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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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Comments

  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited October 2012
    IMO, by the time GM finally worked out most of the self-inflicted problems built into the Vega/Astre, the model had so o o o much negativity associated with it that it was easier to kill the model and move on.

    While Chevrolet has indeed kept some model names around for years, I'm sure we can agree that the likelihood of seeing another Vega-named model in our lifetime is slim to none.

    What I think most folks don't understand is the market that both the Pinto and Vega aimed at... The VW Beetle, low priced car market. It was a market in which neither had much experience, and not a whole lot of management support in execution (remember Henry Ford II-small cars mean small profits). It was only natural that every cost-cutting step be taken, but it appears no one ever looked beyond saving money, or what the results would be if too many $$$ were cut. The original Vega design and manufacturing process proposed was significantly different from the actual model introduced and manufactured.

    It was a useful lesson for the car industry as a whole, more so for GM and Ford.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Still following (LMAO)!

    This is from last March but underscores the point the fanboys continuje to evade...the lead the rest of the world got while the D3 were on the koolaid is extremely difficult to recapture.

    Of the 10 models that comprise our final list of 10 Worst-Built Cars for 2012, all but two of them, the Smart ForTwo and Toyota FJ Cruiser, come from domestic-brand automakers, specifically Chrysler LLC and General Motors. While those automakers have been making great strides in recent years with new and recently redesigned models, they’re still recovering from their near-death experiences in 2008-2009 and the laggards in their respective lines awaiting major makeovers or replacements continue to haunt them.

    “GM and Chrysler are building nicer cars with each redesign. Still, their scores are dragged down by several older designs that score low in Consumer Reports testing or have reliability issues,” says David Champion, senior director, Consumer Reports Automotive Test Center, “As more new products are introduced, their fortunes could change if they can improve their overall reliability.”


    Huge IF! :P

    The Worst-Built Cars

    Regards,
    OW
  • js06gvjs06gv Member Posts: 456
    I miss the print versions too. I've been collecting them since 1983 and my last is 2009. I didn't immediately realize they stopped printing them and kept looking for the 2010 and up copies in bookstores for years.

    2019 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2019 Ford Mustang GT Premium, 2016 Kia Optima SX, 2013 Ford F-150 King Ranch, 2000 Pontiac Trans Am WS6, 2001 Kawasaki Vulcan 800 Classic

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    Wow...the GM models are the oldest current vehicle still built by GM and due to be replaced (Colorado) and what is probably the second-oldest GM's still being built...the full-size SUV's.

    Forbes? The first name I think of when I think of car reviews.

    How many models does GM and Chrysler make in total, compared to any Japanese/Korean manufacturer? I think we all know the answer to that one.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    Geez, you're not sore are you, that a Honda was chosen second behind a...gulp..a Chevrolet?!

    Think today, not ten or twenty years ago.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Today:

    1. Equinox Sales YTD = 166,862 AOL Auto Top Pick for 2012

    2. CR-V Sales YTD = 213,381 J.D> Power Top pick - Multi-year

    Go #2!!!

    With the previous-generation CR-V recognized as a "Top Recommended Vehicle" and having the "Best Retained Value SUV under $25,000" by Edmunds.com, and named top compact crossover SUV in dependability by J.D. Power and Associates, the all-new 2012 model introduces the latest evolution of Honda's successful CR-V formula.

    Regards,
    OW
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    Would that apply to traffic tickets and receipts as well?

    As long as the business isn't trying to falsely profit off a bogus company policy, or the local jurisdiction trying to cash in on revenues from undeserved traffic tickets.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    Honda CR-V=not a leader.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    edited October 2012
    My father in law got my my mother in law an Equinox a few years ago. I'm almost certain their next CUV (or any car for that matter) will not be another Equinox.

    Go GM!

    For balance... my wife and I saw the new CRV design on the road yesterday, and she hated it, while I didn't care for it. That being said, I could put up with ugly looks in a CRV if it's reliable.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    I just checked today at the library for the latest issue of consumer reports and they had a multi-car evaluation with short summaries of Ford Escape, Acura ILX, Buick Verano, Panamera, Karma, and Infinity JX.

    They're still doing the same kind of multiple car comparisons/evaluations.


    And I'd like to point out that the Acura ILX beat the Buick Verano nicely, it was competitive, but the Acura was still superior overall.

    The Panamera trounced the Karma; it wasn't even close, talk about a landslide!
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    , I could've enjoyed a new Vega wagon, and the engine was warrantied 5 yrs./60K miles, which was unheard of then. The rustproofing was much improved, as documented pretty specifically in the sales brochure for that model year.

