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Comments
Also, I'm very interested in what the actual average mpg on the 2008 Civic has been for anyone driving a 2008.
Can't really go wrong with any of these small econoboxes for trouble free, cheap transportation. Isn't that getting to be an oxymoron now like jumbo shrimp? Lol! But seriously, with the future gas prices a big unknown, all great choices.
The Sandman
Also, just look at the '02 Camry and the refresh done with the '05 model.
The Sandman
CRYSTAL BLACK PEARL/BLACK
ATOMIC BLUE METAL/GRAY
ROYAL BLUE PEARL/GRAY
CRYSTAL BLACK PEARL/GRAY
POLISHED METAL METALLIC/GRAY
RALLYE RED/BLACK
ALABASTER SILVER METALLIC/BLACK
ALABASTER SILVER METALLIC/GRAY
TAFFETA WHITE/GRAY
Si Colors
CRYSTAL BLACK PEARL/BLACK
DYNO BLUE PEARL/BLACK
POLISHED METAL METALLIC/BLACK
REDLINE ORANGE PEARL/BLACK
RALLYE RED/BLACK
ALABASTER SILVER METALLIC/BLACK
TAFFETA WHITE/BLACK
Hybrid Colors
ATOMIC BLUE METAL/BEIGE
MAGNETIC PEARL/BLUE
CRYSTAL BLACK PEARL/BEIGE
POLISHED METAL METALLIC/BEIGE
ALABASTER SILVER METALLIC/BLUE
SPECTRUM WHITE PEARL/BLUE
Just got this off of another forum. Did a quick copy/paste. Hybrid is going to get both a cloth and leather model for 09. Looks like some changes in the colors. You can get a black interior on non Si. Don't know about beige on non hybrid. Si gets black only. Hope this helps.
The Sandman
The previous 2003-2005 Accord was accused of having droopy styling on the rear, they made a major update for 2006 (the model of Accord I drive).
Peace!<-AladdinSane<- :shades: -
DX
VP
LX
LX-S
EX
EX-L
SI
I'd expect it to be an LX but with something like alloy wheels and a couple of extra niceties. Look at the LX-P (LX-Premium) Accord Sedan or LX-S (LX-Sport) Accord Coupe to get an idea of the changes from the LX.
The VP (Value Package)...
Honda has usually been based on the base model (DX, in this case) but with things like A/C and Cruise Control added. It is more like a DX with a popular equipment package, usually.
Hope this helps.
This palette may not be final but the 09 Civic is pretty much finalized.
Any takers on a 120hp HX Civic that got, say, 30/40 on the NEW EPA standards?
Car makers just seem to think everybody wants really fast cars (maybe the car mags start this), when it is not really the case. I think my 4-cyl MT Accord is overpowered and would love to have an HX version. Barring that an HX Civic would be extremely tempting.
Having a new model for 5MPG difference is really a waste of money.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/Feg/noframes/17426.shtml
As it is, the 2002 HX makes 4MPG worse than my standard-fare LX.
CVT:Click here for details.
Old EPA : 35/40 (5 mpg better city)
New EPA: 30/36 (5 mpg better city)
5MT:Click here for details.
Old EPA: 36/44 (6 better city, 6 better hwy)
New EPA: 31/40 (5 better city, 6 better hwy)
The current generation of Civic (2006-current) with the 1.8L looks like this, and can be found by clicking here.
5AT:
Old EPA: 30/40
New EPA: 25/36
5MT:
Old EPA: 30/38
New EPA: 26/34
You simply got your numbers mixed up. If you didn't know, the EPA methods were revised for 2008. The link you showed, showed the new numbers for the 2002 HX, and were comparing those to the old, more optimistic numbers for the current Civic that you drive.
The old HX Civic beats the current Civic LX by more MPG than the Civic beats the full-size Accord.
"We have revised the 1985-2007 MPG estimates to make them comparable to the new 2008 and later MPG estimates!"
