Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Is There Room in the Luxury Market for Hyundai?

1…125126128130131…142

Comments

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited July 2010
    Wow...it's almost like I made that comment

    Yes, with the spelling and capitalization errors and all. :P

    Did you notice, on the photos of this US-spec Equus--no hood ornament. Satisfied that its gone now?

    Get a 3-year old S Class for the price of an Equus, including 4-year bumper-to-bumper warranty and all maintenance? Boy, those S Classes depreciate fast, don't they? ;)

    Re the iPad--you're just upset MB didn't think of it first. :)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    edited July 2010
    Spelling errors, from me? Surely you jest ;)

    Car tested wasn't even on US soil...who knows what version of that odd looking thing we will see. Hopefully not many either way...it's just not great design. Maybe from another unnamed "European design house"...right.

    And yes the S does depreciate harshly, as do all highline cars in raw dollar terms. This makes them a very appealing used buy, especially as the complex cars aren't as problematic as in the past. CR even lists the W221 as "recommended". I can get a nice 07 S550 for under 50K now. I'd buy it before the Equus based on looks alone, and that S is far from a supermodel.

    Ipad thing seems like a gimmick to distract the lame American consumer...we will see how many makers mimic it, or how many actually still work or are with the cars after 5 years.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited July 2010
    The article was clear the car was a US-spec car. But since you say we don't know what the final US version will look like, why the comments re what it looks like? :confuse:

    Used cars can be really good buys, but some people prefer new. Especially a new car that costs about the same as a 3-year-old used car and can smoke it besides. :)

    The iPad thing is obviously a gimmick to distract lame American consumers, since Hyundai came up with it. Had MB or BMW come up with the idea, it would have been the World's Greatest Idea. ;) How many owner's manuals are still with the car after 5 years? :sick:
  • peter_peter_ Member Posts: 2
    edited July 2010
    I think the Luxury Car market is dominated by European car makers. The brand such as Ferrari, Lamborghini, BMW, Porsche etc. There will be excitement if the Hyundai is also eager to enter in this market. There will be space for Hyundai if they reduced the prices of the Luxury Cars and making some extraordinary super cars.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Comparing an '07 S-Class to an Equus is like comparing Heidi Klum to Susan Boyle. Really? Can I trust a newer S-Class not to doom me to financial purgatory? I'm doing extremely well with my '07 Cadillac DTS. I've experienced no problems whatsoever.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Articles can say what they want. I can comment about what it looks like because of the garishness of the KDM version and the inconsistent styling merits of the brand in general.

    People can prefer new all they want, its their money. In what ways does the Equus "smoke" the late model competition other than in length of warranty?

    The rented new style 7-series I had in Germany last year featured the owners manual built into the ICE - you could call it up on the nav screen. I bet the failure rate of that feature will be less than the failure and loss rates of those ipads. I've also never bought a car without the owners manual and other documents, highline cars generally keep at least a good part of their paperwork. A gadget prone to theft/kids/damage, however...maybe not.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    edited July 2010
    I'd trust a W221 tenfold over a W220 (especially an early model) - the car has received very good ratings and does not seem to have the achilles heel areas of the old model. I've seen nice looking used ones for sale locally with asking prices well under 50K now...seems like a fair deal, although I'd rather the CL get to that price point. Similarly aged 7ers can be had for even less.

    I wouldn't expect problems from a DTS either, the technology is all proven and nothing is really new or revolutionary.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited July 2010
    In what ways does the Equus "smoke" the late model competition other than in length of warranty?

    Nice try to shift away from the situation we were discussing. You posted about buying a 3-year-old S Class instead of an Equus. I said one advantage to the Equus is it would smoke that 3-year-old car. You're right, the Equus' warranty certainly smokes that of the S Class, especially a used one. The horsepower of the Equus with the DI V8 also smokes the S550 (the model that would be in the same price range as the Equus) by 47 horses. That plus the 8AT (only 7AT on the S550, btw) should allow the Equus to smoke the S Class in other ways.

