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Honda Civic Hybrid IMA Problems

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Comments

  • segmadsegmad Member Posts: 1
    I was driving home from work and the Charging System Indicator, Malfunction Indicator, and the IMA system indicator came on. I drove it straight to the Honda dealership and they called me back and told me is was the MCM failing. They quoted me at $1,500 for a replacement, diagnostics, etc. Can I get this part from a junkyard for a cheaper price? A local mechanic told me he couldn't do it, because the part has to be specific to my vehicle. Is this true? I don't trust the dealership in all honesty.
  • gchybridgchybrid Member Posts: 2
    Sharing another dirty little secret of the dealership battery repairs:

    I have 2003 Civic Hybrid. IMA light came on about six months ago. I thought that it would cost me a lot of money to get it replaced. But I was fortunate because in California the battery warranty is for 10yrs. or 150000 miles. Dealer replaced IMA battery for free. I was very happy. But then last month, IMA light came back on. Took my car back to the dealer. They said that it's the battery again but we will replace for free since it's not 10 yrs. yet.

    Then I asked, why did the battery blew up in 6 months? It's supposed to last for years. He said that the replacement batteries are REFURBISHED not new.

    Please make sure to ask dealers whether they are putting new IMA batteries or refurbished.
  • cellwhisperercellwhisperer Member Posts: 2
    Hi, missed what your 2003 HCH symptoms were before the computer upgrade. My 2003 has been great (~100K) but for the last year, it mostly doesn't start unless I hook up a battery charger. When I add the black clip I hear a click near the hood latch. I hear that every time. And the car starts immediately. One day I was weeding near the car(not driven for 2 days) and I heard multiple clicks under the hood. Talk about bizarre. When I took it in for inspection in January, they offered me a Honda battery with a 100-month warranty for $90 installed so I bought it. The car still has the same problem. Can it be an ignition issue? Appreciate any ideas.
  • gremlin1gremlin1 Member Posts: 6
    My 2000 Insight did not need a battery replacement for 6 years. Then it needed one every year - actually 5 battery replacements were made under warranty. The 10 year warranty arrived and the battery went out the next month. A quote was given to replace the battery of $2,400. and the warranty on the battery was 12 months or 12,000 miles whichever came first. We probably got rebuilt batteries on the 5 batteries we got. The dealer tried to blame it on our driver habits. However, our driving habits for the first 6 years were the same as the last 4 years. We have had it with hybrids and Honda. Still driving my old 1985 Honda Civic thought and still getting the original milesage. The mileage in the Insight was 72 mpg when we got it, but after a recall for replacing the engine control module - our mileage dropped by 20 mpg.
  • tenorguytenorguy Member Posts: 2
    I have a 2003 Civic Hybrid, which I bought used (30,000 mi.) in 2005. The IMA battery is no longer working, and the car is hard to handle sometimes. I drove it around a corner Saturday and the car totally stopped. I was able to restart it immediately, though. A private mechanic told me that it may not be worth getting a new IMA battery ($3500+) since the car has 150,000 miles on it.

    What are your thoughts on this, helpers?
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    I wouldn't do it unless the car is in really good shape and I could get it repaired for $2000 or less with an expectation of at least another 60000 miles.
  • tenorguytenorguy Member Posts: 2
    Thanks for your input. A new IMA battery would cost much more than $2000. I might get the AC fixed and keep driving the car while saving some money for a down payment on a new one.
  • jlevers1jlevers1 Member Posts: 1
    Anyone run into this issue? I have a 2005 civic hybrid with 174K miles on it. I had the IMA battery replaced a little over a year ago when it was still covered under warranty. This morning, the IMA light came on. Any thoughts on what the case could be?
  • titanjefftitanjeff Member Posts: 1
    I've been looking for a Civic for my daughter to take to college for weeks. Today, I see a HCH available and quickly come to Edmund's to get an idea of it's value. The one in the ad is around $1,400 less.

    I contact the private owner who tells me it's all good. No IMA issues or other concerns.

    But after reading this and other thread about $3,000 IMA replacements and/or a major drop in MPG, I'm somewhat spooked.

    I guess I'm looking to avoid getting a :lemon:. Any advice if you were looking to purchase an '06 HCH? Should I make sure it's checked out by a Honda dealer who can plug it in and check how much battery life remains or are there other ways to tell.

