Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
We have been sold down the river by Honda on these cars. I just sold by Honda Civic hybrid and couldn't be happier to not be dealing with the sluggish performance and defective batteries.
Anyone else get this e-mail?
Also, my battery has been at 4 bars for the last week and never has a "recal." It's like the car reverted back to the old software before the update. Could this be because of the drop in temperature?
I suggest you go ahead and do that. The more people that complain, the more pressure the NHTSA places on Honda, ad the greater the chances that Honda admits that they knowingly dismissed an underlying issue with the car.
This is great news that NHTSA appears to be responding to our complaints. I sent a letter to my congressman and his office said the best thing I could do was file a complaint with NHTSA. I hope Honda gets raked over the coals.
Anyway, the relay has been reinstalled for almost two weeks, no dead 12v or IMA batteries, no warning/fault lights. Fuel milage has remained around 48-49 mpg at interstate highway speeds..
This took a lot of troubleshooting, but an inexpensive and easy fix for my problem. A good way to start before letting a dealer look into the matter ($$$). Again, my Honda has never had the software update, so I do not know if that software was a 'fix' to the lawsuit a few years back about Honda odometers fudging on the mileage readout vs. true mileage.
Also, did they provide you with instructions?
Question for the group: If you could get a regular '11 Civic DX-VP for $14k or a Civic LX for $15k and assuming KBB trade-in on the 07 HCH for about $12k would you do it?! My friend got an internet quote from a local dealer with those prices but I find them hard to believe. Not to mention I'm sure they'll give me a bad trade-in value...
I sold my 06 HCH with 60K for 7K to a used car dealer. The sale price was $900 below the KBB fair value. The bumper needed to be replaced so it was not a huge surprise. I did not trade it in for a new Honda so I might have done better. I'm glad not be driving my HCH anymore but I took a huge loss on it. I dream of Honda being hauled into court and forced to pay us big bucks for their lousy and unsafe HCHs.
Here's my experience (and I live in a cold climate): I have been experiencing declining gas mileage since 6 months after purchase of the vehicle. It has gotten worse over the past year to the point where I am getting about 75% of the gas mileage that was "estimated" on the sticker. And it will certainly drop further after my recent experience. Last week, the IMA alert and the Engine light both went on. I took the car to the dealer. I was informed by service that Honda had issued a "software upgrade" (Bulletin 09-025) to resolve the issue I was having. The dealer didn't seem to be convinced that this was really the problem and when I questioned him further about the battery failure issues of earlier models of this car he told me to call American Honda. On the invoice for the repair he typed "Need to reinspect vehicle if IMA light returns". That wasn't a very comforting repair comment. So I did call American Honda and got no meaningful explanation to the question from the frontline and requested that a supervisor call me back. Meanwhile, I have been driving the car this past week and the gas mileage hit an all time low - 29.3 miles per gallon! Just prior to writing this message I did get a call from the supervisor at American Honda. The thrust of the conversation was that "yes the software upgrade made to my car would decrease my gas mileage, but it would extend the life of the batteries". What????? So the batteries aren't lasting as long as they should and have obvious issues, they won't recall the 2009 batteries and the consumer suffers by getting poor gas mileage/ higher than projected operating costs.
Thanks Honda. I believe you could do better. I certainly know that I can - with a different manufacturer!
And what about resale value? If used car buyers know that the batteries in these vehicles are likely to fail shortly after purchase, they won't pay as much for the cars -- if they'd even buy them at all. And if they were going to purchase them for their great gas mileage, all they have to do is push a button to see MPG over the life of the vehicle to date and they wouldn't be interested in these cars. All in all, we've been screwed.
Any guidance would be appreciated. I am willing to pursue the matter further.
I'm thinking that the best course of action, besides contacting the EPA, the FTC and the Illinois attorney general, is to file a small claims court action. The limits in Illinois are $10,000 - the premium on the purchase of the hybrid over a similar non-hybrid Civic wasn't that much. So I'm thinking about computing what would be a "fair" settlement for a car that is rapidly losing value and filing a suit individually. I shouldn't have to do this, but I believe that Honda is forcing me into it. If everyone took similar action in states where the limitations permitted such suits, it might make Honda think twice about continuing the sale of DEFECTIVE vehicles without offering to legitimately repair them.
But here is the bottom line to anyone considering the purchase of a Honda automobile: Honda has become a BAD company. Very BAD. They do not stand behind their product and that is just plain WRONG. And I will continue to state that fact wherever and whenever possible. DO NOT BUY A HONDA. They are no longer a symbol of quality in the automobile industry.
And that is sad, very sad......