    It would be hard to bring that 7 Series owner's manual (in the nav system) into your home for browsing in the comfort of your easy chair, wouldn't it? Also, say you want to have the manual handy while you do something outside the car--again, pretty hard to bring that nav screen with you. What is the relative failure rate of the 7 Series system and the iPad, do you have any stats on that?

    Do you suppose the Equus owner will tend to keep his/her car locked, and the iPad tucked away in the glove box? If not, they deserve to have it stolen or messed with!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    edited July 2010
    No trying at all. You stated the Equus would "smoke" the competion, now the onus is on you and only you to detail this claim. In which specific ways will the Equus "smoke" this competition? To "smoke" implies something pretty exciting.

    2007 S550 has power numbers of 382/391. Equus is 385/333 per the latest Automobile test I read, and earlier numbers are lower. I can't find any data showing the Equus having greater performance, everything I find shows the old S having markedly faster acceleration. Don't give me stories of future powertrains of which concrete offering details don't even exist yet. I can also get that 3 year old S in AWD for a relatively small premium.

    I can get BMW owners manuals directly from the BMW USA website. So I can sit back in a chair and browse on my more practical and logical netbook or laptop that I own anyway and read away. The cars also come with a hardcopy book along with the i-drive and online versions. Logic has it that a portable device (which seems to have a few issues of its own no matter where it is stored) prone to theft and meddling will be a greater risk than a built in computer used for just a few tasks. I doubt any Equus owner who doesn't already own an ipad will always let it sit collecting dust in the car. Again, logic.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited July 2010
    You stated the Equus would "smoke" the competion, ...

    That is not what I said. I was more specific, as was our thread of discussion. What I said was:

    Used cars can be really good buys, but some people prefer new. Especially a new car that costs about the same as a 3-year-old used car and can smoke it besides.

    And it was clear from our thread of discussion I was talking of the Equus 5.0 DI V8 that was discussed in the MT article--that's the one with 429 hp. Coming next year. So you can get a 2008 S550 instead, vs. a 2007. ;) InsideLine says that car does 0-60 in 6.1 seconds. MT's estimate for the Equus 5.0 DI is 5.5 seconds--definitely in the "smoking allowed" section.

    Do you know for a fact you cannot get or will not be able to get an Equus owners manual from the Hyundai web site? Has Hyundai said the only way the Equus' manual will be available is via iPad? I must have missed that.

    Yes, I think you are upset because Hyundai thought of using the iPad for this purpose first. Plus that iPad can be used for other things. If you were offered a free iPad, would you turn it down?
  • toyetoye Member Posts: 351
    Fintail will never be offered a free iPad as he will never, and I do mean NEVER will buy an Equus or Genesis for that matter. lol :shades: :shades: :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Free is about the price point where I'd be attracted to an ipad...I haven't sampled that Kool-Aid yet ;)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    OK then, try me, I'm apparently gullible...in what exact ways can this new car that costs the same as a 3 year old (far higher line) car "smoke it"?

    This big engined Equus doesn't even exist yet. The same MT you use puts that S550 at 5.6....funny....

    I don't care whether or not another manual is available for that delicious clump of weird inelegant KDM styling, it's irrelevant...the context was my not so humble opinion of the ipad being a ploy to attract lame American consumers, and I will stand by that. I would hope that H does indeed put the manuals online and offer them in print form as well, especially on the flagship vehicle. So, do they?

    Upset? I don't think the other makers are that desperate for attention...if they wanted to mimic this scheme, they'd be doing it now...a ~$600 unit isn't going to kill margins. Who wouldn't take the free gadget? But I wouldn't buy a questionable looking expensive car to get one for "free".
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited July 2010
    I got a free TV with my minivan in '99. It got a lot of good press at the time, since it was a rather unusual "cool" add-on. Never used it...of course, now "rear entertainment systems" are as common as power windows.

