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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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Comments

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,657
    This shows the Model, Cylinders, Bore x Stroke, Compression Ratio, Carburetion, BHP, TQ, Transmission w/Ratios [ sometimes ? ] and Final Drive ratios - STD. and (optional).

    Interesting that the 4-bbl carb is a Carter. I always associated Carter with Mopar, Rochester with GM, and Holley with Ford. But, I guess they mixed and matched from time to time. I think my '68 Dart's 318 had a Holley 2-bbl.

    I wonder why they don't show the gear ratios for the automatic transmissions? I think the THM400 that the Catalina used had ratios of 2.48:1, 1.48:1, and 1.00:1. That 2-speed that's showing for the GTO probably had a first gear of around 1.75:1, I"m guessing.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    1975: Eight lines of cars...

    How many unique platforms, though?

    Today we'll soon have the Spark, Sonic, Cruze, Malibu, and Impala. Seems like plenty to me.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    Available final drive ratios from 2.41:1 to 4.33:1.
    - Ray
    Wow....
    2022 X3 M40i
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited March 2012
    raw resources for the batteries come from Canada, where it's mined out of the ground through a process so dirty that NASA declared the surrounding area a dead zone or something like that

    That report was grossly inaccurate, link to where we discussed this previously:

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f16697b/21758#MSG21758

    Sudbury, Canada is in much better shape today than it was when they started supplying nickel for use in hybrid batteries.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,657
    Available final drive ratios from 2.41:1 to 4.33:1.

    My '67 Catalina has the 2.56:1 axle, but its engine was built-up at some point in its life, before I bought it, so it doesn't take full advantage of that power. Still, with that tall axle, it's kinda fun how when you stomp it, it'll hold first up to around 50 or so and then chirp the tires when it shifts into second. I used to have 215/75/R14 tires on it, and with those, sometimes it would even chirp on the 2-3 shift. But now I have 225/75/R15's, on heavier 7" wide rims, so I think that extra weight, as well as friction from the bigger tire, keeps it from spinning out so easily.

    Plus, I tend to go easier on it nowadays, because I don't want to wear out the new tires too quickly. It's not all that easy anymore, to find a whitewall, especially in a 70-series.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    The Corvette Coupe w/A6 transmission that I bought is late 2006
    also had a 2.56 final drive ratio.
    And about 1550 RPM at 70 MPH.
    - Ray
    Just about twice idle RPM...
    2022 X3 M40i
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    My point was only to demonstrate that how good or bad you think it is now is always relative to the date you pick as a comparison date.

    And, I live in SC, not CA, and if you really like working in a cotton mill or in fabric weaving, then things pretty much suck for you now in SC. Of course, when SC was the leader in textiles, say... 30 years ago, all you ever heard around here was the complaints about the bad pay, the poor working conditions, the health issues related to dust, etc.

    But, like the coal miners in WV, the auto workers in Detroit, the steel workers in PA, the textile workers saw their employment as a birth rite. It wasn't then, and it surely isn't now.

    Welcome to reality.

    When an above market price, or wage, is being paid, it's stealing from someplace else... Usually, the future. That's what happened to the big 3. They continually pushed the real cost of labor (and benefits promised) into the future.

    And, the taxpayer got a huge chunk of the bill.

    No one can actually say they are free market capitalists and at the same time, support tariffs, bailouts, etc. and be consistent.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I wonder how many who idolize cars from the 1970's would rather be in one of them .vs. a 2010 model seconds before a head-on collision.

    I'm an old car fan, and I love the cars from the 30-50's the most, but I wouldn't want to be in one in an accident!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,657
    How many unique platforms, though?

