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Classic Musclecars

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  • cjudycjudy Member Posts: 7
    Shiftright:

    I'm committed. I pulled the carb today, recorded all the ss#s, jets, powervalves etc.. boxed for shipment to Holley Monday. I'm pretty confident they handle all the little pieces correctly. I was more worried about the setup and calibration which we so painstakingly work on for a year. We'll wait and see.

    The engine and carb aren't original to the car. It originally had a 389 with tri power carbs.

    Today it has a 455 HO with the Holley.

    I really would like the original setup but what we got is an incredibly satisfying alternative.

    I'll keep you posted.

    CJ
  • dennisprattdennispratt Member Posts: 4
    I own a 19701/2 falcon super cobra jet drag pack car equiped with 429scj engine 4-speed with hurst shifter staggered rear shocks shaker hood engine code is "j" can anyone furnish any info on this car
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    A super cobra jet should be a 428 V-8...the 429 was called a Thunder Jet or a Police Interceptor, codes K N or P. There was also a Boss 429. Sorry, I don't have the Super Cobra Jet code and my books don't show which engines went into the Falcon.
  • dennisprattdennispratt Member Posts: 4
    mr. Shiftwright, you are incorrect the 1970 ford muscle cars all had the 429. the thunder jet you refered to came in thunderbirds only. all torino's cyclone spoiler's muscle cars had the 429 cobra jet, and super cobra jets please do your research better
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    This fellow says he has the Falcon,not the Torino/Cyclone, and Falcon was discontinued mid year. Thus, my books show 428 CJ and SCJs for that year as well as a 429 engine SCJ.

    But I don't really know for sure since the books I have aren't very clear on this...this is why I said quite clearly that I don't know which engines went into which cars at which time in the midyear switch. There was a definite product/model change mid-year and this makes the issue unclear to me (and apprarently to others as well).

    Anyway, if someone has the definitive book on the 1970 Falcon engine codes, please share this resource with us and help out the original poster.
  • dennisprattdennispratt Member Posts: 4
    O.K.I will try to explain it this way. I own a 1970 1/2 falcon the title calls for a drag pack under the model section, engine code is "J". my research tell's me that only 56 of these type cars were produced. My origonal question was if anyone had any other information. All I research is Fords and I do know the engine codes for all type Fords. Believe me I do not want to stir up a hornet's nest. thank you
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Ah, okay.....so what you are saying is that you know the engine is correct for your car and you know the number made, but you want to know further info other than correct engine #s and # produced?

    I can tell you that the drag pack option adds about 15-20% additional value to the car over and above usual price guide numbers for that car/engine.

    I'll snoop around---I have some contemporary publications from that era that might say something further.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    You may want to check out the Fairlane chat room and forum at classicar.com. It's the only Ford intermediate oriented web site I could find. There's also a Fairlane Club of America, with its web site at the same address. There's some info on the '70 1/2 Falcon and 429 SCJ in "Fearsome Fords 1959-73", but it's basic stuff you probably already know, like axle code "V" means you've got a 3.91, and "Y" is a 4.11.

    You have a rare and appealing car, but like most "budget supercars" it's under the radar of most enthusiasts. Your best bet is to find some guys who bleed Ford blue. When I owned GTOs I hung around purists who knew more GTO esoterica than any book (or at least claimed to).

    Budget supercars were introduced because the better-known musclecars were getting expensive and too well-known to the insurance companies. The Road Runner was the best known and most successful, but there were others, like the Olds F-85 W31, Pontiac GT-37, Buick GS 350, Olds Rallye 350, Super Bee and 340 Road Runner/Super Bee. The Judge was originally planned as a lower-cost pillared-coupe GTO.

