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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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Comments

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Was Hummer ever sold at stand-alone dealers?

    I've seen Hummer dealers that were separate from other GM brands. I don't know how wide spread they were, but I've seen them in large cities.

    Regardless, IMO, Hummer was definitely marketed as its own division. I don't know about Geo other than I've only seen them sold at Chevy dealers.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I've seen Hummer dealers that were separate from other GM brands. I don't know how wide spread they were, but I've seen them in large cities.

    IIRC, GM wanted stand alone showrooms for Hummer like so:

    image
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    I've only ever seen Hummer and Cadillac in the same building.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Can't speak for everywhere, but in Greenville SC and Columbia SC, the Hummer dealerships had their own specially-designed buildings and car lots, apart from any other model.

    Now, whether or not they were included as part of another dealership business/entity/corporation, I can't say. But, I can say without any doubt that the marketing intent was to imply the dealership was independent of any other model, and was advertised on the TV and radio as such. It was always "XXX Hummer", never "XXX Hummer, Chevrolet-Buick", etc...
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    It looks like he forgot to list SAAB, but I suppose they dropped that division a couple years ago!
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    In Bellevue WA, there was a Hummer-only building like that. Kind of ridiculous, but it worked out well - Hummer went under around the same time the local Caddy dealer lost their lease, so Caddy is now in the building.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    The buildings in SC were rather gaudy, massive chrome structures, which I guess the designers thought might be along the same lines as the vehicles being sold from their locations...
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    Would you have considered Volvo a 'division' of Ford? I didn't...saw it as a foreign make they handled. A division to me means designed, assembled, and marketed in North America...Chev, Pontiac, Olds, Saturn, Buick, Cadillac--each of which were often sold in their individual dealerships, hundreds that way, Ford, Mercury, Lincoln were divisions (Lincoln-Mercury one division with two makes of cars); Chrysler, Dodge, and Plymouth, similarly.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I did. Have to admit to taking a little perverse pleasure in asking a new owner in the extended family how she liked her new Ford back in '03 or so. :blush:

    "In 1999, Volvo sold its car division Volvo Cars to Ford Motor Company for $6.45 billion." (Wikipedia)
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    For me, Volvo and Mazda's association with Ford made me far less likely to consider a Volvo or Mazda, and that effect on me lingers somewhat even to this day.

    For instance, Mercedes just doesn't interest me as the infection of Chrysler lingers. The stench is hard to get rid of :)
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Didn't know you were talking world-wide. Let's stick to North America. Was Hummer ever sold at stand-alone dealers? Not in my experience. Same with Geo.

    OK, perhaps I should have said "brands" instead of "divisions". And yes, worldwide if it's part of GM.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Likewise. My Cadillac dealer had a Hummer franchise for a while until they moved to their new location.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    There's treatment for obsessions and compulsions today, you know. ;)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    association with Ford made me far less likely to consider a Volvo

    Had the exact opposite association for me and I remember seeing Volvo's reliability scores go up after Ford got them.

    The results are in:

    General Motors 3Q profit falls 12 percent on Europe losses, North America warranty costs (Washington Post)

    "Its overall performance soundly beat Wall Street expectations, pushing up the stock price in Wednesday premarket trading.

    Excluding one-time items, GM made 93 cents per share, easily beating Wall Street expectations of 60 cents.

    That drove GM shares up $1.05, or 4.5 percent, to $24.33 in premarket trading."

    Only in America can falling profits juice your stock value. :D
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Jaguar's association with Ford definitely improved their image over the dismal days when they were associated with the abyssmal British-Leyland.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    I have to believe that recalls of cars still under warranty would fall under 'warranty costs'. That 400K recall of Cruzes is unfortunately probably part of that number.

    I still like the Cruze.

    Matter of fact, Ford's dismal quality ratings of late wouldn't keep me from buying one if I've liked them in the past, like the current product, and have a good dealer.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    "Its overall performance soundly beat Wall Street expectations,

    This is what the market cares about - did earnings best expectations this quarter.