    A long warranty didn't help save Chrysler or GM (both went bankrupt, despite gov't assistance), and Chrysler's "lifetime" warranty was unheard of at the time, though if you ever read the fine print, it wasn't really a substantial warranty.

    Chrysler coming out with a sales brochure telling me the Dart is better than the Neon isn't going to get any new customers back.

    7 years from now if CR is still giving the Dart red dots; now that'll win some sales!
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    GM = Never a leader. :)

    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    Note to andres3:

    Vega engine long warranty: 1976
    GM bankruptcy: 2009

    Hardly the two are related.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    Except in compact SUV's. You buy into Forbes, but not Edmunds?
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    edited October 2012
    >I'd like to point out that the Acura ILX beat the Buick Verano nicely,

    Yup, that's really gonna hurt the sales of Verano. You know how many people want those Acuras with bad transmissions and ugly faces.

    Yup, wifey and I were just debating at the dinner table last evening about which of those we'd buy next.

    We couldn't figure out which would be better in the snow here and would be a good grocery car to run to Kroger. ;)

    And we were real worried about what Consumer Reports had to say with their stellar, unbiased reputation through the years. We talked about Ralph and how he helped launch the magazine on its current path.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Wow...the GM models are the oldest current vehicle still built by GM and due to be replaced (Colorado) and what is probably the second-oldest GM's still being built...the full-size SUV's.

    Well, every other make has old models, too. Yet they aren't on the list.

    Forbes? The first name I think of when I think of car reviews.

    Opinion doesn't agree = attack the source. Forbes. C&D. Motor Trend. Inside Line. CR. Etc. (not pointing at you, but at the loyalists in general)

    How many models does GM and Chrysler make in total, compared to any Japanese/Korean manufacturer? I think we all know the answer to that one.

    Perhaps if they were making fewer models, they would pay more attention to the details? Toyota is about as big as GM. Do they have as many models? Perhaps GM could be more successful by pruning the old crummy models. I wonder why they don't do that?
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Vega engine long warranty: 1976
    GM bankruptcy: 2009

    Hardly the two are related.


    While I'd agree there's not a strong relationship, I don't agree there's *no* relationship.

    As I've recounted before, my college carpool partner had a new '74 Vega GT in '75 and '76. I personally watched it rust and develop body holes. Then I heard a year or two later about his engine failing (around 60K miles. I heard him say he'd NEVER buy another GM product. That was MY first introduction to GM. And his siblings and friends all heard it, too. How many other families and friends went through those situations, or similar?

    How about my SIL's Chevy Citation with the stupid vertical radio that was in the shop more than on the road? How many people involved with those owners received an impression of GM?

    Shabby product impacts last DECADES. And it started around the time of the Vega. And it continued through the 80s and 90s into the early 00's. Combine that with inept management and a greedy union, and it's just another straw that helped break the camel's back.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    Wow. They made a car that was preferable to a Chevette. Congratulations.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited October 2012
    I buy into CR-V. The leader before 2008 and beyond. CR-V is the leading seller in it's class for a reason. You would not know since you do not follow the segment, it seems.

    My experience: No out of pocket repairs out of warranty. A/C is perfect, brakes still great after 58K, no issues. Dealer visits: 1 for recall on the A/T re-flash, 2 for A/T fluid change, rear diff oil change.

    That's all I need. What about you???

    First Honda I ever owned is doing phenomenally well. Blows away my last many GM experiences into the weeds. :shades:

    Regards,
    OW
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I've seen a few Verano's also. I would think it is a different car than an Acura ILX. Isn't the Acura smaller? The Verano strikes me as an American riding compact, while the ILX as more of a sportier car. Neither really appeals to me.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Did you notice the new CRV is not as tall as the previous version? Same goes for the Odyssey. To me, one of the reasons why you buy those things is to sit up higher. I wish they had stuck to lines more like the second gen CRV, except ditching the exposed spare and dumb hearse tailgate. This trend toward sloping back ends just takes away already short luggage space, as well as rear visibility to me.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    First Honda I ever owned is doing phenomenally well. Blows away my last many GM experiences into the weeds.

    You will be even more amazed at 100K or 125K. My current '05 TL at 128K has had virtually nothing go wrong. Our Ody is at 85 K with an electric window motor replacement as its only issue. Our '90's Accord went 120K with no problems until we gave to our inlaws and then an unlicensed driver rear ended them and totalled it.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited October 2012
    My BIL and I went looking at cars on Saturday to kill some time and get away from the wives and kids for a while.

