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Is There Room in the Luxury Market for Hyundai?

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Comments

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Maybe it appeals to people who crave exclusivity in their cars. ;)
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    exclusivity is but one characteristic of a luxury car. Unfortunately though a another characteristic is what other folks think it is. Ford can make some darn luxurious 'Fords' but they cannot make a luxury car until they call it a Lincoln. And even that one is debatable. Same can be said for Chevy/Cadillac, VW/Audi, Toyota/Lexus etc etc. MB is unquestionably a luxury mfgr on this side of the pond but much more of a mass mfgr elsewhere. Like it or not, it all has to do with people's perceptions and may not have any basis in fact beyond that.

    Such is the plight of a Hyundai branded automobile ever finding a place in the luxury market
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,922
    Where you been hiding?

    Anyway, I live in a pretty populated area and haven't seen an Equus on the road yet. I did sit in one at the dealer and I'll tell you it is a very nice machine. I can't find much fault in it. If it was within my means I probably would have test driven it. IMHO its a halo car for Hyundai for them to say "I did it" I'm sure they have sold a few, but it certainly isn't paying the bills. The Sonata, Elantra and Santa Fe are taking care of those duties.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,167
    edited December 2011
    I live in an affluent area where a new S/LS/7er/A8 is not remarkable, and I have seen exactly one Equus. It had chrome wheels which took me back in time, and it was sitting too high - they must have adjustable suspension which the driver didn't understand. It didn't have much otherwise...from a distance I thought it was something else, maybe an Infiniti.

    I am sure it is a plush comfortable car and probably won't have any massive technical issues, but I anyway would spend 60K+ in a different way.
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    3 years ago, I could drive all over town and only see 1-2 Hyundai's of any kind. Now they're all over the place. I can't even go 3 miles to the store without spotting 3-4 Sonatas, 1-2 Santa Fe's, and various Elantras. The upscale Hyndai's are still scarce here, but that will change when the word spreads about the reliability and value of the brand. Better get used to them. It isn't hard to do, they're nice cars, and the non-pedigreed stench won't stick to you.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,167
    I won't hold my breath about the 60K+ models. That's an entirely different market than half the price or lower - different demographic, different demands. Some "better" be OK with questionably styled and marketed models being looked at with jaded eyes by enthusiasts. Hyundai has had a presence in my area for years, but it's not the same when you are playing with the big boys who own a very tough market.

    If one is spending that much, one is getting some kind of "stench" even if they are driving an alternative brand to pretend to not be a snob. Lexus fanboys used to claim not to have badge issues, but I don't think anyone believed that one either.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    not hiding - just busy :)
    still find efforts by a mass mfgr that is arguably still perceived as low end quite interesting.
    Have yet to talk to anybody outside of the confines of this particular forum that even knows about Genesis -never mind knows what the cars actually are.
    Don't believe, at this point, that Hyundai really has found a place in the luxury market - at least amongst those that have the money to buy (or lease) one.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,922
    Don't believe, at this point, that Hyundai really has found a place in the luxury market

    The Gen/Eq is a great marketing strategy for Hyundai. It shows the public that the days of the Excel are long gone. I really can't believe that either have been a success in terms of sales. It probably has gotten some people into the showroom that otherwise wouldn't have been there, so on some level it was most likely worth the effort.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Have yet to talk to anybody outside of the confines of this particular forum that even knows about Genesis -never mind knows what the cars actually are.

    You could ask the over 87,000 people who have bought a new Genesis (in NA). They might know about it, and know what the cars actually are.
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    There may be 87K people that know about the Genesis, but the only one that matters is me. If it's a comfortable, stylish, reliable car for a good price, I don't care if I own the only one on earth. :)
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    87000??? really - would have to see the actual stats - the $40k Gen had US sales of well less than 2k/month - a Toyota Avalon would do good to make 87k, Or maybe Hyundai does better in Canada and Mexico where the name doesn't carry so much baggage. Don't believe it.....
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,922
    Remember Hyundai groups sedan and coupe sales together, so you really will never know how many sedans they actually sold. I don't see many and I'm in a populated area. There were two in my neighborhood (including mine) and now they are both gone.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    87000??? really

    Yes.

    would have to see the actual stats

    They're on this marvelous invention called the Internet. It's on computer now!!