    The iPad announcement was pretty brilliant marketing by Hyundai and they came out with the promo just when all the excitement over the iPad release happened.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I got a free leather jacket with our '99 minivan. Got good use out of it... until I got a better free leather jacket a few years later from the company I worked for. Still use that one. Of course, I didn't lease the van because of the free leather jacket. But I didn't mind it.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited July 2010
    So you are agreeing that, at least according to MT, the Equus 5.0 DI will be quicker than the S550 MT tested--which cost only about $50k more than the Equus will. (puff, puff) Thus you could get an Equus, a Genesis 3.8 (for the wife), and send son/daughter off to college with a nice little Elantra (or if they want something really weird, inelegant, and impractical, maybe a Smart Car), for the same price as that S550. Plus a free iPad.

    Yes, that is terrible that an automaker would come up with a new way to bring attention to its cars. Shame on Hyundai for coming up with yet another new idea.
  • wolverinejoe80wolverinejoe80 Member Posts: 337
    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2010/07/22/488312.html

    Leading German motoring magazine AutoBild, has awarded Hyundai Motor
    Company the honor of first-place in its annual AutoBild Quality Report for 2010.

    Hyundai edged out local manufacturers BMW and Audi, and eclipsed its rival Toyota to take the prestigious award based on a comprehensive analysis of reliability, long-term quality and customer satisfaction.

    AutoBild's annual list evaluates seven key criteria, each weighted equally, including feedback received from 9278 owners, manufacturer warranty provisioning, recall information, and data from Germany's Technische Uberwachung Verein report (TÜV) based on no less than 7.5 million vehicle inspections.

    Considered by many to be one of the most respected industry quality surveys, and endorsed by a fastidious German audience, the award further demonstrates the gains Hyundai has made in consistently improving the quality of its products, service and support available to its owners.

    Hyundai’s star continues to rise elsewhere in Europe with British magazine Motor Trader naming Hyundai as the Car Franchise of the Year in its annual Motor Trader Industry Awards. Also in the UK, the i30 recently took first place in the Driver Power Top 100 survey, a customer satisfaction survey conducted by the best-selling Auto Express magazine – confirming the findings of UK’s Which? consumer guide whose subscribers revealed i30 to be Britain’s most reliable medium-sized car.
  • wolverinejoe80wolverinejoe80 Member Posts: 337
    http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/buying-and-selling/2010-07/autobild-top

    I know this and above article have nothing to do with Hyundai being luxury, but I just wanted to point out that Hyundai is making noise in every parts of the globe. I never once thought hyundai would win anything in Germany or U.K. last time I've visited London, Hyundais were bottom pile of the food chain, even lower than the Proton.

    but wow.. it's happening much sooner than i thought. only time will tell, but I firmly believe Hyundai will be Samsung of the automotive world.

    so never say never! :)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited July 2010
    Samsung. That's the company that has all the LCD TV problems likely caused by cheap capacitors. Be careful what you wish on Hyundai - word gets around fast these days. :D
  • dean3927dean3927 Member Posts: 80
    edited July 2010
    Wow...impressive indeed. Should make the German fanboys happy.

    Thanks for the link!
  • dean3927dean3927 Member Posts: 80
    *******

    http://www.automobile.com/sales-lead-of-lexus-over-mercedes-grows-in-us-market.h- tml
  • dean3927dean3927 Member Posts: 80
    *******

    http://rumors.automobilemag.com/6672176/miscellaneous/fast-facts-five-things-you- -didnt-know-about-the-2011-hyundai-equus/index.html
  • dean3927dean3927 Member Posts: 80
    edited July 2010
    2005 Bloomberg Business Week:

    Over the past five years, No. 20 Samsung has posted the biggest gain in value of any Global 100 brand, with a 186% surge. Even sweeter, last year Samsung surpassed No. 28 Sony, a far more entrenched rival that once owned the electronics category, in overall brand value.
    http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_31/b3945098.htm

    2009: The 100 Best Global Brands

    No. 19: Samsung
    It has overtaken Sony as the top TV brand and emerged as the only credible challenger to Nokia in mobile phones. To expand its appeal, Samsung is opening an app store.
    http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/09/0917_global_brands/83.htm

    No. 69: Hyundai
    Encouraged by a weak won and the improving quality of its cars, Hyundai poured money into marketing and boosted global market share to a record 5%.
    http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/09/0917_global_brands/33.htm
  • toyetoye Member Posts: 351
    WHAT THE #@^$%# !!!

