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Is There Room in the Luxury Market for Hyundai?

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Comments

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    If H could build a subtle supercar like that Nissan, I can guarantee it wouldn't have the same issues as many give the Genesis. It's not the same as competing with perceived luxury. Same for the 100K Chevy.

    Pretension remains a huge factor...the traditional brands would be slumping if not. I think some journalists like to write about new things just for the sake of newness.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited July 2010
    IMO nobody can agree on the definition of this market.

    So if you or no one else can define this market... how can you and some others here be so sure Hyundai doesn't compete in said market?

    Note I didn't say that the Genesis doesn't compete with the E Class and 5 Series. What I said was, I think the Genesis' main targets are the J3's luxury brands. But I also said they are not the only targets. I have no problem with anyone stating facts about car sales, e.g. that the E and 5 are doing well sales-wise. It's the confusion about the ability for a competitor to take away sales from a car that has positive sales growth that I was trying to clear up. No ire involved.

    There's links to various tour groups to Ulsan if you're interested. Found a really interesting one about the mayors of Bergen and Stavanger visiting the Hyundai shipyards in Ulsan. Looks like even Europeans get to the ROK to check out Hyundai. :) Some the ships had really huge hood ornaments on the prows, though. :P
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited July 2010
    So you think the GT-R is pretty great, eh? So did MT. They named it their 2008 COTY. Nissan selling an $80k supercar next to a $10k Versa (to provide some uplift to the brand, perhaps?) is an interesting comparo to Hyundai selling $10k Accents next to $40k Genesis sedans, and soon the $50k+ Equus. Maybe Hyundai figures, it's working for Nissan, let's give it a go? Those who have said here that Hyundai should follow the lead of the J3 should agree with that strategy.

    BTW, the Genesis was runner-up for the 2008 MT COTY--at half the price. ;)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Anyone can define it, but few can agree. I don't see the Genesis competing in the same segment as the E and 5er.

    I just haven't seen any evidence that the Genesis has robbed the big name competition of sales or market share...but I do believe it has severely impacted the Japanese competitors to the big names both ways.

    Have the Chinese made field trips to sample the tuned treats of the maker in Ulsan? No doubt some Norwegians have an interest in shipping - it's an important business there...but I doubt many German auto enthusiasts are lining up at the car factory doors in the same city.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    GT-R is an interesting car, yes. Nissan also has a ~50 year history at playing around with sporty cars, and the GT-R has a long heritage itself. It's also not a luxury car, which assumes a different marketing strategy than a sports car that will make 25 year olds live in an efficiency apartment in order to make the payments. Marketing the GT-R is not the same as marketing something with dreams of going toe to toe with the 5ers and Es of the world...not to mention the 7ers and Ss. Nissan also made a distinct division for its luxury cars.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    thought this thread was about supposed luxury cars, what are (or are not) luxury brands and what is or is not the luxury market. :confuse:
    You are #1 talking about high performance sports cars - not luxury cars, and #2 mistakenly also equating high price with luxury - something not always the case.
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    edited July 2010
    I've said it before, and I'll say it again - H has one (soon to be two) luxury models, but it is not, nor will it ever be, a luxury brand.

    Never is a long time.

    In light of what Toyota did, I don't rule out that Hyundai will someday be accepted as a luxury brand. The Equus is coming after Lexus very hard.
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    edited July 2010
    Well the RL is going to be getting axed so maybe that will help Genesis sales down the road ;) :P! ;) :P

    http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/16/report-honda-to-kill-off-acura-rl-legend-glob- - ally-discontinue/
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    edited July 2010
    Never is a long time.

    Agreed.

    In light of what Toyota did, I don't rule out that Hyundai will someday be accepted as a luxury brand. The Equus is coming after Lexus very hard.

    Nope, don't agree. Toyota created a brand new brand (Lexus) that was, from the get to, meant to compete with MB, BMW, Jaguar, etc.Unless and until H does the same thing - different brand name, separate dealership body - I believe that H will remain a mainstream brand with a couple of luxury offerings.

