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Buying a Used CJ or Wrangler
awidenhouse
Member Posts: 4
in Jeep
I am planning on buying a used CJ or Wrangler as a Play Toy. I am looking now at a Wranger 92' 9" of lift 33/12.5 tires and 4.0 motor. I am also looking at several early 80 CJ-7's. Is there anything I should know about these Jeeps before buying one?
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tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
I know of a 1982 CJ7 for sale near me for about $4k (not mine as I don't have one). The earlier CJ's will likely have rust issues so look over the body and systems carefully. They will likely be carburated as well, so if you plan on playing with the CJ offroad, steep angles will get interesting on occasion.
-Paul
The first thing you need to know is that CJs, YJs, and TJs are very different vehicles that have a similar appearance.
If you want a reliable vehicle with readily available parts, get a TJ. If you want a hobby vehicle you might consider a CJ.
CJ/Wranglers use a seperate body and chassis, so chassis rust is more critical than body rust, though neither is good. TJs are the least likely to have serious rust issues.
A well maintained Wrangler with a 4.0 should see 150-250k miles without major problems. However, the older the vehicle the more 'interesting' its history is likely to have been. Same applies to a vehicle that has been modified by some of its previous owners.
If you want a hobby, pick whatever catches your fancy. If you want a reliable ride, pick a late, unmodified, properly maintained, street queen.
Seriously, nine inches? Good grief!!! :surprise:
Also, I don't understand about the stabilizer having been removed, but that it has dual stabilizers?
The pull to the left come from the torque of the engine twisting the suspension when you step on the gas. The only possible use for such an extreme suspension modification is for use offroad, or for a show vehicle.
But if you find a good one ... buy it and never give him away.
In my experience, insurance assessors and claims adjusters are pretty sharp and aren't usually known for their generosity when setting the selling price of a damaged vehicle.
As to value, the general rule of thumb is that a repaired salvage titled vehicle is worth 50% of what it would be with a regular title. Whether it's worth it or not to you depends on how you value your time, your skill level. A messed up salvage titled '06 will be worth half what a messed up but regular titled '06 would be. Remember also, that late model salvage titled vehicles can be difficult to sell because traditional credit institutions are reluctant lend on them.
Finally, eBay and salvage yards are the major source of used parts, both good and bad. Keep in mind that if you use parts from earlier models then the vehicle's value will be depreciated even further.
That's good, as it'll get about the same as the 4.0.
but I am curious about power for pulling a boat/trailor
Unless it's a very lightweight trailer, forget it.
highway speeds
If it's flat with no headwind you'll eventually be able to match speed with surrounding traffic.
torque for mud and hills
This where gearing makes up for the difference in power between the 4.0 and the 2.5. The 2.5 does fine offroad.
I have a 1997 TJ SE with the 4 cyl and 5 speed. Manual transmission is the ONLY way I'd have gotten a 4 cyl. A 6 was my preference, but ended up with the 4 since it was initially for my 16 YO daughter.
MPG is decent, about the same as the 4.0 - your limiting factor is the Jeep's lack of aerodynamics, lack of high end horsepower, and excess of drag, especially as you mod it.
Power for pulling a boat? Realize that the SWB TJ you're looking at has a rating of MAX 1500 lbs or so, due mainly to the short wheel base. For the 2.5, I'd say the realistic max is a bit lower than that. I moved my daughter to new apartments and home with my TJ using this trailer. Yeah, I need a drop neck hitch on the TJ.
You see it loaded about 1/2 to 2/3 full of hardwood floor. THAT was not problem, but I was only going max of 45-50. I couldn't imagine hauling THAT size trailer or a boat on the highway. Jetski, probably. Lightweight Sunfish or boat, likely. But a fullsize powerboat, no way. Also a 1/4 ton military trailer with camping gear or a Lowe's/Home Depot run, sure would LOVE one of those.
Highway speeds are a mix. I have regeared to 4.88 to help with the rotational mass of the 33's I have as tires. That puts me to about stock. Here in north Alabama, Tennessee, and Kentucky, I can normally maintain 65-75 depending if I am going up (60-65), down (65-80), or level (right about 70). If the hill is long and/or steep, I'll have to downshift to 4th, sometimes 3rd if it is REAL steep. I'm used to it. I have another car for go fast duties, with twice as many cylinders.
For offroad, the 4 cyl does JUST fine. I've taken it places where the 6 cyl Rubicons go (I'm locked front and rear). With the appropriate gearing, a manual transmission, a hand throttle, and a good spotter, I can go where I want to go with no problems. Just a slightly different driving style. While 6 cyls can tackle a steep, rocky hill in 2nd gear and 4lo, I'd approach it in 4lo and 1st gear. 2nd gear can lead to the engine lugging a bit and potentially dying. I prefer to keep the RPM's a bit higher on a ride like that. I DO NOT LIKE restarting my engine on a STEEP incline while offcamber.