    I have a stock that once beat all the analysts expectations soundly except for one - and the stock took a beating that day. It didn't matter that all indicators were up. The market concentrated on one thing - an increase in marketing expenditures.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's just driver error like the toyotas

    Remember Edmunds found that the complaint rate for SUA was twice as bad for Ford as it was for Toyota up until Nov 09.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Our Vega rusted almost immediately. I don't think rust is flammable so the fire claim must be bogus. :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ford will improve as the learning curve for MyFord touch improves. This is a matter of customers learning things. People have a hard time giving up buttons and knobs.

    I predict this dip will be temporary, especially as others adopt similar tech (Entune for Toyota, UVO for Kia, etc).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Not a GM on the [10 least reliable] list.

    That's huge, actually.

    In reality poor reliability has far more "veto" power than good reliability will ever sell cars.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited October 2012
    I've always liked these Lambdas and a neighbor and a friend just picked up a couple of these.

    Neighbor got a CPO Traverse in granite metallic. Handsome color. 2nd neighbor to buy one of these, though the other one drove it to California when they moved.

    Life long friend also picked up a new Enclave, 2012, leather plus navi, dual moonroof (nice), backup cam. $42k but lacking exactly nothing. Pretty sweet ride. Pearl white with 19" rims.

    He's a little self conscious about being too young for a Buick (in his eyes), and also felt like they splurged too much, but the wife pushed for it, and helped pay.

    They got a 9 year warranty with something like 85k miles, since they do few miles per year, and financed it for 6 years. So it will be paid off and they'll still have 3 years left on the warranty, not bad I suppose. That is a long loan, though.

    Traded in a Chevy TrailBlazer so loyal to GM.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I dunno... Some Vegas probably caught fire when the insurance policy overheated and burst into flames...
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    edited October 2012
    My grandparents actually bought the very first new Vega our dealer got in...a '71 dark green cheapo sedan, one-barrel, 3-speed, pumpkin-colored interior with rubber on the floor. I remember seeing it the day the dealer got it (I about lived there at the time, despite only having a bike as mobility). They went from a '67 Impala Sport Coupe to this! Theirs was one of two Vegas in the showroom on Vega introduction day in late '70--Vegas were introduced separately from the rest of the new '71 Chevys. The other was a lime green hatchback automatic with Custom interior...much nicer, but Grandpa said he tried out the back seat and hit his head in the hatchback.

    They only had 6K (yes, that's right) miles in six years, 'til Grandpa stopped driving. It sat out all the time, and in NW PA, but only had the slightest beginning of a bubble on top of the LF fender in around '75. The Chevy dealer 'repaired' it for free. No rust around the windshield. I was lobbying for the car, but they ended up selling it to my aunt who lived about an hour away. Her husband said he had to replace the fuel filter twice en route home! I occasionally have dreams that they're still alive and I go to visit them and that Vega is in a garage near the house.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    If you emailed them, would they be able to send you the links or the info???
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    If you have a pressing need to know something, perhaps. They probably use all that stuff to fact check all the editorial side stuff. We often have more entertaining reading in the forums, probably because we get a bit loosey-goosey with hard data.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited November 2012
    Even I can't defend the Vega except to say it was about the most attractive subcompact car on the market at the time.

    My Grandmom traded her super-reliable black 1964 Chevrolet Biscayne sedan for a mustard colored new 1973 Vega. Even as an eight year-old kid, I could see this was a sloppily built car. There were a lot of cheap and ill-fitting hard plastic bits, the headliner was this perforated particle-board stuff that looked like it was warped in one corner, and it was cramped and uncomfortable in the back for my six year-old brother and I. Many is the time when brother and I sat in the back while Grandmom was at the Chevy dealer complaining about one malady after another to the mechanic with the hood of the Vega raised. Grandmom should be nominated for sainthood as she tolerated this turd for 7 years before replacing it with a new 1980 Chevrolet Monza that turned out to be a much better car. The Vega? It was scrapped and the junkyard gave her a generous $75 for it!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Even I can't defend the Vega except to say it was about the most attractive subcompact car on the market at the time

    It obviously had some appeal - look how many of our families owned one.