    Lessee...
    H-body (Vega/Monza)
    T-body (Chevette, which came out as a mid-year '75)
    X-body (Nova)
    F-body (Camaro, and it uses some of the X-body architecture, mainly suspension, the isolated front sub-frame, etc)
    A-body (Malibu/Monte Carlo)
    B-body (Bel Air/Impala/Caprice)
    Y-body (Corvette)

    So, seven basic platforms. Or, I guess you could say 6 1/2, if you want to sorta group the Camaro and Nova.

    Today, if you add in the Camaro and Corvette to the five you mentioned, you still have seven basic platforms.

    There's more variety in small cars these days than there was in '75. Back in '75, you couldn't even get a small domestic car with 4-doors...they were all 2-door hatchbacks, or sedans that looked like hatchbacks, or wagons. In compacts, with the Nova, you could get a 2-door coupe, 4-door sedan, or 2-door hatchback. In intermediates, you could get coupe, sedan, or wagon, and the coupe offered several different roof treatments. In full-sized cars, you could get coupes or sedans, both hardtop and pillared, convertible, and wagon.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Health care is a relative newcomer to the workplace, and is usually seen as being added during and shortly after WWII, due to wage and price controls being in place. It was a way to pay incentives and avoid the wage controls.

    In SC, pensions were only standard in the textile industry, and even then, were impossible to live on without the aid of SS. My neighbor's mother worked for 40 years in a sewing plant, and her monthly pension was an unbelievable $90.00/month in 2000.

    The highly-industrialized mid-west was far different from most of the rest of the country, primarily due to its high unionization and the power it wielded at the time.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,657
    I wonder how many who idolize cars from the 1970's would rather be in one of them .vs. a 2010 model seconds before a head-on collision.

    I don't think most 70's cars, the bigger ones at least, would be *too* bad in a head on collision with a modern car. A lot of improvements went into cars in the 60's, such as collapsible steering columns, seat belts, padded dashboards, rudimentary crumple zones, etc.

    My '76 LeMans would probably behave more or less like a '77-90 Caprice in an accident. It's about the same size and weight, and while the '77 B-body was supposedly all-new, I'm convinced that they still used the same frame, just with a new body dropped on.

    My '79 New Yorker is unitized, rather than body-on-frame, so it would probably do fairly well in a crash, too. Sure, a brand-new car is still going to do much better in a crash, but your typical 70's car would still do better than a 50's or earlier car, or many 60's cars.

    So, if we were going to give cars grades for crash worthiness, if a good modern car would get an "A", while that famous '59 Bel Air from the crash test a couple years back would fail miserably, I'd say a decent mid or full-sized 70's car would still get a solid C rating.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Today, if you add in the Camaro and Corvette to the five you mentioned, you still have seven basic platforms.

    Yep.

    Plus they probably sell crossovers instead of the old wagons.

    I don't think the menu is any shorter. :shades:
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I am in agreement... The later the model, overall speaking, the better the safety. Back in the 30-40's, before seat belts and safety glass, most victims were injured or killed by exiting the car and getting shredded by plate glass fragments.

    Personally speaking, having been in 2 head-on collisions where the opposing car turned in front of the one I was in at an intersection, and one with airbags, the other without, I can testify about the exponential "walk away factor" that airbags provide.

    I guess it all depends on the accident one plans to be Involved in... If I was given the choice of being in the 1970 Bonneville or the 2011 Smart in a head on collision, I might just pick the Bonneville.... But then, we usually aren't given a choice.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Most of those perks don't seem to be problematic in our developed world competitors systems.

    Are you ignoring financial news on Europe? Besides Germany, Norway (oil), and maybe a couple others, Europe is in mild to moderate Recession. The PIGS have been sustaining their perks on borrowed $, and things are not looking so rosy in France ... I belive it was Marchione who said last week that Europe needs to cut, cut, cut its auto production capacity. GM is losing $ on Opel.

    If you want another perspective, and a lot of times I don't think much of it, read Bernanke's comments today, that Europe's troubles are just in the beginning phases. Europe needs structural reforms; whether it's personal finances or government, you can't spend more than you make in the long run.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,057
    I don't think the menu is any shorter.

