Is There Room in the Luxury Market for Hyundai?

millwood0 · February 2010

"Seems Infiniti is mimicking that awful Hyundai styling, eh? "

or more accurately the Hyundai is mimicking the last generation BMW 5-series? Look at the side profile of the tail lights, the moderated banglebutt, etc. or the "door bump" to the american muscle cars (charger / camaro, etc.), to name a few.

until we start to produce flying cars, there are going to be many similarities among the brands and it is hard to invent something original and Hyundai, unlike the Japanese, is doing a fine job copying other manufacturers' styling successes.

unless, of course, they come up with something truly originally ugly, like the banglebutt.

backy · February 2010

So what do you call all those Genesis sedans, especially the 4.6s, running around on the streets? Are they figments of our imagination?

If Hyundai has not carved out room in the luxury market, if brand names reign supreme as some here insist... why would ANYONE buy a Genesis sedan? Why wouldn't they spend some more money to get a REAL luxury car, one with one of those "luxury" brand names?

If I start a discussion called, "Why Mercedes Benz, BMW, Lexus, and all other luxury brands are toast because of Hyundai"--does that make that assertion true?

the very existence of this discussion and your herculean efforts, in vain, to insist otherwise clearly shows that Hyundai has not "clearly carved out ROOM in the luxury market".

Your implication that because a discussion exists to discuss a topic, the only possible answer to the question posed by the topic is "NO" is ridiculous.

backy · February 2010

Yes, I agree that M looks really, really similar to the Equus--which was on the market before the M.

The last generation 5 Series has a totally different roofline, tailamps, front end, and side detaling (no "swoosh" character line as on the Equus, or the M for that matter).

fintail · February 2010

Yes, the Equus isn't derived from the old 5er - the Genesis takes that honor.

fintail · February 2010

Infiniti doesn't have a knack for classic timeless designs, itself. And yes, the new M is pretty homely, too.

But just look at those 5 foot wide light assemblies, the garish toothy grille...the hilarious hood ornament...it is good looking for people who think good architecture is found on 6000sq ft stapled-together face brick cardboard and plywood abodes...

fintail · February 2010

What percentage of volume is made up by the highline car? And well how are these things selling outside of the NA market?

houdini1 · February 2010

Lol, from your several comments about McMansions and 6,000 sq. ft cardboard houses, I assume that you live in a very small, modest (cheap) but tastefully decorated non luxury home.

backy · February 2010

Do you know how easy it is to change the front fascia on a car? Really easy. The Equus we see pictured was designed for the ROK market first and foremost. If too many buyers in other countries don't like the grille or large headlamps, they are easily changed. Although headlamps in general are pretty large these days--Hyundai doesn't have a monopoly on that.

snakeweasel · February 2010

The Equus we see pictured was designed for the ROK market first and foremost.

Actually that Equus is the one coming here to the US sometime this year (by the end of summer?) and is on display at the Chicago Auto Show.

millwood0 · February 2010

"So what do you call all those Genesis sedans, especially the 4.6s, running around on the streets? "

Genesis? otherwise known as cheap wannabe luxury sedans.

"Are they figments of our imagination? "

no. the success of those Genesis proved, beyond any doubt, that there is a substantial segment of the market that demands inexpensive knock-off "luxury" cars with lots of fancy feature of unproven functionality and questionable value.

"If Hyundai has not carved out room in the luxury market, if brand names reign supreme as some here insist... why would ANYONE buy a Genesis sedan? "

many possible reasons: they don't know better? they are cheap? they love fancy features over functionality? they are crazy? ...

"Why wouldn't they spend some more money to get a REAL luxury car, one with one of those "luxury" brand names? "

they didn't have the money? they are already stretched beyond their ability to buy that Hyundai and they couldn't have stretched any more?

"If I start a discussion called, "Why Mercedes Benz, BMW, Lexus, and all other luxury brands are toast because of Hyundai"--does that make that assertion true? "

no, other than that you can always find a sucker for anything.

