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2009 Honda Civic

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Comments

  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    Wonder if they'll just shod the car with the EX alloys which do look pretty nice. Wanted to be different and went with the alloys from the '04-'05 SI models. A unique look and you don't see them on every other Civic in town. Got a killer deal on EBAY also...won my 1st time out!

    The Sandman :)
  • danny6285danny6285 Member Posts: 3
    It just sounds like the trim levels are going to get more confusing. If I'm reading correctly, coupe base will become LX but adding LX-S, then EX. Will the base LX be watered down with the black door handles, etc.? Will there be an LX-S sedan and how will that be different from a VP? The current DX, LX, EX seems to be how it's been for a long time, they should just re-configure the features a bit across the board without confusing future customers with additional letter designations. But hey, that's just me. I'm interested to see what "Polished Metal Metallic" looks like. Has anyone noticed how misleading the Galaxy Gray Metallic color looks in the Civic brochure compared to how it actually looks in person? Although this does seem to be the color I see most on the road...
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    Have this color and can't understand how they got gray as the color...looks more like a pearlized green to me. great color though...get lots of compliments on it and also on the Honda rims I have.

    The Sandman :)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    This certainly isn't the first time Honda has added models to fill the gaps in the existing "DX/LX/EX" models.

    Will the base LX be watered down with the black door handles, etc.? Will there be an LX-S sedan and how will that be different from a VP?

    Here's how it'll likely be, danny, if the past is a good guide.

    DX models won't change (if they still exist).

    VP models are a step-up from a DX. Think of it as a DX with a convenience package. In the past the VP has added things like standard A/C, a stereo, and a couple of other minor upgrades. The A/C and stereo would be the main ones. Pricing should split the gap from DX to LX.

    LX models will not change much.

    LX-S models will split the gap in an LX and an EX, much like the VP does with the DX and LX. You can look for things such as upgraded wheels, possibly an upgraded stereo, and possibly audio controls on the steering wheel; these wouldn't be all the upgrades, but give you an idea. Pricing should split the difference in LX and EX models.

    These models are not meant to make things more confusing, but instead to provide more options to buyers who want some uplevel features but can't afford the big price jumps in DX, LX, and EX.

    Now that gas prices are SO high, the Civic will be on a lot of shoppers' radars. Being competitive with prices and trim levels will help ensure people drive home in new Civics instead of Corollas, Cobalts, etc.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I think the trim picture will get even worse. VSC has to be added in somehow. Since Honda doesn't like to do options, what we'll be looking at for 2009 trims is something like this (assuming VSC is widely available):

    DX
    DX VSC
    DX AT
    DX AT VSC
    LX
    LX VSC
    LX AT
    LX AT VSC
    LX-S
    LX-S VSC
    LX-S AT
    LX-S AT VSC
    EX
    EX VSC
    EX AT
    EX AT VSC
    EX-L
    EX-L VSC
    EX-L AT
    EX-L AT VSC
    EX-L navi
    EX-L navi VSC
    EX-L navi AT
    EX-L navi AT VSC

    Of course, Honda might simplify this trim structure by making VSC standard on the higher-line trims, and/or not making VSC available at all on the lower trim levels (ala 2009 Fit). But any way you slice it.... it's a lot of trims! :confuse:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Now backy, surely you don't count a transmission option or the option of VSA as a trim level!

    Don't look for VSA to be optional on Civics; expect it to be standard on some/all Civics, or not at all. You won't find it as an "option" I'll bet.

    It'll be DX, VP, LX, LX-S, EX, EX-L. Transmission choice will be optional, as will NAVI on EX and EX-L models.

    That's my bet.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Sorry, that's not how Honda does it. Honda doesn't do options. So a stick and AT are two different trim levels. Leather isn't an option, but a trim level. Navi isn't an option, but a trim level. And as we have seen with the trims for the 2009 Fit (refer to that discussion for details), VSC makes for different trim levels--although it's very simple on the Fit because the only trims on which VSC is additive as additional trims is on the Sport with Navi and Sport with AT and Navi.

    I'll take your bet that we will not see VSC as an "option" on ANY Civic. It will be part of the trim levels.

