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Classic Musclecars

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  • gcazellgcazell Member Posts: 1
    help! i have a great problem, but need some advice: 1970 Chevelle SS 396/ 350

    just inherited it from my Calif. mom (75 and was still driving it!). if I want to restore it (really only needs paint job), how do i start?

    anything that i shouldn't do?

    how do you find someone to do good paint work?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Okay.....

    DON'T change the color
    DON'T have Earl Scheib or Miracle paint it
    DON'T spend more than $10,000 restoring the car
    DON'T do a "tape" job...strip the car's chrome, glass and trim and paint everything, including door jams and, if needed, under the hood and in the trunk.
    DON'T forget to clean and detail the undercarriage.
    DON'T start the bodywork until you've done the mechanicals.
  • zl1zl1 Member Posts: 16
    I believe that the 315 hp is about right,the thing that makes this car so quick is the incredible low end torque it produces,somewhere close to 500 ft lbs at around 3000 rpm.
  • jpstaxjpstax Member Posts: 250
    A good classic musclecar site for everyone:

    http://www.cars-on-line.com/musclecarsmenu.html
  • timothyj1timothyj1 Member Posts: 5
    Still own my first car- 1968 GTO coupe. Must have a quarter million miles on it by now. Not a car- an automobile! Regularly blasted the back roads of Humboldt County at buried-needle speeds at lots of trips up and down Califoria. My best trip was the time I had to meet a girlfriend in Santa Cruz at 5pm- trouble was, I was in Concord at 3:45! (Friday afternoon, too) The GTO got me there on time! We're having a disagreement about oil pressure right now, so it's parked, wife wants to sell it. Love that car.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Hey, a new oil pump and a set of bearing shells and you're off again!
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,517
    If you have a choice, keep the car and sell the wife. You've had the car a lot longer, and it would be harder to replace.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • timothyj1timothyj1 Member Posts: 5
    Sorry- they built 120,000 gto's in 68. My wife is one of a kind.
  • carnut4carnut4 Member Posts: 574
    Then why not buy her one too and tweak her interest a bit?
  • guitarzanguitarzan Member Posts: 873
    Anyone see the news show last night about the
    '60's Mustangs gas tank problem? I had never seen this before. They showed how this gas tank was simply dropped into the car. There was nothing between the tank and the passenger area. In a rear-end collision, they showed gas spewing all over the crash dummy in the driver seat! I caught the middle of a story, but it looks like a young kid died as a result of this. Do you guys remember any dispute about this design years ago?

    guitarzan
    Community Leader/Vans Conference
  • carnut4carnut4 Member Posts: 574
    I just saw this last night and mentioned it in another conference[100 best cars]. Shiftright came back and didn't think much of it. Check those responses.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,517
    Not just the Mustang. pretty much the way they built cars in those days. Must not be a rampant problem or there would be a lot less people in this country, since they made millions of Mustangs during those years.

    This story has been on before (I assume this was a rerun). As I recall, you could fix the danger by welding in a plate behind the rear seat. Of course, that reduces the value of your classic...

    Remember, the '65 probably had a metal dashboard, no headrests, maybe lap belts, non-collapsible steering column, no door beams, etc. makes you wonder why anyone survived driving in the old days.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • spokanespokane Member Posts: 514
    Anyone who owned an early Mustang should have glanced in the trunk to readily see that the top of the tank did serve as the load-bearing floor for the trunk area. The bright galvanized tank surface was in clear contrast with the body color. This design avoided the cost of separate tank hanger straps and mounting lugs, kept the bottom surface of the tank up away from the road, and facilitated easy service of the tank and fuel-level sender.

    I didn't see the recent story but in the mid-1960's very few of us had the disposition to file product-safety suits based on the precept that an alternate design might have better tolerated a major mishap involving the product.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    So why isn't everyone on VW's case for putting the gas tank in your lap on the old bugs? Fact is, this type of design was commonplace...one could pick apart any 1960s product for safety violations.
  • carnut4carnut4 Member Posts: 574
    Moreover, I'd like to see the same crash tests [rear-ender] done on that new BMW Roadster with the short rear. Bet that would pucker up a few safety wowsers....
  • spokanespokane Member Posts: 514
    We probably all remember that for decades, light trucks had the gasoline tank installed inside the cab, right behind the seat. This design was as well established as having the radiator out there in front of the engine.