Offroad...
If you need to haul a boat, you MAY want to consider one of the newer TJ Unlimited's which have the longer wheelbase, higher towing capacity, and the 4.0 engine.
Feel free to ask any other questions you'd like.
-Paul
"Manual transmission is the ONLY way I'd have gotten a 4 cyl"
-Paul
As far as the CJ vs wrangler (notice not capitalized)
The wrangler is a good product and generally all around sound vehicle. The 4.0 is bullet proof, they learned that back in the 60's. If mileage is a concern go for the 4.0 or any in line 6 cylinder version.
I will say as far as suspension the wranglers do have us CJers beat. As far as a stock product they made some good changes.
I would not purchase the 9" CJ. It is a problem waiting to surface. It also sounds to me that you have a limited jeep experience. That 9" lift is a bear to handle. As far as the pulling it is a simple solution, drop the Jeep 5" and it will probably fly straight. Anybody who goes over 4" is an idiot, unless you are building for a specific reason.
Off-roading is a slow moving art form of driving. You could build the most radical machine and have a stock 4cyl pass you on the trail because the other knows how to drive. The key is not power but torque AT THE WHEELS.
Rust: look at the chassis as mentioned earlier. If you find surface rust no biggie. If it has rusted through the frame anywhere but on the very front or very rear then do not purchase. A good way to fix the problem is POR15. Simply brush it on and it will cease the rust. Good product. And it will keep you busy over the winter months.
I hope my blabbering helped and you got a chuckle or two. If down in NC come by the shop. I am never there. :shades:
JOHN
PS I like the little car thingies.
CJ - older style up to about 1985 IIRC.
YJ - 86-96
TJ - 97-06 models (what I drive)
JK - 07-now
When looking at a Jeep, consider if you plan on offroading it - as that may affect which version you go after. I personally wouldn't go any older than a TJ, especially if you want reliability for a daily driver.
If you plan to offroad, consider the axle types (Dana 44's have a metal plug on the back axle for draining vs a rubber one and are considerably stronger). Strength is key for bigger tires, gears, lockers, etc.
Some like the hard top, some love the soft top. Mine only has the soft top and steel half doors. My upper doors/windows are fabric. There are:
Hard tops / soft tops
full doors / half doors
Safari / bikini tops to cover the cabin, but have no windows at all (I run one in the summer with no doors at all.
If you tell me what your intended activities are with it, I could better help you. A 2001-2006 TJ (Sport trim) with hard and soft tops is an EXCELLENT base to start from, whichever path you choose.
-Paul
I've found that jacking up the body/frame a bit to sit on jackstands so the axles are easier to access makes changing the fluids a bit easier.
-Paul
Totally agreed. In fact, this is the only way to do it. I guess this is a lesser problem for liftted TJs. I wished they could have designed this differently so that there is a little more space between the tank and the rear axle for easier maintenance and (quick) inspections.
Questions: mileage for a 6 vice 4 cyl? reliability? safety? will be driving in No. VA. DC area. any and all advice will be welcomed.
How old is she? Wranglers are not necessarily ideal for a new driver due to their short wheelbase and higher COG. My daughter had one (and it became mine) and nearly rolled it on the road going around the corner.
As for your questions:
1. 6 will have more pep, esp on the highways. Mileage may be a hair better for the 4, but not enough to be a huge difference. The 4 is great for around town. DEFINITELY not a speed demon. I have a 4cyl.
2. Reliability. Depends on previous owners. My 97 is doing okay with only a few things I've had to address, mainly from my offroading. If the PO wheeled it (check the underside for scrapes, dents, etc) I'd probably stay away.
3. Safety. They hold up pretty well in crashes, but if this is a concern, I think there are better SUV options out there. I drive mine w/o doors and top and it can be disconcerting for younger drivers knowing a bumper or other car part could get ya pretty easily. I've armored mine up for offroad action and I actually feel safer in it as a result, even on road.
In your region, knowing how DC drivers are, the 6 would be a better option as far as being able to go highway speeds vs being the slowpoke and have a truck drive up the tailpipe.
-Paul
2. My 2004 has had ZERO problems! and yes it has been used off-road.
3. Safety? Name any other consumer vehicle that comes with a functional roll-cage. We traded a dodge neon in on our Wrangler and my insurance premiums actually dropped! They are safe to drive and cheap to fix.
4. Things you WILL want in a used jeep. Full size doors are a must, No one wants to unzip the window every time you go to the ATM or McDonalds. Hard top is a Plus for the winters in your area, you can always buy an aftermarket soft top.( Alot of Hardtoppers like me have both ). Say NO to skinny tires. Wider tires get more traction in wet weather and have better overall handling. A/C comes in handy when sitting in traffic under a hot sun.
