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Toyota is on the Offensive. Will it work?
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Comments
I think I have made it clear. I find Toyota as a company OFFENSIVE!
You & Steve are right, this thread is not about my problems with Toyota. I will try not to intrude on sacred ground.
Even gagrice himself must appreciate the fact that they switched to a no-maintenance chain rather than a belt with 60k replacement intervals that people like him overlook.
So in an ironic turn-around, gagrice's posts have shed light on a major Toyota offensive - maintenance-free timing chains!
Time to close the topic, question answered! J/K
But why not let the forum know what Toyota could do better. Jeeze, I've never owned one in my life and I have all kinds of opinions, good and bad about them. They (rightfully IMO) are ready to steal the top sales spot from GM so they have some kind of offensive going...
You're in to diesels right? Well, what models do you think can benefit the most?
Don't buy the whole hybrid hype? Tell the forum why you don't agree with it.
Don't like Toyota clutches? I don't know what to say...
A little research shows Toyota's new V6s do indeed have timing chains. The 1GR (4.0l) versions went in the following trucks:
2003 Toyota 4Runner
2003 Toyota Land Cruiser (Europe)
2003 Toyota Land Cruiser Prado (Asia Pacific)
2005 Toyota Tacoma
2005 Toyota Tundra
2005 Toyota Fortuner (Middle East)
2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser
The 2GR version makes it into these models:
2005 Toyota Avalon
2006 Toyota Aurion
2006 Toyota RAV4 V6
2006 Toyota Estima V6
2007 Toyota Previa V6
2007 Toyota Tarago V6
2007 Toyota Camry V6
2007 Toyota Sienna
2007 Lexus ES 350
2007 Lexus RX 350
2008 Toyota Kluger
2008 Toyota Highlander
2006 Toyota Crown Athlete (Japan)
2006 Lexus GS 350 (Japan)
2006 Lexus GS 450h
2006 Lexus IS 350 (Japan and United States)
2007 Lexus GS 350 (United States)
The reason I bring this up is that a timing belt failure due to neglect, as reported here, is no longer a possibility in any of these Toyotas.
Timing belts can't break if they don't even exist!
So this a non-issue. The new Tacoma uses a chain. So does the new big V8 in the Tunrda, by the way. So you'll never see a timing belt failure there.
Sorry to disappoint you gagrice, but what happened to you will not ever happen to these, no use huffing and puffing about it any more. :P
You have to understand where I am coming from. It was the timing gear that went out twice in 25k miles on the Land Cruiser. I would expect a little more than 35k more miles after 30 years of R&D.
Expecting me to read the manual from 3000 plus miles away and foreseeing those kind of poor design problems is not justified in my book. I guess that is where GM shines over Toyota. You just drive them and don't worry about reading a manual. The only thing I ever look at the manual for is setting the clock and recommended oil changes. I have never done a 30k or 60k mile check up at a GM dealer.
I have said this before. If Toyota is first to the field with a mid sized diesel PU. I would give it a shot.
Personally I think the other automakers are going to catch Toyota with their hybrid pants down.
And as for timing belts, the Tundra 4.7 V-8 still uses one - I think that and the last of the V-6 Solaras still using the old 3.3L engine are the last Toyota models to use a belt instead of a chain. The Solara is due to be phased out in the next year, of course, and I suppose the Tundra/LC's 4.7 will be too when the new LC arrives next year.
mackabee: the problem with those xA Release Series is they were way too much money extra (over the base model) with way too little extra content - most of it was cosmetic.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Hopefully they have better designed engines now. They still don't build a diesel for the US market so are not on my radar.
PS
Does my wife's LS400 have a belt or a chain? We have had all the maintenance done and I did not see a bill for that.
I never underswtood the fascination carmakers had with timing belts in the 90s. The weight savings had to be so minimal as not to matter, and the noise from a chain vs that of a belt seems negligible to me too.
While timing chains have no official change interval and will usually give you lots of advance warning when they are getting old and stretched, some people still recommend changing them anyway at a certain mileage (usually 100K or 150K among those I've heard) just to avoid the engine jumping timing.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Mackabee
"Does my wife's LS400 have a belt or a chain? We have had all the maintenance done and I did not see a bill for that."
gag, you do know that's a Toyota right?
As noted previously one of the most amazing things of all is the inherent efficiency of the V6's. They are all the same GR's with slightly different applications. This is over a million engines alone in the US. This GR V6 has now been extended to China and to Japan. One single V6 across millions of vehicles. And to top that off in building it they saved $1000 per engine during production.
Whoaaa.. That's a thousand million(s) of dollars saved ( $1 Billion )....every year, forever.
Now that's an offensive.
Only the models using the new modular 2.5/3.5 have timing chains. Lexus is selling a lot of old product right now. They should extend the wheelbase of the RX, call it the RX-L or something, and cancel the GX altogether. And the SC and GS should go to using the new engine in the '08 LS. Will there possibly be a model update for the SC any time soon here? It seems like it must be overdue.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
A blog (or a blog post if you will) is made by one person and is more of a dairy where you post your thoughts on a daily or less frequent basis.