    This has 114,000. Thanks.
  • inmyhumbleopinmyhumbleop Member Posts: 24
    There is no such thing as an 06 to 08 HCH with no IMA issues. The battery does not hold a charge, and is upgraded with software to minimize the use of the battery, so the car runs on gas only over half the time. Plus it's actually dangerous due to unreliable acceleration. Google Civic Hybrid safety, etc., and I'm sure you'll come up with more info.
    I would go with a regular CIVIC even if it costs more or you need to buy and older model. I know of several people who SOLD their HCH's because their teenager was going to start driving and they weren't comfortable with them driving their car.
  • calgary5calgary5 Member Posts: 5
    I was seeing the same symptoms as tinkerick. mostly showed up at colder temperatures. We started at message #1357. So far, this spring and summer the car has been running normal.
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    These cars do have battery problems. I have found that as long as the battery is good the car performs well. My first battery lasted 90K miles. I have about 20K on my second battery. I generally get around 50 mpg. However, it is a crap shoot as to how long the battery will perform properly and I am not sure there is a good test to predict that. The best insurance would to get one with a replaced battery and extended warranty that is transferable. My second battery has a 36K mile three year warranty. Not great, but offers some peace of mind.
  • joepicardjoepicard Member Posts: 1
    Hmmmm. Same thing happened to my 2004. Last October the IMA battery was replaced and this weekend the checkl engine/IMA lights came on. Just got word back from the shop that they'll be replacing the IMA battery again. They claim I haven't been driving it enough. They said they will give me driving guidelines when they return it. I put 4,000 miles on it in the 8 months since the battery was replaced. Mostly local driving (short trips) but they told me that could be the problem. They were saying I needed to drive it for 30 minutes at least once a week. Anyone else receiving similar 'advice'? Sounds screwy to me, but maybe there is something about these hybrids I don't fully appreciate.

    Joe
  • vidarvidar Member Posts: 18
    edited July 2012
    Had the same problem about 1 1/2 years ago. Long story short: the relay for the air conditioner compressor clutch was stuck in the 'on' position. Clutch stayed energized, killed the 12 volt battery. This also drained the hybrid battery pack. The clicking is the clutch cycling in and out as the 12 volt battery degrades. A possible way to verify this is with ignition on and/or car running, cycle the A/C switch. Should hear corresponding cycling of the A/C clutch if relay is good. A $14 replacement from Auto Zone fixed it.

    Problem was masked by the IMA light coming on, but earlier posts from others (around #770) pointed to the A/C relay. Currently having another 12 volt dead battery problem, but definately not a stuck relay this time.

    One possible affect of a constantly engaged clutch is that the windings may go bad. Original relay problem fixed about 115,000 miles. A/C clutch and compressor replaced about 188,000 miles. Car currently has 193,000 miles with front wheel bearings needing changed.
  • bryan772bryan772 Member Posts: 6
    2009 Civic Hybrid

    Before the update this car was fun to drive and solid on even the toughest switchbacks up or downhill. Seamless transmission that kept the gear ratio just right all the time. Very smooth ride on hilly roads, uphill caused a slight gradual increase in RPM with out gear hunting then back to overdrive. (Sliced bread all over again). Able to get onto the 75 MPH freeways without much effort. Once up to speed the engine was almost silent the tachometer sat at 1800 w/ AC on and 2-3 passengers. I consistently saw 52-56 MPG even on highways with hills.

    Then 2 years later, "software update" was applied that threw all this out the window. I read many posts about decreases in MPG after the update. I think the gear ratio post update has a lot to do with it.

    Since the update was applied, the gear ratio has changed big time for the worse. At 50 MPH or higher the RPMs remain high even when up to speed. On 75MPH flat freeway the car stays at 2800 - 3500 RPM the whole time and makes for a noisy ride. Feels as if the last transmission gear or overdrive was removed if it had been a regular transmission.

    Now this car is a nightmare to drive on the same freeways/highways and has endangered me and my passengers numerous times near any inclines. Several times the updated car was not able to maintain or increase speed on inclines. Since the car is already at 3-4K RPM to maintain speed, you need to push the car to the red line to stay with traffic uphill. Even then it still falls behind on some roads @6500K RPM! Trucks and 18 wheelers pass me. Plus keeping the car at or near the red line for 3-5 minutes at a time can't be good for the engine but after the update its the only way to keep the car going up some hills. Same roads before the update were no problem.

    The higher RPMs greatly reduce the gas mileage on the same roads to the 30's even with no passengers and A/C off. The best I've seen is 42MPG on the highway, mostly slower highways @55 MPH. As for 65 or 75 MPH roads I've and as low as 27 averages. The range of this car per tank is about half what it was before as the car burns so much more gas at high RPM.