    Whoever bought your car new was mighty serious about going fast. The gearing alone would separate the men from the boys.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well, you are in the general vicinity of the ballpark....is this a real Ram Air III or made-up? The Ram Air option is worth a lot of money so the authenticity of it will be a factor to a knowledgable buyer. Figure a clean coupe that's not mint is worth $8,000 and then $4,000 or so for the 400 + Ram Air and maybe an extra $1000 for a strong economy right now, so you might pull the lower end of your estimate if the car is straight and not too modified.
  • mmcswmmcsw Member Posts: 29
    but I'd just like to comment on how mature and levelheaded most of the posts here in the "classics" section are. I had been spending a lot of time in the SUV section and some people get downright nasty there.
  • jpstaxjpstax Member Posts: 250
    Quite a few of us are "baby boomers" (younger geezers) who just love the older musclecars of the 60's and 70's, and so yes we are a bit more mature and serious than people in other forums.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think to talk about cars in a courteous and informative manner, one has to remove the ego from the arena (as much as one can--it's difficult!).

    I myself always find criticism or challenges to my knowledge much easier to assimilate and consider when a) nothing is personally directed and b) there are some facts, references, etc. to look at.

    Nothing starts fights faster than a post like "FORD RULES!" or YOU IDIOT!

    Aside from the youth issue, I think many people have learned bad manners on other Internet message boards that are not as closely hosted as Town Hall.

    Given the chance and some direction, most people online act very well toward their new-found, faceless and often culturally diverse electronic acquaintences.
  • mmcswmmcsw Member Posts: 29
    I'd like to plunge into this forum and reminisce about the first car I ever drove, that being a 1969 Camaro. These cars now have reached classic status, comparable to the 1957 Chevy, but at the time we had ours, from 1970 to 1976 or so, it was just another pony car. I think I was about 15 when I "borrowed" my dad's keys and me and a buddy of mine took it for a spin around the block. Actually it really was my mom's car. The car itself was not a performance version, having a 327/210 hp with a very small 2bbl carb, single exhaust,turbo 350 auto trans, and a non posi rear, probably about a 3.08 ratio. Well we just babied it around the block, being scared of getting caught the whole time.
    Later, my dad sold it to my oldest brother, who was in college at the time, for $1000, and this is where the story gets interesting. As a passenger in this vehicle, usually relegated to the back seat due to my little brother status, I saw my life pass before my eyes more than once. It really wasn't that fast, but if you stood on it long enough, it would go well over 100 mph. The brakes were terrible, 4 power drums. If you stopped hard once from high speed, 100+ mph, they completely faded away. The handling was pretty good compared to all the other vehicles we were used to. I remember once returning home from a drive in movie at about 2 am listening to the Stones 8 track "Through the Past Darkly", driving on a 2 lane blacktop country road at about 90 mph when the road suddenly took a 90 degree turn to the left, my brother was driving and not looking at the road, but was fiddling with a cigarette or something, anyway he just had time to yank the wheel over and the Camaro did a 4 wheel drift across both lanes of the road but he managed to keep it pointing in the right direction and between the ditches. After that he stopped and we all had to bail out of the car and piss because we all were scared out of our pants.
    Anyway that Camaro was beat pretty hard and eventually rusted away and was sold to another college kid, who abused it some more. In stock configuration, these cars were not as good as some people make them out to be, but if you buy one today and pour a ton of money into it, you can buy just about anything on the aftermarket and make it better than it ever eas from the factory.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Yep, just the other night, I had a long chat on the phone with my lifelong best friend.

    We both agree that it's a miracle that we survived the sixties. Neither of us ever wrecked a car, but it's a wonder we didn't...

    Oh, but speeding tickets? I must hold the world's record and he isn't far behind!
  • carnut4carnut4 Member Posts: 574
    That'd go along with some of those other stories already shared. I swear, growing up in the Southern California area really put the car stuff in you. But actually, my worst speeding tickets were all on highway 17 between Santa Cruz and Los Gatos, Ca. Made it home one night from UCSB campus to Los Gatos in 17 minutes flat-at 430 AM. No cops on the road-but then-there were those other times! Those CHP Sergeants would get you everytime!
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,518
    I saw an interesting muscle "car" today in the Home Depot parking lot. looked to be a '69 or '70 (based on the Torino-like grill) Ford Ranchero Cobra Jet. Looked to be pretty original, with a cobra jet shaker hood, hood mounted tach (thought only Pontiac did that), Cobra emblems, GT hubcaps and a stick shift. Oddly, no emblem for engine size. Did have dual exhaust exiting in front of rear wheels with a decidedly non-stock oversized tip.