    By no means am I suggesting that the Genesis and Equus will fail - as I noted in a previous post, I'm sure there are going to be some number of folks who have champagne tastes but a beer budget, and will choose the Equus over the S-class or 7-series strictly as a value proposition. This is not a bad thing - I suspect the market is large enough to accommodate all manufacturers. I doubt that the Genesis / Equus will put a huge dent into the MB / BMW business.

    Note - for those of you who think I am bashing H - my folks own a Hyundai - a 2003 Sonata GLS V6. They bought it instead of the Camry LE they were going to get. Why? Better value for money was the primary reason. H has done a fantastic job of turning their reputation around in the past 10 years or so.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I just haven't seen any evidence that the Genesis has robbed the big name competition of sales or market share...but I do believe it has severely impacted the Japanese competitors to the big names both ways.

    Wait a minute... are you saying the only "big names" in the luxury car market are non-Asian? So Lexus and Infiniti don't qualify, for instance? If so, i find that quite a myopic view of the luxury car market, especially the market in the US.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited July 2010
    Marketing the GT-R is not the same as marketing something with dreams of going toe to toe with the 5ers and Es of the world...not to mention the 7ers and Ss.

    Correct, it's not. But it does mean selling/marketing an $80k+ car alongside ordinary cars. If Nissan can do that, why not Hyundai--but with not nearly as big a price differential? In each case, the high-end car(s) help elevate the brand. For Nissan, the GT-R tauts the sportiness that Nissan wants people to think exists in its offerings. For Hyundai, it's not sportiness (although the coupe could help there), but quality and luxury. Different goals, but a similar approach.

    Nissan did make a distinct division for luxury cars, albeit they are selling only one luxury car today through that special and expensive channel. Was it worth the effort and money? I wonder...
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Yes indeed I am. To be a big name (IMO) you have to dominate markets on a global basis. Some do, some don't. Some are only marginal-at-best players outside of NA.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    You are #1 talking about high performance sports cars - not luxury cars, and #2 mistakenly also equating high price with luxury - something not always the case.

    I am making a comparison between Nissan's strategy, which is to sell an $80k+ car alongside lesser cars, and Hyundai's strategy, which is to sell a $40k+ car and soon a $50k+ car alongside lesser cars. I think it's on the topic of this thread, since Hyundai has been blasted by some here for their strategy re selling their high-priced cars alongside Accents and Elantras.

    I am glad though that you agree a luxury car doesn't have to have a high price--that is exactly what Hyundai is trying to get across to car buyers.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Selling luxury cars is different than selling sports cars. Chevy has never had a problem with selling Corvettes alongside more pedestrian offerings costing a fraction of the price, on the same floor. If Chevy had a line of 50-100K sedans, do you think they'd sell?

    IMO, Nissan was going after the sporty image long before this GT-R came to our shores. Nissan has been making sports cars for some time longer than I've been alive.

    Toyota also has sold luxury cars through a special and expensive channel, and has markedly influenced at least the NA market....very well worth it for them.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    To be a big name (IMO) you have to dominate markets on a global basis.

    To dominate markets on a global basis, you need to dominate the largest markets. Your "big names" don't even dominate the largest luxury car market: the US. Lexus has outsold both MB and BMW through June. Where is the domination over the Japanese luxury marques? And on a global basis, Toyota dominates MB and BMW and every other "big name" in the automotive market. MB and BMW aren't even in the top ten, worldwide.

    But now I understand your attitude towards Hyundai.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    If Chevy had a line of 50-100K sedans, do you think they'd sell?

    No, because there is too high a price differential (see: Phaeton). And if they came out with, say, a $40k sedan that was worthy of that price, they would be cannibalizing Cadillac sales, so that is a no-op strategy for GM.

    Hyundai, however, has no such internal competition.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    edited July 2010
    The big names do dominate the largest markets. The own the EU, are drooled over in China, and also the higher ends of the NA high end market, where the others can't even play.

    How many of those Lexus sales were RX/IS and not actual "luxury" models?