But it was all very very odd...originally, my car was sitting out front. They drove it from the service check-in and parked it there. Then they went out and started it. They said they had no problem but poof it disappeared from site. I pick it five hours later when they tell me they cannot duplicate the problem but it has an odor of something being done and that sort of odd glue smell (very vague) you sometimes get when they do something with the IMA. :surprise: Anyhow, I leave there with what I refer to as my "personal hybrid piece of junk" and never the rest of the day see two bars, the IMA is like fully-charged and happy and my mileage for the rest of this day was about 4MPG higher than it has been. The mileage had decreased after the software patch was installed to the point I was thinking about getting rid of the car even though I really bought it because of the PZEV. You will never convince me that today they did not tweak software and just do not want to admit it. I just wish they could be more honest when there are issues and just admit it.
Kareem Habib,
Federal Investigator
NHTSA, US DOT
1200 New Jersey Ave, SE
Washington DC, 20590
I'm sure they have a telephone number you could call as well.
Sorry folks, I've just been way too busy to be on here lately or read all the posts (I skimmed some), but saw someone posting that he/she hadn't received the questioaire yet, so wanted to put this out there in case others wish to inform NHTSA about this.
It seems ridiculous that a software update cannot be backed off or an earlier level cannot be reinstalled.
I had the software upgrade performed (NOT BY REQUEST) 3 weeks ago. Gas mileage has been getting consistently worse. I have also noted that the battery recharge system has become "selective" as to when it will charge the battery. Where the "green" recharge bars used to appear whenever I took my foot off the gas or when I applied the brakes, now they only appear "sometimes". As a result of this "selective" charging, the batteries are not fully charging, the AUTO-STOP feature doesn't kick in as often and the gas mileage SUCKS!!
While all the above items are more than a bit annoying (as in "THIS IS NOT THE CAR I PURCHASED!!!), something happened yesterday that NEVER happened before the software upgrade and is a dangerous safety issue. As I pulled up to a stoplight, the AUTOSTOP feature was activated - the way it is supposed to!!??!! But then after around 25 to 30 seconds, while my foot was still on the brake and not on the gas pedal, the car AUTO-STARTED by itself and the car lurched forward a bit toward the car in front of me! I checked it again at the next stoplight, this time putting a great deal more pressure on the brake. The car, which was in AUTO-STOP, auto-started again while I was excessively braking.
According to the 2009 Honda Civic Hybrid User Manual page 276:
"The engine will start again when you release the brake pedal.
It will also
restart, even if you are still pressing
the brake pedal, under these
conditions:
1) You move the shift lever from D
or N to R or L.
2) You press the accelerator pedal.
3) You are on an incline, and the
vehicle begins rolling."
Please note that NONE OF THESE CONDITIONS APPLIED IN MY SITUATION. BE AWARE: THE 2009 HONDA CIVIC HYBRID WITH IMA SOFTWARE UPGRADE CAN AUTO- START WHEN YOU ARE APPLYING THE BRAKES. MAKE SURE YOU ARE APPLYING AMPLE PRESSURE TO THE BRAKE OR YOU COULD RAM INTO THE CAR IN FRONT OF YOU WHEN IT AUTO-STARTS. And you might want to take you vehicle to the nearest Honda dealer and ask that they remove the software upgrade. Also, find the NHTSA contact info in post above this one. I think this is something they might find of interest and could lead to a recall of this lousy piece of crap Honda. Shame on you Honda!!!!!!!!!!
The software upgrade did change how my system charged, resulting in maintaining a higher level of minimum charge and a slightly lower level of maximum charge. With the upgrade and after a new battery was installed, my mpg is essentially the same as before.
I wonder what happens if the update is never applied? Will the batteries die prematurely? If they die before the 8 year warranty expires, isn't that a good thing since Honda would presumably be forced to replace them for free?
Bill
We took to Honda and they found the P0A7F code and subsequently replaced the battery.
However the car has not performed as when new. Both city and highway mpg is about 37mpg and frequently drops to 34-36mpg. The IMA charge bars only maintain at about 4-6 bars and periodically drop to one. We advised Honda and their response was to pull over and rev the engine to recharge the battery. The IMA sometimes stops working, even if the battery shows 4-6 bars which is un-nerving. We noticed when driving up hill the assist will drop off if the RPM's climb above 3000.
Today December 31 my wife was driving the car and the IMA and check engine light came on about 2 miles from home and stayed on while going to the gym. When she started the car to come home the IMA went off, but the check engine remained on.
I called Honda and scheduled an appoinment. So is it the battery again? Judging that some people here have gone through two batteries, I wouldn't be surprised.
We will wait to see what Honda says, but I am looking into filing a complaint with NHTSA if I don't like what they say.
For those looking here is the NHTSA link:
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/