    Don't blame me for it!! :sick:

    Edit: Check out post 105 of the 2009/2010 Fit discussion. It gives the trims for the 2009 Fit as follows:

    GE8729EW 2009 FIT 5DR 5MT KA
    GE8749EW 2009 FIT 5DR SPORT 5MT KA
    GE8769GW 2009 FIT 5DR SPORT VSA&NAV 5MT KA
    GE8829EW 2009 FIT 5DR 5AT KA
    GE8849EW 2009 FIT 5DR SPORT 5AT KA
    GE8869GW 2009 FIT 5DR SPORT VSA&NAV 5AT KA

    Notice that the transmission choices, nav/no nav choice, and VSA/no VSA choice are part of the trim levels, not options

    So depending on whether Honda always includes VSA with Nav and/or Nav and leather on the Civic, the trim levels will be along the lines I laid out, maybe with some consolidation at the top end and some simplification at the bottom end if Honda doesn't put VSC on all models, all the way down to DX.

    Or as you said, they could do the simple thing, the right thing for safety, and make VSC standard across the board, like they did ABS for the 2006 Civic.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Tell me this:

    How can you define a difference in trim level vs. option in a Corolla LE with an automatic transmission and a Civic LX with automatic transmission?

    There's no difference as far as I can tell. They sit on the lot the same way, and are listed on the sticker in that way. The difference is that the Corolla will have MORE options.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Correct. The Corollla, and Toyotas in general, will have more options--actually they will have options period--than Hondas. It's just how different companies package their cars. Some have lots of options and fewer trims, some have lots of trims and few or no options. When you look at them on a lot, you can't tell whether the transmission or leather or whatnot is an option or trim--unless you look at the window sticker. There is a difference there. An option will be itemized on the sticker, like how Toyota itemizes ESC on the Corolla. On the Civic, it will be included in the trim designation, or perhaps as a standard feature, and there will be no separate charge for it on the sticker.

    But maybe one of our resident Honda sales folks will set the record straight on how Honda handles trims and options, specifically with the Civic but also in general.
  • sparklandsparkland Member Posts: 120
    "Polished metal metallic" is beautiful. It would be the color of choice for my Ridgeline if they offered it in that color. The 2008 Accord has that color and it looks marvelous. Really professional and sleek looking.

    The VSC will be required soon on all cars, so who really knows how many trim levels it will come on initially this year.

    We love our 2008 Civic. The EX's are really in short supply at the moment. Quite a few 2-doors left on the lots.

    Brad
  • danny6285danny6285 Member Posts: 3
    gah! I just looked up the polished metal and found it on a new Accord coupe. that is exactly the color I wish was out when I got my Civic in January. In fact, Polished Metal is what Galaxy Gray looks like in the Civic brochure. It's similar to that mica pearl color you see the Scion Tc in (greenish/gray). I'm anxious to see how the Civic will evolve for 2009...
  • amkingamking Member Posts: 16
    any idea when the 09's will be released?

    when did honda start offering the 08's last year?

    other than maybe some different color options, the main issue i have with the car is the parking break location (rubs my knee).
  • obieobie Member Posts: 39
    Has any one heard of any changes to external appearance of the Civic? Any photos out there?
  • xxyxxy Member Posts: 16
    Found this link hope it helps.
    http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2009-honda-civic.htm
  • xxyxxy Member Posts: 16
    To me it is looking more like an Accord, hopefully the price will not match the price, I plan to keep my 08 Civic for a long time. It is a great car.
  • gasmizrgasmizr Member Posts: 40
    I checked the posted link and the interior looks the same. I am guessing that is not an updated picture. Any news yet on if they are moving the PB. I want the Civic and I keep sitting in it and driving it and that PB is a real deal breaker. Thanks for any updates. I am getting ready to give my 1996 to my daughter. So I need to purchase something soon.
  • cz75cz75 Member Posts: 210
    http://jalopnik.com/398624/2009-honda-civic-hybrid-sedan-gets-a-face-lift
  • 3kidsinback3kidsinback Member Posts: 74
    It sounds like ESC may still be an option for 2009. Am thinking about a 2007 which of course does not have ESC. Is there really a driving difference? Isn't the antilock EBD kind of like traction control as you brake? (a 'poor man's' ESC?).
    I live in a snowy area (about 3 months out of the year)...May consider a domestic or Korean 2009 if ESC is standard.
  • cz75cz75 Member Posts: 210
    EBD just helps the car brake more evenly under load - it is essentially an electronic proportioning valve.
  • 3kidsinback3kidsinback Member Posts: 74
    So, in your opinion, knowing that standard ESC is coming, would you wait for a 2009 or try to get a "deal" on an earlier model? The evidence for ESC is very compelling...
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Where did you hear that ESC will be standard on the 2009 Civic? I know it will be available, but I hadn't seen anything yet saying it would be standard.
  • cz75cz75 Member Posts: 210
    I'd wait.