"Your implication that because a discussion exists to discuss a topic, the only possible answer to the question posed by the topic is "NO" is ridiculous."

no. the existence of the discussion proves that Hyundai has not CLEARLY carved out a segment of the market. Otherwise, the discussion wouldn't have existed.

However, it is ridiculous to say that Hyundai has clearly carved out a segment in the market because it has sold a Genesis. Anyone can sell anything to a sucker, as long as you look hard enough. The fact that you have sold something doesn't make that something a luxury sedan, or indicate that you have carved out a segment in that market.

millwood0 · February 2010

"it is good looking for people who think good architecture is found on 6000sq ft stapled-together face brick cardboard and plywood abodes..."

it is looking for owners who want attentions to their cars.

Not that there is anything wrong with it but I prefer a vehicle that severely understates itself.

fintail · February 2010

Yes, I don't live in a mcmansion.

But really, just look at that thing. It's a styling nightmare. Just when we think BMW is reforming itself and ugly is on the way out...look what marches in. :shades:

Tacky, bland, and blingy...just doesn't say "luxury". Maybe the Kia Amanti stylists had a pet project.

fintail · February 2010

If it's easy (and yes, a new front clip should be easy), then why hasn't it been done?

And the rest of the car resembles a supersized Azera to me. Kind of a Honda steering wheel in there too. Blah...the Genesis is a lot more together.

Yes, other makers than H have fallen into the lazy styling trick of large light clusters somehow being exciting...doesn't mean it looks decent, though.

millwood0 · February 2010

"Tacky, bland, and blingy...just doesn't say "luxury"."

since we all agreed earlier that there is no common meaning to the word "luxury", tacky, bland and bingy might just be Hyundai's interpretation of "luxury".

and from the look here, that is exactly what some Hyundai owners are looking for in their luxury vehicles.

houdini1 · February 2010

Gosh, you made up your mind on very little evidence. You haven't even seen the car in person, sat in it, ridden in it, or driven it. You don't even know if that picture is the final product, yet you have made up your mind that this is one of the sorriest cars you have ever laid eyes on !!

Does that sound rational to you?

backy · February 2010

So I guess we should change the name of the topic to, "Is there room in the luxury market for Hyundai, for buyers that millwood0 doesn't consider to be suckers or crazy?"

Or just maybe... all those folks paying the big brand premium for luxury cars are the suckers and/or crazy. :P

As for the existence of this topic proving that Hyundai has CLEARLY not carved out a segment of the luxury market... consider this topic was created over a year before the first Genesis sedans came to the U.S. market. There was understandably a lot of uncertainty in mid-2007 as to whether Hyundai's entry into the luxury market would be a success. There was lots of conjecture and opinion over what would happen. And no one knew for sure back then how it would shake out.

But now it's 2010. We don't have to guess anymore. Tens of thousands of Genesis sedans have been sold in the US alone. The opinion of the automotive press on the Genesis has been overwhelmingly positive. (Maybe they are all suckers or crazy also!) Buyers like the cars also (look to the right--how many 9.7+ ratings do you see on Edmunds.com?) The Equus is on its way, despite those who don't like its hood ornament. If tens of thousands of buyers of cars, cars that automotive professionals agree are "luxury" cars, doesn't constitute a "segment" of the marketplace, I don't know what does.

millwood0 · February 2010

'So I guess we should change the name of the topic to, "Is there room in the luxury market for Hyundai, for buyers that millwood0 doesn't consider to be suckers or crazy?" '

no, as long as you understand that there are different shades of "luxury" or "room" in the discussion.

"Or just maybe... all those folks paying the big brand premium for luxury cars are the suckers and/or crazy. "

I know for sure that not "those folks paying the big brand premium for luxury cars are the suckers and/or crazy".

I also know for sure that some "those folks paying the big brand premium for luxury cars are the suckers and/or crazy."

does that help?