If you set up a blog, you'll be the only person who can make a blog entry and that's the main hook for that blog entry. Anyone will be able to comment on your CarSpace blog, and you can engage with others in the comments, but because blogging is done on an ongoing basis, the comments tend to be active for a day or three, and then everyone moves on to chew on your next missive. It's more of a soapbox and less collaborative in some ways that a forum discussion.
Mackabee
Some bloggers have taken their posts over the course of a year or so and made a book out of them. How about "Tales from the Tower?"
Don't encourage our friend to drag the stories out more. Some of us hang on these episodes more than American Idol each week. We are waiting for the next post from Mack...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But they are sure worth waiting for!
engine.
That's where the value comes in, not to mention that the new V6 added 70 hp and better fuel economy.
They keep their profit margin intact yet the vehicles have more in them at about the same pricing - 6 yrs down the road with ~10% inflation factored in to the cost/price. Consider that with a 10% inflation over 6 yrs a $21000 4c Camry with no airbags/VSC/Trac should now cost a little over $23000. However today it's still under $22000 but with all those features and a larger more fuel efficient 2.4L engine. This is where all the other vehicle makers envy Toyota, it's production process improvement is unrelenting.
The current chairman gave the engineers a brilliant goal to hit earlier this year. Currently there is about 14000 parts to a typical auto. He charged them with cutting that number in half. HUH? What 2 doors in stead of 4? 1 headlight instead of 2?
Actually it means looing at the whole puzzle and saying 'Where are 20 pieces that can be combined into one unit of 5 pieces?' 'Where are there three panels that can be formed in one process from one piece of metal?' This efficiency saves fabrication and makes the whole vehicle simpler ( lower cost ).
Example: Back in the 90's every vehicle had a distributor, rotors and spark plug wires. That all has been replaced since 1998 by an electronic induction coil sitting atop each plug ( TDI ).
Anyway most consumers don’t care if the is a V4 or V6 or V8. They don’t care about horse power. The only consumers who do care are people into sports cars or people more into cars in general.
What they do care about are things like reliability, safety, and fuel efficiency. They also want a car with enough pick up which is a bit different than just horsepower. (i.e. depends on torque, weight, and horsepower)They want a car with enough interior space and a nice interior. They want a car with some styling, but not something too bold. Basically they want what Toyota delivers in spades.
Almost every model just looks like a Small, Medium and Large version of the same car.
The thing is, Chrysler/Dodge don't tell you, warn you, or advertise that this is "the worst car we ever built and are trying to sell you." They should, at least that would be more honest and ethical.
Since they touted it and advertised it as the "new" Dodge, and the "new" Chrysler way of design, there is no reason to believe anything they make is any better.
Mackabee
Mack
Come on even you have to admit that at first glance and if with minimum size reference it is hard to tell a RAV4 and a new Highlander apart.
See
Maybe to the casual observer that would be the case. I've been around these cars for so long that I can tell them apart just by looking at the wheels.
Or you can copy the URL in the other box there and use the Img button just above the Emotorcons to paste it here - so you'd hit the Img button, paste the photo URL, and then hit the Img button again to close the html code. That's especially handy for photos that aren't hosted on your CarSpace page.
Mine has 86K miles, no repairs yet, pulls 41 mpg average in suburban driving, and WILL win 0-60 races with the Prius, the 4-cylinder Camry, the Honda Fit, and the Ford Explorer! :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Is that really a good example of making it simpler, though? Seems to me that this is kind of like taking one distributor and breaking it down into 4, 6, 8, or occasionally 12 different components.
Andre's observation on this statement is a valid one, just more individual components to fail.
But, kdhspyder's original statement is incorrect anyway. SAAB introduced direct ignition with coil-on-plug design on it's SAAB 9000 Turbo in 1989.
The new TDI put in the Toyota's across the board in 1998 simplified the mechanical operation of the vehicle by replacing numerous moving mechanical parts with no moving parts and an electronic controller. More complex electronically? Yes, but simpler and lighter mechanically.
Wow, I'm not even sure how to respond to that. I'm sure GM would try to get you to change your ways and take them in for preventative maintenance.
Plus, most people are not like that, they will get their cars serviced. For comparison purposes, we should look at the reliability for vehicles that are maintained every so often, because most owners will do this.
You are looking for a car that can be neglected, while most are looking for a car that will be reliable and last a long time when they are maintained properly.
When Land Rovers share a common theme, even with their 1960s predecessors, it's a corporate identity theme.
When Toyota does it, it's small, medium, large versions of the same car? I thought that was a good thing.
Plus, I don't even think the RAV4 looks like the others. It's far more youthful, check out the D-pillar and especially the interior.
Mackabee
Then, lo and behold, they started making Cadillacs the size of Volkswagens (they were really Cavaliers but they said Cadillac on them) and then everyone got into the act of making same look different sizes. As it turns out I'm fine....