The EPA figures on that website are using 2008 EPA figures on pre-2008 vehicles. As a matter of fact, had I compared the old EPA figures, the MPG would have looked significantly worse. That said, the old EPA figures almost universally overstated MPG for vehicles, hence the new EPA standards. With the new 2008 EPA standards, many of us (myself included) get *better* MPG than the EPA estimates. In highway-only driving, I very easily get 36MPG (at 80mph, no less), and usually get closer to 40MPG. In stop-and-go city-only driving I routinely get 31MPG. And I'm no grandma. I have an 08 Civic LX, Manual. Check out the actual MPG thread, or go over to 8thcivic forums and see what those of us with non-si's get for actual MPG.
So, back to my point.
When comparing actual MPG between the non-si Civic and the Hybrid, there's just not much room for an HX. The regular civics get great gas mileage (in most cases better than EPA), and because of that, the HX doesn't have a substantial enough market for those who want to get 39MPG over 35MPG, but don't want to pony up the 2 grand for 45MPG. It's just not worth the development cost.
So, you say there is no market for an HX with the LX out there - weren't both on the market for 10+ years? Did Honda keep making HX's for 10 years because there was no market for them due to the LX?
"We have revised the 1985-2007 MPG estimates to make them comparable to the new 2008 and later MPG estimates!"
Right. Which is why the HX CVT gets 30/36 under 2008 rules versus an LX Auto getting 25/36. The Manual version of the HX gets 31/40mpg under the new estimates, versus 26/34 for the current LX manual, thus showing that the old Civic HX gets 5-6 mpg better than a current 1.8L Civic.
It's what I said in the first place, my friend.
With the new 2008 EPA standards, many of us (myself included) get *better* MPG than the EPA estimates.
As do I in my Accord; who is to say you wouldn't beat the estimates in the HX just as well?
It'll be interesting to see if Honda offers on the Civic an improved R18 with the Advanced VTEC valvetrain, which may improve fuel efficiency another 10-12%.
Actually, Honda demonstrated its Advanced VTEC prototype engine some two years ago, just about the time of the introduction of the current generation Civic. So there's still hope we might just see an Advanced VTEC R18 as early as the beginning of calendar year 2009.
Right now, the Civic is a class-leader in fuel economy anyway, although it is down a few horsepower to vehicles like the Cobalt and Mazda 3i.
What's interesting is that Mazda3 sales have been hurt by the fact the Duratec I-4 engines have much poorer fuel economy compared to the excellent R18 engine the Civic uses. Small wonder why there's been a lot of incentives to try to sell more Mazda3's here in the USA.
I'd love to see a sales chart!
I could not agree with you more. If the 148 bhp engine had the 5AT unit, I think Mazda could likely improve especially the EPA highway rating quite a bit, because at freeway speeds it means the engine could rev at lower RPM's for better fuel efficiency.
Since Mazda is 33.9% owned by Ford, the next-generation Mazda3 now in late development could end up using the Powershift dual-clutch transmission Ford co-developed with Getrag (it's already available on certain European Ford Focus models). Given that Powershift is a six-speed unit, that could result in excellent fuel economy regardless of engine installed in the new Mazda3 (which is rumored to arrive spring 2009 worldwide).
CRYSTAL BLACK PEARL/BLACK
ATOMIC BLUE METAL/GRAY
ROYAL BLUE PEARL/GRAY
CRYSTAL BLACK PEARL/GRAY
POLISHED METAL METALLIC/GRAY
RALLYE RED/BLACK
ALABASTER SILVER METALLIC/BLACK
ALABASTER SILVER METALLIC/GRAY
TAFFETA WHITE/GRAY
Sedan Colors
CRYSTAL BLACK PEARL/GRAY
ATOMIC BLUE METAL/GRAY
URBAN TITANIUM METALLIC/BEIGE
ROYAL BLUE PEARL/GRAY
POLISHED METAL METALLIC/GRAY
TANGO RED PEARL/BEIGE
ALABASTER SILVER METALLIC/GRAY
TAFFETA WHITE/BEIGE
No black on the sedan. I didn't have access to it. LX gets less color/interior choices. The DX trim will be the base trim. VP will also be available. The VP is probably a DX with AC and a radio/cd player. No VP coupe. Just LX as the base for the coupe. LX-S is also coming out which is in between the LX and EX. Hope this helps.
The Sandman
Just spitballing here, using the previous 2005 LX Special Edition and Accord LX-P as a guide.