"But now it's 2010. We don't have to guess anymore."

isn't that the same as insisting that Hyundai has "clearly" carved out a segment of the market?

you haven't added any new information / argument to the same discussion.

Again, just because someone is selling something in a market doesn't mean that someone has "carved out a segment of the market".

"Tens of thousands of Genesis sedans have been sold in the US alone. "

Yugo sold far more cars in the US than Hyundai has sold the Genesis here. Wouldn't it be silly, retrospectively, for someone to proclaim that Yugo had carved out a ("luxury") segment of the market in 1990 because it had sold more than 100K of those "luxury" vehicles in the US?

for all intent and purposes, the Genesis may go down the same path.

"The opinion of the automotive press on the Genesis has been overwhelmingly positive."

so were those guys on Yugo. or the Aztek for that matter.

"(Maybe they are all suckers or crazy also!)"

some of them certainly are, but not all of them are.

"Buyers like the cars also (look to the right--how many 9.7+ ratings do you see on Edmunds.com?)"

too bad we didn't have edmunds.com back in the Yugo days but I am sure it would have done better.

"If tens of thousands of buyers of cars, cars that automotive professionals agree are "luxury" cars, doesn't constitute a "segment" of the marketplace, I don't know what does."

well, if you don't know about it and you have to rely on herd behavior, you should at least consider the risk of following the herd. Mr. Madoff was also highly considered by many highly respected upstanding citizens of our society and look what herd behaviors got his investors.

think for yourself. Always think for yourself.

backy · February 2010

you haven't added any new information / argument to the same discussion.

I did. You chose to ignore it. Since that is the way it's going to be, then rather than wade through more non sequiturs on Yugos, Bernie Madoff, etc., I'll just say.. bye! Have a great rest of the weekend.

P.S. Buying a car, or other product, because it has a certain brand label stamped on it is the epitome of "herd behavior."

smarty666 · February 2010

I agree with a lot of what you said millwood but while I like the Genesis, the simple fact is, and this is where I disagree with backy a little bit but that BMW, Lexus, MB, and Infiniti have been around a lot longer then Hyundai has and to be honest I didn't really care for Hyundai and didn't really pay much attention to them until I saw the Genesis on the road for the first time and then subsequently at the NY Auto Show!

when the Genesis first came out, on several occasions I mistakently thought it was a BMW-5 series, GS, and E-Class on several different occasions; while I like the Genesis's look, for someone, and even professional auto motive people to mistake it too, that means that Hyundai did a good job of copying several other luxury automakers in producing and designing the Genesis - now don't get me wrong, that is not necessarily a bad thing on Hyundai's part because like I said that got me to really look at the Genesis and say "holy shi$#, its a Hyundai, holy crap, I thought it was Bimmer!"

other people have nicked-picked my comparisons of the Avalon and Maxima but while I understand they are a different class of car then the Genesis they are equal in regards to prices on the V6 models and being the top sedan class for Toyota, Nissan, and Hyundai which directly compete with each other

its hard to say Hyundai competes directly with Lexus, MB, BMW, or Infiniti since they only have one luxury vehicle; despite whether you like the Genesis or not, you have to give credit to the facts that the Genesis has sold pretty well last year!

whether or not you agree the Genesis is a luxury sedan or not, I personally feel after seeing it and driving it that it is, Hyundai as a whole is not luxurious with any of its other models! Hyundai is a main stream auto division structured and on the same level as Toyota, Honda, and Nissan

no matter whether you like Hyundai or not, you have to admit that the Genesis really put Hyundai on the map, at least it did for me, because when you have a car that gets mistaken for a BMW, MB, Lexus, or Infiniti you know that is going to raise a few eyebrows that hadn't been raised before!!

millwood0 · February 2010

"you have to admit that the Genesis really put Hyundai on the map"

I agree with that completely. they have made nice gains in entering that market. no doubt about it at all.