    We stopped at a Chevy, Buick, and GMC dealership. Yeah, you heard that right. Seems odd a dealer would sell these 3 all at the same location.

    Anyway, we checked out the Verano and Malibu. The Verano is nice. I don't see it as an ILX competitor as the Verano just seems less sporty, but more plush than an ILX. I didn't care for the Malibu, inside or out.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    edited October 2012
    Circlew, as always, you are being disingenous.

    The Colorado is a 2002 design. Yes, it is in need of replacement. Does anyone else still build a 2002 design to compare with?

    Number of models=consumer choice.

    So it's OK if you disagree with the source (in this case, an Edmunds story that is very recent, not the years-old stuff you enjoy bringing up?)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    Note to tlong: Guess what? Early Hondas were rust-buckets also, and Accord CVCC engines were pigs, reliability-wise. They just weren't sold in the numbers that seven model years of Vegas were, back then.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    Your CR-V has been to the dealer for more things than my Cobalt. Fact. Oil changes, tire rotations, and a thermostat. Thermostat and new coolant, free. Original battery.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    edited October 2012
    As I've recounted before, my college carpool partner had a new '74 Vega GT in '75 and '76. I personally watched it rust and develop body holes.

    We can agree to disgree on this one. I watched Vegas closely back then. We lived in a heavy-snow, heavy-road-salt area. I never (and I mean NEVER) saw holes in a Vega in "one or two years". I did see holes around windshields in Vegas...'71's and '72's...when they were maybe three or four or five years old. That's still far too soon. But I think memories have a way of making the good things great and the bad things horrible over the years, when reality is someplace in the middle.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    (Sigh) as usual, the point is missed.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743

    The Colorado is a 200. design. Yes, it is in need of replacement. Does anyone else still build a 2002 design to compare with?


    Did you ever think that its NOT a good thing to be selling a 10 year old design and THAT is why no one else is stupid enough to do it?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    Is it dumber to sell a 2002 design than not to be in that segment? I don't know about that. Although I dislike the styling of the Colorado (and am able to admit it), it gave them a compact pickup to sell. I see fleets of them around.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    On a much different note, I 'cross the aisle' to wish you, bpizzuti, good luck in dealing with the storm your way. We're even dealing with it here in NE OH. "Be careful out there".

    Andre picked a good time to be in Aruba!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Thanks for the well wishes. Same to you and yours.

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    So Honda, Mazda and Kia beat Caddy, Buick GMC and Chevy. Wow. :shades:

    Consumer Reports' reliability ratings

    Automakers were ranked based on average predicted reliability scores:

    1. Scion
    2. Toyota
    3. Lexus
    4. Mazda
    5. Subaru
    6. Honda
    7. Acura
    8. Audi
    9. Infiniti
    10. Kia
    11. Cadillac
    12. GMC
    13. Nissan
    14. Mercedes-Benz
    15. Chevrolet
    16. BMW
    17. Hyundai
    18. Volkswagen
    19. Jeep
    20. Volvo
    21. Buick
    22. Mini
    23. Chrysler
    24. Dodge
    25. Ram
    26. Lincoln
    27. Ford
    28. Jaguar


    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    edited October 2012
    "Predicted" reliability rating? What does that mean? What model years are covered? So, it's an average of a Colorado and a Malibu, among other things, for Chevrolet?

    Look at Hyundai and BMW, and the darlings of the 'no bailout' crowd, Ford and Lincoln. Tsk tsk.

    Again, this is a rattle is weighed the same as a transmission, right?

    From this report, I would say that Chevrolet Silverado, Equinox, Suburban, Tahoe, and Traverse by themselves would be higher up the list, since GMC markets models virtually identical to those Chevrolet models and GMC is higher up the list than Chevrolet--above Nissan and M-B.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Boy there seems to be some real surprises here. Buick at the bottom of GM near the proverbial bottom feeder Chrysler and Dodge brands. Ford in the pits. I read that the problems aren't limited to Synch either and their newer product introductions have been somewhat dismal in quality. I wonder if they are starting to feel a squeeze from a fixed cost overhang that came from not going BK? Kia, which I believe is the lower cost alternative, is notably above Hyundai. I wonder of that is because Hyundai has more AWD vehicles? Audi winning, and BMW losing, in the German Lux segment. Interesting stuff!
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Looks like CR will remain a force despite the "bailout crowd" whining.

