Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
They weren't fast by today's standards, but they were fast for a four, good-looking, and collectible today (though not bringing huge money). The sticker was $6,300 and it was eventually sold to a little old lady who worked at Thiel College...no s**t. She traded in a '72 Nova six for it and the salesman, who was my Dad's salesman, said that 'it reminded her of her husband's old Corvair'. She could barely see over the wheel. One day while parked in our library parking lot, an acquaintance went over and tapped on the fenders and realized she was sitting in it! She was amused. That guy owns the car now as she passed and it went through two or three other owners before being traded in the '90's at a Chevy dealer fifteen miles away, on a used Corvette. He bought it there. BTW, the $6,300 sticker price was down to $4,800 before her trade, according to the paperwork that came with the car when the current owner bought it.
Wonder how much the lawyers are getting this time? At least owners get something.
WHAT? They aren't 100% the perfect cars? Amazing.
Just saw one getting great mileage today: Kia Optima sitting along I-75 with its flashers going. No driver. No movement. Great gas mileage!
A few days ago saw an Optima on a flatbed truck being helped back to the garage.
Is there a problem with these Kias?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Kia was up 13% but Hyundai reported their first drop in 2 years.
Now imid, you just KNOW that all brands except GM are perfect. :P
Exactly my point. Why are these cars having troubles? They're the perfect ones.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
GM. Toyota, Ford, etc etc have been criticized, and rightly so, for designing to the EPA tests and/or making it hard to reach the numbers in any situation outside of the EPA test. But it looks like they outright fudged the tests intentionally, though they're not admitting that they fudged them with the objective of a 40 MPG rating (the idea was to "ensure accuracy hah!).
Like their cars, you get what you pay for!!!!
That would be an improvement over the GM vehicles I've had.
That would be an improvement over the GM vehicles I've had.
Exactly! With the Korean brands, you get what you pay for, lower initial cheap costs, and perhaps some extra hassles and decreased fuel economy down the road.
With the US brands, it seems you pay top dollar and get bottom feeding product.
I do remember having a discussing with circle a few months ago, that MT got only 20 or 21 mpg with their Optima, and he was arguing that the EPA rating was 37. THAT is quite a difference.
That's what MT got out of a '13 2.5 powered Malibu in this months family car comparison.
Granted they weren't testing highway mileage, but calculated the mileage during the entire evaluation.
I agree. My wife has averaged about 25mpg over the 35k miles she's put on her '11 Taurus. When I drive it, the average will easily drop 5+mpg.
With that statement, it is crystal clear to me how long it's been since you've actually shopped a domestic brand for price. I'm not talking sticker...I'm talking about what you can actually buy for if you're even the remotest negotiator.
BTW, Ford seems less inclined to move off of MSRP than GM and Dodge around here. Not quite as glued to MSRP as Subaru (this IS the northeast after all) but pretty close.
But, to be fair, rental cars, or any car for that matter, probably lives a very rough life down there. We had the a/c running all the time, usually full blast, and just about all the driving was local stop and go, very rare that I even had the chance to get up to 80 kph.
I kinda looked down my nose at the car when Avis gave it to me. But all in all, it wasn't a bad car. It was fairly comfortable and roomy, and had a big trunk...seemed much roomier than the 16 cubic feet the EPA rates it at. I just hope we didn't bring any roaches back home, because of it!
Was it the kind that is a creepy crawly, or the type Cheech might have left behind?;)
Yes. GM-Disease is easily curable. :shades:
Regards,
OW
Your relative youth is showing.
It's been that way since the mists of prehistory in the auto-buying world.
I consistently get 26mpg tank/tank on commutes to work which is stop and go turnpike/back roads 50/50.
Seems my model wasn't affected!
EPA Investigation Prompts Carmaker to Correct Inflated Mileage Claims
1 mpg in most cases. No big deal but like I said before, GM-Disease is highly contagious given the quest to be #1 instead of "The Best".
I noticed sales of the Malibu have fallen well below the Optima. What's going on??
Regards,
OW
Only for auto companies that required bailouts. Gee, maybe there's a pattern there! :shades:
What changed over my lifetime was the amount, in $$$ and %%%, of those discounts.
Unless it was a year-end clearance of bloated model lineups in the 1960's, getting anything like a 10% discount on a new car purchase was unheard of.
Today, with manufacturer rebates, dealer discounts and special programs (ie., student, military, first time buyer discounts), its certainly not unheard of to see a $20K car discounted well over $2K, even before the price "dickering" begins.
And, from the car buying I've done in my life, the Big-3 seem to be leading the pack in that regard.
It's great for a buyer wanting the highly discounted product, and it may indeed be an excellent deal, but it does nothing to improve the image of the selling car company. In fact, it "brands" it with an inferior image.
Your reply tells me you don't care, obviously your GM does things the right way and it matters not if they lose money, right?
I know that this time your rude comment was not directed at me but it's the one that puts you over the top. You've made it to my ignore list.
Problem could be the test itself, which is performed on a dyno indoors, which all sorts of mathematical corrections. Lots of numbers to play with.