    MB and BMW are easily the worldwide highline leaders, hands down. This is not about total sales, it is about the upper end of the market. Lexus is barely a blip on the radar in the global lux game, and Infiniti is that much smaller again. Everyone wants to emulate those Germans.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Cannibalizing Caddy isn't the only reason for it. The lux buyer isn't going to pay 100K for a Chevy sedan, the badge doesn't work. Just as even though Nissan can sell an 80K sports car, it's not going to be so lucky with an 80K sedan...heck, it couldn't even make a go of the old Q with a fancy name.
  • sooththetruthsooththetruth Member Posts: 40
    edited July 2010
    Who is claiming those Genesis sales would have been E or 5er sales,

    Just one example, me. I chose the V6 Genesis over the 5 Series BMW mostly because the 5 series back seat is not reasonably large enough.

    My perception of the value of the Genesis was increased further by the low cost, low maintenance cost into the future, and my preference for the beauty of the interior.

    Did I notice the difference in the driving experience? Well, I did, but did not deem it worth the money.

    I had all but purchased a used 5 series when I went to look at the Genesis.

    I would have paid more for the BMW if the back seat were adequate for my needs, and if I felt the BMW would be reliable, and if there had been a dealership willing to pick up the car for maintenance, since I live 70 miles from the nearest one.\\

    However, Hyundai, because they have no separate Genesis showroom, had a dealership on my way to work.

    I have already had a VW Phaeton, requiring maintenance 70 miles away. In this instance, the LACK of a luxury marque dealership probably earned Hyundai the sale.

    Convenience mattered to me.
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    Nope, don't agree. Toyota created a brand new brand (Lexus) that was

    Lexus is just a paper company, and I refuse to play their game and recognize it. If Lexus has a widespread dangerous defect that's covered up, Mr. Toyoda is paraded before the Congress, not Mr. Lexus. :blush:
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    edited July 2010
    Lexus is barely a blip on the radar in the global lux game, and Infiniti is that much smaller again. Everyone wants to emulate those Germans.

    Do you think that's about Lexus quality, buyer perception, or serious disadvantages imposed on non-EU car makers? I haven't researched it, but I'll bet taxes and red tape on Japanese products are outrageous. Level the playing field, and I bet Lexus sales skyrocket.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    You're a conquest from a used 5er to a new Genesis...I hope it works out for you. I am sure it will be cheaper to own and run. If I had to drive 70 miles for service, that would be a deal breaker too. I see the Genesis is somewhat of a better looking version of the E60 5er, a similar design with some of the Bangle idiocy removed, and I agree the E60 interior is kind of hard on the eyes - weird swoops and funny design.

    Someone bought a Phaeton? ;)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    edited July 2010
    Please detail me the handicaps put on non-EU luxury cars in that market - other than those imposed by the maker. I am not aware of any. If one is going to pine about a "level playing field" and imply something dirty is going on, they need to provide some details. The EU is an open market, but it is up to the maker to develop and sell the appropriate products. The Asians do fairly well in the lower end there - the lower (i-series) Hyundais are even decently regarded. But as the cars get bigger, the interest collapses. French cars tend to suffer a similar fate. Big, bland, and no bargain - that's the problem with Lexus there.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited July 2010
    So the European "big names" own the EU... big deal. That should be no surprise that they own their home market. The Japanese and Koreans own their home turfs also. But your "big names" don't own the largest luxury market (US), they are an afterthought in one of the world's other large markets (Japan), and they are a drop in the bucket in world's largest car market, China (despite all that "drooling" you claim, which apparently isn't accompanied by much buying). So in fact these "big names" do NOT "dominate the largest markets." They only dominate their home market.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    edited July 2010
    The big names dominate the EU (a larger market than the US), and the 70K+ regions of the NA market as well. An afterthought in Japan? In the upper end of the market? Really? The same for China, and pretty much everywhere else in the world...get to a certain price point, and the vehicles tend to come from a specific region.

    So, in fact, the big names do dominate their segments of the largest markets.

    No matter, this evolved from Lexus being unable to crack the European highline market...I can't see why H would be able to do otherwise, trying to sell the Grandeur for lower E/5er money doesn't point to competent planning.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Is this $70k some magic number? Is that where the luxury market begins? Really? That excludes a LOT of cars that are generally considered luxury cars--the 5 Series and E Class, for example.

    You didn't talk about $70k thresholds and "upper end of the market" before--why now? Because you realized that the European automakers do not in fact dominate any market outside their home market, when the market is viewed generally and not through a very small lens?

