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Buying a Vehicle with Cash, Check or Credit Card
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Comments
I don't mind paying a doc fee, if it is reasonable, and if the total amount (car price plus doc fee) are in the range I have in mind, but I hate being lied to about why they "have" to charge me a doc fee.
When we send your deal to the bank there system automatically bounces you against the watch list. We are set up so that when we pull your equifax bureau it automatically checks you. If we don't do it guess what
All U.S. persons must comply with OFAC regulations, including all U.S. citizens and permanent resident aliens regardless of where they are located, all persons and entities within the United States, all U.S. incorporated entities and their foreign branches. In the cases of certain programs, such as those regarding Cuba and North Korea, all foreign subsidiaries owned or controlled by U.S. companies also must comply. Certain programs also require foreign persons in possession of U.S. origin goods to comply. How much are the fines for violating these regulations? The fines for violations can be substantial. Depending on the program, criminal penalties can include fines ranging from $50,000 to $10,000,000 and imprisonment ranging from 10 to 30 years for willful violations. Depending on the program, civil penalties range from $11,000 to $1,000,000 for each violation.
I am not going to the big house for 30 years for any one
This site tells you allot about it.
http://www.treasury.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/
I think part to blame is instant gratification culture - people want the car now, dealers want the deal now. Nobody wants to wait until next business day. When my dad bought his car (in Poland), he made a money transfer for the agreed amount and and brought the coupon with him. Of course everything took a few days total.
I say - if they're not is willing to wait - check their credit. If they would rather wait until it clears - two IDs and the check has to be enough. No matter how stupid their reasons are, their credit is their business. They pay cash (or equivalent) so dealer has no business to snoop in their credit.
As a business I probably may have some kind of insurance against fraud. It probably will have set of stipulation, saying what steps to take before one could make a claim. One of it may be credit check and then you may tell the stranger "it is our insurance that requires that".
Are you saying there is no electronic verification system for cashier checks? I'm surprised to hear that.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Credit check is not necessary. The law does not state "thou shall check a person's credit". Your system is simply set for your convenience to show your "due diligence" in front of officials. There is a difference.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
WHAT ? You’re telling us it ain’t the LAW and we wasted the better part of yesterday learning that it was ?
Let me guess, the real answer is:
“It all depends on the state where the car is being purchased” !!! :surprise:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Yes there is. We are set up with tele-check. We can run your check through there system and if the check bounces then they pay it and chase the money, UNLESS we accept a check that is written on a bogus account or is involved in a check scam. Meaning if we did not take due diligence in verifying the customer is who they say there are and are not a con artist, which brings us back to why we want to pull your bureau to see if you are who you say you are.
Not to mention that this is just another service that we have to pay for that consumers never really think about.
Diners Club 3.2% (Have not seen one in years)
Amex 2.7%
Discover 1.8%
Visa/MC 1.73%
So on LR's customer that wanted to put $100K on his card that would have been $2700 fee
“It all depends on the state where the car is being purchased” !!!
Yeah, that is my understanding as well.
As just about all retail transactions today are done by credit card all businesses comprehend those fees in setting their prices.
Are we talking cashier's check or personal? If it's personal, I see no reason for instant gratification anyway, as it is only an authorization to draw money that may or may not be there (no credit check required - just plain old waiting). If it's cashier's - that your verification system should pick up on a bogus account.
Things don't add up in your claims, Joel. I'm more and more convinced it's just a plain old CYA and instant gratification. There is really nothing wrong with that as long as everybody involved understands it. You want your car now - we check your credit. Can wait - we don't need to know if you owe $2000 to SEARS. If two IDs is enough proof for the Homeland Security, Driver's license office, bank and many others and you can either wait for funds to clear or have a verification system for instant check there is no need to know where else I spend my money and on what.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
That may be so, but in a supermarket you simply don't know it (nobody shows you invoice for butter). In car sales deals are taken apart to invoice, holdback and Christmas bonus - so then credit card fee becomes a legit part of the cost. If it's too high, consumer may have to cover it in the final product price - and we know what's gonna happen then. "I'd rather pay cash/check".
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Hell ya it is. There is no law until you get in trouble for it then it is enough to close the doors of your business. I never caught in the debate that we were discussing if the law says I can pull your bureau. There is no law that says "we can pull your credit" but there is a law that says if you are on the OFAC watch list and I sell you a car then you can be fined up to $1,000,000 and go to prison for up to 30 years, and our way to check you if your not financing is to pull your bureau.