    I have it already on the Si, but I've never noticed any part of it work other than the traction control program. I guess I don't over-drive enough.
  • 3kidsinback3kidsinback Member Posts: 74
    Sorry, I thought I read (earlier in this forum) where it will be standard. I see there is some question as to if it will be standard or not. That would be unfortunate because Honda should have made this feature standard in 2006, given their policy of "safety for all". More and more small cars will have this as standard or at least a popular option. I checked out the 1.8L 2009 Vibe and it has standard stability control/traction control on all trim lines (it's mate, the matrix, oddly has this as an option). I would like to buy soon due to the questionable economy and gas prices. Am driving a CRV and get about 22mpg, would love to get 29/30 +.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I'd love to see Honda step up as VW has done and make ESC standard across their lineup. At least every 2009 Honda will have ESC available, but it would be nice if, for example, the 2009 Civic VP coupe would come with ESC (VSA). That would make a great next car for me, and it would go to my daughter next and I know she'd like the coupe also. And I'd like the fact she's driving a car with exceptional active and passive safety.
  • cz75cz75 Member Posts: 210
    I guess if I were worried about getting as much safety as possible, I'd also make sure I had four wheel disc brakes too.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Yes, I agree. That's why I have cars like the Elantra SE (or Touring) and Optima ahead of the Civic on my shopping list. :)
  • 3kidsinback3kidsinback Member Posts: 74
    Yes, the Vibe does have 4 wheel disc standard. I didn't realize that the Civic does not. For the unaware (i.e. me) how are discs better than drums? FYI, I heard the Elantra GLS will have ESC option for 2009.
  • cz75cz75 Member Posts: 210
    Disc are better insofar as they dry better after getting wet and they are easier to modulate when you don't have ABS. Drums are self-energizing as the shoes are "pulled" into the brake drum by the forward momentum of the drum, which makes their application more tricky, especially in panic stops, at least w/o ABS. ABS isn't a cure-all however, since it is a reactive solution.

    Discs also cool better and seem to be easier to get more surface area (which is why they cool better) available to be acted on by the clamping forces produced by the brake piston (swept area). Don't let the idea of more available force fool you, as tires are responsible for the lion's share of a car's braking, being that they are what actually grips the road. However, the ability to generate this force sooner and more evenly can reduce braking distances.

    Rear drums aren't terrible, since the majority of a car's braking is done up front, which is why front brakes are larger (Or at least more massive, by weight; many trucks use larger diameter less massive discs in rear. Why? I assume that it is for the potential to exert more leverage in high load situations; obviously not a factor where drums are involved, as they are still in many trucks.) However, it's really that extra edge when it counts that makes them worthwhile.

    Typically, drum equipped vehicles don't stop with the same authority as the same model with optional rear discs, but it may be only a ten percent difference between them. I like that kind of margin and appreciate having brakes that are more capable than I need, since that ten percent is around a car length. Additionally, since discs cool better, the difference might even be more dramatic after driving down a long hill, or in heavy traffic with lots of stops that heat up the brakes.
  • 3kidsinback3kidsinback Member Posts: 74
    Thank you for a very thoughtful reply!

    I think I'm going for the Elantra SE due to safety and price. The Civic LX can't match the features of the Elantra SE. In 2008, ESC should be standard in every car. I saw a Consumer Reports video where a father is suing an automaker for not having ESC in a car that his daughter died in.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    OMG. While it is very sad the girl died, it is ridiculous that the father is blaming the automaker for not including a feature on a car that HE decided to buy (or perhaps his daughter made the decision), when the feature was available on other cars that he could have bought. No personal responsibility these days...
  • cz75cz75 Member Posts: 210
    I think the Hyundai is a good choice for anyone who wants a car just for the A to B. I bought a Civic Si because I wanted more than that. Honda definitely offers less than its competitors, except for Toyota, for the same or more money, excluding the Si. The Mazda3 may also be a good choice, but I don't believe that they are quite as well built as Honda and their A/C system seemed to have a problem for the first few years, which I experienced first-hand. The ten-year warranty goes a long way toward covering whatever minimal deficit Hyundai has in quality to Honda and Toyota.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    That deficit is pretty much zero these days, IMO. But there is a Honda Civic vs. Hyundai Elantra discussion here that would be more suitable to this discussion. :)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    imageimage
    Things to note: Larger, mesh grille opening, extra air inlets in the front bumper, amber blinkers.