    Your opinion is your opinion, and that's fine of course, but I don't know how you could say that if you looked at a full-line brochure from Chevy back then, and compare it to what's offered today. Even back then, there were full-size Blazers, pickups, crew-cab pickups (like today's Avalanche), Suburbans, full-size vans (cargo and passenger), but we weren't even to that point of the discussion yet.

    Personally, I long for a red or maroon interior, but I know that's a pipe dream these days.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    I don't think it's a demand, like 'buy me birth control', but one does wonder why it was taken away after so many years, and years of the company making much moolah.

    Well I can think of several policies the U.S. had which were maybe "charitable", which many said we would regret:
    1) allowing millions of foreign students to come to U.S. universities and be trained as engineers, scientists, and IT people, picking up the latest skills, and then returning to their foreign lands.
    2) economic aid to foreign countries like Korea to modernize.
    3) not asking countries like Korea to pay for the stationing of U.S. forces in and around Korea, rather than putting their $ into industry
    4) allowing U.S. companies to put factories in foreign countries, thus transferring knowledge, and then allowing the products from those countries back in this country.
    5) making U.S. factories comply with rules and regulations that foreign based factories don't have to.

    I'm sure we could add more. But I think you get the point, that we have done about everything we can think of from a policy-standpoint to undermine U.S. industry, and to make our good jobs compete with 3rd world jobs.

    GM and the UAW failed to adapt, or improve quickly enough, while maintaining the status quo of their insular work-rules and norm of "good wages".

    The world changes for good or bad, and what you expect can change. I remember a line (movie fiction or a history book I read?) about the Battle of Bastogne in 1944. With Bastogne surrounded and under constant attack some Army cook was being handed a rifle, by an officer. The Cook yells "I don't want that, I'm a Cook"; to which he gets the reply "You're a rifleman now".
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    I don't believe healthcare and vacation time for workers are what is causing European malaise - a bigger part of it is excessive social welfare benefits doled out to the non-assimilating masses allowed to immigrate due to a false need for "labor", and quite a bit of public sector excess too. Also, those who aren't as productive as Germany have tried to live at a German standard, and now the credit lines are maxed out - to the detriment of many. If I make 50K and my neighbor makes 500K, I might not be able to afford the same car as him. I do agree, this is just the preface of a long mess in Europe, it will be worse there than it is here.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,657
    I think if you're a small car buyer, the choices are better these days. But for more traditional big-car buyers, the market has all but dried up.

    Now that the DTS and Lucerne are gone, GM is out of the big car game as far as I'm concerned. The new LaCrosse is nice, but it's more of a comfy midsizer with good legroom and a compact-car trunk. The Impala has a big front seat, good-sized trunk, but I swear the back seat of my '76 LeMans coupe is more comfortable than the Impala's!

    Cadillac is supposed to be coming out with that XTS or whatever, but it's going to be based on the LaCrosse, which means it's not going to be any roomier inside unless they make some huge modifications to the structure. It's not hard to add legroom...just stretch the floorpan and roof a bit, and make either the front, rear, or both doors a bit longer, but adding shoulder room is harder since you basically have to add width everywhere on the car, from bumper to bumper.

    Chrysler hasn't made what I'd consider a full-sized car since halfway through the 1981 model year. Something like a Charger or 300 is certainly big enough for my tastes, but despite that lanky 120" wheelbase, they just feel like midsized cars to me. Similarly, Ford's Taurus and MKS feel like midsized cars to me, as well, although they do have big trunks (Taurus especially).

    At best, I'd call this current crop "Tweeners", at best...a class that, IMO started with the 1985 Electra/98/DeVille...cars that had more interior room than any midsized car at the time, but still fell a bit short of a true full-sized car.

    And, they're all just 4-door sedans, as the 2-door, hardtop, convertible, and wagon variants are long since gone.

