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BMW 335i vs Infiniti G37
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Comments
Thanks, habitat, for reviewing this guy's post (I considered it too long to actually read). Since you thought it was worthy, I went back & read it.
I agree. Sadly, it's irrelevant for me, because Infiniti doesn't provide a rear seat fold-down that will accommodate a bicycle. In my world, that's a non-negotiable item. BMW fold-down seats (or the wagon) actually accommodates a bicycle.
Imagine that. A car chosen based on lifestyle, as opposed to 0.2 second (or whatever) 0-60 numbers. It can happen. Bring me a RWD car with a manual transmission that will hold my bicycle within it. It's a really short list, on this continent. Oh, and I really want it to be a diesel.
Whoops, the list went from a few to zero. . .for now. Perhaps in a year or three?
As someone is likely to point out, who wants a performance coupe (or sedan or wagon) that carries a bicycle?
Me, and BMW provides it.
So when are we going to see a 335d or 535d? And do you think BMW will, by then, offer them with a manual transmission? I understand the European models are automatic only, supposedly because the manual can't handle the 440+ ft.lbs of torque.
The Mercedes E320 Bluetech has never been completely erased from my list of contenders. My marketing director has one, after going from an E300 diesel to an E320 Turbodiesel to now the E320 Bluetech. Her kids inherited the former two and they occasionally all drive to their family vacation home on Hilton Head caravan style, seeing who will get closest to 40 mpg on the highway. She managed 39.5mpg on a return trip (500 miles without stopping) in September at an average speed of 75+.
If BMW offered a 335d (or 535d) with BMW handling, a 6 speed manual and performance that would be damn near the gas model 335i, I'd accelerate my TL replacement program tomorrow.
Enjoy your biking.
I enjoy the handling around corners much more than the rush of acceleration, given a choice. Some want both. Not me, but I'm sure the 335/535d's will sell like hotcakes once they're made available over here. I'm afraid that BMW is going to work its way down from the bigger engines & may never get to the 320/325d that I covet.
It'll take me one more car between now & 3-5 years from now, when I expect this to settle out.
I was interested to read in a lengthy Washington Post article on Steve Fossett that his latest (and now unfinished) conquest was an assault on the land speed record. They had a picture of the rocket powered car that he inteded to use to try to hit 850+ mph and I saw where it was designed to run on diesel or biodiesel fuel. I can remember my golfing buddy's 240d 4-speed manual that had to be downshifted to 2nd or 1st to make it up the Skyline Drive hills. But it did log 200k reliable miles before the cheapskate failed to replace a $20 temperature guage and blew up the engine when a radiator leak went undetected.
I do take your point, though. In my case, saving the $3-5K price difference between the 335 & 328 (or 320/25 diesel) enters into it as well.
All of which (in a vain & rather delayed attempt to stay on topic) is why the "value" of the Infiniti attracted me initially, in spite of the thirsty & somewhat crude (though well thought of) engine, until the carrying capacity was confirmed to be unacceptable (for my purposes).
(if I may be so bold as to ask :P )
If I like the car I plan to keep it to 100K plus and assume that BMW longevity will get me though.
BUT... A twin turbo with 100K plus miles worries me.
Tell me it will be OK in case the dark side takes over an dpracticiality goes out the window.
I realize it's odd, but. . .
Wonder what it said?
Best Regards,
Shipo
:shades:
Thats what impresses me as a driver , the televisions in the car do not impress, toyota corolla now offers navigation systems ...
335xi owner ...
In the end, I just don't prefer the BMW by anywhere near $10K (maybe $3-5K). When I e-mailed the most responsive BMW dealer I had worked with and asked if he could cut into the nearly $10K gap, he didn't even respond.
I know there are plenty of people who will say that in the long run, you won't regret buying what you want, and I partially agree. On the other hand, it's hard to imagine that I will regret having an extra $10K in the bank either (that can be put towards the next car if desired). You can always find something more expensive that would be even better. (Actually, I'd take the Audi S5 over the 335i, it's only about $8-10K more...)