    Honda messed up the CVT gear ratio with this update big time and refuses to take responsibility or correct the problem. All I want is my car like it was when I paid a $6K premium for the "hybrid" abilities. Instead I have a car that is unsafe to drive on the freeway and can't even get gas mileage higher than the 06 regular Civic before it. At this rate this will probably be my last Honda...

    Anyone else notice higher RPM at highway speeds after getting the software update?

    47City/55Hwy before update
    Freeway Range ~620 miles
    200 mile round trip to nearby city = 3/4 tank left

    45City/33Hwy after update
    Freeway Range ~350 miles
    Same 200 mile trip = 1/3 tank left
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    After the update my tack is 2000rpm at 68 mph on a level road. Not sure what it was before the update. Seems like there is something not right about your update. Why not get them to redo it?
  • lowbridlowbrid Member Posts: 5
    Bryan,
    Have you gone back to the dealer? Something is not right! It was my understanding that the update was only for the 2006-2008 models and that the 2009-2011 refresh models already had the "update" applied at the factory. (Can someone else on forum confirm).

    You did have awesome mpg before the issue. Are yo a hypermiler?

    I too have a 2009 hybrid but my mileage was always between 37-44 depending how much hwy vs. city we drive.

    Can you give us more details about your car such as miles, tire pressure, and mantainace. And dealer response. Likely not the issue, but have you had the CVT transmission fluid changed on schedule?

    Good luck.
  • vidarvidar Member Posts: 18
    edited July 2012
    Update on the 12 volt problem. The standard battery went bad. A combination of age (4 1/2 yrs) and heat (a week in 105 degrees + driving) had the cells degrade into a lead paste. Held voltage but no amps or charge after 18-20 hours. The person that assisted me in the A/C relay troubleshooting posts as Ogre GEV. Saved me a lot of money and frustration.

    Also, replying to Bryan (message post #1393), my hybrid is a 2005 model. This year also fell under the software update umbrella. Fortunally l already had issues with the local dealer, and will never take the car in to them for maintenance. My preferred dealer is about 100 miles away, and never had time to get to them before I started reading about bad things on the update. So my vehicle software is as from the factory.

    That said, it currently runs 3000 rpm at 72 mph. Mileage is about 38 mpg. Has dropped from a steady 42 mpg (with A/C running) running mostly at 60 mph or higher. This nearing a CVT fluid change, engine oil change and probably added friction from front wheel bearigs going bad (193,000 odometer reading). Spark plugs new at about 170,000 miles

    Still running original IMA battery pack, and noticing more cycling down to about 1/2 charge now. Charge indicator kicks in 3 bars at steady speeds, then up to about 3/4 charge after about 2 miles when charge indicator goes neutral.

    The hybrid system for the 2005 model year did two things: contributed up to 60% torque to the gas engine during acceleration, and the option (driver selectable) of shutting down the engine, thus also the A/C, at stops from 10 mph or greater. So for steady highway speed the IMA battery never comes into play. But once the computer is reprogrammed to 'baby' the battery, the fuel air mixture is richened hoping that more gas delivered will make a weak engine perform better.

    There has to be a baseline software that can be loaded back into the control module. As each dealership takes on the character of the owner, it may take some calling around to find a shop willing or capable of doing just that. Also, and this may be cost prohibitive, find out if an off-the-shelf replacement module comes factory loaded with the baseline software, or if service bulletins require updates on all replacement modules.
  • bryan772bryan772 Member Posts: 6
    Hi,

    The 09 HCH was bought new w/ 36 miles on it. Now has 36,500 miles. Regularly serviced, Synthetic oil and got oil changes done ~30% on the maintenance minder. Never let it go to 15 or when the red wrench appears. CVT fluid replaced last oil change ~32000 miles. Had Dunlop LRR tires originally, just replaced them w/ Michelin Primacy MXV4's. Took slight 2-3 MPG hit but quieter ride aside from the high revving engine. Tire pressure I think is 32, the dealer usually took care of that for me and I didn't want to risk blowouts by elevating the pressure. Also last oil change they found the lead acid battery was reporting weak and replaced that. (In general car batteries need to be replaced every few years with the hot summers here.)

    No issues until 18K miles, the IMA light came on. 2 months before the IMA the car was parked w/ 5-6 bars. Shortly after starting the car, the battery emptied out then charged about 4 miles later. Some days it even cycled 2 times in the 18 mile commute.

    Took it to the dealer the day after the IMA light came on. They said the battery had "deteriorated" and was not able to keep a charge. Battery was replaced and all was just great for several months, no more battery cycles at start.