How mad would you be if you put a fraud alert in your bureau because your identityty was stolen and some POS was ruining your life and they came to me and used your identity and check book to buy a car and I didn't stop them because I never saw the fraud alert because I did not take the time to pull your bureau and verify your identity?
Good question. If I had fraud alert and checks already canceled your check verify system would reject it before you got to check my records. If you accepted check without that verification, I'm not liable for it anyway, as the bank has already canceled it. If the guy asks for credit then you check my credit and see fraud alert. If the guy paid cash then my name on the car has no consequence to my finance at point of sale. It might later - but if the ID was marked as stolen and wrong address given I believe vehicle registration should pick that up. Again - convenient yes, necessary no.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Sorry Mack, not going back there until they have my car. Put a deposit on it in June and still has not arrrived. It will be serveral weeks still And they must have mixed up your credit with someone else, or maybe you're a victim of identity theft from having your info out there. :P
I don't fault dealer for limiting CC amounts at all. Those fees can really eat into margins. Besides, they would have to charge another processing fee to make up for it. Of course I always max the limit and was amazed when one let me put $40K on credit.
Anyone that has purchased jewelry will know that it's a cash payment dominated business as well. You get discounts of up to 3% for paying by cash.
Anytime there are low gross margin percentages and large transaction values, payment fees can be very important. The big guys can negotiate fees of lees than 1%.
Bingo! That's what I was having trouble understanding from them. It's more convenient and standard procedure for them to run a credit report for everything. It's not the law. I'll make sure they are comfortable of being paid as I have have full confidence that the money will be there and payment will be made. If I did let them run the credit, it would be a sea of green.
In the last year I have received a letter from my CC company and my online broker informing me of information lapses which resulted in exposure of my personal information. But don't worry, nothing happened. Yeah right! I have put fraud watches on my credit and if I lived in a state that allowed me to prevent unauthorized access for a fee, I would. I get so many unsolicited offers of credit that I do not want or need. Am I a bit sensitive about this. Hell yes.
I probably should have added more context to the question for clarity, but the debate was interesting none the less. But as I said, I think we've beat this to death. Anymore stories?
You're with TD Ameritrade, too, huh? I got a letter in the mail. I'll have to check my junk email account for the email.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Shouldn't that be covered by those exorbitant document fees?
"Shouldn't that be covered by those exorbitant document fees?"
Actually, even just ONE inquiry can knock your score down up to 5 points! :surprise: Why get your credit slammed when it's not necessary?
I'm not sure why dealers let customers take a car before receiving payment, but it seems to be a relatively common practice.
I have purchased two cars in the past two years, from different dealers in different states. In both cases, they've let me drive away KNOWING I didn't have the funds in my checking account to cover the check I wrote them for the vehicle.
On my last purchase, I told them upfront that I keep my cash in a money market account, and it would take a few days to be transferred to my checking account. They said "no problem, we'll just hold the check until next week and you can take the car now."
When I got the money transferred to my checking account, I learned the bank holds any deposit over $5K for 5 business days to verify the funds. I told the dealer this and they said, "OK, we'll just hold it until the following week"
As a result, they did not cash my check for a full 12 days after I took delivery of the car. I did fill out a short "five liner" credit app. But they never once verified that I actually had the money to pay for the car.
Incorrect, that is a myth. Multiple inquiries from the same industry in a 30 day period count as one inquiry.
Go to my profile an look under "My Guides" I have an article posted there from Equifax called "Understanding you credit score" It addresses that.
Note: Inquiry de-duping – For a 45 day period multiple auto inquiries are treated as one and multiple mortgage inquiries are treated as one.
I have seen many of these reports and to tell the truth I have yet to see one that has a physical description of the person on it. Which begs the question how do you know the person sitting across the desk from you is the person named on the account?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
And speaking of driving off before paying -
A year ago when I was picking up a new Mustang GT the finance guy said, "Well, for whatever reason, we haven't got approval on the loan yet," shrugged his shoulders, and off I drove. Seemed strange to me at the time but it's probably not unusual given some other tales told here.
There is more in your bureau then just how well you pay your bills.