I keep reading that idle start/stop doesn't affect EPA number, but it sure would change real world mileage.
I'm skeptical when I see Ford claiming the C Max beats its rival by +7mpg, it just doesn't sound realistic. If it actually does, it would be on my short list for my minivan replacement, as I will likely downsize the family car next time around.
That's sort of the point I was making. And, it isn't just those brands...
GM's attempt at implementing "no discount selling", ala Saturn, was a failure, both in its pricing strategy and product lineup. Dent free door and body panels? Not on any recently made Saturn that I remember. Saturn simply became America's Opel dealer.
The pricing strategy failed because buyers knew who owned Saturn, and if the Saturn dealer wouldn't discount, the guy right down the street at the next big-3 dealership would be more than happy to oblige.
I give credit to GM for its attempt to break out of the "discount pricing" model, but it was never going to work due to the way the rest of GM operated its sales patterns.
Apple certainly has proven you can gain market share, without discounting, by selling desirable products. Some may say "only yuppee-types buy Apple stuff", but it's awful difficult to argue with Apple's results... And there isn't any shortage of competition in the market Apple operates in, either.
If they really did cut discounts, claimed income would drop.
Example: say a car sells for $25,000 but comes with a $3000 rebate. On paper, they will add $25,000 to sales, and then add a line item for incentives at ($3000) to offset.
Truth is it was $22000 in sales, not $25k.
But by adding the rebate, they can claim sales are 3/22 = 14% greater!
The real loser is the consumer, in states like MD you pay sales tax on the pre-rebate amount. At 6% here in MD, that means you pay an extra $180 in state sales tax just so GM can fudge their income statement to look better.
Dealer friends I speak to ask for Factory-to-dealer incentives instead, because that's not taxed, and lowers the price a consumer pays by that $180.
It's basically a game of numbers. If GM eliminated all rebates tomorrow and instead just lowered prices by the same amount, Wall Street would scream murder about a huge drop in "sales" the next quarter and the stock would plummet.
It's a messed up system.
Did the poster who claims people who 'Buy 'Murican' are racist, make it to your 'ignore' list?
I could only add that apparently you haven't been reading two or three of the regular posters' posts here, for very long.
I don't go on a Toyota forum and spew venom... because I don't like Toyotas. But there's a lot of the opposite that goes on here.
What in your opinion is the reason for Hyundai's reliability free fall of late?
1) The first GM rebates I'm aware of were on 1975 model cars, in Feb. of that year. The Chevy Monza 2+2 had a $500 rebate which was over 10% of base retail. I know this because I had two friends whose parents bought new Monzas during the rebate period. The one ordered a 4-cyl. but when it couldn't be delivered by the end of the month, bought a V8 instead to get the rebate. My friend wasn't exactly crestfallen about that.
2) I remember our new 1973 Nova, which was a popular model of the Number One nameplate at the time. Sticker was $2,625 including destination for a six, three-speed coupe. We were trading in a six, stick '67 Chevelle for which we got $550 trade. I remember at the time our salesman (there for decades) who offered Dad $400 off without trade. Dad didn't want the hassle of trying to sell a car so 'bit'. In other words, we were offered $400 off on a $2,625 sticker...well more than 10%.
My longtime coworker, a Ford guy, bought his first new car in '68--a Torino--and he and I have often said that, although not always, it seems like you got more off on a new car then than now, percentage-wise.
It's too interesting a topic to ignore so I'll still be in here and, yes, Im still talking to you. Peace?
I get so frustrated here too, but then...there's hardly anyone else in my 'real' world to talk cars with! LOL
Yep, that happened to me when I bought my Ram. I paid $1,347 in sales tax on my 2012 Ram. At 6%, that would mean a transaction price of $22,450. Yet the out the door price was only $20,751. I estimate the transaction price of the truck was around $18,200, after you subtract out the freight, tax, and other fees.
GM secures $11 billion line of credit (Detroit News)
I'll add that while everybody is usually polite here, there are snarky comments at times which appear to be thinly veiled insults. If we can criticize various brands, but not each other, it would be better.
I've been on the receiving end of my share, but...some folks are just beggin' for it! LOL
You have and that's because of the title of the thread.
I can say the hecklers here aren't quite as bad as the ones in the Toyota threads, though. Hit and run, too, so now that things are going well the hecklers have disappeared. Of course.
Now if you'll excuse me I'll go finish cleaning up after my hurricane. :shades:
http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2012/11/top-10-most-reliable-american-cars.- html
Of course disregard completely because CR is totally biased. :P
Small cars: Chevrolet Sonic
Fuel-efficient hatchbacks: Chevrolet Volt
Compact sports sedans: Cadillac CTS
Upscale cars: Chrysler 300 (V6)
Sporty cars: Ford Mustang (V6)
Large SUVs: Chevrolet Traverse
Midsized SUVs: Chevrolet Equinox (V6)/GMC Terrain (V6)
Luxury SUVs: Buick Enclave
Full-sized pickups: Chevrolet Avalanche
Gotta tell my buddy who just invested $42 large on his Enclave, he'll be happy.
Heck, the neighbor who bought the used Traverse also!