    This was safe in that it kept the stumps and rocks from damaging the tank. And you didn't need a fuel gauge; just listen to the sloshing.
  • carnut4carnut4 Member Posts: 574
    I remember that in Fords-and a big media hype on all that-but were ALL pickups like that? I don't think so. I remember the Chevs and Dodges having tanks strapped to the frame rails.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Doesn't Dan RAther have anything better to talk about?....GEEZ!
  • carnut4carnut4 Member Posts: 574
    Man you really hate the guy don't you? Hey I'm no safety wowser and I hate anyone telling me what to do with my car [or anything else] with govt laws. Especially people like Joan Claybrook and Ralph Nader. This is about info-here. Just curious about the gas tanks. Don't really care. Actually, I think it was Mike Wallace who did the Ford Pickups. Now let's get back to Classic Musclecars.....[I'll send Rather over to checkout your Alfas]
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Hah! NO, I don't hate him...it just reminds me of that media mud-slinging that was done on the Audi inthe 1980s (60 minutes)...totally unfounded ruining of a manufacturer's reputation for the sake of boosting audience ratings. It struck me personally as immoral. And frankly, I don't think they had a clue as to what they were talking about, in terms of automotive engineering.
  • carnut4carnut4 Member Posts: 574
    Well the media has hit a new low allthe way-with the Monica crap and all that. And of course-none of those shrieking media types have a clue about cars at all and it makes me so mad. But- I must say- I got rear-ended last summer in my new conversion can by a jerk in a Toyata 4x4 who was going to fast and not paying attention. Did $4800 damage- pushed in the bumper-and those rear doors still don't close the same. Now, if I'd been in one of those Mustangs with that kind of impact-I don't know.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Fact is, nobody knows what would happen...nonetheless, I also feel modern cars are way safer than old ones, if for no other reason the padded dashes, belts, airbags, headrest, side impact bars, you name it...as absurd as it sounds, if you had a head-on between a Miata and a 1964 Cadillac (at a reasonable highway speed), the Miata driver might be out a car but the Caddy driver would be out the windshield. (No, I don't want to prove my theory, thank you...let's get one of those crash dummies, thank you very much).
  • timothyj1timothyj1 Member Posts: 5
    unfortunately people want to feel that the road is as safe as their living room- the world is a dangerous place and rarely more dangerous than on the street. motoring is inherently dangerous and should properly be regarded as such no matter how big the volvo. I'm amazed that people are surprised that cars do crash and people do get hurt. Let's be careful out there!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Interestingly, most owners of classic and collectible cars have proven that they are very careful with their machines and as a rule fall far below the normal accident rate. Modern Corvettes and Mustangs are cracked up at a good rate but older ones are driven much more soberly apparently.
  • sebringjxisebringjxi Member Posts: 140
    Hello all, just catching up on my reading and thought there were some pretty interesting threads in the last couple of months.

    Story 1) I had a high school speech/English teacher--a very prim and proper lady who drove a 60-something Buick Skylark. One day she showed up at school with a triple black GS! We all went nuts! She was not the kind you could talk to easily, but I mowed her yard in the summer and was a little closer to her than some. She confessed to me that she really liked the black car, but it had "almost too much" get up and go for her, much more she said than her old Buick! I actually got to drive it once. I was mowing the yard and ran out of gas. When I went to tell her I was going to get more and come back, she gave me a $20 and told me to take her car and fill it up too! I was too scared of wrecking it or being seen in it to do too much, but I did kick it just once---wow!

    2) The firebird John Wayne drove in McQ was a formula with the twin "dog house" scoops on the nose of the hood.

    3) McQueen in Bullit walked around the Mustang (390 with 428 springs in the front to try to keep it off the ground *after* the jumps!) and kicked a dent in the door "so it'd look like a cop's car". One of my favorite movies of all times. McQueen did a lot of the driving, insisted on it in fact, until he couldn't make it skid like the director wanted it too and he let a stunt driver take over. The shock towers kept caving in during the chase scene. I recently showed this movie to my sons (17 & 14) it was mildly interesting until the chase....then I looked over and saw them watching immobile--in mid bite!