    You asked about the "Genesis". Now all the qualifiers come in. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose...
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,167
    Might also be counting the 25K (and maybe less) Gen, and it has been for sale for 3 calendar years now. Over 36 months it becomes more believable.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    you know instead of sarcasm that's really not necessary , you might try a simple link?
    Sounds like you might be quoting Hyundai's own PR releases and might also be including sales for a number of years in 3 different countries. On that basis, 87k possibly unremarkable? Wonder how many other Hyundais sold in the same period - a million or two or three?
    That's where Hyundai is making all the progress IMO - acceptance in the mass market - they ARE getting a whole lot better at that!
  • tenpin288tenpin288 Member Posts: 804
    edited December 2011
    For US sales only:

    Genesis Sedan 2008 to Aug 2011-- 49000 sold

    Genesis Coupe 2009 to Aug 2011--30500 sold

    Total 89500 (sounds pretty close to the number Backy mentioned)

    source:Hyundai US Sales

    (click on the historical sales link to download a spreadsheet of Hyundai US sales since 1986 including retail vs fleet numbers)

    ;)
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    hate this idiotic new forum format and operation - what jerk figured this one out? Half the time my posts disappear into neverneverland. Gone for another 12 months I suppose. Merry Christmas to all :D
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2011
    Some people hit "preview" and then forget to hit "post". But you must be doing it mostly right because you are managing to submit "empty" posts.

    May want to select all, right click > copy when you finish composing and then hit post. That way you won't have to start all over if the post doesn't work; you can just paste and go.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    You know, instead of questioning every bit of information anyone posts here that is contrary to your world view, you COULD do the research yourself--just like others do. It's not hard. It takes a few searches in your favorite search engine.

    I gathered the sales info from multiple links--from multiple sources (non-Hyundai web sites fwiw) for NA Hyundai sales across 4 calendar years. If you had asked me politely, I would have been glad to post them for you.

    But I am leery of posting links, especially in this discussion, due to multiple experiences where the links were dismissed because they included facts not consistent with someone's opinion on this subject.
  • ladriver2ladriver2 Member Posts: 3
    Just got my Equus 8/17/12 (3 days ago). Traffic part of navigation was not working out the door. Called Sirius customer service, who told me they could not fix it, and that in 7-10 business days, someone would call me to address the issue! Next, I called the Equus service line. Was told by the first agent, Kristin, this was not Hyundai's problem, nothing they could do! I spoke to supervisor Mike, who told me basically the same thing. It's Monday, and I have not heard back from Hyundai or Sirius. I called Hyundai again, supervisor Maryanne said the same thing-not Hyundai's problem. Actually Maryanne spent more time making excuses for Sirius than anything. She told me I should wait to hear back from Sirius. When I pressed her on whether she thought Sirius' response to me of 7-10 business days to get a call back was reasonable, she told me she could not say, as she was not an expert in that product!

    Terrible customer service. I expect Hyundai to stand behind their product, especially the Equus. Instead every person I spoke with has immediately passed the buck to Sirius and refused to help. I would expect them to replace the unit or lean heavily on Sirius to fix this timely. No such luck and no one at Hyundai seems to care.
  • dean3927dean3927 Member Posts: 80
    Take a look at the rear-end shots (full, 3/4) and you will see the resemblance between the Accord and the Genesis. Reminds me of a comment made by a Honda executive a few years back: "They're [Hyundai] awesome." I guess it's natural to mimic what one admires:

    http://www.caranddriver.com/photo-gallery/2013-honda-accord-sedan-first-drive-re- view
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,167
    edited September 2012
    Funny, when I see the new Accord rear, I think of it paying homage to the 98-02 style.