    Do you happen to have handy the actual sales numbers for your "big names" in countries like China and Japan, to substantiate your claim that the big names dominate those markets?

    IMO 20,000 cars per year is "a crack", but I know it won't be enough for you, nor will the fact that Toyota outsells the 2 big home teams (MB and BMW) in Europe. I'll bet Hyundai would gladly take 20,000 luxury car sales in Europe... for a start.
  • j2jj2j Member Posts: 147
    edited July 2010
    "Wow, a "discount luxury car." Sam Walton would be proud! I guess that's like buying a knockoff Chanel dress at Ross. How prestigious!'

    ******

    Uhh, the LS400 w/ an original MSRP of $35K was more of a "discount luxury car" than the Genesis sedan - while both are/were closer in price to the C Class and 3 Series, the LS400 was a "full-size" luxury sedan, as opposed to the Genesis, which is "mid-size."

    And that analogy is far from accurate.
  • j2jj2j Member Posts: 147
    "I haven't seen those numbers, sorry. I also do have to wonder why H won't release coupe sales as their own. Just as I wonder who is being the victim of a "conquest" when this supposed German-fighter isn't hurting sales of said competition."

    *******

    The Genesis sedan may not be taking a lot of sales away from the Germans (altho, there are a decent no. of former BMW owners in the Genesis forum), but ever since the Genesis sedan was launched, the sales figures for the Lexus GS and Infiniti M have declined (w/ the new M, Infiniti saw a bump, but after the 1st month, even the new M is seeing a sales decline).

    Coincidence? Maybe.

    It's also quite possible that the declining sales of the GS and M are merely coincidental w/ the increasing sales of the Genesis.
  • j2jj2j Member Posts: 147
    " A $20k Korean sedan is going to be about the last thing that she wants to be seen in - the old BMW would have been fine - or get her what seemingly every teenager (male or female) wants, the 6000 lb. big arss pick up truck/SUV - sounds like he can afford to spoil her."

    **********

    Hardly (gee, is it possible to exaggerate even more?).

    Young people today don't see Hyundai the same way as older people (well, some of them, anyway) who can't quite comprehend that things change.

    The Sonata would be no worse than the Camcord (might even be better since the Camcord is seen as being "beige") and is better than the smaller Corolla or Civic and the even smaller Yaris.

    As for giving a teen an old BMW for a 1st car - aside from all the maintenance issues, an old car (whether it is a BMW or other) wouldn't be as safe since it doesn't have all the latest safety gadgets, much less having advanced structural integrity (via both engineering and use of high-tensile steel).

    And getting a rookie driver a large SUV or truck isn't exactly the smartest thing either.
  • j2jj2j Member Posts: 147
    "I understand your point, but disagree. I think it's wise to pick a number you are willing to spend on a car. Then you pick the class of car that fits your needs. Then you compare cars to determine what you get for your money. That's what makes the Genesis so appealing.'

    ****

    Well, in that case, the LS400 should be compared to the entry-level German models, the C Class, 5 Series and A4 - since that's where it was closest to in price.

    Even now - the offerings by Lexus, Infiniti and Acura still undercut their German competitors by quite a bit.
  • j2jj2j Member Posts: 147
    "FYI - Toyota/Nissan and the like both make some fine relatively luxurious vehicles but DO NOT sell in the luxury market IN THIS COUNTRY and under those particuilar brands. Hyundai is in the same position, and never will sell in the luxury market with that particular brand. Simply producing what could be defined as a luxury car does not necessarily mean that particular mfgr can have any impact in the 'luxury market'.
    While I'm sure that there are many Gen buyers who have convinced themselves that they have bought a luxury car. They are, unfortunately, fooling themselves only because such an evaluation is much more subjective than that and has little if anything to do with the car itself."


    ******

    You (as usual), contradict yourself a no. of times.

    You state that the evaluation is "much more subjective" - then in the same sentence, totally dismiss what Genesis owners actually think (i.e. - subjective).

    Once again, the most luxurious model that Toyota/Lexus has is a Toyota (and not a Lexus) - the Century.

    And all Infinitis and Acuras are sold as Nissans and Hondas in Japan (just as it was for Lexus until a few years ago).