    Wondering if anyone knows how common this car was, or what something like that might go for? Body looked straight and pretty rust free, but needed a paint job (especially the bed), and the interior looked somewhat tired.

    I always wanted an El Camino in the old days, and do see a fari number of them around, but hardly ever see a Ranchero anymore.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I'm not proud of this...but

    When I was 18, I got NINE tickets in less than a year.

    Three of those were recieved in the same week, and
    two of those three were in the same DAY by the same @%&* motorcycle cop!

    Then there was the dark night, in Palos Verdes...I was trying to catch up with my buddy in my '62 Impala SS. I could see his tailights...I was catching up...70 - 75 - 80- 90, I was almost up to him....What!!

    Somehow, a cop had gotten between the two of us!

    It was a cop's tailights I was chasing!

    Not a good night...!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes, it's called a Ranchero GT, with the 429 engine, code C (CJ), 370HP. If stock and in very nice shape, worth around $10,000.
  • carnut4carnut4 Member Posts: 574
    I'd forgotten you mentioned owning a '62 Impala SS. That's exactly what I was cruising around in those days in that area, though it was "only" a 250 horse 327 with 3 on the tree. Your ticket story reminds me of one night in San Jose, when a friend and I were cruising around with a gal we knew in her Dad's '62 Chrysler 300. She was trying to impress us with the car, etc. Well, at one stoplight, there was a motorcycle cop a block down who'd watched her burnout drag at the green, and nailed her bigtime. Well, about an hour later-guess what-same thing, same cop!! This turned our friend {Shirley was her name] in to a hysterical bucket of tears, and just ruined the evening for all of us. Well, if that wasn't enough, on the way home, on an expressway, she passed this Olds 442, got going too fast, and guess what, she got nailed again!! Shirley didn't drive the Chrysler 300 for a long, long time! I've never seen such bad luck all in one night!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    We grew up in the same area around the same time.

    Sounds like it was a good thing we didn't know each other!

    Three tickets in one night? Shirley was a slower learner than I was!
  • jpstaxjpstax Member Posts: 250
    Hey Mr_Shiftright, is there any way you could find out the 0-60 times for the following cars?

    (1) 1962 Impala SS with the 409-425hp engine;

    (2) 1963 Ford Galaxie 500 with the 406 engine;

    (3) 1966 Nova SS with the 327-350hp engine;

    (4) 1969 Camaro SS with the 302 engine; and,

    (5) 1985 Buick GNX (turbo 3800-intercooled).

    Thanks, jpstax.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    That would take a bit of digging, but here's a site that will either have or direct you to that information, and is also fun to browse...strictly all about Muscle Cars:

    http://www.voicenet.com/~peterskm/

    best,

    shifty
  • jpstaxjpstax Member Posts: 250
    Just got back from a "Kruse" car auction being held at the "Volo Car Museum", at Rts. 12 and 120, in Volo, IL. I couldn't believe how may muscle cars were being auctioned off! There were '60s and '70(s) SS Camaros, Z-28s, SS Impalas, Chevy IIs, SS Novas, Corvettes, Super Bees, 442(s), Mustangs (Boss, Shelby, and plain GT), Trans Ams, and even a Viper ('96). You have to see it to believe it! Some of the cars were "steals", going for way below what they were worth. The auction ends tomorrow (5-7). I highly recommend going just to see these cars. The museum also has some great cars that are in MINT condition.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    What did you pick up? :)
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    ............A Woody!!!!
  • jpstaxjpstax Member Posts: 250
    I pulled up to a light this morning, and waiting to turn left (I was turning right) was a green Camaro (gas cap said SS). Anyway, the ground was really shaking and this monster was rocking back and forth. I turned my radio down so I could hear that loud but mellow Chevy engine sound. The driver had a BIG smile on his face. He was a silver-haired "geezer", just like me. As he turned the corner, he opened it up a bit, and made about 10 feet of tire tracks effortlessly.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    He knew you were watching!

    In our town, there is a guy who runs around on nice days with a black '68 SS Camaro with a 396!