    THIS BLOG HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED BY KMART (TIFFANY)!!!! :sick:
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,905
    THIS BLOG HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED BY KMART

    Are you referencing that quote above from the movie "Ruthless People" love that movie, hilarious....

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • toyetoye Member Posts: 351
    yes one of my favorite stupid but funny 80's movie....now back to our blog
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited July 2010
    The one-off spammers tend to hit the more active discussions; please send a host an email when they do and we'll be more likely to get to it faster.

    On another housekeeping note, Ergsum, if you see this, thanks for the note about identifying the crook's car from the CarSpace photo (link). I replied but your CarSpace email bounced.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    edited July 2010
    Yes, I will agree that MT claims something - has nothing to do with reality when the car hasn't been driven and the engine hasn't even been seen in the wild. We're down to a tenth of a second difference via "estimate"...insanity. The S550 MT tested can now be had for about 10K less than the Equus...that 10K would also buy a decent college runabout for some spoiled kid, or pay for maintenance and warranty on the luxobarge during longterm ownership. So what? And who is smoking who (or who is smoking what? ;) )

    Free gifts are hardly a new idea, sorry. Those higher brands seem to be selling well without the free gifts. I don't need a quickly obsolete gadget to lure me into a car. Maybe I am not so easily lured in by flashy marketing...if I want a knicknack, I will buy it myself.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Smaller Hs have been getting decent reviews in the Euro press for a few years now - especially the i series (but I am sure our blandiose Elantra is better). This coincides with that line of cars being the first really competitive product sold on the continent or in blighty. They still ridicule the Sonata and Grandeur.
  • ergsumergsum Member Posts: 146
    Thanks. Don't know why it bounced. Hopefully Good Guys +1, Bad Guys 0.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited July 2010
    OK, let's return here in a little over 3 years and compare a 3-year-old 2011 Equus to a brand new 2014 S550--with similar equipment. That price difference will probably be enough to buy a pretty nice condo in many parts of the country.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    OK, I am intrigued now... what "crook's car" are you referring to?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Check the link in my post or head over to Mystery car pix.... and scroll back a page or three. CarSpace members identified a car on survelliance tape for a police officer.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Yes of course that's right...but how is that a return to anything? All I originally said is that I'd choose a 3 year old S (and enough money for a hobby car/a few awesome vacations/maintenance for a long period) over a new Equus.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited July 2010
    Sure, then you go on about how much money you can save buying a used car vs. a new car. Well, of course you can. But the 2007 S550 you brought to our attention from the MT test cost over $100k new. A new one won't cost less now in 2010, will it? So that's a huge price disparity, apples-to-apples, new-to-new, between the S Class and Equus. Yet the Equus 5.0 DI will meet or likely beat that $100k-as-new S Class in acceleration, at least. And warranty, as you pointed out.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    The new price is irrelevant in my eyes - a better value is often found in the later model used car no matter the brand. The whole point is that the used S (or equivalent) + 10K in my pocket is a lot more appealing to me than a new Equus. New S to new Equus is far from an apples to apples comparison, few people will compare them as true equals. By the time this darkhorse mystery engine hits the road, who knows what will be in the S - the 550 series engine is several years old now and will only be around for so long. So the new DI unit can meet or maybe beat by a tenth an engine that will then be 5-6 years old. So what? I guess if the warranty is heartwarming, go for it.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    So if new cars are irrelevant in your eyes, we'll look forward in 3 years to your impressions of the 2011 Equus.

    I didn't think this discussion was about the merits of buying used vs. new. I'll bet there's entire discussions dedicated to that topic in the Town Hall.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    All I see is a black screen. :sick:
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    And now you'll see nothing, since the spam was zapped. :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    New cars are very relevant, as they become tomorrow's good deals. However the price comparisons of said new cars are not relevant to my buying behavior.