Anyway, I'm pretty excited to be getting a fantastic car at an amazing value. (And no real knock to the 335i, if the Infiniti didn't exist, I'd have bought the Bimmer and thought it was a good value, too).
Now I find that the new 335 diesel will be introduced this Spring. Question for the experts (note snip from BMW):
"Diesel BMW vehicles, however, are expected to be available in 2008. We have not yet released specific information on which models will be featured in the American diesel debut. I am sorry I am unable to provide you with more information on pricing at this time.
If you have any further questions, please reply to this e-mail or contact the Customer Relations and Services Department at 1-800-831-1117, Monday through Friday from 9:00 A.M. to 9:00 P.M., Eastern Standard Time. Again, thank you for contacting BMW."
I am very interested in having a 335 diesel which can be biodiesel-powered, using the "vegetable oil" available in several large cities. Will BMW honor the 4/50,000 warranty if driven with such "fuel?" I am excited about the prospect of not being a polluter and conceding a bit of performance if biodiesel can be substituted for diesel fuel, and the mileage should be considerably better. Comments appreciated. By the way, I lease for three years, would extend for four, and would not keep a BMW out of warranty based upon present thinking. The run-flats are a mistake, and they really should offer a 6-CD changer in the dash, not taking up your entire center console. But the ride and handling differences between the Infiniti and BMW are substantial enough to justify increasing my monthly lease payment by $ 150, which is substantial, but I'm not getting younger.
You just ordered a 335xi and you want to cancel your order in the hopes that BMW will send over the 335d in 2008?
Maybe I'm opening a can of worms here, but that doesn't make sense on a few fronts:
1) The 335xi is an AWD sedan and the 335d is RWD. Do you need AWD or not?
....a) If you need AWD, then the diesel is out of the equation since it doesn't come in AWD.
....b) If you don't need AWD, then why did you choose the 335xi over the more economical and sporting 335i?
2) If you are willing to sacrifice performance to reap the economic benefits of a diesel, why not just get a 328i instead?
....a) The 328i gets 33 MPG compared to 35 MPG for the 335d - pretty darn close.
....b) The 328i goes from 0-62 MPH in 6.4 seconds - the 335d is a mere 0.2 seconds quicker.
....c) The 328i weighs 300 lbs less that the 335d and has a much higher rev limit (almost 3000 RPM!) - a much more dynamic and sporting driving experience.
....d) In England, the 335d costs £2,000 more than the 335i. Since the 335i costs $38,900 here, the 328i ($32,400) will likely cost at least $8,000 less than the 335d.
To me, the 335d looks like a more expensive ($8,000+), less convenient (diesel availability), less fun to drive (heavier & less rev happy) sedan than the 328i. Since the 328i offers virtually the same acceleration and fuel economy as the 335d, and as far as I know, diesel doesn't burn any cleaner than gasoline (and no worse under Tier 2 standards), why burn oil insead of gas?
Biodiesel is an exciting possibility, but unfortunately, it's still a pipedream for the individual consumer. Buying a diesel car with the intent of burning biodiesel is akin to having bought an HDTV 10 years ago - sure the potential is there, but it's not easily realized. We all know about it's reduced CO2 and particulate emissions (and increased NOx), but where are you going to find it? How much does it cost per gallon? Which car makers endorse it?
I also have to question the use of biodiesel in a BMW sports car. You're already sacrificing acceleration and handling to switch to diesel. Biodiesel will sap even more engine power and fuel economy from the car (about 10% from what I've read). It seems like an intriguing idea for a family car or crossover wagon, but not in a performance car. What's so fun about pushing around 300 extra pounds with a 4500 RPM rev limit and 25 fewer horses?
If it were me, I'd save the $8,000 and buy a 328i. Until it's widely available and endorsed by the car manufacturers, I'll leave the biodiesel for the fleets of city buses and government vehicles to use.
With the $9800 you saved up front and the more than 10% better resale value in the end, you would save enough to buy that 335 after just three cars
Huh? I don't know about you, but I don't belittle anyones choice of car. My 335 cost around $42-$43K, nowhere around the $10K gap. Personally I would rather drive a stripper BMW than a loaded G35/G37, for to me the value is in the better overall car the BMW is, not the value of the gadgets. Once you've had one it's tough to go back.
Frankly, the BMW to a number of folks is the choice of a rational person..to get into an unbelievable car.
Frommxstormz3, congratulations on your new car. Hope it treats you well.
-Getz
Regards,
OW
I agree. The BMW would also have been a very rational decision - it's a fantastic car for the money (although I think the G37 is even more bang for the buck). While I think I made a good decision, I don't think either one of the two cars would have been a bad one, which is why I wrestled so hard with the choice.
In my case, I personally wanted the options I wanted, and even stripping down the Bimmer to the options I REALLY wanted and giving up a few, I could not have gotten the car down much below an $8K gap including TTL. In MY case, I would prefer the well-equipped G37 over a stripper BMW, but I do admit, that the 335i is sweet. And hey, if I change my mind, I'm not marrying the car...
Regards,
OW
My BMW has never told me it's not in the mood when I want to play, and it doesn't have a taste for Brighton handbags and Ferragamo shoes. :P
Remember, Marriage is not a word -- it is a sentence.
Or, in the imitable words of Yogi Bera, if you come to a fork in the road, take it!
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
-Getz
Not so fast!
Let me first say that anyone who has to decide to choose between these two amazing cars is a very lucky person and I feel blessed to be stuck with such a hard decision. I haven't posted for quite some time but I can tell you what I will not be buying. Currently I have a 2005 Mustang Gt and a 2007 XC90. One for me, who drives to work and back, sometimes bring the kids around for errands (6 and 4yr old) and the XC90 for her where we do most of our driving as well as my 6 week old baby. yes I am tired!
Anyways, I really wanted another coupe but I did entertain a few sedans. I said no to the:
1.C350 - a very nice looking car to my eye and a nice engine. I felt that the interior was not up to par for what a Mercedes should be. the engine is nice but simply didn't feel quick. I wasn't terrible impressed with the auto tranny either as I did prefer a manual. Bottom line: pretty but pretty cheap.
2. 335i sedan - something about the car just did not feel comfortable. I don't know if it was due to the door pillar being in my peripheral but I felt cramped and honestly was not in love with the styling of the car inside and out. I drives extremely well, however. Bottom line: a great drive but somehow claustrophobic?
3. IS350 - fast little beast with the most coupe-like feel. Too bad for the transmission while equipped with paddles was embarrassingly slow in shifting. Best materials of its class by far. Bottom line: love it but hate the tranny
4. Chrysler 330 SRT8 - I know, I know, but I couldn' t help myself. I still can't beleive how fast that car accelerated. When I sat back in my Mustang, a high 13sec car, it felt like a V6. Wow. Bottom line: I was never going to buy a Chrylser.
So, the 335ci was the car for me. The delaership is a stone's throw away and I was excited to finally enter the BMW family. I love how it drives and it feels like a V8. Torque everywhere, as instant a throttle response as you can expect out of a turbo setup. Reasonably spacious. What's not too like? The interior isn't the greatest, a little bland to my eyes. But comfortable and correct anyways. I enjoyed driving this car a lot, the transmission was very good, but I have sampled less rubbery shift linkages but it would seem to be impossible to stall with a buttery smooth clutch. the sound system was very good to this audiophiles ears. Nothing more, but nothing less.