    Later,

    Hal
  • jpstaxjpstax Member Posts: 250
    Just got back from vacation, so I haven't posted for a while. Just looked at a site that my brother-in-law passed along to me. It shows a '71 Buick Skylark GS that is not to be believed. The owner goes into great detail about it. As you know, I posted a while back about seeing a brown one at a body shop, and the owner said he wouldn't trade it for a brand new C5 Corvette if it were offered to him. Anyway, here it the URL for the site:
    http://homepages.infoseek.com/~bejara_wbs/oldcars/skylark.html
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well, everybody is somebody's baby! Looks like he did a nice job, but a couple of no-nos on modifying the car. And he DOES know the proper definition of a muscle car.

    As for the other GS owner, to each his own, but the C5 Corvette is a fabulous car, with handling and braking an old muscle car could only dream about. And given that a C5 is worth double his GS, hey, he could swap for the C5, sell it and buy two GSs! He'd be foolish to refuse a C5, but then, someone would be foolish to offer it...so this remains a very hypothetical dare on his part.
  • sunlinersunliner Member Posts: 36
    ...were some interesting things.

    re: '65 Mustang 6-cyl 3-spd.
    My mom bought one new in 1964 1/2, a maroon convertible, she said. She traded it in on a 1963 Corvette convertible in '66 or '67 at the very latest, because the transmission was lunching itself, she said.

    re: 1969 Ford F-250
    Yup, had the gas tank right behind the seat. I learned to drive in the thing. Best friend's dad had a '78 F-150, and the tank was relocated to underneath the bed.

    re: Bullitt
    Rented it once, but never made it all the way through it. Should try again, I gather?
  • carnut4carnut4 Member Posts: 574
    You missed the guy who bought a Bentley Beano back in '64 and had trouble finding the right kind of gas for it......
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Somehow, I had never tuned into this topic until now. Just too many topics and not enough time!

    But...After reading some 100 plus topics, I now feel this urge for another old car!

    My current toy, A Miata now seems boring!

    Maybe it's time for a trade...?

    I should have never come here!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    We've got him now....mwahahahahaha....
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,517
    You are bad people (according to my wife). Maybe I should talk to Isell about his Miata, since I haven't found one yet? Although it is kind of a long drive to NJ (Texas or Seattle?)

    For some reason, I started thinking about a '73 Mustang Mach1 recently (my brother in law had one back in the late 70's). red with a 302 and a three speed stick. Probably the worst bad weather car ever made (from a driving standpoint), but would look real neat in my garage.

    It really is a disease, isn't it?

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I would consider trading my beautiful 88 RX7 for an interesting old car...

    The disease is upon me!
  • dklynndklynn Member Posts: 3
    Well, waaaaay back in chat room antiquity (#10 above) I talked about my beloved '70 Cougar convertible, 351 Cleveland...

    As is the way of the worlkd, all good things must end and I think I've talked myself into selling my baby. I bought him in 1979 and have taken him to Hawai`i and back (twice) and CA and VA (I'm in the Navy). However, since I work in beautiful downtown SE DC, I had to get a more (100%) reliable car (a 98 Sebring JXi--good ride!) and now I'm moving back to Hawai`i and can't take both cars. It's like getting rid of a lifelong pet--you still love him dearly but you can't take care of him any more and you want desperately to find a loving home... :). I got him body and paint and he looks GREAT--but then there's the instrument panel, the dash, the top, the steering...ad infinitum. I put $1800 into the outside and I have maintenance records back to when I bought him (lifetime guarantee on C6 trans, etc.) Anybody out there have an idea of what I can hope to get out of a sale and are there any online fora to find him a good home?