My point is that their fate there is largely unknown at this point. I can honestly say that I have yet to say a Genesis in my neighborhood / town. None, zippo, nil. and I live in a neighborhood where mb/bmw/jaq are like a toyota or ford, in terms of popularity.

I would say that the (highly) unscientific confirmation of Hyundai having carved out a segment of the luxury market would be if I start to run into a Genesis maybe once or twice a week.

I would think that we are at least five years away from that, to be very aggressive (for Hyundai).

another point that the Hyundai advocates frequently fail to comprehend is that features aren't the same. I give you a couple examples: we got an Infiniti G37 and also a BMW 530. the G has 300+ horses vs. the BMW's 200, and a 7-speed transmission vs.t he BMW's 5-speed.

the BMW drives much better and off the line much faster than the Infiniti, in spite of the fact that number for number the BMW is an inferior car.

You don't have to respect the established brands but from time to time, they do have tricks and there are perfectly valid reasons for them to be at top of the market, while other "seemingly" superior cars / brands at the bottom.

millwood0 · February 2010

"P.S. Buying a car, or other product, because it has a certain brand label stamped on it is the epitome of "herd behavior."

true. so is the blind anti brand behavior. They are both superficial and reflect the lack of self confidence of their decision makers.

fintail · February 2010

Oh, I don't doubt it is very nice to ride in etc. Big boring souless cruiser...should give Lexus something to fear.

I never said that pic is the final product. I simply stated I think it looks atrocious, and I stand by that.

smarty666 · February 2010

unfortunately, I came to a similar opinion when test driving the Genesis, it was way to boring and mushy in its ride like the Lexus sedans are; I prefer something a little bit more sporty in regards to body style and ride so that its a little bit more enjoyable to drive in regards to semi- firm ride and good handling - Infiniti and BMW is much better in both these regards !!

iluvmysephia1 · February 2010

new Hyundai sedan. The i-flow.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/marty-blog/1042560_2010-geneva-motor-show-previe- - - - - w-hyundai-i-flow-concept

Complete with solar cells and designed at Hyundai's Russelsheim, Germany, Design Headquarters, this one will replace the Azera. A notable point in the article states that this new sedan will "create the headroom within the sedan lineup necessary to price the Genesis and Equus sufficiently into the luxury space to be competitive but still profitable."

Mabye it's just me but I think that Hyundai and Kia want to be No.1 in the world as vehicle manufacturers.

kingsalmon · February 2010

Dude... Millwood... aren't you like a Simpsons character or something? Or is that Millhouse? A friendly jab... nothing personal bro.

I just thought you had some flaws in your reasoning. First off, Yugo was not a luxury car by any stretch of the imagination and I don't think it ever intended to be one. By your reasoning, Hyundai sold many Excels... so I guess they already succeeded in the LUXURY market. Oh wait! We are only talking about LUXURY CARS???

The Yugo was a cheap car intended for people who couldn't afford luxury. Hence, the cheaper than more established brand's(American/Japanese auto) price. Hyundai is trying to provide luxury for a lesser price. Don't get me wrong! People who can only afford to spend $10,000 and are shopping for Yaris/Accent aren't going to cross shop a $30,000 Genesis Sedan. However, someone shopping a $50,000 LS or Infiniti M might take a look at the Genesis Sedan. If they're humble(smart) enough to give it a try, I'm sure they will come away pleasantly surprised. Still, I'm sure some may not buy it because of perception(mostly other people's) or pride. It doesn't matter! Fact is that enough people paid attention and purchased the Genesis to warrant its existence. So, yeah. I think the Genesis is doing rather well!

Believe it or not, I think the Genesis sedan looks like nothing else on the road. Judging by the initial pictures, I used to think it might look like a knock off of the Lexus LS or something. But dude! In the metal, the Genesis looks much better than that bland piece of luxury equipment! Hyundai's doing a good job with the Genesis Sedan in my opinion. The 'kling-on grill' is one of the key features of the car and it was risky but I think it paid off.