    I never said this discussion was about used vs new, but this did start when I simply opined that I'd rather have a used S and a little wad of cash than a new Equus.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Fair enough. So here is a question that is more to the point for people actually interested in buying a new car--including anyone who has interest in the Equus, since it is only available as a new car in the US: Pretend you are in the market for a new car. Your financial situation is what it is today. Which would you rather have (and pay for): The S550 tested by MT, but the 2010 (or 2011) version, at $100k+, or the Equus at about $55k? (And you can wait for next year if you want, for the 5.0 DI Equus).

    I think I know the answer, but thought I'd ask anyway.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    I am relatively conservative with money...if I had enough to spend 55K+ on a car without blinking, I'd also have enough to spend 100K. If I had the budget for the new the S and wanted a car in that segment, I would consider it and variants of its similarly origined competition. I probably wouldn't consider a Equus based on styling alone, but I also wouldn't look at a LS....when a car makes an S look sporty, it's too dull for me.

    Today, I don't have the budget for an S (unless I want to live in it) nor would I spend 55K+ on a car, especially one that looks like the Equus...so I guess it is moot.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    of course a 1 year old anything is going to be a helluva a buy, let the original purchaser take that horrendous first year hit. OR you can compare that year old S with a year old Equus. That way we will know if that legendary Hyundai name can yield even worse results than that other 'luxury' miscreant - aka the Phaeton!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Unlike the Equus, the Phaeton was at least an attractive car.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    That way we will know if that legendary Hyundai name can yield even worse results than that other 'luxury' miscreant - aka the Phaeton!

    I think what doomed the Phaeton was the following:

    1) VW was not perceived as a manufacturer of $70-100K automobiles
    2) Reliability
    3) Dealer service

    Does Hyundai have what it takes to overcome those issues? If the Equus comes in around $50K, they might have a chance to deal with #1. The long warranty should mitigate #2. And, only time will tell if the Equus buyers are happy getting their cars serviced at the same place as someone with a 2004 Accent.

    I think the biggest issue is that luxury car buyers (cars, mind you, not brands) have a certain level of expectation in their dealer experience, both with the initial purchase as well as after the sale service. Not sure that VW was able to address that - and I guess we'll see if Hyundai can.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    What also hurt the Phaeton was it was competing against the company's own Audi A8.
  • toyetoye Member Posts: 351
    edited August 2010
    Remember the Equus owner will not have to go the dealer period. Hyundai will come to your home and pickup the automobile and give you a loaner Equus. You will be able to schedule your service thru the Ipad and application that comes with the new Equus.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Remember the Equus owner will not have to go the dealer period. Hyundai will come to your home and pickup the automobile and give you a loaner Equus. You will be able to schedule your service thru the Ipad and application that comes with the new Equus.

    Seriously? No mileage limit to this?

    Wow ... wasn't aware of this.

    The cynic in me thinks that this is a ploy to have Equus owners avoid the downmarket service departments that are a part of many Hyundai dealers.

    Here in Denver, there is only one Hyundai dealer that has built a new showroom in the past 5 years ... all the other dealers are fairly shabby.
  • toyetoye Member Posts: 351
    The dealership issue was one of the concrens that Hyundai had. No mileage limit indicated any of the press releases. Only qualifing dealerships will get the Equus and eventually the Genesis. This may be the precurser of a separate brand down the road in a few years...time will tell.

    Hyundai had to have studied VW Phaeton's failure of what happen. They have already stated that they don't expect large sales volume if they can sell at least 2000 in the first 12 months they will have met their goal. With that low volume Hyundai can offer such high end service for their Equus clients.

    The January article from Fortune of Hyundai Motor Company really says alot of how this company thinks, works and future plans. The Fortune cover had a Equus/Genesis with shark teeth for the grill. An agressive company indeed.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    edited August 2010
    I also have to wonder how this ipad will arrange service if the customer is in a bad cell coverage area and doesn't have wifi.

    I can't imagine a dealer sending out cars 50+ miles for routine Equus servicing either. But maybe its as you say, to make it so the elite don't have to sit around the dealership and witness the proles dealing with their Accents.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles