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Will the Chevy Volt Succeed?

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Comments

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Time to bury the Volt before we waste more tax dollars propping it up.
    September sales 723 units. Probably sold to Chevy dealers in the states where they are not available.

    http://media.gm.com/content/Pages/news/us/en/2011/Oct/gmsales/_jcr_content/right- par/sectioncontainer/par/download/file.res/Deliveries%20SEPT%202011.pdf
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    At $7,500 tax credit per pop, those 723 cars represent $5,422,500 in tax money handed out just in Sept....

    But, as is my style, I must mention that the Volt is preferable to the "only runs on electric" options we have, since it has no "range anxiety" issue. It can go across the country just like a regular car.

    The Plug-In Prius coming in 2012 will be a help for the Volt too, because it will help people understand how a car can be BOTH an electric and a gas car.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The tax credit is chicken feed when talking Volt. How about the $300 million for a battery assembly plant? It was just a political move as we are not going to manufacture the batteries. Only assemble them for the Volt. One article tags each Volt at $197,000 in subsidies. To add insult to injury so far most of the Volts have been sold to other Chevy dealers who use the tax credit. I don't expect the Prius Plug-in to do much better if the price ends up on the high end with a VERY SHORT 10 mile EV range.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Gary says, "To add insult to injury so far most of the Volts have been sold to other Chevy dealers who use the tax credit. "

    Gary, be careful there. You took one little story and ran with it, facts be darned? That particular right-wing-fueled falsehood has been debunked.

    “I recently set out to determine how honest General Motors is being when it claims that demand for the Chevy Volt is exceeding supply,” the author wrote, “It was not hard to discover that this is not the case as retail sales remain dismal.”
    He goes on to cite Volts for sale on eBay with no bids, six dealers he said he found with unsold Volts within 70 miles of his location, and a couple dealers that have unjustifiably taken the $7,500 tax credit for themselves. These dealers, the writer contends, bought the car, claimed the tax credit, then turned around and put essentially new cars up for sale as used at inflated prices – with no credit available to the buyer.
    And indeed, it does appear true that a few dealers have tried charging almost as much for a used Volt as a new one. At least one has even tried for over MSRP.
    It is not true GM endorses this or is at fault because what a few bad apples do.
    After its one-two rhetorical uppercut last week, the NLPC followed through with a second piece yesterday reasserting its previous allegations, and defending itself with jabs against those who disagreed and said the NLPC was just a biased, right wing hate group.
    “This seems to be a popular political tactic used when certain ideologies are presented with criticism; ignore the facts and attack the source,” the NLPC writer said.


    Price on the Prius Plug-In starts at $29K. And that's 13 miles on EV. Which for me would be most of my commute.

    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/10q2/2012_toyota_prius_plug-in_hybrid-fi- rst_drive_review

    From one real-world tester:

    I am driving a test Prius PlugIn car and have been for six weeks. This is a great car...goes approx 15 miles as an EV, recharges on 110 in three hours, 1.5 hrs if 220 outlet. Currently we are operating 27% in electric only and 73% in hybrid mode and are getting 66.5 mpg. These are from the various readouts that are part of this car. Have three more weeks until I have to turn car in, but I am REALLY going to miss driving "my" electric Prius! Will be first in line when they rollout, and I expect at least 40 electric only operation when they are sold. Roy Boyer/Boulder CO 7/28/11

    'Yota is pricing the Plug-In Prius for a successful launch.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    You must have missed this post a few days ago. There are more Volts for sale in the USA today than have been sold since it hit the market.

    Volts 4 sale

    Every thing I have read including the article you listed from last year has the Plug-in Prius base price at $33k with a top of $39k.

    As far as a credit, according to the IRS the Plug-in Hybrid must have at least 5 KWH battery. The Prius only has a 4.4 KWH battery.

    Internal Revenue Code Section 30D provides a credit for Qualified Plug-in Electric Drive Motor Vehicles including passenger vehicles and light trucks. For vehicles acquired after 12/31/2009, the credit is equal to $2,500 plus, for a vehicle which draws propulsion energy from a battery with at least 5 kilowatt hours of capacity, $417, plus an additional $417 for each kilowatt hour of battery capacity in excess of 5 kilowatt hours. The total amount of the credit allowed for a vehicle is limited to $7,500.

    http://www.irs.gov/businesses/article/0,,id=219867,00.html
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Happy to edumacate you, Amigo:

    Prius Plug-in starts at $32K. Here is the website:

    http://www.toyota.com/prius-plug-in/

    No $7500 IRS plug-in tax credit will be available for the Prius. No one at 'Yota has ever said that it would be....BUT it might be up for a $2500 tax credit, depending on what the IRS decides to give:

    Will the Prius Plug-in qualify for the federal tax incentive?
    While the federal government has yet to certify the Prius Plug-in for the incentive, purchasers of a Prius Plug-in vehicle may be able to take advantage of a Federal tax credit estimated to be approximately $2,500.

    QUALIFIED PLUG-IN ELECTRIC DRIVE MOTOR VEHICLE TAX CREDIT
    August 2011

    Individual purchasers of a Prius Plug-in vehicle may be able to take advantage of the Federal Qualified Plug-in Electric Drive Motor Vehicle tax credit. The Prius Plug-in vehicle tax credit is estimated to be approximately $2,500. However, the Internal Revenue Service has not yet reviewed or confirmed the specific amount of credit, so at this time there are no assurances any purchasers will be able to take advantage of any specific amount of the credit, from zero credit up to the above estimate.

    To qualify for the potential Plug-in tax credit:
    1. The Plug-in vehicle must be new. Used vehicles will not qualify.
    2. The Plug-in vehicle must be purchased. Leased vehicles will not allow the lessee to take advantage of the Plug-in tax credit.
    3. The Plug-in vehicle use is primarily in the United States.
    4. The purchaser must retain appropriate documentation showing the purchase of the vehicle and the date of the delivery of the vehicle.

    For personal use vehicles, the Plug-in vehicle tax credit is treated as a nonrefundable personal credit and is limited by the taxpayer's amount of tax liability for the year the car is placed in service. Individual purchasers and corporations who have business use of the Plug-in vehicle are subject to different tax laws that may also substantially reduce or eliminate the above benefits.

    All persons considering the use of this important Federal Plug-in vehicle tax credit should consult with their own tax advisors to determine the specific amount of benefit, if any, that they may be able to claim on their federal income tax returns. Your tax advisor may also have further information on the many state and local tax incentives that may be available to Plug-in vehicle owners.

    The above summary is based on the federal income tax law in effect as of summer 2011, and individual tax implications may change, without notice, depending on subsequent changes in the federal tax law or further action by the Internal Revenue Service.

    Please find more information at the Internal Revenue Service (http://www.irs.gov/).
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Don't count on any of those $32k Prius to show up on the lots. It will more than likely be $35k+ models. And the reason I mentioned the TC is several publications have speculated on the Tax credit of $2500. There is a discrepancy between the Fuel Economy site and the law posted on the IRS site. As with all TCs I will believe it when I see it on my return.

    Prices for the Prius Plug-in Hybrid start at $32,000 and the top-of-the-line Advanced will cost $39,525; reservations for both start next month. Most buyers should be able to get a federal tax credit of $2,500 to ease the sting.

    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/28/2012-toyota-prius-plug-in-first-drive-review/-

    That said, any reason to think the Volt will survive here in the USA? Or will it become an import from China as GM has speculated?
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    The Volt will survive. GM has too much of an investment in it.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    GM has little or NO investment in the Volt. It is all our tax dollars my friend.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Um, yeah, only SOME of it. Some of the investment happened after their IPO.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    You know that IPO did not really do the tax payers any good. More of the smoke and mirrors on GM repaying their debt to US.

    A $75 billion gift to GM, the UAW and Volt. Stock is now down to $20 a share. The Volt is a small part of our getting ripped off by GM.

    But that still leaves a $30 billion shortfall (excluding the $45 billion tax break). To get this back, the federal government would have to sell its remaining 365 million shares—about 26.5 percent of company equity—for about $55 per share. But after GM posted its latest earnings report, its stock price dropped to $31, a few dollars below even its IPO price of $33.
  • benrey23benrey23 Member Posts: 42
    Not a fan of the bailout. However I have been impressed with what Chevy is doing. The Cruze is a fine vehicle. The Malibu for 2013 will take whats good about the current model and greatly improve the rest. The Equionos is a hot seller. The Sonic is 100% improvement from the Aveo. The trucks will get a huge redesign in 2013 or 14. Lets not forget the Camaro. As for the Volt, with the technology it has, ride and performance it is a very good car. Yes it is priced high. We could send 70% of the supplied parts and assemble outside the US if you want lower price but the value is there. They began investing in the Volt back in Bush's term before the bailout. I want the gov out of it just as much as everyone else does. I just know firsthand what the changes at Chevy is doing for the company and it is great.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Don't get me wrong, I am happy that GM is getting their act together. I just see the Volt as another segment of the Green agenda that is not well thought out. It is being pushed through for political reasons. With little regard for saving the environment. It is not sustainable. I think the Cruze diesel will be the green car to beat when it gets here.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited October 2011
    ......However I have been impressed with what Chevy is doing. The Cruze is a fine vehicle. The Malibu for 2013 will take whats good about the current model and greatly improve the rest. The Equionos is a hot seller. The Sonic is 100% improvement from the Aveo. The trucks will get a huge redesign in 2013 or 14. Lets not forget the Camaro......

    Um ya...

    link title

    I guess I would say the same if I worked for them too, lol.
  • chevrolet123chevrolet123 Member Posts: 1
    Do you guys think that the Prius Plug-In and the Volt are really comparable? The Prius Plug-In does not have a gas tank right?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Not sure who told you that about the Plug-in Prius. It is a Prius with a slightly larger battery. It does not have the EV only range of the Volt. And will not qualify for the full $7500 tax credit. The larger battery in the Volt accounts for the much higher price.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    and if you buy the loaded Prius it stickers for about the same as the Volt. And no rebate.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Well, no rebate "as of TODAY" but there is talk of getting a rebate program started which would discount around $3,200-$3,500.

    The "loaded" Prius is a better bargain overall than the Volt because it gets 40-45 MPG when running on gas engine, while the Volt gets only around 35 MPG when using it's engine to generate electricity.
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  • benrey23benrey23 Member Posts: 42
    larsb: The loaded Prius is no way a better bargain than the VOlt. The Volt has much better technology in it. First the Volt average is 37MPG. Even when you are in gas generator mode it still runs on electric propulsion with instant torque and very quiet. The fact is the Prius can't go 100% on electricity for a period of time. The Volt can run everyday 100% on electricity. Can't say the same for the Prius. I want to also say I have drove a Prius and a Volt. The Volt while it is heavier it feels lighter in the steering, and handles turns ect. much better. The Volt can get up to 60MPH in less than 8.5 seconds and go up to 100 MPH.. The Volt is in a much higher league than the Prius.
  • benrey23benrey23 Member Posts: 42
    If the Prius plug in had no gas tank then it would run 100% on electricity and recieve 100% of the tax credit. It does not and it does run on gas a majority of the time. Might I also say it is built with cheap material.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    But the Volt is made in the USA granted with some foreign parts but the Prius is 100% made in Japan with foreign parts. No benefit to our economy.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    benrey23 says, "larsb: The loaded Prius is no way a better bargain than the VOlt."

    I usually do my research before I make a statement, so.....let me share it with you.....:)

    You know I was talking about the new "Plug-in Prius" and not the regular Prius, right? It "CAN" go 100% on electricity for (Toyota estimate) about 15 miles.

    Edumacate yourself:

    http://www.toyota.com/prius-plug-in/

    Rated at 87/49 MPG (mpge and mpg) compared to the Volt which is 93/37. The Plug-In Prius has a gas tank of 10.6 gallons, while the Volt's gas tank is 9.3 gallons.

    Which means in the Plug-In Prius you can go 534.4 miles on a tank of gas (including electric charge) and in the Volt you can only go 384.1 miles when fully charged/fully gassed up.

    So, in essence, since the Volt has larger batteries, you would spend more electricity charging the Volt and because the Volt (when the battery depletes) only gets 37 MPG (versus 49 for the Plug-In Prius) you also spend more GAS driving the Volt.

    And most likely the Plug-In Prius will sell out the door cheaper than the Volt.

    So, in summary:

    1. Cheaper to buy
    2. Cheaper to charge
    3. Cheaper to gas up

    Thus, the PIP (Plug-In Prius) is OBVIOUSLY a better bargain than the Volt.

    Happy EV-ing !!! :shades:
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    dmathews3 says, "... but the Prius is 100% made in Japan with foreign parts. No benefit to our economy."

    That's an Urban myth, and a common but outdated and incorrect belief.

    It would only be true if Toyota did not employ a SINGLE AMERICAN inside our country. But they obviously do:

    Toyota dealerships - managers and mechanics. Sales force who is employed. Clerical force who is employed. IT staff who is employed. Property taxes paid by dealerships and employees. Sales taxes paid. People who drive Toyota vehicles pay vehicle registration fees. They pay gasoline taxes. Through their employment with Toyota they pay income taxes. State income taxes (in some cases.) They buy lunches and dinners and coffee and send their kids to college paying out the nose for over-priced books. Independent garages who work on Toyotas have the same effect as dealerships.

    Buying any "foreign" car puts money into the pockets of plenty of Americans.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    Depending on your driving if the Pruis is better. My job is just under 15 miles one way. I could drive it for the rest of my life without using any gas. I can't say that for the Prius. Plus since the Prius is totally made in Japan I can't see helping out their economy when ours needs it more. That the reason we are in the mess we are in now. I try to buy as much American as possible and yes my last TV was made oversea's but I can say I have less than 10 pieces of clothes that aren't american. Sure it can be hard but I have educated myself as to who carries what and go by that.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    edited October 2011
    dmathews3 says, "Plus since the Prius is totally made in Japan I can't see helping out their economy when ours needs it more."

    You would have the answer to that if you had seen this part of my prior post, so maybe you missed it:

    HOW BUYING A TOYOTA HELPS THE AMERICAN ECONOMY

    Toyota dealerships PAY AMERICAN EMPLOYEES A SALARY, USING AMERICAN DOLLARS - Sales managers and mechanics. Sales force who is employed. Clerical force who is employed. IT staff who is employed. The guys who clean the cars. The janitors.

    THESE TOYOTA EMPLOYEES PAY TAXES WHICH ALL AMERICANS PAY: Property taxes paid by dealerships and employees. Sales taxes paid. People who drive Toyota vehicles pay vehicle registration fees. They pay gasoline taxes. Through their employment with Toyota they pay income taxes. State income taxes (in some cases.)

    WITH THE MONEY THESE AMERICAN TOYOTA EMPLOYEES ARE PAID BY TOYOTA, THEY INVEST INTO THE AMERICAN ECONOMY IN THEIR TOWN/CITY:
    They buy lunches and dinners and coffee and send their kids to college paying out the nose for over-priced books. They go to the movies. They go to concerts. They buy groceries and appliances.

    AMERICANS WHO ARE NOT DIRECTLY EMPLOYED BY TOYOTA **STILL** EARN MONEY SERVICING TOYOTA VEHICLES:
    Independent garages who work on Toyotas have the same effect as dealerships - they pay employees who then do all the things I have listed above.

    So, in summary, the unequivocal and irrefutable correct answer is YES buying Toyota cars DOES BOTH DIRECTLY AND INDIRECTLY BENEFIT THE AMERICAN ECONOMY.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    and if you believe all that bull I have some ocean front property to sell you in Kansas. I can say all of what you said plus the money from the profit stays here and helps us. I bet you drive foreign and need that bull to justify it. :P :P :P :shades:
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    edited October 2011
    As a proud American and ex-Marine, I have "driven foreign" in every car I have owned in 32 years of car ownership. But that has nothing to do with the facts as I presented them. Everything I said is 100% true.

    Can you name one item in that list which is untrue? No, didn't think so.

    The days of "us versus them" AKA "American versus foreign" are over, my friend. That's a prejudice from another era, thankfully bygone.

    I'm sure you have people in your extended family who work for "foreign-based" companies. Ask them if they like having a job.

    P.S. I just noticed you are based in Michigan, so I see where your "anti-foreign" attitude comes from. Your perspective is skewed because of your geographic locale, which is fine with me - but realize it DOES shade your perspective a bit...People who don't rely on the American auto industry to feed their kids every day have a different attitude than those from Michigan...One of my best friends in the Marine Corps was a Michigan guy - great dude.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Let's dull the personal edge to this right now.

    Thanks for your cooperation and participation.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited October 2011
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Who's getting personal?
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Well, apparently some other folks were wondering the same thing we were: What is the best value between the Volt and the Prius Plug-In?

    Well, as usual, IT DEPENDS.

    My earlier contention is true that for longer drives, the Prius is a better value.

    However, for SHORTER drives, the Volt is slightly cheaper to power.

    Here is the whole story:

    Chevy Volt is cheaper to drive than the Prius plug-in for shorter distances

    With complete details of Toyota’s Prius Plug-in Hybrid being revealed, Pike Research has found that the Volt is slightly cheaper to drive than the Prius plug-in, as long as you are going less than 70 miles between charges. The calculations were based on gas prices set $3.50 and electricity at 11 cents per kilowatt-hour. At distances greater than 70 miles, however, the Prius PHEV was the more cost efficient option.

    The Prius can go about 14 miles in pure electric mode before its gas tank kicks in, while the Volt has an electric range of about 35 miles (per the EPA). On the other hand, the Prius PHEV will get 49 MPG in hybrid mode, while the Volt gets 37 MPG. This difference eventually is what causes the price shift.

    Of course, neither car is a gas guzzler and the question for customers eventually becomes whether they need more electric driving range, or total vehicle fuel efficiency, as Plug-in cars mentioned.

    There are some other differences as well. The Prius PHEV will be able to drive in HOV lanes in California because of its low total emissions, while Volt owners will not. The Volt’s large battery pack though, will allow its owners to get the full federal tax credit ($7,500), while Prius PHEV owners will only get $2,500.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    I just knew by your orginal post you never driven a AMERICAN CAR :sick:
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Have DRIVEN, just have never OWNED.

    But don't forget that the Camry is the "most American" car sold in America.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/43562127/The_Most_American_Made_Cars_and_Trucks

    American made models for sale right now.

    Toyota Camry (last ranking 1)
    Honda Accord (last ranking 2)
    Chevy Malibu (last ranking 5)
    Ford Explorer (no last ranking)
    Honda Odyssey (last ranking 6)
    Toyota Sienna (last ranking 10)
    Jeep Wrangler (last ranking 9)
    Chevy Traverse (no last ranking)
    Toyota Tundra (last ranking 8)
    GMC Acadia (no last ranking)
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    edited October 2011
    And this:

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/made-america-us-made-car-creates-jobs/story?id=13813091- -

    Then ABC News traveled to the Ford plant in Kansas City, Mo., and the Toyota plant in Georgetown, Ky., to investigate both cars and find out which one creates the most U.S. jobs. To do that, we had to find the answers to these three questions:

    Is the car assembled here?

    Toyota: Yes, it takes more than 6,000 American workers to build the Camrys we buy. Ford: Yes, it takes 2,250 workers to build the Escape.

    How much of the car contains U.S. parts?

    Toyota Camry: 80 percent. Ford Escape: 65 percent.

    How many cars were sold in a given year?

    Toyota Camry: The most pospular seller, 328,000 were sold last year. Ford Escape: Just under 200,000 were sold in 2010.

    Using that formula, the answer might not be what you think.

    The U.S. brand that creates the most American jobs? The Ford Escape, which creates 13 assembly line jobs for every 100 cars sold, based on 2010 sales figures and company supplied information on how many workers actually man the assembly lines.

    That is good, but doesn't top the Kentucky-built Toyota, which creates almost 20 U.S.-based manufacturing jobs for every 100 cars sold.

    In the end, the Stewarts chose a good ol' American Ford Explorer, with 85 percent of its parts made in America. Although it will not create as many jobs as either the Camry or the Escape because the scale of production is smaller, the Stewarts can still be proud to be supporting jobs in this country with their purchase."


    As can we all.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    When the money helps another country its not American in my book.
  • fushigifushigi Member Posts: 1,459
    So you care about corporate profits more than workers wages. I won't get into a discussion about what that implies, but the argument about "where the profits go" is without merit. The major automakers, both foreign and domestic in origin, are publicly traded companies. Americans can buy stock in Toyota (NYSE: TM) just as easily as they can Ford. So those profits don't have to actually leave the country.

    (Check your retirement fund investments; you may already own stock in multiple major automakers through them.)
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    And the Volt apparently has about 40% US content...

    Then there are the battery cells which are sourced from LG Chem in Korea, the elactric motors which come from Mexico and global ICE that comes from Austria... :sick:
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Another way to look at the Volt. We gave LG Chemical Korea $300 million to build a battery assembly plant in Holland MI. They have 150 workers to assemble the Lithium cells manufactured in Korea. Less than 4000 Volt cars have been delivered to customers. So there are two ways to look at the Volt. We spent $2 million per job or $75,000 per battery. Anyway you cut it the Volt will cost the tax payers a fortune. And they are falling apart in people's driveways. Government Motors. :sick:
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    When the money helps another country its not American in my book.

    Interesting perspective. But then there is no such thing as a new American car, in your book. So if you wish to buy an American car, you are out of luck. Will you be walking from now on?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • mikeystoy5mikeystoy5 Member Posts: 56
    From what I just read about the Volt, there not just falling apart, there real good at catching fire to. One burned to the ground on the NHTSB parking lot, another one was being charged up at the owners house and caught on fire , causing $800,000 damge to the house. They said these will catch on fire if overcharged, under charged, or has been in a accident. The one at NHTSB sat 3 weeks before it burned. Another great car from Garbage Manufacturing.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Allow some corrections:

    1. It caught on fire at NTHSA, 3 weeks after a crash test.

    WASHINGTON -- A Chevrolet Volt that caught fire three weeks after its lithium-ion battery was damaged in a government crash test has regulators taking a harder look at the safety of electric car batteries, federal officials said Friday.

    But based on testing so far, regulators believe the batteries are safe and don't pose a greater fire risk than gasoline-powered engines, a National Highway Traffic Safety Administration official told The Associated Press. The official requested anonymity in order to speak freely.

    The car that caught fire was tested May 12 by an agency contractor at a Wisconsin facility using a relatively new side-impact test intended to replicate crashing into a pole or a tree, the official said. Three weeks later, while the car was parked at the test facility, it caught fire. A NHTSA investigation concluded the crash test damaged the battery, which later led to the fire.

    GM spokesman Greg Martin said the test did not follow procedures developed by GM engineers for handling the Volt after a crash. The engineers tested the Volt's battery pack for more than 300,000 hours to come up with the procedures, which include discharge and disposal of the battery pack, he said.