    The commute is 18 miles each way w/ a gradual elevation change from ~2930 feet to 2530 feet, no highways. 60-70 mpg drive into town, 35-50 on the way back depending on traffic & A/C. Weekly sat at 44-48. Still does close to that even now but closer to 40-44 range as it revs higher in general after the update. Generally drive light on acceleration and coast to red lights when possible. Got good at maximizing the electric pull and regen.

    The update did make one improvement, it no longer lets the battery go empty w/ auto-stop and A/C on. That little electric compressor drained the IMA to where it was empty when the engine started up it took off like a slug and had to floor it to get it going. Doesn't happen like that after the update since the engine goes back on before that happens.

    Then in preparation for a long drive with family I brought it to the dealer for an early oil change and to have all the belts & fluids checked and I asked them to see if there were any pending updates for the IMA. Being a computer guy I figured it wouldn't hurt to see if there are any updates to lessen the chance of another battery failure. This was last March 2011 ~26000 miles.

    They found 3 software updates and applied them. They let me walk over to they guy applying the patch and I asked him what the patch did etc. I was told that the update changed how the auto stop and SOC (State of Charge) works. He also mentioned "slightly" higher revs on the highway. I didn't think much of it at the time but its much more than slightly in hindsight.

    During that drive, there was several occasions going up or down hills where the car had a hard time getting up hills. Sounded like I was driving in Nascar but shedding speed if it was uphill. Other family members who shared the long drive who have driven the car before the update also noticed the problem too.

    The Run Around

    Took the car to the dealer it was purchased from 3 times with no luck. They tried applying the update again w/ no change. Took it on the freeway w/ a laptop hooked up to it claimed they didn't see anything wrong. They also didn't exactly take the car out of city limits where the speed limit goes to 75 with hills long enough to see the problem and kept downplaying it saying that I didn't know what I was talking about basically the car is fine.

    Took the car to the other dealer in town, they took it on the freeway and didn't see any issues. Called Honda CS a year ago. They set up an appt with a manager who gave me the run around and said that there is nothing they could do and to go back to the dealer. Back and fourth 3x.

    Both the dealer said that they can't put the original firmware back and that they didn't have a later version of the firmware. Still a year and half later the problem still exists. Thankfully my commute is all surface streets and the issue only gets bad with hills on the highway otherwise I would have traded this car in last summer. The gear ratio appears to have been tweaked to rev higher to make up for the less power from the electric motor. I can imagine many folks don't notice this particular problem as some states don't have 75 MPH speed limits on the interstate or hills and mountains nearby to drive though. If those conditions exits, this car just can't handle them as well as before the update. Average RPM on a highway with hills is ~3-6K where it had been ~2-4K. There is another dealership about 100 miles from here that I have not tried yet but considering it. (prolly burn up almost a whole tank getting there)