    The rankings, released Monday, predict the reliability of 2013 model-year vehicles based on surveys of Consumer Reports' readers. This year, 800,000 people submitted information on 1.2 million vehicles from the 2010 to 2012 model years. The rankings are critical for auto companies, since Americans frequently cite Consumer Reports as a main source of car-buying advice.

    For balance, here's the good news for GM: they are moving up...from lows earned by years of quality-disease! :P

    Cadillac is the top U.S. brand, having moved up 14 spots this year. Its CTS coupe was the most reliable domestic car. A number of other General Motors nameplates—Buick, Chevrolet, GMC—also moved up in the ranking. The Chevrolet Volt extended-range electric car continues to have above-average reliability,and the compact Chevrolet Cruze, dismal in its first year, improved to average.

    Again, not leading but improving to AVERAGE! :lemon:

    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    edited October 2012
    I would much-prefer a Cruze to anything else in the size and price class. Built down the road from me, and all the mags mention cabin quietness, which seems lost on a lot of cars these days.

    What is your take on Hyundai's decline, and do you think it seems illogical to be so below Kia?

    I'll have to see what U.S. sales of all makes from 2010-2012 have been, to get a feel for what kind of a sample they really get.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Circlew, as always, you are being disingenous.

    Uplander, your post was confusing - you reply to circlew but the post was mine. Not sure how to interpret that.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Number of models=consumer choice.

    Well, GM should certainly have been successful then, as they had ten or more divisions prior to bankruptcy. Tons of nameplate models. How well did that strategy do for them?
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Note to tlong: Guess what? Early Hondas were rust-buckets also, and Accord CVCC engines were pigs, reliability-wise. They just weren't sold in the numbers that seven model years of Vegas were, back then.

    I'm sure early Hondas did rust. But I didn't see them rusting in hot dry Southern California like a huge number of the Vegas did.

    The CVCC may have had its issues, but it was a very innovative engine. I don't think they had anywhere near the problems of GM's early '80's diesels, or the V8-6-4, for example.

    I'm ready to admit GM is an awful lot better than in the past. Are you ready to admit a lot of GM product was junk back in those days?
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    We can agree to disgree on this one.

    Yes, we can. As we have previously on this same issue.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    To me the surprises are:

    Scion doing as well or better than Toyota/Lexus.

    Mazda being way up there, I always hear of a bunch of issues from a small sample size admittedly, but even in the forums people that have owned them seem to have their fair share of issues. Mazda shortening their warranty about 7 years back didn't help.

    I'd of figured Infiniti would be doing better, but not bad.

    Audi being way above VW doesn't surprise me in the least bit, it follows what I have observed, experienced, and noted; it simply just shows Audi spends time and money on quality control, whereas VW skimps in that department a bit.

    For Ford to be below Chrysler; that is dismal!
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    You will be even more amazed at 100K or 125K. My current '05 TL at 128K has had virtually nothing go wrong. Our Ody is at 85 K with an electric window motor replacement as its only issue. Our '90's Accord went 120K with no problems until we gave to our inlaws and then an unlicensed driver rear ended them and totalled it.

    Experiences like that seem typical to me with Honda. I think that's the biggest reason they have superior resale value. In my mind, miles on a used Honda are almost irrelevant, especially compared to important things, like its condition, maintenance, cleanliness, and age.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I'm in Vegas for SEMA/AAPEX. Appreciate the thought though :shades:

    Ford and Dodge bailed out of the segment.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    Sorry about that, tlong. I think I'd accused you once before of being 'circlew'! Your post looked and sounded like a 'circlew' post, though! My mistake.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    GM had ten divisions? Wow, I learn something new here everyday!

    Aren't we talking auto divisions?
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Sorry about that, tlong. I think I'd accused you once before of being 'circlew'! Your post looked and sounded like a 'circlew' post, though! My mistake.

    No problem uplander, and thanks for the message. I'll try to be a little different stylistically than circlew. Don't want to tread on his turf!
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    GM had ten divisions? Wow, I learn something new here everyday!

    Let me try here:

    1. Chevy
    2. Buick
    3. Saturn
    4. Pontiac
    5. Cadillac
    6. Hummer
    7. Opel
    8. Holden
    9. GMC
    10. Oldsmobile
    11. Geo (not really a division, what was it?)

    OK, so Olds has been gone a while, so perhaps 9 more recently. ;)

    I still don't get the purpose out of all of those names. Talk about brand dilution.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Don't forget Vauxhaul, Isuzu, Daewoo...

    In reality those were all brands not specifically divisions.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    Didn't know you were talking world-wide. Let's stick to North America. Was Hummer ever sold at stand-alone dealers? Not in my experience. Same with Geo.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
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