At the end of the day, buy what makes you happy Millhouse! If you can't face your spouse and friends because your worth is measured by what brand you drive, just buy a Yaris and call it luxury! However, if you don't mind spending less money on a quality car(with luxury features), just try out a Genesis and see how you like it! Easy as that. You don't have to call it luxury(if in your eyes) Hyundai will never qualify. Just enjoy the extra convenient features and call it a normal car. 'Cos at the end of the day, it's just a car.

P.S. You probably won't have unexpected random acceleration from the car... but I guess that's one of many surprising "luxuries" of buying Lexus products.

toye · February 2010

"Hyundai is 50 years off having legtimate lux chances. They might be able to get up into Lexus ES land. but not into REAL lux land".

Jul 03, 2007

fintail

snakeweasel · February 2010

My point is that their fate there is largely unknown at this point.

My guess is that the continuation of the Genesis, the introduction of the Genesis coup and the forth coming Equus makes a statement that their faith is pretty much known. Hyundai will be producing high end cars for some time to come.

I can honestly say that I have yet to say a Genesis in my neighborhood / town.

That begs the questions of what town you live in and are you actually looking. I am in the burbs of Chicago and I can say that I see a Genesis about as often as I see any particular model of MB, Lexus or BMW's. And that without the snob appeal that makes like BMW have.

fintail · February 2010

Yes, and the brand is still that far from being a legit lux maker. It's not exactly competing with E and 5er, not to mention the real players like 7 and S - and the Equus will not change that.

So does Hyundai pay you to scour message boards for three year old posts, or is it a personal OCD issue? When will you gift us with another awe-inspiring statement that reads like a press release rather than an actual opinion? There's really something funny going on here...I have never seen anyone so in love with an automaker.

fintail · February 2010

Interesting they have a facility in the same city as Opel. Well, they'd better hope they have some German input if they wish to succeed in anywhere but the NA market.

Crikey, those are huge rear lights. What the hell is it with that? Lazy design.

acdii · February 2010

What I see is people like to waste money on an expensive car more because it is a status symbol, I drive a BMW, and you drive a hyundai? Smart buyers would look at the Genesis, compare it against the higher priced cars, and think to themselves, hey that extra $10-20 grand could be better spent on something else.

Compare a Lexus RX350 to a Hyundai Veracruz. Both have the same features, basically the same vehicle, yet the VC is $10k less. It is a very refined car, equal to the RX350 in many ways. Why wouldn't a smart buyer go for it? They are more reliable than lexus now, rated #3 in reliability.

OTOH they really need to step up to the plate with their service department. I believe once they clear that hurdle, Hyundai has a clear shot at having a luxury car line.

BTW Hyundai resale is holding up pretty good too. I traded my Veracruz yesterday and got more for it than the payoff was, and I didn't put much down on it when I bought it. There was only 1 reason I got rid of it, it was a mistake that I made when I bought it, thinking I wouldn't need AWD where I live, but I was wrong. The one I had was FWD and didn't play well in the snow. Only reason I didn't replace it with another VC was because of current finance rates being too high, and going with a Ford Flex I was able to reduce my monthly payments yet still have a decent car that seats 6 comfortably. The Flex lists for more than a Hyundai VC AWD, but incentives and dealers wanting to sell them, I was able to get it for invoice, something I wasn't able to do with the Hyundai.

Yes I will miss the Hyundai, it was a nice car, very well appointed, great riding, and handling(except in wet slushy slippery snow), and was really reliable. It held up well the 2 years I had it, and looked as good inside and out as the day I brought it home.

toye · February 2010

One of Backy's replys gave me the idea about how long this blog has been up. So I just wanted to see how opinions have changed in the last 3 1/2 year about Hyundai jump into the luxury market. Give you credit you have been on this blog since day 2 and remember you wrote it.

Couple days ago I noted on this blog on what I saw at a local Hyundai lot. You tried to discredit me yet I back it up with an the internet site. Am I upset? No! But I'm quite amused that you are so passionate about Hyundai NOT making it in the luxury arena.