    The 2 in the area don't seem to be competent enough to genuinely do something about the issue or properly escalate it and Honda CS doesn't help much either. Good times.
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    I think your best bet is to file a complaint with the BBB and go to arbitration if necessary. That is the only way you will get a fair hearing.
  • inmyhumbleopinmyhumbleop Member Posts: 24
    sorry Bryan,
    You're stuck. I have an '07 HCH and now I'm used to it. Been there, done that - your story is mine 2 years ago. But that doesn't mean Honda is off the hook for their fraudulent actions. Google "rego v. Honda" or e-mail me at k4dwood@yahoo.com.
    Kathy
  • selinzselinz Member Posts: 11
    I have an 07 with 198K. IMA replaced free at 140K (just before the california 150K emissions warranty). I have always found that the RPMs are much higher using cruise control. Whenever I go up a big hill, I kick it out of cruise and always keep the rpms under 3.5K. It'd go much higher with cruise on. On one hill that i have to take every day, I will sometimes slow to 53 which is no big deal since the speed limit is 55. If I feel like working the engine harder, I can go faster but it kills the gas mileage to go fast up hills (for all cars, not just hybrids). Overall, I think the firmware update was an improvement, since I'm now never completely out of juice. I do wish the cruise control wasn't so agressive with the RPMs though..
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    In hilly terrain cruise control is not a fuel efficient option. Watching your rpm is one of the best ways to drive fuel efficiently. In taking off I try to never go above 2000 rpm if possible.
  • thereigo2thereigo2 Member Posts: 5
    This update also broke my car. I have experienced exactly the same thing, and have read post after post of the same complaint. So far, Honda is not taking responsibility for this, but IT IS their fault. My gas mileage as dropped 6 to 10 mpg, and I have NO POWER. Every time I get on an expressway I am risking my life. I guess it is going to take someone being killed for Honda to be forced to take responsibility. I have only had my 2009 HCH for a little over a year and owe more than I can trade it for, so I am stuck with an inferior car with worse gas mileage than many new non-hybrids and is dangerous. This is my 4th Honda, second HCH, but doubt I will purchase a Honda in the future. We need to get up a petition or something to try to force Honda to do something about this BEFORE SOMEONE DIES.
  • rosie2006rosie2006 Member Posts: 22
    As you can see this has been going on for a number of years, mine is an 06, went to crap after the updates. Same issue, especially if the air conditioner is on and trying to get across a lane or on the freeway. Honda does not care that this is a safety hazard! I will never buy another Honda.
  • thereigo2thereigo2 Member Posts: 5
    Still bottom line is Honda broke our cars. Period. If it were just one or two that have this problem after the update that would be one thing, but there area MANY!
  • thereigo2thereigo2 Member Posts: 5
    You are very lucky with yours and apparently not had the update done. I had it done as did many others and the complaints are all the same, greatly reduced gas mileage, no power, random auto stop, lack of assist. My dealership after they did the IMA service update, replaced the IMA battery, replaced the transmission and it still is having these problems. It DID NOT have these problems before the update. I loved my car, now I hate it and am stuck with a "Hybrid" that gets worse gas mileage than non-hybrids.
  • markrockmarkrock Member Posts: 6
    Same here for my '07. Loved my car for the first 3 years, then abruptly I had no power one day pulling out onto a 2-lane hwy with a car coming at me. Registered written complaints with Honda of America and with the Texas Attorney General. When I took it to the dealer, they did the software update, and not only is it NOT better, but the gas mileage is worse. The engine rarely shuts off now at stops. The dealer said they couldn't find anything wrong with its power.
    It's been over a year now, and I've gotten used to the lack of power but still pisses me off I can't drive like normal people, and it can still be scary at times. I would like to get another vehicle, but can't afford to take the hit. It goes without saying that I'll never buy a Honda on principle.
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    I have an 06 and seemed to have fared better than most with the update. I have noticed that my mpg drops off when the charge is under four bars which happens for short periods of time occasionally. When that happens I make it a point to drive more conservatively. I usually average around 50 mpg.
  • dowjddowjd Member Posts: 14
    Ha, I have both of you beaten. I bought a 2009 HCH brand new, Oct 09 IMA light, software update, poor performance (48mpg down to 39mpg). Dec 09 IMA again, Honda replaced battery, still poor performance (37mpg). July 10 "New" battery poor performance. Jan 2011 IMA light, software update, still poor performance (32mpg). July 2012 Check engine, IMA battery bad, Honda replaced.

    So, a three year old vehicle is on its third IMA battery. WOW. Yet I still get the Honda song and dance. Great service.
  • dowjddowjd Member Posts: 14
    Please, stay away from any HCH. RUN. DO NOT even consider buying one. Save yourself the misery.

    I have a 2009 HCH with 69,000 miles and I have had two batteries fail. Honda has replaced them, but it is pretty obvious the batteries are inferior.