    Seeing as the Equus mimics the LS, does that then mean Honda really has a crush on Toyota? :shades:
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    Yeah, I agree with that 98-02 look. Have one of those. So does everyone else....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I saw the 2013 Accord sedan up close today, and when I drove up to the dealership there was a sedan sitting at a curb by the dealership main building... except at first I thought it was a Genesis. An uncanny resemblance, starting with the tail lamps with the same shape, color (white on top of red), and approximate size, but in other aspects too e.g. license plate cut-out, rear bumper trunk cut-out, the way the trunk splits the tail lamps, and of course they both have the Hofmesiter kink (which the previous Accord had also). Just proves once again there's only so many ways to mold plastic and bend sheet metal for cars.

    Looks real good on the Accord--a big improvement over the prior generation, not just in the rear but overall.
  • dean3927dean3927 Member Posts: 80
    edited October 2012
    IntelliChoice and AutoPacific awarded the Hyundai Equus with the 2012 Motorist Choice Award in the Luxury Lifestyle and High Tech category. IntelliChoice and AutoPacific, both distinguished automotive research companies, annually recognize vehicles that deliver a compelling combination of high consumer satisfaction and lower-than-expected ownership cost over time.

    “Hyundai has worked hard to create a vehicle that provides luxury car shoppers with tremendous value and amenities, and as winner in categories for Luxury Lifestyle and High Tech, demonstrates that they've surely succeeded in the mind’s eye of the consumer,” said Dan Hall, vice president, AutoPacific.

    Hyundai’s flagship Equus successfully competes with the best sedans in the world, while adding a new level of customer experience to luxury car ownership. Since its introduction, Equus has outpaced its sales and market share expectations. The 2012 Equus features Hyundai’s most powerful engine ever, the new direct injection 5.0-liter Tau V8 engine. The new engine produces 429 horsepower and is mated to a new in-house eight-speed transmission providing Equus drivers more power and refinement.

    “With a host of standard features and innovative technology including Hyundai’s most powerful engine, the 2012 Equus offers customers a perfect marriage of luxury and affordability,” said Scott Margason, director, Product Planning, Hyundai Motor America. “This recognition from IntelliChoice and AutoPacific is proof that our flagship sedan is a true competitor amongst the most sought out luxury sedans in the market.”

    For a complete list of award winners, visit http://www.autopacific.com/2012-award-winners
    (Scroll Down for Motorist Choice)
  • victor23victor23 Member Posts: 201
    IntelliChoice and AutoPacific awarded the Hyundai Equus with the 2012 Motorist Choice Award in the Luxury Lifestyle and High Tech category.

    In both categories, the Equus is qualified as a "popular", not a "premium" vehicle. In "premium", Porsche Cayenne and Cadillac Escalade won these categories.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,167
    Too much "competes with" schtick there - sounds like ad copy. The true measure will be sales.
  • wtlwtl Member Posts: 11
    Genesis was my first choice since it looks nice, drives nice and has more discounts/incentives compare with my other two choices. As I search various forums, hearing people whining about how unsatisfied with the dealer treatment as people paid good $35k and above for genesis, not to mention the incompetence to fix the car at first time truly drives me away from Hyundai.
    For the past couple of weeks, I was looking to buy a genesis, test drove and love it but didn't realy want to commit until I have a chance to see the 2013 Avalon. I was also test drove the BMW x1 since it has easy accessible space for a full size cello. I can tell the difference from the moment I walked into the BMW showroom. I do think Hyundai has a long way to go to become a truly luxury car brand, at least I don't think it's even comparable with Toyota. There are some fundamentals for a luxury brand to success that are just not there today. As for me, my choices have gone down to two.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,167
    edited November 2012
    I just bought a pile of German magazines as souvenirs - I see someone had the gall to base the V6 Genesis coupe (no sedan there) at EUR 39.5K. In Germany, you can get a nice enough C or 3er coupe for the same money, or a base E coupe for EUR 2K more. Seems a little ambitious, or as I like to call it, stupid. Is it Korean arrogance, or German suits trying to sabotage?
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I see someone had the gall to base the V6 Genesis coupe (no sedan there) at EUR 39.5K.

    I don't even see the Genesis coupe on hyundai.de.