    I don't really think of my 2000 Park Ave as a very big car. Yet today, I don't think there are any cars left that are as big inside as it is. Unless you go WAY upscale, to something like a long-wheelbase 7-Series, S-class, or A8, maybe?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    Those 5 points are pretty much the largest American failures of the past 60 years. I'd like to see someone like Romney confronted with them, and get his reaction to each and every one.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I think if you're a small car buyer, the choices are better these days. But for more traditional big-car buyers, the market has all but dried up.

    Hasn't the market determined what gets built by what gets bought?

    No, the aren't any more "deuce and a quarter's (Buick Electra 225)" around now, but cars like that (it seems to me, anyway) would have practically a zero market potential in today's market.

    Folks moved from huge sedans to minivans and SUV/SAV's.

    I mean no disrespect here, but other than a few octogenarians and New York pimps, where is the market potential for land yachts these days?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,057
    Some people like something that's different from the rest of the crowd. Again, back then, there were offerings for a wider swath of the population than there is now. I remember hearing Chevrolet advertise something along the lines of, "If we don't make it, you don't want (or need) it". Today, it's like, "Here's what we make, come and get it". Definitely fewer choices.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    ONe positive thing GM does is provide more choice and theoretically more competitition which is good for consumers. While they do provide more choice, I don't think they really have anything that competes in the small and sporty category. I suppose the Cadillac ATS will fill that gaping void, but we'll see.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Red interior?

    My 2010 3-series has a red leather interior with a black sapphire exterior.

    It's a great color combination.

    I also once owned a Buick Century in the 1980's with burgundy interior and exterior. It was pretty, but from a color perspective, it got old after a while...too much of the same color.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    edited March 2012
    People have mindset that pensions, paid vacations, paid holidays, health insurance are items that companies must or are obligated to provide.

    You mean I need to take care of myself? How can this be?

    I thought the 1% were supposed to pay me all of their spare cash to ensure my life is taken care of.

    Or a union to help me earn a lot while reducing my individual accountability.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    The Midwest is the engine that drives this country! We make things here! The South you grow things! The West Coast you entertain us! The East Coast you govern us! :P :P :P

    -Rocky
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,057
    All I can say, tlong, is either you are a business owner or you are not of the age where everyone got a pension and health care of some kind. This was not some new, 'socialist' kind of thing. It was the norm...and I'm a white-collar guy in an office my whole adult life. Up until I was in my early thirties, I honestly didn't know a soul in any job who didn't get these things. Now...sheesh.

    There are plenty of greed arguments to go around about both labor and management, that thing is for certain. Sometimes we forget to look at the big picture. Like it or not, we live in a society. And I've never been on unemployment once in my nearly-54 years (knock wood).
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,057
    No one can actually say they are free market capitalists and at the same time, support tariffs, bailouts, etc. and be consistent.

    It's not about being consistent, it's about being rational and moderate, not extreme. Extremism is the reason nothing ever gets done in D.C. anymore. Sometimes, we have to take something for the team.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    small and sporty category. I suppose the Cadillac ATS will fill that gaping void

    Wow, that's definitely different than my definition of "small and sporty". My wife insisted we get a 2nd generation Honda CRX in'88, and I have to admit that was one of the best decisions we made. It was a great car on many of the 2-lane cowpaths which are roads here in New England. But anyway that is my idea of "small and sporty". The current CRZ is too bulky.

    I guess I'd have to build my dream car from a kit. It'll be low tech - maybe something like the DeTomaso Pantera ... or I've always dreamt of living somewhere warm and having a metallic lime-green dune buggy. I'm certainly not dreaming of anything (maybe the next Corvette) that GM has on the drawing boards.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Not all of Number 5 is bad. I certainly don't want the choking air pollution of Shanghai or a purple river like they have in China. Ones that prohibited the use of certain solvents used to create a decent automotive finish, however, should be abolished.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I quite agree.