    STAY AWAY, STAY AWAY, STAY AWAY
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    Could some of the poor mileage problems described here be due to transmission problems?
  • therosctherosc Member Posts: 2
    I purchased a 2010 Honda Civic Hybrid in Jan. of 2011. Car ran great! I got the mpg up to 45.9. Then I got a warning light for the IMA system at about 36, 000 miles. I took the car to the
    dealership and they said the Hybrid battery was bad. Since it was under warranty (8 years, 80,000 miles as per federal mandate) it was replaced. Since then the car has steadily declined in mpg and performance. The system is not assisting the engine as previously done and my mpg is down to 38.4 and declining. I took it back to the dealership and they cannot find anything wrong. I am so disappointed that I am considering selling the car. I may also look for possible legal action if I cannot get any satisfaction from Honda.
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    I have read other cases similar to this. Don't know why this tends to happen. To my knowledge the batteries are replaced with refurbished ones, not new ones. Maybe that has something to do with this scenario.
  • heather_07hchheather_07hch Member Posts: 28
    I traded my 2007 HCH in a little over a year ago. Honda offered me $6,000, and VW gave me $10,000. I drove away as fast as possible before they realized they were crazy. No matter what the dealership tells you, or what they do to your car, you will never have the car you purchased. I loved my car for the first two years. I averaged 45-50 mpg without any regard to my driving habits. After the update and new battery, I couldn't hypermile and get anywhere over 38. I am now getting 40-43 hwy and 35-37 city in my Jetta Sportwagen TDI. I can actually pull out into an intersection without fear of safely getting across. I can use the AC and still merge onto the interstate at over 40 mph. I spent almost two years trying to figure out a way to get back the car I bought. Honda wouldn't budge, and I was no longer willing to compromise my family's safety. I'd rather pay for a car that lives up to the promises of its manufacturer. I am thoroughly satisfied with the fuel economy and performance of my diesel car. I am so very thankful I managed to get rid of my car before it put me and my family in a dangerous situation.
  • mabecanemabecane Member Posts: 46
    edited August 2012
    You did great Heather, that was a good move. I'm also contemplating getting rid of my 06 HCH. My IMA battery gets so low after sitting for a couple of days that the starter now cranks the engine to start the engine, that's the first time I ever heard the starter in this car in over 6 years. The electric motor usually cranks the engine. I now have close to 100k on the odo. I'm hoping for the IMA to kick the bucket so they(Honda) replace the battery, then I will sell the car. I'm looking at the Chevy Cruze, no more electric cars for me. How many miles did you have on your odo when you sold it? Are you happy with the Jetta? No more Honda for me!Bye.
  • vageologistsvageologists Member Posts: 2
    I hope this is within the rules of the site. I have a 2003 Honda Hybrid (standard trans.). Loved it until the software upgrade, which cut my mileage. I started having the IMA light come on intermittently. When the light was on, I took it back to the dealership where I bought it, Fairfax Honda. They were rude and unhelpful, telling me I'd have to pay for a new battery without even looking at the car. I then took it to Koons Honda in Manassas, VA. They said they'd replace it for free and promptly made an appointment to do so. Kudos to Koons! I'm now getting 43-45mph around the DC area in pretty heavy traffic.
  • vidarvidar Member Posts: 18
    First, with the CVT transmission, it is a necessity to change transmission fluid at less than 30,000 miles. Slippage starts becoming noticable at around 25,000 miles. Also after a fluid change notice better response within 1 mile or less. CVT fluid from Honda is around $9 a qt, and takes 3.5 qts for a fluid change.
    Second, never having got the software mods since originally purchased, my 2005 HCH gets around 38 mpg after the A/C compressor was replaced at 192,000 miles. Before the compressor went bad got 42 mpg with AC running. With the AC turned off can still get 50 mpg with moderate driving below 60 mph.
    The story with the A/C is that it is an original Honda part, but not from a Civic Hybrid. My guess is that there is some low-friction design in the HCH specific part to get better mileage from the engine.
  • Ogre_GEVOgre_GEV Member Posts: 263
    The software mods don't exist for your car. They only apply to 2006+ vehicles.

    50 mpg is good, but put 44 lbs in your tires and you should be able to get 60 or so. I have a 2004 CVT and it's the same car as yours.
  • gnatggnatg Member Posts: 7
    edited August 2012
    Sounds like your luck was worse than mine. I bought a 2006 Civic Hybrid in April 2006, and in August 2010, I got a notice to go to the deal for a software update. Since then, my mileage dropped from 40 mpg to between 25-28 mpg. I wrote everyone I could, including the president of American Honda; and I even met with the factory representative. Several honest Honda dealers told me it was the IMA technology; Honda doesn't know how to fix the problem of degraded mileage. I have had two recent visits to my Honda dealer because my "small" battery light came on, and on the last one, they said my IMA battery needs replacement (I am at approx. 67,000 miles). Thank goodness, it is still under my extended warranty, but my mileage is still very low, AND I WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER HONDA NOR RECOMMEND ANYONE ELSE DOES!!!!!!
  • nyhondanyhonda Member Posts: 13
    Same experience as you had with the same year HCH. I gave up in Feb and traded the junker on a 2011 Prius. I think all of us can speak out against Honda actually as are best weapon.
  • mabecanemabecane Member Posts: 46
    In the last few weeks my 06 only starts with the starter if I let the car sits more than 24 hours.
    I wonder if my IMA will finally die soon. Last January the faulty code showed up, then the dealer erased it and installed the bloody patch. I still have 4 years warranty on the IMA. The sooner the battery gets replaced the sooner I sell the car. That's if anyone wants to buy a 06 HCH.
    Honda really screwed that one up. :lemon:
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    Same thing happened to me. First, they did the software upgrade and then they replaced the battery. Everything is back to normal now and I am averaging 51 mpg. I recommend you get rid of it about 3-6 months before your warranty expires.
  • snaumansnauman Member Posts: 4
    I found this post online if you have enough time & patient to read it , then I thik it will be helpfull
    :D:D :P

    Honda IMA batteries can last a very long time, but they do not typically outlast the car. With the ten year IMA warranty expiring on the earliest Honda Insights, and the warranty void on Salvage cars, I hope this information will be useful to some EcoModders. You can repair your own IMA battery for $100-350 including equipment and replacement cells, instead of paying someone $1000 to do it for you, or dropping $3000 at the dealership.