5. One thing to remember - They all ride ruff !
Check the radiator for any signs of leaks (Jeep radiators are a mix of plastic and metal and can crack - easily fixed). May also want to check under the carpet for signs of rust.
If you stick with 03 and newer, you should get a decent one. Quite a few changes in 02 and 03, but then fairly consistent after that.
The opinion about full vs half doors is pure opinion. I have half doors and HATE the full doors. When the uppers are off, VERY comfortable. The full doors feel confining by comparison, though I admit they are more secure, especially with a hard top.
may want to see about finding one with both hard and soft top if possible. If you have one top, and want the other, adding it later can be pricey!
-Paul
To find comparable Jeeps you'll need to research magazines and eBay over a period of time, and remembering of course that there's always a difference between asking and actual selling price.
Joni
When you say $30 restoration, do you mean that is what it would cost to fix it up? He is asking $3,000.
(Mmm.......$30K = $30,000.
Three thousand dollars sounds like a lot to me for a Jeep in need of restoration, even if the engine has been 'taken care of'.
Whats' your objective? If you want to end up with a beautifully restored older model Jeep, then buying one that someone else has done the work on will be much cheaper than restoring one yourself.
If you want an inexpensive Jeep runabout, you'll get a much better value in a later model.
If you want the fun and experience of restoring an older Jeep then this may be the way to go. However, unless there's something exceptionally wonderful about this one I think you need to negotiate a substantially lower price, and even then you'll be amazed at how much you'll eventually spend on the project.
Just remember that fully restored vehicles at the lower end of the market (under $100K) sell all the time for much less than the cost of restoration. Most people restore them for pleasure rather than profit.
you answered our questions. we are novices at this. it helps to get advice from someone who has experienced something first hand. Our main thing was if we pick up the Jeep cheap, would restoring be a big cost and it sounds like it could be depending on how good of condition we want to make it. thanks so much for your help.
cactusgabby
Glad that helped. Don't let it put you off owning a Jeep though!
-Paul
-Paul
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
Has 55, 000 miles: plan to change coolant and tranny fluid soon. Anything else, i.e. plugs, etc.. thx. Paul
It's likely to be one of three things.
In no particular order, it could be a hardtop that's distorted, the hardtop could have been refitted incorrectly, or the seal on top of the windshield could be bad.
Whichever, start by unclipping the hardtop at the windshield and removing the top to body fixings at the tub, then lift it a little and move it back six inches.
You can now examine the header seal on top of the windshield frame. If it's damaged in any way replace it (part #55176 512AE_ SEAL, Header Opening).
This would also be a good time to examine the top to body seals as well, as they too have a bearing on the alignment of the top (SEAL, Enclosure To Body_#55176 372AC Right _#55176 373AC Left).
To correctly refit the top, very loosely install the tub bolts then align the front of the top on the header rail and snap the retaining clips shut. Lastly, tighten the fixing bolts, pulling or pushing the hardtop sides in or out as you do so to align with the body sides.
Finally, if the noise remains because the hardtop was a poor molding (or you're too lazy to undertake the previous steps :P ), you can run a thick bead of silicone sealant between the front lip of the hardtop and the windshield frame.
Use the best quality black sealant in a cartridge, which needs to be applied with a caulking gun. Cut the nozzle for a thick bead and smooth it afterwards as the smoother it is the quieter it will be. You might also want to lay masking tape above and below the joint beforehand to help keep thing clean and tidy.
Has 55, 000 miles: plan to change coolant and tranny fluid soon. Anything else, i.e. plugs, etc.
Yes, do everything. Whenever you get a 'new to you' vehicle, service everything.
You don't know when things were previously done and it gives you a baseline for future maintenance.
Inspect the brakes and steering, change the brake fluid and power steering fluid, and grease the steering and suspension points.
Check the wheel bearings for wear, and the 'U' joints on the propshafts and front halfshafts.
Change all powertrain fluids (diffs, t/case, transmission, engine) and filters. plus the air filter, spark plugs, and serpentine belt.
Flush the cooling system and check the hoses for cracks and leaks.
From that point on just keep to the maintenance schedule in your handbook, starting in 3K miles as if the Jeep was brand new.
Have fun!
-Paul
Is there anyone on this board that can comment? Are the dealer prices high or is Edmunds low? I'm an experienced negotiator but I don't know too much about Jeeps and need some feedback from folks that are used to dealing in this market.
Dealers usually have a lot more mark up on a used vehicle compared to a new one.
Just a theory, but I keep seeing comments like yours. :shades:
Thanks
Corkscrew