    Anyway, this is all rather academic since Hyundai is planning to sell the 2nd gen Genesis sedan (as well as a no. of other models) under a new luxury nameplate - but it is rather ludicrous to think that the Genesis changes from a non-luxury sedan to a luxury sedan simply b/c of a change in nameplate (by this criteria, a person owning a Nissan Cima or Toyota Celsior doesn't own a luxury sedan even tho they are pretty much identical to the Infiniti Q and Lexus LS).

    While Hyundai isn't a luxury nameplate, that doesn't mean that they can't have luxury models (just as not every model that Mercedes or BMW offers qualifies as a luxury vehicle).
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    The decline of the M and GS are linked to Genesis sales volumes, as well as people moving up a little. Surely some people did trade from the more upmarket makes - especially BMW as the Genesis resembles one...but I see nothing to believe that the higher line moves are as significant as others.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    The Genesis is a pretty big "mid size" car, I wonder about its dimensions compared to the original LS (which no doubt was sold at a loss just to get brand footing). the 35K LS was also an anomaly - that's for a stripped cloth interior car, of which very few were made.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The current LS (460) starts at about $65k, thus is no longer price-competitive with the likes of the C Class, 3 Series (you meant 3, not 5, yes?), and A4. But since the LS is a couple of classes above those cars (more in S Class and 7 Series territory), it's not realistic for the prices to be comparable.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    70K is no more a magic number than 5er or E being an imaginary floor. The real "big boys" of the game are the S/7/A8/LS...and we know who rules that roost on a global basis.

    You made the initial claim about Japan, how about you show where your numbers come from, and then I will counter. The onus is on you, fanboy. European makers dominate countless luxury markets away from the home market - and luxury markets are what is relevant here.

    This discussion was never about total brand sales, but luxury cars...so trying to distract with total sales of Toyota is a weak ploy. How do the Toyota luxury cars fare on the continent? We all know the answer, even if we don't want to admit it.

    Hyundai isn't going to get 20000 lux sales in Europe...I see no evidence that H is even going to sell their higher products in Europe at all - especially when the company has admitted the Equus won't be sold in Europe.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Yes, the reason the Genesis seems like a big mid-sized car is because it isn't a mid-sized car. It's a large car, in the same EPA size class as the S Class, 7 Series and A8.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    "Big boys" in size, yes, but since when does domination of a market, as you have asserted, have to do with the size of the cars? Most of MB's, BMW's, Audi's, and Lexus' sales come from their lower-end cars, e.g. C and E Class, 3 and 5 Series, A4 and A6, and ES. Yet a few posts ago you tried to exclude all of these cars from the discussion on market domination. :confuse:

    Actually, you made the initial claim re the German automakers ruling the world's luxury market, but I haven't seen any figures to back that up yet. I agree they dominate their home market, the EU. So let's see your figures proving that the German automakers rule the luxury market on a worldwide basis, e.g. some other major market besides the EU--how about the US, China, or Japan? And without any artificial price barriers, e.g. $70k.

    Hyundai isn't going to get 20000 lux sales in Europe...


    Never is a long time. Let's see what happens. Also, I think you might be confusing reports that Hyundai won't offer the Genesis sedan in Europe at this time, for the Equus. I can't find any official statement from Hyundai that they won't offer the Equus in Europe. Can you please post a link to that report for us? I did find this report from C/D in early 2009 that quotes a Hyundai spokesman as saying the Equus will come to Europe "early in the next decade":

    http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/09q1/2010_hyundai_equus-auto_shows

    Do you think it was a coincidence that the latest Equus was unveiled in Geneva? I don't.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Dreams? No. But as someone who has been watching Hyundai closely for ten years, I get the impression they don't have the word "can't" in their vocabulary. So I think it will be fun to see how this all shakes out over the next few years.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Don't get me wrong...I applaud how Hyundai has improved so much in almost no time, and I absolutely love how they are accelerating the growth of engine technology. I just can't say I think the sky is the limit. Sooner or later the know how is going to run out...and I think the highlines might be what do it. I have to repeat my babble about the 40000 Euro Grandeur...doesn't say much for an understanding of the market.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The Grandeur is of course a five-year-old model. And the price is closer to 32k Euros, not 40k.

    http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/car-reviews/car-and-driving/hyundai-grandeur-1005925.ht- ml

    Still, for a 5-year-old car that was designed primarily for the US market, it seems to acquit itself pretty well in the review, except for the depreciation bug-a-boo. And fuel economy of course. It's not a fuel-sipper.