The G37 is a pretty car. While I like the prior coupe, I strayed away from this coupe because it simply did not feel much better than the Mustang GT in 2005. Although the materials were obviously better, it was put together better and my test cars were always buzzing or rattling from the shifter to the upper console. the ride was simply punishing and while I do have a wonky back, still, I felt beat up with the 19 inchers on the prior coupe. Also, it didn't sound nice and didn't feel fast enough to me. This coupe has managed to correct all these issues. From the exhaust sound to the ride to the much better fit and finish, it is light years ahead form the previous version plus it has a lot of nice features and toys.
In the end, I would be lying if price was not a factor. The truth of the matter is I can afford whatever I want. However, I would feel slightly guilty owning the 335i because the only way I can exploit its goodness is autocrossing it. In my mundane life of simply driving to work and running errands, it just was not a justifiable purchase. However that was not the most implrtant factor which swayed my decision.
The 335i as great as a car it is...it looks simply boring. It looks like a sedan that has lost two doors. A coupe should be a car to be seen in, to stick out, to look the part of a coupe. Because I love cars, I can spot a 3 coupe and admire it, but it is a bland design that only true enthusiasts can enjoy. the G37 has curves, it has so much more aesthetic appeal that looks like a sport coupe. I rememeber my Mustang the first few months and the incredible reaction from all people. I think that a coupe should be about style, and the Infiniti has it inside and out.
Sorry for the long post, I am just making up for time lost!
Again two fantastic cars and I will never say anything to anyone who purchases either because they are amazing cars.
Congrats on your new ride.
I have to say one mans bland interior is another mans extremely functional interior. The interior is high quality and I appreciate the fact it does not draw attention from the road and everything is extremely easy to find.
I just wished BMW went a little further with more style.
I'd just like to note that I also share your opinion on the 335i's bland looks. I know that the following aerokit is available for the 335i which adds a minimalist touchup to the lower front and rear bumber. The option is listed at $1200 or so on bmwusa.com. I'm not sure if such a measure would be adequate to liven up the 335i. Another interesting option available for the 335i would be the Dinan ECU and Oil cooler installments which boost torque and hp safely and without voiding BMW's warrentee. The ECU and Oil cooler cost $2000 each plus say 11hrs of installment cost at roughly $150/hr..figure an additional $5500 to $6000 cost. That and the $1200 aero-kit..would run $7200 in exciting factor addons. I know, a high price tag for things that should come with a car costing this much. (things being exciting factor).
With a 335i coupe well optioned running 50k..the above jacks it up to a whoopping $57k. ouch.. roughly the same as a base E92 M3 (which I don't want anyway..see blog) One's gotta ask.. is it worth it? Maybe you're right..the G37 is the best choice?
Some cents,
Joseph
San Diego
blog: http://www.carspace.com/blogs/enthusiastsdilemma08
Why don't you try to option out the G37 so it has exactly the same performance numbers and hp/torque as a 335 with the dinan or vishnu chip. What would that cost if even doable? One has gotta ask, doesn't the 335 mods seem like a bargain for 350 hp and gobs of torque at any price?
Of course, only a poseur would up the HP and leave the suspension stock. After all, what good is all that HP if you can't put it down to the pavement? Since the standard "Sport Suspension" isn't up to the task of putting all that power on the road, you'll want to get a set of Bilstein Sport shocks and H&R springs + swaybars from Turner Motorsport for $1200. Finally, replace the "run-flat" tires with a set of proper rubber - Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires for $900 from The Tire Rack and you're all set.
Or you could buy a Porsche...
Are you a BMW representative or sale's rep or something? It sure sounds like it.
I'm just sayin. The 335i is a bit bland in my opinion and was considering how to liven it up a notch. I'm not the only one who thinks the 335i is toned down given its sporty performance.
I'll probably just get the 335i with Sports Package and Aerokit. If I hear of raving reviews of Dinan mod'd 335i's...and I'm feelin like a bit more hp/torque.. I'll consider Dinan.
I hear that not all 335's come with the oil cooler. What's the deal with that??
There's no negotiating on this item as far as I'm concerned. No oil cooler, no sale!