    Warning: This post is longer than most, and parts of it may not be of interest to you.
    Warning: High voltage is dangerous. Read the section on safety, and don't work on things you're not comfortable with.

    Do I have an IMA battery problem?

    You can tell how much usable capacity the Insight's battery has by observing the range of its state of charge (SoC) gauge. A healthy battery will move through the entire range. As the battery degrades, it will move through fewer LCD bars on the gauge. A check engine light will come on with the P1447 code once the battery's capacity is reduced to about a third of what it was when it left the factory, which corresponds to a battery that moves through only about 5-6 bars on the gauge. You may want to repair your IMA battery even if you don't have a check engine light, just to obtain longer-lasting assist and regen.

    What goes wrong with IMA batteries?

    Battery imbalance: Honda IMA batteries consist of a large number of NiMH cells in series. Due to unequal rates of self-discharge, some of the cells will have a higher or lower state of charge than others. This is easy to correct, but failure to do so results in diminished battery capacity, and can damage the cells that are too high or too low.

    Cell degradation: One of the treatable problems that diminishes the cell's capacity is the formation of nickel dendrites in the cell. Rapidly charging and discharging a cell through its full range can help restore its performance.

    So how do you fix an IMA battery?

    Battery state of charge imbalance is easy to treat. If you take a NiMH cell that is fully charged, then continue to apply charging current to it, it will convert the extra current into heat. Provided that the current is small so the cell doesn't overheat, this doesn't appear to damage the cell. Thus if you apply a little charging current to an imbalanced battery, the cells that are high will peak first, and begin to convert the current into heat while the other cells catch up.

    You can build a grid charger/balancer for around $100. Insight guru Mike Dabrowski came up with this design, which is an adjustable 174V-210V, 350mA constant current power supply. Leave it charging your battery (with the battery fan running) for 36 hours or so, and it will top off ALL your cells, restoring state of charge balance. You can do this without removing the battery from the car, and it may be enough to get you back on the road.

    You should occasionally have the car run the battery through its full range of SoC. Go heavy on the gas until it's depleted (an assist/regen disable toggle switch, or some hills, will help). Then let the car charge the battery until it's full. Do not do this with an imbalanced pack.

    Advanced methods

    If these things are not sufficient, you can get a more thorough repair by removing the battery from the car and disassembling it. An Insight's pack of 120 NiMH D-cells breaks up into 20 sticks of 6 cells each. Using a battery charger/discharger/analyzer like the MRC Super Brain 989 ($150), you can charge and discharge each stick through its full range. Write down the discharge capacity of each stick, and keep cycling each stick until the capacity stops improving. Once you have finished cycling each stick, charge it fully and write down the date and time. Come back in a week and charge it again, and record how much energy it took to charge. That is that stick's weekly self-discharge rate.

    You'll probably find some of your sticks have an abnormally high or low rate of self discharge. These are the sticks that are causing the pack to go out of balance. If you grid charge monthly, you can live with that problem indefinitely. You may also find that while most of your sticks have 5500-6500mAh capacity, there may be one or two that are stubbornly lower. These weak cells will hold back the entire pack. You will need to replace the weak sticks. A professional repair involves building a pack out of used sticks whose capacity and rate of self-discharge matches.

    I pulled a battery from the junkyard and cycled each of its sticks. The chart at the top right is the most important one. You want all your cells to match as closely as possible in terms of self-discharge, and the performance of the pack will be the same as that of its weakest cell. This particular junkyard pull was probably a fairly new battery that didn't need anything more than a good, long grid charging.

    You many be wondering what settings to use on the Super Brain 989. You want to go as fast as you can without overheating the cells, so I chose 7A charge, 10A discharge, and I didn't need to run the battery fan, with ambient temperature at 62°F. The Insight's cells are 6500mAh nominal, I used 5mV per cell peak detection, and 0.9VPC cutoff.