    I guess it disappointed a lot of people by not meeting expectations.

    I think we still talk about it several decades later because these small cars (Vega, Pinto, Pacer) opened the door for imports as alternatives.

    Today, the Cruze, Dart, and Focus are fully competitive cars and shouldn't create disloyalty the way those older cars did.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    look how many of our families owned one.

    Seven years, almost two million sold.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My brother (actually, sister-in-law) just took delivery of her new Chevy Spin. Here's what they look like:

    http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2012/06/new-chevrolet-spin-is-mpv-version-of.html

    I thought it was a long wheelbase Buick Encore, from the look of it, but looks like it's actually a stretched Cobalt platform (new Cobalt, not the predecessor to the Cruze).
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    If not for the license plate identifying it, this would've been a good pic for "Mystery Car Pics."
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    Seven years, almost two million sold.

    Unlike explaining 5 trillion dollar tax cuts, the math on this one is easy.

    That's over 250,000 sold per year! Pretty good!

    I wonder if GM made any money on the Vega considering how much warranty work they must have spent.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    My eyes!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'll post one using Picasa, good idea.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Oh c'mon fin, not everyone can afford a $70,000 AMG super sedan.

    GM has to make cars for plebes, too.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    edited November 2012
    Plenty of cheap cars aren't so visually disturbing. It's not even Asian-goofy, it's just a shapless blob.

    Not to mention, given the socio-economics of Brazil, someone who is buying that Chevy is the relative equivalent of a new AMG buyer here.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Not quite, that's a pretty mainstream car. It replaces the Meriva microvan, so fairly affordable relatively speaking.

    Reminds me of the Buick Encore a little, with an awkward wheebase stretch.

    Hers has a tiny 3rd row and is flex fuel. Funny - it makes more power on Ethanol vs. gas.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    I guess it is tall, so it can haul stuff. Might be the best merit. "Awkward" is a way to describe it.

    What percentage of the population there could afford it, though? That's what I was getting at.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The fed there is supporting loans for autos so more than you might expect.

    Car sales have outpaced infrastructure/roads improvements, so congestion is the big problem. That's why even a 7 seater like the Spin gets a tiny, fuel efficient engine.

    Cost is less than half what an Equinox would cost (imported).
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    "Awkward" is a way to describe it.

    You're being charitable. I'd call it ugly.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I wonder if GM made any money on the Vega considering how much warranty work they must have spent.

    Probably. Remember warranties were only 12/12 back then.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    edited November 2012
    Money may well have been made on the Vega model, and cars like it and the Pinto, but the dissatisfaction they created in the buying public had to go a long way in tempting formerly loyal big-3 buyers to take a look that the arriving Japanese competition.

    There's no real way to quantify it, but I'd bet good money that if all the aspects could be compiled, cars like the Vega and Pinto were indeed money making profit centers, but major league money / sales losers for GM and Ford over the long run.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    Probably. Remember warranties were only 12/12 back then.

    No, I don't remember 12/12 warranties.... you've just dated yourself :P :surprise:

    It's okay, not everyone can by young and energetic ;)
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,055
    Hell, in the '50's, warranties were 90 days or 4,000 miles!

    I definitely remember when GM reverted from either 3/36 or 5/50 back to 12 mos./12K miles, for the '71 model year. My Dad was miffed.

    Even into the '80's, I think that's all they were, with powertrain being 2/24--at least at GM.

    GM warrantied Vega front fenders after 12/12, and as mentioned previous, for '76 and '77 models warrantied the engine for 5 yrs./60K miles, which nobody else did then.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    V8 Vega which could be had for only $3995.+TTL

    V8 Vega
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    There was also the Cosworth Vega:

    image
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's actually a good looking car for the time.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/02/hyundai-kia-admit-exaggerated-mileage-claims-- will-compensate-o/

    Circle dub can expect a check back from Kia for probably close to $100 or so.
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