    thx/happy holidays
  • dgraves1dgraves1 Member Posts: 414
    I saw a 69 Z28 in the paper for $9950. If it is in good condition, that's probably a good price but here is my question. It says it has an auto tranny. I didn't think the first generation Z28s came with an auto. Of course, I would check it out thoroughly before buying it, but I don't want to waste any more time if it is obviously a phony or has had the tranny changed. Any help?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes, you are correct...the RPO M35 auto trans option was not available with either the 396 or 302 engine in 1968, so you couldn't get RPO M35 with RP0 Z28...a 4-speed was required so that car has been altered and is therefore considerably devalued...it should sell in the $14k-18K range for decent cars.
  • dgraves1dgraves1 Member Posts: 414
    More likely it is not a Z/28 at all but an attempted clone. I've run into quite a few of those. One guy didn't even make the attempt. He just advertized it as a Z/28. When I got there, it had no emblems, single exhaust, 2 bbl carb, no rear sway bar (this was a 70 1/2 model so the AT was OK), original paint (no Z/28 stripes) and it was beat up on top of that. I read him the riot act. He got real upset when I told him his car wasn't worth $500. He must of been hoping for a real idiot to buy the car.
  • ineedofacamaroineedofacamaro Member Posts: 1
    Hi all, Ive been out and about looking for a Camaro, anywhere from a 83-90. I want something that will need quite a bit of work to put into the car. If you can help me with this, email me at buff614@aol.com.
  • dgraves1dgraves1 Member Posts: 414
    Try http://www.autotrader.com/index.jtmpl/?LNX=L90CRPRPDB
    There ought to be plenty there. I suspect trying to fing a camaro of that vintage that DIDN'T need a lot of work would be the challenge. I owned two from that time frame and both were shot by the time they were five years old. I imagine at 10 to 17 years old they ought to keep you busy and poor.
  • dennisprattdennispratt Member Posts: 4
    HI i need a ram air breather and external oil cooler for a 1970 mercury cyclone spoiler 429 drag pack car.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Look in Hemmins Motor News. you can pick up a copy in any large book store. They are the BEST!
  • jpstaxjpstax Member Posts: 250
    I saw two '69 Z-28's at the following site:

    http://www.cars-on-line.com/musclecarsmenu.html

    They didn't look phony to me.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah, they look nice but you really need to be careful. The counterfeiting that goes on is sometimes very clever. Even the factory ID plates are being remanufactured now. I have all the books and know experts and I'm even nervous when asked to authenticate one.
  • dgraves1dgraves1 Member Posts: 414
    At $20K, I guess you can afford some serious $$ for counterfeiting. To think I bought my first Z28 in 1977 (a 70 1/2) for $1600. Of course, I wrapped it around a tree three years later. 360 hp, 18 years old and wet roads is not a good combination.
  • reddogsreddogs Member Posts: 353
    I need your help on this one.....I have to find an answer to this riddle and nobody seems to know.

    Here's the question: I had a 71 Mustang with a 302 engine, now I always assumed it was a 'BOSS 302'on the oil covers and the carb covers and the
    intake & heads looked diferent than the regular 302 and of course the carb and exaust. It was a 'MACH I' mustang with a 'BOSS 302' engine, now my Ford guy tells me one of his friends had a MACH I with the BOSS 302 in it which was from the factory. So what I want to know is could the 'BOSS 302 engine' be special ordered in the 71-73'MACH I' mustang because I am getting hammered by stang' know it all's who say I lost my marbles.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    No, no Boss 302 engine in the 1971 model. It was replaced by the Boss 351, of which 1,806 were made.

    The engine code on the 71s is the 5th digit in the VIN.

    L-250 6 cyl
    F-302 210HP
    H-351 240HP
    M-351 280HP (CJ)
    R-351 330HP (BOSS)
    C-429 370HP (CJ)
    J-429 375HP (CJ-R)


    Anyway, that's what the books say.
  • reddogsreddogs Member Posts: 353
    "Ford went so far as to create finished print and
    outdoor ads touting the '71 Boss 302 -- that's how
    close it came to production. But they opted for the Boss 351 instead, fearing the 302 wouldn't be
    competitive from a marketing standpoint at the very least. Considering how close it came to
    production, I suppose it's possible a few Boss
    302's actually escaped from the factory and somehow ended up in the hands of consumers but it would have to have been one of those backroom deals. "

    Interesting.........
  • x90071x90071 Member Posts: 8
    Hey Guys!
    I need info (tidbits, links, etc.) on 1972/1973 mustang convertible.

    Any info would be appreciated.

    Also if anyone owns this car with, lets say, 3.02 engine i'd appreciate comments on gpm.
  • cjudycjudy Member Posts: 7
    Anyone here had experience with Holley's rebuild or custom rebuild service? Is it worth it? We have a 800cfm DP on our GTO that needs a rebuild. Unfortunately, the custom rebuild replating cost $300 and requires four weeks to complete. New carbs of that model run about $375.

    CJ
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well, it's probably better to keep the original carburator on the GTO...sure, it's worth it if it's guaranteed and if, FOR CERTAIN, they give you back the exact same carb. They aren't easy to rebuild...lots and lots of little pieces.
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