    More photos can be seen here (that are larger format than I've used here) at this link and at this one.
  • jiminthehillsjiminthehills Member Posts: 60
    For those of you with the inside track on info, what are the chances the non-Si models will upgrade from the 5 Speed to the 6 speed trans? It seems that Honda could compete even better on MPG's if they went to a taller final drive ratio on the MT cars to get back up with the MPG's that the auto trans currently enjoys.....
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I'd say very unlikely. Honda is going to spend as little as possible to retool and change the current Civic. If it ain't broke, they ain't gonna fix it!

    Civic sales are off the charts right now, as it stands.
  • jiminthehillsjiminthehills Member Posts: 60
    I agree about spending as little as possible, as it's not needed to make a popular car sell even better, but what are the retooling costs?

    Honda already has the trans and they already have all the parts and trim pieces to easily swap it into the non-Si cars. I'm sure potential buyers would gladly pay the additional few hundred bucks for the upgraded trans knowing it will pay for itself with the increase in mileage. Honda gets to boast about even better mileage as well as having a real economy car with a 6 speed.

    It seems to be a no brainer to me.....
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Who knows - people might be more annoyed with the fact that they'd need to downshift on hills because of the combination of meager torque and a taller ratio. In the automatic it takes no more effort.
  • rv65rv65 Member Posts: 1,076
    Expect something on August 5th. The good news is that the stuff that was rumored here is very close to production. Maybe we will get that USB port afterall.
  • tiger72tiger72 Member Posts: 21
    but then you lose some of the "zippiness" that defines the vehicle. At less than 140hp, a 6 speed is overkill - especially when you notice that the Civic's (and most Hondas in general) sweet spot is higher RPM. Mileage *may* increase, but people would shift too much and get too little performance staying at lower RPM...
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    I had a 100hp 1.6 l Corolla wagon that pulled 2100 rpm at 60 mph. Why does the Civic need 2500 rpm to do the same. I think another gear would be welcome. Since I like to shift (hence the purchase of the MT) in the first place, an occasional downshift on the highway would not be a problem.

    I even used to have 74 hp 1.7 liter VW Passat (Quantum) with a stick and it also did 2100 rpm at 60 mph. This was in 1983 when everybody was trying to be real efficient. 5th gear was not labeled with a 5, but with an E for economy. The car would do 96 mph in 3rd gear and both 4th and 5th were overdrives.

    I do understand that I am in the minority and honda (and others) are always fearful these days of promoting economy and efficiency because it screams "cheap". Why build and efficinet affordable wagon when you can make an inneficient SUV that has less room and provides greater profits. This has been the mantra - hopefully changing now.

    The only way they can sell the MT is as a performance option hence the short gearing. After all they even killed the lean burn civics because economy did not sell. Hopefully this will change now that gas prices are high. I also never did understand why they put the most efficient engine in the least efficient body style. Seemed like you were alienating everybody with that move. A 4 door hatch or wagon would have had much more appeal to the "efficiency" types.
  • tiger72tiger72 Member Posts: 21
    I'm going to have to agree with you on quite a bit here. First of all, the reason the new Civic needs more RPM and a bigger engine to go the same speed is that it's pulling a much heavier vehicle. Today's civic is loaded with electronics, more space, more safety equipment, etc.. - all which add to the vehicle's weight.

    You're not in the minority for fuel efficiency - if you were, the ugly-as-hell Prius wouldn't sell, and the Honda Civic wouldn't have taken over the #1 car sold in America slot from the Ford F150. The Civic comes in a "normal" economy car - the DX/LX/EX, and it comes in a Hybrid which easily gets the rated 45MPG+. So I absolutely fail to see where your assertion that Honda is fearful of promoting economy because it doesn't sell comes from. Probably a 1/3 of all Civic sedans I see are hybrids.