You do keep this blog interesting

!

iluvmysephia1 · February 2010

they think that the i-flow is a lazy design. Lazy design? Look at any new Mercedes-Benz or Rolls-Royce and I'll show you a lazy design. There's no stoppin' Hyundai and Kia now, baby.

Crikey, those are huge rear lights. What the hell is it with that? Lazy design.

fintail · February 2010

Please dissect every new MB design for me and show me where it is lazy. People tend to mimic MB for years after even a boring design hits the market. RR has never been a design innovator anyway.

Lexus can't even sell more than a handful of cars in Europe...why does anyone think high end H products will break this?

And those lights are terrible.

fintail · February 2010

Yes, and I have no problem standing by my statements. And for the record, it is not giving criticism to the product itself, rather than to the exaggerated position some give to it.

You "backed up" your claim with copied and pasted text, no site...and it still wasn't as optimistic as you claimed, with many older cars.

Are you paid by H? Are you or a close relative a dealer or H exec? Something doesn't add up...

iluvmysephia1 · February 2010

will morph to boring. I've never seen such dull and boring and cloddy designs ever except those from the Germans. And BMW is not the ultimate driving machine, either. Get over yourselves, BMW. Let me know if VW ever improves their horrible electrical gremlin problem, too, will ya?

The Germans are quickly being surpassed in the automotive world by the Japanese and the Koreans. Just da truth, nothing else.

bobad · February 2010

It is when you bring the expensive car in for service that you are treated well, and know you will have great service (albeit for a price), and the car repairs will be done promptly, timely and correctly, Hear that Hyundai!!!!!

What good are fancy service diggs if you never use it?

I bought an inexpensive Hyundai in 2006, and my dealer treats me like royalty. Sometimes I wish something would go wrong with my car so I could get free coffee and donuts, and schmooze with the Genesis salesmen. So get outta here with slamming Hyundai service. Yea, there may be a few bad eggs, but don't think for a moment that Hyundai is not capable of excellent service.

fintail · February 2010

When was the last time you drove a BMW? They have an image problem...but the product does drive quite nicely. The Japanese have long had a problem in that area.

BMW and MB still own the worldwide lux market, hands down. Outside of Japan and NA, the Asians have made nothing but a door ding.

toye · February 2010

Before the Genesis came out there were no late model BMW, MB, INFINT or LEX etc. on the used car lots of a Hyundai dealerships. There may have been older models but like you said they were shipped off to auction. It backs up the view that there is a flux of luxury owners trading in their late model automobiles for the new Genesis which didn't exist before. When the Equus comes out later this continue but with few LS460s, 5-7 Series, and E and S class. Again just an opinion!!!

houdini1 · February 2010

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black !! For all the time you spend posting I hope someone is paying you !!

iluvmysephia1 · February 2010

man, I know ya love the vintage German cars. I don't disrespect you for that. Everyone loves what they love. But, except for Audi and VW, the German designs are boring with a capital 'B'. I think that what is going on here is that I am currently driving a car that I want the most in all the whole wide world, a 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS.

I don't like luxury cars nor do I need luxury cars. fintail, you know more about luxury cars than I do, I'll admit that. I don't spend the time researching them because all they are is a big 'ole stretch 'a boredom to me.

But BMW seems like a high-headed outfit, I don't really like them, nor do I respect them. Of the Germans makes Audi is my favorite and VW would follow up after them.

I just think that you have some wild hair of jealousy over Hyundai and their luxo entry, for whatever reason. Ya gotta admit that both Hyundai and Kia (Kia now employs former Audi Chief Designer Peter Schreyer as their Chief Designer) are going great guns and their luxury entry the Genesis sedan is a good and competent luxury car. It just is. Hatred won't make it roll in to Lake Michigan and die.

bobad · February 2010

no, other than that you can always find a sucker for anything.