    Same thing....Nice!
  • jpstaxjpstax Member Posts: 250
    Going to the NHRA Winston Cup Nationals in Joliet (Route 66 Dragway) tomorrow. Great price for 1st day ($10, with no reserve seating). After that the prices go up, up, up.
  • carnut4carnut4 Member Posts: 574
    close to here that ran the top fuel cars. Used to be Portland International Raceway, until some noise complaints led to the demise of the dragstrip. But they still allow transam road races! Go figure. A 40 minute drive to Woodburn, I can watch the Alcohol cars, but I haven't been to a top fuel meet in years. I have to drive miles and miles to get to one. Sure would like to go to one!
  • jpstaxjpstax Member Posts: 250
    I guess we're all spoiled here in Chicago. There are 3 strips within 100 miles of each other. The Route 66 one in Joliet is, in my opinion, the best. That's why the NHRA holds its mid-west (Winston Cup Nationals) meet there every year (since '98). I saw about 60-70 races yesterday and I'd have to say that in the Stock class (my favorite), the hemis made the fastest runs. In one pairing, a 426 hemi blew the doors off a 427 Corvette. Maybe it was a case of the 'Vette's driver not being too experienced. Anyway, the crowd cheered wildly. In the SS class, it was a mixed bag, since most of the cars use the big-block V-8 engines. I don't really like the super-gas class. Too many exotic cars (some dragsters) with weird looking engine set-ups. Got in out of the hot sun for that one (still got burned pretty good). Saw John Force and Warren Johnson's trailers. They race on Saturday (6-3).
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Do you ever grudge race at any of those strips? That's what I really miss about not having a local strip, since Baylands went away--no Wednesday night grudge racing. What a rush!
  • jpstaxjpstax Member Posts: 250
    Funny you should ask, because Route 66 Dragstrip does have a teen (young person) night every Wednesday (except before major events) that runs from mid-June thru late-Sept. The purpose is to try and get people to hold their grudge races there, instead of the street where they could get hurt, or possibly hurt (or kill) somebody else. Anyway, I believe they have a small entrance fee (don't know how many races it covers), and a small spectator admission charge. My hats off to them for doing it, because can't be making much money.
  • jpstaxjpstax Member Posts: 250
    Just saw the new movie "Gone in 60 Seconds". There's an incredible car chase involving a '67 Shelby Mustang and the cops that has to be seen to be believed. It's near the end of the film, so you have to be patient and sit through the first hour and half. There are some cool foreign sportscars, probably owned by movie stars and rich yuppies. Anyway, the car chase is worth the price of admission (as good as one in Bullitt).
  • denniswadedenniswade Member Posts: 362
    .....were custom built for this movie, and were all unique (different powerplants in each, some other differences). The director got to keep one! How cool is that.......
  • jpstaxjpstax Member Posts: 250
    I just found out that someone started a classic car meet last weekend at our new McDonalds. That would explain why my wife and I saw a black Impala, with 409 badges, cruising up and down the street by our local shopping center last Saturday night. He was obviously looking for some action because the lake pipes were wide open. What a mellow sound it made. I'm positive it was indeed a big-block, and the 409 badges weren't phony. It brought back a lot of memories of past summers!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    What a sweet sound that 409 must have made!
  • jpstaxjpstax Member Posts: 250
    It was very sweet! I'm absolutely positive it was at least a 409, 'cause I know what a 327 sounds like, and this was a much deeper and louder rumble that made the glass in the store behind us rattle. The kid was taking a big chance that the cops didn't catch him with those lake pipes wide open.
  • mcsapmcsap Member Posts: 15
    Exactly what was the fastest top end US made production car ( min. of 500 and stock) ever made. I was under the opinion that the 70 Superbird with the hemi holds that position at 199mph???
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Nope, the stock Superbird was 140 mph...only the race prepared cars (NASCAR) could hit the 190 mph+
    . Awesome but not production vehicles from the factory....unless you allow heavy modification to stand as "production".