    How to access the Insight's battery

    First, remove the key from the ignition. This de-energizes the power cables leading from the battery to the inverter and DC/DC converter. Second, remove the rear carpet from the car. Remove two bolts from the little door at the center of the IPU lid to access the service disconnect switch. Throw that switch to Off, which means the battery is no longer a complete circuit. There's still dangerous voltage differences under the plastic covers on the junction board, so treat the whole battery with respect. The IPU lid is held on by a dozen T30 bolts and a dozen 10mm hex head bolts. Remove it, and you'll be looking at this:

    The battery module is on the right, with its fan in the foreground, its computers on top, and its junction board on the left. If you wish to attach a grid charger, you must attach its + terminal to the "hot" side of the high voltage relay or bypass relay (that's the bottom), and its - terminal to the battery's - terminal.

    If you want to remove the battery module, it's held on by six bolts, four cables, and six wire harness connectors. You'll need to move the car's center bulkhead aside to get at some of the bolts, which involves removing some interior trim. If you'd like to disassemble a battery module, it's pretty self-explanatory, but remove the contact grid (which puts the cells in series) from the side of the battery opposite the junction board before you do anything else. Once you do that, the battery is pretty much safe, with no more than 17V anywhere.

    Warnings and Safety

    Foremost, know what you're doing, and don't
  • valaxmanvalaxman Member Posts: 1
    How did you get them to replace a battery from 2003? How many miles do you have? When did you but it? I am in Northern Virginia and I have received notice that I need the software upgrade for my 2005 HCH. I have the IMA light (on for a year) and error codes (P2000). My problem is that the car won't pass emissions with error code - but I don't want to get upgrade. Looks like i have no choice - but I'm very happy with the way the car runs now - getting about 43 in everyday driving. Does anyone know what Honda claims this upgrade will do? besides fix error codes?
  • Ogre_GEVOgre_GEV Member Posts: 263
    P2000 is a failed catalytic converter and has nothing to do with your IMA light.

    Find out what other codes you have that may be lighting the IMA light. Your 2005 IMA battery is warrantied until sometime later this year if you have less than 80,000 miles. California vehicles are 10 year, 150,000 miles. If you have a P1447, P1449 or some other errors, you are eligible for a replacement battery.

    The software update for a P1420 or P2000 reprograms the car to be less sensitive to the efficiency of the catalytic converter and it may actually correct the problem (turn off the check-engine light).

    Lastly, 2003-2005 Civics are different than 2006-2011 Civics. The 2003-2005 models do not have a problem with software upgrades, just the 2006-2011 cars do.
  • diabdiab Member Posts: 1
    I bought 2 honda civic 2006 hybrid
    both got the same malfinctions:
    1-they could not climb a hill if they stopped while climbing, i.e. they couldnot resume climbing after the stop!

    2-when autostop runs the aircondition fails

    I asked a freind who owns civic hybrid 2008 and he said that he is suffering the same with his car!!!

    it seems that this is general problem in honda civic hybrid 2006-2009
    any body knows the solution??
  • bryan772bryan772 Member Posts: 6
    The problem you described is very similar to what I experienced with my 09 HCH. It had an update applied around the time the battery failed and now I'm lucky to get over 38 MPG in town and over 35 on the highway. Had 47/55 for the first 2 years. Check out my previous posts on this thread about the higher than usual RPM and different gear ratio. Does your HCH seem to rev higher than it used to?

    Going on 18 months of back and fourth with the dealer & Honda with no resolution. Honda CS is useless and has a very poor escalation procedure (non existant I should say) The "case managers" are a joke and refuse to do anything to help. I submitted a BBB report against them but doubt the issue will get fixed but might as well make the complaint public. I plan on opening a flickr account with screenshots of the problem occurring too.

    No more Honda cars for me after this bad experience.
  • gremlin1gremlin1 Member Posts: 6
    Diab and others - please let me know if anyone starts a class aciton suit. I would join in.

    I read of my first Prius battery replacement in all places "The Costco Magazine". The car was 11 years old if I remember. The dealer quoted a price of $2700+. The person who wrote the letter said that he contacted his Costco membership and found that if he ordered his replacement battery through them, he would get it for $500 less than the dealer quoter. Hope this bit of info might help someone out of warranty needing a new battery.

    I got taken to the cleaners financially and emotionally on the Honda Hybrid that I bought.
  • missdismayedmissdismayed Member Posts: 16
    When did they make the replacement for you? The batteries became Honda's proprietary property not too long ago - more ($) for them, less for everyone else, even less ($) for the owners...What was the charge, please, from hybridrevolt.com and what is their warranty? Is the warranty owner-transferable?

    Sorry for the question-filled reply. I'm a bit suspicious after my history with Honda, the dealer, and my vehicle. Thank you for your information.
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