Yes,,, including those who drive expensive, unreliable European cars whose legend has long outlived them. The star and roundel were indeed pioneers of quality and luxury, but have long been surpassed by Asian makes. There are still people that haven't woken up to this reality. There are people that cling to their quirky, noisy old German cars with religious zeal. To each his own, but you can't help but feel a little sorry for them. They are missing out on so much from the Asian makes. My grand pappy had a saying for that: It's much better to eat fresh squirrel meat than stale beefsteak.

iluvmysephia1 · February 2010

right on, bro!

My grand pappy had a saying for that: It's much better to eat fresh squirrel meat than stale beefsteak.

I love it so very much when people can make automotive connections in thought. It's a magical part of internet communication that makes it worth the time and money.

toye · February 2010

Hey, Fintail and I are both guilty of posting alot!! lol!

bobad · February 2010

Gosh, you made up your mind on very little evidence. You haven't even seen the car in person, sat in it, ridden in it, or driven it. You don't even know if that picture is the final product, yet you have made up your mind that this is one of the sorriest cars you have ever laid eyes on !!

You forgot the most important things: 1 It's a Hyundai and 2, he owns a MB.

Give him a little slack, he feels threatened and like he paid too much for his used car.

millwood0 · February 2010

"have long been surpassed by Asian makes."

I got my first Lexus in 89, an Infiniti J30 in the early 1990s and now a G37. I can say from my personal experience that in terms of driving excitment, none of them touches the BMWs I have had.

I will also give you a long list of asian makes I have owned (multiple rx7, two mr2, one mista, one s2000, to name a few). and I also had my personal speed record in a NSX so that should give you some perspective.

and my most favorite car? a 1982 Datsun 280ZXT with the BW 5-speed.

bobad · February 2010

P.S. Buying a car, or other product, because it has a certain brand label stamped on it is the epitome of "herd behavior."

Our friend doubtless believes that since we are not impressed by the tri star or roundel, we must have a strong alleigance to the Hyundai badge. I bet truth be told, most Genesis owners feel loyalty to no badge.

fintail · February 2010

I would like to see any credible source that says the Equus, especially as it sits now, will compete in any market with a 7er or S, not to mention the lesser models.

You posted an anecdotal sighting of a few cars, sourced from locations unknown, sitting on a lot. My local Ford and Chrysler dealer always has a few late model highlines sitting around - does this mean people are trading them for Fusions and 300s? When my mom bought a Toyota last year, they had a loaded 3 year old SL on the lot - was it traded for a Solara?

The Genesis isn't a high enough volume seller for a "flux" of luxury owners to be trading in their preferred brands for the newbie. The Genesis is taking M/GS etc sales, not a lot of anything higher. AFAIK, 5er and E sales aren't tanking.

fintail · February 2010

I think pedestrian designs with headlights that appear to be leering or glaring are "boring", so I guess we have different tastes :P

If H could make something that actually competed with the big luxo players and challenge them on their highline models (S/7/A8 at the least), then I would be scared. I don't see that with the Equus...and although the Genesis by all accounts seems to be a fine vehicle, it's not at that level. I have no hatred for H...I'd have no problem driving one of their cars if I wanted something 'normal'...I am just skeptical of insane claims.

fintail · February 2010

Can you see me posting with any kind of pro-brand agenda? When I offer up those cold war style press releases, then you can point :P

backy · February 2010

Why should anyone bother to provide links to expert opinion on the Equus? Do a quick search on, e.g. "Equus 7 Series", and there's several sources that comment favorably on the Equus vs. the likes of the 7 Series. But all you'll need to say is, "Oh, those sources aren't credible. Sorry." I'm aware of the old saying, "Fool me once... etc.", so I am not going to go there. It's Valentine's Day, and I have better things to do right now.

But thanks for finally admitting that the Genesis is a direct competitor of the M and GS and is in fact taking sales away from them.

Is There Room in the Luxury Market for Hyundai?

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