing half as much, but if you want AWD and HIDs and GPS this is your only choice in vans.
Out in the real world, a local dealer stocks models that range in price from $21,720 up to $36,580.
So nothing actually close to $42k, unless you're talkng MSRP (meaningless nowadays).
Which of these minivans have folding/collapsible side mirrors? I know this is not a prime feature but my appt. garage has a smaller door, and we have already hurt our car side mirrors twice.
Thanks in advance for response.
1= Looks the most expensive
7= Looks the cheapest
1st Honda Odyssey
2nd Hyundai Entourage
3rd Nissan Quest
Tie Toyota Sienna
Tie Kia Sedona
6th Dodge/Chrysler
7th GM Minivans
Situational awareness is key. Technology can help, sure, but nothing beats the simple rule of paying attention to your surroundings.
Tib_boy: why is the Sedona so far behind the Entourage in you rankings? They're nearly identical. The Hyundai adds a tiny bit of chrome. From a distance most people can't even tell them apart.
Personally, I like for the door tracks to be hidden at the bottom of the window line. The Ody adds unsightly body lines down the side, I believe the Koreans twins do as well. The Sienna, Caravan, and Quest hide them nicely.
For this reason I believe the back up sensors are a far superior safety feature to a rear view camera as it allows you to drive safely and still receive information form points you cant see. Just IMO.
I agree that backing up into a child would be my worse nightmare but I have never had an instance that I've been in this situation. I have been in the situation where I look back and didn't catch a car coming down the street and as I'm backing up I need to stop quickly - I don't believe these sensors will catch that.
What's "needed" in a auto/minivan (not in any specific order)- IMO - HID headlights from what I've read, although the projection headlights that both my Hyundais have are pretty awesome (I drive a Dodge minivan (company car) and the headlights aren't anywhere near as good); LED Lighting where ever possible - LED's don't burn out and seem to stand out more; safety systems, although the Entourage is very safe I'm sure improvements can be made to every vehicle; maybe front sensors to warn you when you are approaching a car too fast (Volvo has something like this) helps to pick up a problem in case you didn't realize and finally something like GM's ONSTAR for emergencies, most people do have cell phones but what happens if you can't get to it - it would be nice for someone to be watching out for us.
From real world experience we don't "study" the camera when backing up. My wife and I will both still look rearwards as we reverse and glance quickly to the screen to confirm nothing is below our sightlines. The sensors are good but do give a lot of "false positives" such as the edge of the garage opening.
The real place the camera rocks is in parking lots. A quick glance and you can see a few more feet to safely reverse when trying to squeeze out of a tight spot.
We don't really use the voice commands feature but I know a few owners of Acura MDX's that do use it a lot.
Both the Nav and camera would be cheaper 3rd party but the integration is very good and both are quite handy to have. If Honda charged a more reasonable $500-$1000 for this then I'm sure there would be less discussion on its merits.
One last point on the technology. It will be outdated as soon as you design it into a car. IMO if you have tech envy and drive a minivan I'd suggest a visit to a therapist!
Is it just me, or is this not basically redundant with the "Minivan Shopping" thread?
Neither seem to have enough participants to keep them active, wouldn't combining them be more productive to the readers (more info, yet not an overwhelming amount, in one place?)?
This one hasn't had a hit since last week! And the Minivan Shopping thread has been stagnant much longer.
Just one humble opinion, but I thought I'd ask and see what this was about.
(I sense a discussion merger in the future
(I wasn't trying to be difficult, just trying to figure out what the deal was).
I gotcha now.