    Honda even used to sell a manual tranny hybrid until 2005. It was discontinued for a number of reasons, one being a lack of sales. The other is notably that when compared to a CVT, a manual transmission isn't nearly as efficient.

    So, if you want pristine fuel economy, get the 110hp CVT Hybrid. Hell, you can expect better average fuel economy in the CVT LX/EX over the Manual tranmission on the same trim levels. But if you want to control your car driving experience, get a manual and suffer the hit.

    For "efficiency" types - there's the Fit.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Everybody was fearfull of economy until this year. Most car ads did not even show the mpg, yet the hp was often in larger type than the cars name.

    A 140 hp Civic can easily pull a taller gear. The Corolla did it with just as much weight. Remember, my 74 hp Quantum was a midsize not a small car. Even in 1983 it weighed nearly as much as todays Civic. Occasional down shift on the highway - so what I bought the manual because I enjoy shifting.

    I have an Accord now and it could also easily pull a much taller gear. Right now it easily goes up moderate hills at 45 mph in 5th gear. I have never had to downshift on any highway. Currently it is about 2380 rpm at 60 mph. It could easily do 2,000 or 2,100 if it had a 6th gear.

    We are just spoiled with power. Look at Europe and see a 518i. This was a while back, but this is a 5 series with the same engine size as the current Civic (the current 5 series has a 2.0 liter base engine). It did fine driving through the Alps and on the autobahn. Why do we need so much more to drive around the beltway on the way to work.
  • tiger72tiger72 Member Posts: 21
    If everybody was so fearful of fuel economy, as you say, then why are Toyota and Honda so profitable, while GM and Ford have been losing money and cutting jobs for years? I don't believe i've ever seen Honda push horsepower unless it was their Civic si or Accord V6. Otherwise, they ALWAYS promoted their fuel efficiency and value. The same goes for most of the asian car manufacturers. By "most" car ads, I am going to assume that you're referring almost exclusively to American cars.

    If fuel economy wasn't a selling point and important to people before 2008, then why did Honda use a new form of i-VTEC in it's non-si civic trims that is geared towards fuel economy, and not performance as it was in years past, as well as in the current si engine? Honda cars are high RPM cars, and the new fuel-efficient i-VTEC is working under 3500 RPM. In an American vehicle, 3500RPM is pretty high - in a Honda it's where it just starts opening up.
  • heybroderheybroder Member Posts: 78
    Sorry guys, I can't believe that Honda hasn't offered an automatic transmission for the Si the past couple years. My wife and I love performance and quality. We are looking at Honda and Scion. By the time we add a few low cost "goodies" to the Scion, we'll have right at 170 horse or a little more. Yep, it come with an automatic. If Honda doesn't offer AGAIN, an automatic transmission for the Si, we simply will get the Scion. We love the looks of both but the Honda Si is more sporty looking. Does anyone out there know for sure that Honda will or will not offer an automatic transmission concerning the 2009 Si? :shades:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Get the Scion.

    The Si's engine is VERY peaky in nature, and would be completely neutered with an automatic, therefore I don't look for Honda to do it; just as they didn't in the similarly peaky, low-torque S2000 Roadster.
  • heybroderheybroder Member Posts: 78
    We understand fully what you are talking about! tyvm for replying!! Yep, Scion is our choice! God bless, Randy and Pam www.raptureready.com is an awesome site :shades:
  • cz75cz75 Member Posts: 210
    It will never happen, so no need to wait. I'd look at a Mazda3 before the Scion, if you like a sport suspension and excellent brakes, as the Scion is a poseur with only pretensions toward anything sporting.
  • jiminthehillsjiminthehills Member Posts: 60
    "Occasional down shift on the highway - so what I bought the manual because I enjoy shifting. " - dudleyr

    Exactly my point as well. I would buy a 6 MT Civic EX and downshift whenever it was necessary, without any complaints, because that's where the fun is!

    The milage boost would be an added perk as well as the cool factor of having the only economy car with a 6 speed. Besides all that, the SI 6 MT is one of the favorite manuals of all time, according to the major magazines.

    I think Honda should do it.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The milage boost would be an added perk as well as the cool factor of having the only economy car with a 6 speed.

    Uh... no.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Besides all that, the SI 6 MT is one of the favorite manuals of all time, according to the major magazines."

    Uhhh, favorite maybe, that is until the 3rd gear syncro starts doing its little act.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
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