    The only reference I could find to the coupe in Germany was a limited edition of 50 GT's based on a racing team Genesis owned by a German dealer.

    http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2011/08/limited-edition-hyundai-genesis-coupe- -gt-heading-to-germany.html
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,167
    This is per the Fall 2012 "Auto Kauf" buyers guide published by "Auto Motor und Sport" (probably the most respected car rag in continental Europe). The 2013 "Auto Katalog" published by the same source also lists the Genesis coupe with 4cyl (EUR 6K less) and 6cyl.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I'm just reporting. The Genesis isn't on Hyundai.de so I was curious and dug around.

    I did check out Auto Motor and Sport's website and they have a test. They didn't seem critical of it and noted a price of E36K for the stick and an adder of E1900 for the slushbox.

    http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/fahrberichte/hyundai-genesis-coupe-gt-coupe-m- it-nordschleifen-schliff-4317073.html
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,167
    edited November 2012
    Some European maker websites are unexceptional.

    Maybe prices increased - the paper I have claimed 39.5K for the V6. Still seems like unexceptional value compared to the US - almost like they are kind of wanting to not make it. The magazine indeed doesn't say it is bad (although seems to complain about declining interior material quality), but for the money, it's a toughie. The Genesis sedan not existing there (not to mention the Equus) also says something. Maybe not so many upmarket aspirations there.

    Could be worse though, I flipped the page and saw the Infiniti FX50 for a mere 75.6K, which is significantly more than say a diesel Range Rover Sport there.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    but I anyway would spend 60K+ in a different way.

    And we now know that you did...
    Hey..if the Hyundai had a diesel, maybe it mighta stood a 4% chance against the MB..

    I had a thought on the Equus sitting too high..mighta been someone who has difficulty getting in and out and parks it raised for easier ingress/egress. It just might have been thee reason the guy bought it..

    Then again he mighta been just clueless.. :sick:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,167
    Well, leased 60K anyway. I bet I got it cheaper than I could have snagged an Equus too - rates I have seen on those make Hyundai look pretty proud. The Korean barge might be more luxurious - on paper anyway - but I don't regret my choice.

    I was assuming the Equus had adjustable ride height, and the driver didn't know how to set it. Or to be optimistic, maybe he had it set for some of the second world quality roads around here.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    You would think that Hyundai would have learned the merits of humility by now..
    Oh well..maybe they need another shot in the arm..I guess we'll see.

    I must say, I'm not much of a fan. Plus, many of their cars still smell odd inside. Might be the hemp they use..

    The last car I had that had height adjustable susp was a Subaru XT6. It was very trick and got looks letting itself down after leaving the car. The only time I used it for its intended purpose, (as opposed to entertainment, ha) was if there was a big fall of snow in the driveway. It would automatically lower itself if you left it in high position on the highway..somewhere around 45 mph or so..
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,167
    I am somewhat surprised they haven't been louder about the Equus. I think the bland design might be holding them back. The eventual replacement will be touted louder, but still have a tough row to hoe. i am sure it is a fine car for what it is, but isn't quite the big German equivalent that the execs want people to think, nor an LS.

    I am scared of unconventional suspensions, given what I know about older MBs. Not a question of "if" it will have issues.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    fintail, came here to reply to a post you made in "I like manuals because" thread. I see it is a Read Only thread now.

    Re your comment about wanting a bike with a light clutch pull, definitely check out any of the mid to lower cc class of Ducatis. I couldn't believe what a nice light clutch they had (trying it in the showroom). They have become very popular with women or anyone with shorter fingers for that very reason. I haven't driven any of them (the 690's? and 800's?) so can't comment on clutch take-up. But Ducati are known to cater to details like that so I bet they feel great..
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2013
    There is another sandbox to play in still:

    The Future Of The Manual Transmission
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    Thanks, Steve..I knew I have seen fintail in different forums but couldn't think of which one off hand, and had a recollection that I owed him a reply here I had forgotten about. ;)

    btw way, once he see's it here, feel free to nuke it if you want just to keep this one clean
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