    "Had those protocols been followed after this test, this incident would not have occurred," he said.


    2. The "other" fire was a garage fire, in which the owner was an electric car tinkerer, and which the local fire marshall said was "not caused by the cars."

    I see why the ultra right hates the Volt, because it signifies that the "Global Warming" people are BOSSING US AROUND !! (dumb)

    But let's put proper blame where proper blame lies, and not blame the technology just because we disagree with Global Warming.
  • mikeystoy5mikeystoy5 Member Posts: 56
    OK, I said the wrong agency, no problem. Lets see now, the car was struck in the side and parked for 3 weeks. Now, were they made aware of all the procedures that those GM engineers said needed to be done, and are all the other automotive an body shops made aware of this, or do you have to take it to the dealer period. As far as the other fire goes, you are correct, it wasn't caused by the car, it was caused by the cars charger. So was the battery over charged to the state of causing it to overheat an catch on fire or what. I might not be an engineer, but I been aroud cars long enough to know. You, on the other hand might be possibly a GM engineer trying to defuse a situation, that as time goes on, maybe something to watch. I'm not one of those people you might think I am, and I'm all for Technology when it's done right and not just thrown out there and say we have a great car here. As far as Global Warming goes, most say it is what it is.
  • fushigifushigi Member Posts: 1,459
    Dude, tin foil is for baking, not headwear. No, the battery wasn't overcharged. If the battery was overcharged & overheated then the car would have properly been named as the source of the fire. It wasn't.

    Here's a little info for you noting not only how the Volt is handled in a crash but some of the testing that's taken place and that GM is providing first-responder training: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2010/08/gmfr-20100827.html Excerpt: The battery pack has been subjected to a wide range of abuse tests, including overcharge, discharge, vibration, excess heat and cold, short circuit, humidity, fire, crush, water immersion, salt water immersion, and nail penetration.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    I'm not a GM engineer.

    And I don't think you are any particular type of person.

    I just prefer to defend the technology.

    When GM has put thousands if not hundreds of thousands of hours testing these cars, they are not going to put something on the road which is a fire hazard.

    And as for cars burning up: gasoline engine cars have burned up exponentially more often than electric cars EVER will.

    Do a little Googling about the extensive safety testing that GM applied to the Volt. They know better than to try and sell a firetrap, when they put so much money into this being a successful car.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited November 2011
    Kind of difficult to call it a successful car. It is not exactly screaming off the dealers lots. I think most sales are between dealers so far. I have only seen one in this hot bed of Hybrid type vehicles. My guess it will go the way of all the other GM attempts to compete in the field.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Gary says, "Kind of difficult to call it a successful car..."

    And premature too.

    Which is why I didn't say "it's NOW a successful car." My point was "GM put a lot of money and time into MAKING this a successful car." The "it's not yet" is to be assumed.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    You keep saying GM put a lot of money into the VOLT. That is NOT true. The Tax payers through the alternative stimulus paid the bulk of the bill. I believe it was $4 billion for Volt R&D.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    2nd electric car battery fire involving Chevy Volt

    WASHINGTON — Federal officials say they are investigating the safety of lithium-ion battery in General Motors Co.'s Chevrolet Volt after a second battery fire following crash-testing of the electric car.

    The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said Friday that three Volt battery packs were crash-tested last week. In one instance, the battery caught fire afterward, and in another the battery emitted smoke and sparks.

    Last May, a fire erupted in the battery of a Chevy Volt that had been damaged during a government crash test three weeks earlier. Last week's tests were an attempt to replicate the May fire.

    NHTSA has opened a formal safety defect investigation of the batteries.

    General Motors officials said previously that government officials didn't follow the carmaker's protocols for storing post-crash batteries.

    The Associated Press
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Here is the key part of that:

    General Motors officials said previously that government officials didn't follow the carmaker's protocols for storing post-crash batteries.
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