    I'd guess the fastest production car out of the box is/was the Viper.
  • sebringjxisebringjxi Member Posts: 140
    Seems somewhere I read an anniversary issue of Hot Rod Magazine and at that point in their history, the two quickest 1/4 mile cars tested were a 427 tri-power Vette and a CJ 429 Mustang Mach 1, both were '69 models (I think) and with identical 1/4 mile times, the Mustang running maybe 3 mph faster through the traps.....odd, I would have thought the hemi Cudas, GTOs and 396 Camaros would have been in there too. Those were the days too, when their fastes 0-60 time was in a Pontiac Bonneville, I believe at something like 4.3 seconds. After the testing, Pontiac admitted this particular car had been in (Smoky Yunick's??) garage for some "tuning"!!!
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    You may be thinking of the March '64 issue of Car & Driver, where they timed a "stock" tri-power GTO to 60 in 4.6 seconds. Later David Davis admitted the time was bogus, and that the car had been massaged by Royal Pontiac. But that was long after the road test had put both Car & Driver and GTO on the map.

    Or you might be thinking of their March '65 road test of a Pontiac 2+2, a hi-perf version of the Catalina, with 421 tri-power. That car got to 60 in 3.9 seconds. This time the article admitted that the 2+2 had been blessed by Royal, and driven to the racetrack and down the strip by their tuners.

    Royal had their fingers in most of the GTOs tested, but that was part of the genius of Jim Wangers. The story is that he was ticked after one of the first GTO road tests, of a bone stock '64 convertible with 2-speed AT that a dealer's wife was driving, made the GTO look like a slug. Never again, he said, and from then on magazines only got "optimized" GTOs to test. The other manufacturers started doing it too, which is why road test numbers have to be taken with a grain of salt.

    Royal had been tuning Pontiacs since I guess the late '50s, and you could either buy the good parts in what they called the Bobcat kit, or you could have them breathe on your own Pontiac. Pontiac was an interesting story in the '60s: part engineering, part styling, part buzz and no Azteks. What happens when car guys run a division instead of brand managers.
  • chris396chris396 Member Posts: 53
    My uncle got a speeding ticket in his '66 Charger for going 135. He thought for sure he was going to be in big trouble. The judge new my Grandfather and Grandmother were having serious money problems at the time so my uncle got a $35 fine.
  • denniswadedenniswade Member Posts: 362
    from the Chicago police in a friend's brand-new '66 Charger (I owned an Alfa at the time), and the sloppy handling of that pig damn near got me killed (not to mention the officer who drew his service revolver on me after boxing me in).

    Nice thing about Chicago -- I asked 'em if there was any way I could take of the ticket right away and they wrote me up for running a stop sign. I gave 'em $25 and went on my way.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Of course, that's 1960s dollars, so a bribe costs more now in Chicago I'm sure!

    135 mph in a Dodge Charger sounds pretty frightening...I presume Uncle Fred wasn't well at the time?
  • chris396chris396 Member Posts: 53
    Haha :~). Uncle Gary was insane at the time. Him and my father were madmen when it came to the way they drove. He said at 140mph the front end would get light and you could hardly steer it. He had also rigged sequential taillights from a Cougar in the back along with a toggle switch that disconnected the brake lights for those times when you didn't want to be seen. There were many people who refused to ride with either of them, and still wouldn't to this day. I remember my Dad showing me what it was like to go 100mph because I asked at six years old. I thought something magical would happen when the needle hit the triple digits. I also remember sliding back and forth over those slick vinyl backseats around the corners. They've definitely both mellowed in there later years. It's a wonder they are both still here.
  • eitheroneeitherone Member Posts: 3
    Does anyone know where I can get a wiring diagram for my 1970 Camaro. I need to hook up my gauges, heater, radio, etc.. and I want to do it right. Thanks.
  • badgerpaulbadgerpaul Member Posts: 219
    I would buy a set of service manuals for it, you should be able to find someone selling them in Hemmings.
  • papasmurf43papasmurf43 Member Posts: 4
    Isn't the '69 charger the most bad-[non-permissible content removed] machine ever made?!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    collectors seem to like 'em, and are paying good prices for the right car/motor combination.
  • ndancendance Member Posts: 323
    especially with the bitchin' stars and bars flag arrangement on the roof.
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