    I don't think the Grandeur is a good example of the know-how running out for Hyundai's high-end models--it's an older design, and not even a luxury car, but a upscale FWD sedan ala Avalon and Maxima. The know-how is going into the new powertrains, the new car models--not the five-year-old Grandeur. With the Grandeur, Hyundai tried to grab a few sales in a low-cost manner by selling "what's on the truck." Since you have complained about Hyundai not attacking the European market immediately with the Genesis and Equus, I am a bit surprised you would chide them for trying to sell a few Grandeurs in Europe while they work on the next-gen car.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    edited July 2010
    That's the UK...and I'm not a follower of Yahoo autos...get a Car or Top Gear opinion of that car...the former said "you'd have to be special to buy one" in the last issue I read, and in one of the two there was a note about sales volume in the UK being something like 10 units. When you say a few units, you must mean literally three. I saw zero of these things when I was last there (although I did see a Kia Opirus, being driven as a fleet car by a Kia dealer in Zurich). I also saw exactly one single new style LS in over 2000 miles of driving. Doesn't bode well.

    LPG model is 43000 Euro and you can load it up to 46000 Euro...of course, as I have never seen any evidence of one being bought and have never seen a pic of one in European traffic, maybe it's just an April Fool's joke that was never removed :shades:

    It's not really a lux car indeed...but H is pricing it in lowline E and 5er territory. Are they going to try to sell an 80000 Euro Equus there?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Maybe they were responding to the criticism that their cars are priced too low to be considered luxury cars. :P

    Or maybe it's all a plot... price the Grandeur high, with no expectation of selling more of a handful. Then when the Equus comes at $50k+ USD, it won't seem very expensive. Yeah, that must be it! :)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    That could be it...offer the Genesis at the same price, and it's a screaming bargain in comparison. Might piss off the 3 people who bought a Grandeur. Although still at E/5er price level...it won't be an easy sell.
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    edited July 2010
    But as someone who has been watching Hyundai closely for ten years, I get the impression they don't have the word "can't" in their vocabulary.

    I'm not a car fanatic, including Hyundai. I am a business fanatic, and I love Hyundai's bold strokes. They're already a worthy competitor, and worrying the J3. I want a front row seat to watch them go for the jugular, taking advantage of poor economy, and J3 mistakes and timidity.
  • tenpin288tenpin288 Member Posts: 804
    For your reading pleasure...

    MT First Drive
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    "With all the grace and evocative styling of a current Elantra, and ques aplenty from chinese cars. "

    Wow...it's almost like I made that comment :shades:

    Doesn't Samsung have some kind of tablet device that could have been used insted of the ipad? Keep it all Korean, etc.

    I am sure it will be nice for the Lexus enthusiast...but I can't see why I'd choose it over a 3 year old S-class + enough to buy a good 4 year warranty and enough for routine maintenance.
  • toyetoye Member Posts: 351
    Yes I agree with you on that point. When and if this happens then one might say that Hyundai had achieved its goal in becoming one of the best automobile companies in the world.

    Are they there yet? No of course not but they are on the right track...do I dare say more than any other car company.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    and for as wonderfully cheap that car may be, and for as comparable as it may be to the likes of those 7s/LSs/Ss/A8s/XJs or whatever, it will never ever be considered in the same league as those cars. Except possibly by those that dropped $60 large on one?
  • tenpin288tenpin288 Member Posts: 804
    One thing I learned a long time ago is "never say never"! It may not make it or it might make it but to say "never" paints you into a corner that you might have to try to escape from in the future. just my .02. ;)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    It appears the editors of MT agree with you, i.e. the Equus will never be considered in the same league as the European and Japanese luxury cars:

    So for making owners of European and Japanese luxury sedans feel foolish, the 5.0-liter Equus is the ultimate embarrassment tool.


    In other words, the Equus is not in the same league as European and Japanese luxury cars. Instead, it is so good it will make owners of those other brands feel foolish. (At least, when the 5.0 V8 is available next year.)
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