    Extremism on both sides of the political spectrum has become the new "norm"... Unfortunately...
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I most definitely would like a new "Deuce-and-a-Quarter" and so would a lot of other people I know. I despise SUVs and crossovers! They're trucks as far as I'm concerned and they've got the ungainly proportions of trucks! I like my cars long, low, wide, and sleek.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    edited March 2012
    Yes, the 1% giving you their gold is directly linked to such first world ideals as vacation time and healthcare. Maybe what we need is a return to Dickensian-era labor conditions, where such horrible luxuries didn't exist. Maybe that type of socio-economic spectrum would be great too, as we're going into a new gilded age anyway.

    If I want to see a reduction in accountability, I just look up the managerial chain.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    True, but none of today's crossovers existed - Equinox and Traverse, for instance. Those sell better than the old Blazer did, I bet. And the Chevy division isn't even getting a version of the Enclave.

    Let's see on Edmunds....Chevy offers 41 models. That includes body style variations like Aveo sedan + hatch (count as 2).

    How many were there in 1975?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,657
    How many were there in 1975?

    I'll take a rough stab at it...

    Chevette: 1
    Vega: 3
    Monza: 1
    Nova: 3
    Camaro: 1
    Malibu: 3
    Monte Carlo: 1
    Full-size Chevy: 6 (I'm just counting body styles...pillared coupe, pillared sedan, hardtop coupe, hardtop sedan, wagon, convertible...not doubling it up for Impala, Caprice, 2-seat/3-seat wagon, etc)
    Corvette: 2

    So, for cars that's 21.

    For trucks (just an estimation here, I could be leaving some off)
    LUV: 2 (probably a short bed and a long bed)
    El Camino: 1
    Blazer: 1 (I think it only came in 1/2 ton, and not heavier-duty versions, but could be wrong)
    Suburban: 3 (I'm guessing it came in 1/2, 3/4, and 1-ton versions)
    C/K truck 1/2-ton 2 (short bed, long bed)
    C/K truck 3/4 -ton 3 (short bed, long bed, crew cab, which only came with a long bed)
    C/K truck 1-ton 3 (same as 3/4 ton)
    Van: no idea. There were short models, long models, passenger models, cargo models, and I think in those days they only came in 3/4 or 1-ton, as they were smart enough to not build a 1/2 ton van, knowing it would be way too easy to overload it. And I think they came in three different lengths, but I could be wrong there.

    So, say around 20-25, depending on how many van configurations there were?

    There's definitely a lot more variety in trucks these days. GM was a latecomer to the concept of a cab and a half. Ford and Dodge offered them back in the 1970's, but GM wouldn't come out with one until the 1988 redesign. Crew cab trucks are more widely offered these days, as well. Back in the 70's, they were mainly intended for construction crews and such, or if you wanted to tow a trailer or have a slide-in truck camper.

    However, if you want what was once the staple of the domestic truck, a regular cab, 8-foot bed, those are pretty rare these days. Toyota and Nissan don't even offer that configuration, and while GM, Ford, and Mopar still do, not too many people buy them, so they don't get ordered that much, and don't hit the used market all that often.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Seems like the number of models hasn't changed all that much, if the 41 Edmunds lists is accurate.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,057
    edited March 2012
    Seems pretty basic to me. In '75, the Vega, Monza, Nova, Chevelle, Monte Carlo, full-size, Camaro, and Corvette lines all looked distinctively different. Now there is Sonic, Cruze, Malibu, Impala, Camaro, Corvette. Six distinctive lines, versus eight. You can add the Spark and I'll add the Chevette, both 'coming soon'. And as we've said, the number of bodystyles in the full-size line was amazing. Now the Impala line has...one, compared to six (counting Caprice convertible then).

    You're a young guy if you don't remember the Blazer selling well! They were everywhere.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Right, fewer car lines, but crossover lines have filled that gap - Equinox and Traverse.