Besides the obvious the biggest thing I am looking for is a fraud alert and if I am not comfortable I will ask you questions I already know the answer to from info in the bureau. So how long did you live in De moines? Where do you work at?
BTW the obvious I am looking for as I said earlier is if you have bad credit or a history of bad checks. If you do then I will not deliver the car.
I actually find it quite humorous when people raise hell about it and bring up the old BS about one inquiry lowering there score 5 points. As I pointed out to one lady late one night who told us on the phone that she has excellent credit, therefore I stayed open 90 minutes past closing time till she got here, she had a 514 beacon, she blamed it on inquiries, Mam its not the 6 inquiries you had this month, its the 2 repossession and the foreclosure that is killing you. She though her credit was still good because the repo's were voluntary.
If your score dropped 5 points every time you credit is pulled then it would be different from one dealer to the next or one bank to the next. I would like to ring the neck of the chuckle head who started that myth.
This is interesting as I have never inquired about my "score"
I wonder if next time I look on a dealers lot at the latest shiny new stuff he would tell me how I rate. Or aren't they allowed to divulge findings?
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
What major life altering effect does having your bureau pulled have? I just don't get it.
Hell all the utility companies pull them, the cable guy, etc and you are not financing with them, you just want $30 worth of water a month. But they want to see if you are worth the risk.
Thats what I am doing, are you worth the risk to let you take our $35K car off the lot on Saturday night with nothing but a check that I can't cash till Monday. I doubt you would run a business any different.
https://www.annualcreditreport.com/cra/index.jsp
Because the three reports contain essentially the same information, you may want to query one of the big three every four months. Because joint accounts (if you are married) contain the same information, you may query two of the agencies every four months: one under your name and another under your wife's name.
Almost all reports contain some faulty information: closed accounts listed as open, open accounts that don't exist, typos, etc. Simply request that the report be corrected.
MIB, Inc. collects information regarding life and health insurance. Call 866-692-6901 for a free report.
C.L.U.E. collects information about your driving record, automobile claims and property insurance. Call 866-312-8076 for a Personal Property Report and an Auto Report or perhaps your auto agent will supply a copy.
If you have been an identity theft victim, both ChexSystems (800-428-9623) and SCAN Consumer Reports (800-262-7771) collect information regarding fraudulent banking activity.
Be prepared to supply personal information (SSN, make of car, etc) to prove your identity.
Big Brother is watching you very closely. :shades:
Thats funny. Kind of like saying, Simply tell the dealer you want $20K off sticker
There is nothing simple about it. It takes due dilligence on the part of the consumer to get a bureau corrected.
They can put neg in your bureau with the click of a button but it takes an act of congress to get it removed.
Can't you just ask what the buy rate is? I admit I have no expereince in financing at a dealer, but I did consider a lease on a vehicle that had heavy lease only incentives. In this case, I asked what the mf was and if it was the buy rate. They quickly admitted the mf was marked up, but dropped it to the buy rate in discussions.
It's not, but why do it if you don't need to? (To avoid starting the debate again, just assume that satifactory assurance of payment is provided by other means) :shades:
Yeah, if you're leasing. MF means nothing on a purchase.
If you don't like a store, don't shop there!
If you don't like the rate a dealer offers you, get your own financing or better yet, pay cash!
Then they will go pay the pizza guy for the bounced check and pay off the department store that charged them off.
Once this has been done, they think everything should be just fine on their credit report!
Doesn't work that way!
Let's dispense with the insults.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
MYTH! if that one inquiry is followed by 20 more in the next week, then maybe....
I have purchased two cars in the past two years, from different dealers in different states. In both cases, they've let me drive away KNOWING I didn't have the funds in my checking account to cover the check I wrote them for the vehicle."
because the dealer has a way to verify your bank account, not to mention they have your address so they can find you if they need to repo the car.
Even when you finance the car, the dealer lets you take it without the car being paid for. It takes a while before the bank will pay on the contract for the loan. Most everything in this business is done in good faith.
well, if they did steal a persons identity, then they would have to register the car to that person, and the title would go to the victim of the identity theft, thus doing the thief almost no good.
yeah, i can't believe we, as a business, are out to actually make money!!!!
you sure can, but it doesn't mean you will get the truthfull answer or that some customers would believe it. Its just like invoices, you can show them to everyone, but every now and then you get a customer who says, i know a friend of a friend's cousin who used to make up those invoices so they aren't real anyway.