Joseph
San Diego
blog: http://www.carspace.com/blogs/enthusiastsdilemma08
There's no negotiating on this item as far as I'm concerned. No oil cooler, no sale!"
A couple of points:
1) I don't understand why you should worry about an oil cooler. If you're only going to be driving your car on the public roads, then you're NEVER going to need the oil cooler, regarless of how hot the OAT is.
2) Cars with the Sports Package come with the oil cooler as those are the ones that are most likely to see some track time.
3) fedlawman is one of our most esteemed BMWcentric members who does take his car to the track and drives the stuffin' out of it.
Best Regards,
Shipo
2. 335i sedan - something about the car just did not feel comfortable.
So, the 335ci was the car for me. I love how it drives and it feels like a V8. Torque everywhere, as instant a throttle response as you can expect out of a turbo setup.
I thought all 335s come with the same turbo engine. Does 335ci really feel much better in regards to the power and torque?
I enjoyed driving this car a lot, the transmission was very good,
again, transmission should be the same to all 335s.
I am not sure which model you refered to. I test drove only 335i sedan. It's already very nice. Thinking to get it soon. I am wondering if there is a better one except 335xi(I know the difference between 335i and 335xi). :confuse: :confuse: :confuse:
That's your second attempt to goad me into a response, when you already know (first hand) that I'm not one to mince words. So instead of responding directly (and making you cry again), I'm going to show some restraint.
What I'll say in the clearest way I know is...
I'm a car enthusiast who knows a thing or two about performance and vehicle dynamics. If I were in your shoes right now, here's what I'd do.
1. I'd buy out the lease on my current 330i for probably half the price of that new 335i.
2. I'd invest $900 on a set of Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires.
The tires alone will improve acceleration, cornering, braking, transient response, and steering feel. But if you're really looking for an excuse to spend some money...
3. I'd splurge on Dinan's excellent S1 Package for the 330i. For $4300, you get a nice boost in power (270 HP) and the S1 suspension, which literally transforms the E90 into a genuine sport sedan. The Dinan Stage 1 330i is, in my opinion, superior in every way (that matters) to a stock 335i, and you've already half payed for it.
Of course, I already know you're not interested in actual performance results. You would rather festoon your car with useless aerodyanmic add-ons and overpriced computer chips and oil coolers you don't need. A fool and his money...
On your thoughts:
1.) I'd never buy a BMW. Too much liability and reliability hassles. Several mechanics have warned me that BMW's tend to fall appart after 4 years. So, I'd rather lease'em.
2.) Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires: good idea however you get 2-3 less mpg and they tend to be slippery when cold (before driving 15-20 minutes).
3.) Dinan's excellent S1 Package for the 330i. For $4300 http://www.carspace.com/blogs/enthusiastsdilemma08
There are plenty of owner opinions posted here in the 3-Series group as well as the Infiniti G37 group that you can read. There is an awful lot of depth of content on this site that should be very helpful to you.
Check it out!
Your right, a few uninformed mechanics have it over the several million BMW satisified BMW owners. If you read the G35 problems boards, you would come away with the same impression of the G35.
I'm not inclined to believe that. I've worked on plenty of old German cars, BMWs included, and I certainly would never say that they were falling apart after a few years and a few hundred thousand miles.
"Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires: good idea however you get 2-3 less mpg and they tend to be slippery when cold (before driving 15-20 minutes)."
Two to three miles per gallon lost due to the change of the tires? Are you serious? If tires were absorbing that much energy, those poor skins would melt off the rims in fairly short order. As for them being slippery when cold, yes, when below forty degrees they tend to be a bit diabolical, however, the number of times per year that San Diego gets below fourty can be counted on the fingers of one hand.
As for the other advice (i.e. keeping your current car and adding some go fast goodies or tarting up a 335i), personally I don't see the point of either. Maybe it's just me. :confuse:
Best Regards,
Shipo