    Those may not look the part, but they are cars (unibody designs).
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,657
    edited March 2012
    I think the lack of body styles, coupled with aerodynamics, makes it seem like there are fewer choices today. For the most part, nowadays mainstream compact, mid, and full-sized cars are all 4-door sedans. There's still stuff out there like the Civic, Accord, and Altima coupes, the Solara, and the 200 convertible, but the vast majority of sales are 4-door sedans.

    And today the cars all tend to look more or less alike because of aerodynamics. There are only so many shapes they can come up with that are aerodynamic in the interests of fuel economy, yet still yield some decent space efficiency. So styling a car today is often akin to simply drawing a face on a balloon.

    Oh, and the manufacturers and buyers tend to be much more conservative when it comes to colors these days. So even if there's a blue, red, green, or whatever offered, most buyers are going for the generic silver, white, or gray. Or they might get a wild streak for a moment and go beige.

    I'm really not looking forward to the next time I need to buy a car, because more and more, it just seems like it'll be about as exciting as going out and shopping for a refrigerator.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,057
    I consider Equinox and Traverse to be 'trucks'--in fact, I wouldn't doubt that the brochure says "Chevy Trucks", and/or if you take one in for service, the invoice will have preprinted, "Chevy Truck", then "Equinox", or whatever.

    There were trucks back then that there aren't now, too.

    I'm not a truck customer.

    You had to be there. I was old enough to be shopping Chevys then and still am now. No comparison in choices.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    I think those being "trucks" might get into the overcompensating paranoid reason why they have replaced wagons to begin with. I bet putting "truck" on the promotional literature appeases the customer, who likes to imagine being tough and safe and rugged.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I agree.

    Then you get those "not for off road use" warning stickers all over the place, and limited tow ratings, too.

    To be fair the Traverse actually does fairly well in that regard.

    Still, I bet my dad's '84 Olds Custom Cruiser station wagon could tow more than both those crossovers combined.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Actually looks good, though to me the current Impala is just about the least attractive Chevy I can think of, so any change is good.

    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/21/new-york-auto-show-confirms-2014-chevy-impala- -debut-via-facebook/
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    So the current one won't be replaced until 2014? That makes 8 model years with barely any updates. No wonder it only sells to fleets and a few senile die-hards. MB couldn't even get away with that kind of lifespan back in the good old days.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,057
    Where's the pics? LOL!

    I actually think the current Impala, if equipped with the aluminum wheels that were only used on the LTZ back in the prehistoric days (!), with no spoiler, still is handsome. The rear-seat legroom is inexcusable for a car that size, though...and I'm a Chevy guy.

    I still see a bunch of 'em though.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,657
    I parked next to a 2006+ Impala today when I got back to work from lunch. It was black, had alloys, cloth interior, no sunroof or spoiler. I didn't see a badge on the trunk denoting the trim level.

    I agree, it's a handsome looking car. IMO car styling has been stagnating for decades, and nothing's really new, just regurgitated. So, while the car itself may be out of date, to me at least, it doesn't LOOK out of date! :P

    I'll give them credit though, for giving it an improved engine/transmission for 2012.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,057
    I'll give them credit for improving the drivetrain too, and as I've said before, I like the bench-seat option...impression of added roominess, and I've never felt a center console that felt as good as a cloth center armrest!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    >I agree, it's a handsome looking car.

    It was good enough for Honda to emulate the styling for 2 or 3 years.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just teaser pics for now, I like the C-pillar though, and that's what I don't like about the current one. :D

    I wonder if it will get the giant 12.3" LCD from Cadillac? Probably not.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    I'm really not looking forward to the next time I need to buy a car,

    When are you going to need a car? 2112? You have enough to make it through then just on attrition! :P

    Figures. They'll unveil the Impala in NY. Here I am in NYC and will be here for months but can't hit a public place....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
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