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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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Comments

  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    For balance... the Cobalt was way better than the Cavalier. But that's like saying Tebow is better than Sanchez.

    Given how little Tebow has played, you might be better off swapping in McElroy instead. Yeah, an improvement, but still no where near the level of "acceptable."

    Tebow's still a big question mark. ;)
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Tebow's still a big question mark

    On your Knee!
  • greg128greg128 Member Posts: 526
    edited December 2012
    For balance... the Cobalt was way better than the Cavalier. But that's like saying Tebow is better than Sanchez.

    MY son had a 2000 Cavalier that we bought new for him in 2000 for $10.5K
    He got a solid 200K miles from it (albeit with about 30K without A/C.) He loved that car in spite of its lousy ride. He bought a 2007 Cobalt fully loaded including leather for $18K. He now has around 100K miles with no problems. I have driven that car for about 100 miles on a 400 mile trip and found it to be smooth, quiet, and fuel efficient. The ride is better than my BIL's 2006 Acura TL.

    I drive a Chevy truck daily and my wife has a Saturn sedan. Both have been well riding and running and completely reliable.

    My only experince recentlly with any Audi or VW products is my younger son's 2012 J etta which has terrible seats and a buzzy engine, and my Neice's Audi SUV which seemed overpriced and overweight.

    It might be hard to fathom with your mind-set, but there are many GM owners that have had and continue to have positive owner experience. I am not a GM stockholder, employee, or hired advocate. I agree many other manufacturers produce good cars and trucks. I think some of them are overated. And some other vehicles are under-rated
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    I had a rental Regal - of course, this was just last year, so it was a "W" VIN Regal. It was a nice car, if not a little laggy off the line. Not a 3er competitor, but I'd probably take one over a 4 banger Camcord.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    I've had rental Cavalier's, Cobalts, Aveo's, and Malibu Classics all from GM.

    Even a Buick LeSabre.

    None of these rental experiences gave me any confidence in the way the Big 3 is making cars.


    I'm assuming you don't rent cars very often by that list of old nameplates. Not one is still being built.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    edited December 2012
    Yes, posted several days ago, OW.

    Googling "December 2012 Auto Recalls" promptly brought this list up, although I believe the Colorado/Canyon recall you mentioned occurred that day as it's not on the list yet. But read through the list and tell me what comes home again and again on the list.

    http://autos.aol.com/article/category/auto-recalls/
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    This was the item I thought was the most entertaining from the list...

    http://autos.aol.com/article/teen-girl-crashes-into-dmv/
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    "Maiming a window frame" is a funny way to describe the damage!

    I always think, 'how could someone push the gas instead of the brake?', but I'll admit, in the '66 Studebaker I recently sold, it had a small, square gas pedal and since the left rear portion of the driver's bucket seat back was bent, I tended to sit far-right in the driver's seat, and once or twice when attempting to hit the brake, I hit the gas and the car leapt a bit. Scary sensation but I stopped it right away.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I always think, 'how could someone push the gas instead of the brake?'

    It happens a lot more than many realize. My wife has about 30 retail stores in her district and it seems like someone crashes into one of them every few months. The latest was only a few weeks ago.

    Sure makes you think twice about walking near a running car in a parking lot. You never know when someone will be in drive when they think they are in reverse or hit the gas instead of the brake.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    I'm assuming you don't rent cars very often by that list of old nameplates. Not one is still being built.

    First, that's a bad sign, the fact not one of those models survives to 2012. Second, your right, I don't rent a lot (usually limited to when someone rear-ends me or I'm getting warranty work done at a dealership that provides free rentals). Now with a new different job however, I may be chiming in on rentals a lot more often.

    However, I do occassionally find myself renting a vehicle, just lately it has been:

    Dodge Avenger
    Mazda 3
    Chevy 2500 HD Pickup (My mechanic's rolling VW/Audi shop advertisement; genius).
    Kia Optima (the previous generation unfortunately)
    Nissan Murano V6

    Out of all those, I'd take the Nissan even though I don't like the CVT transmission.

    The Mazda 3 is OK, but I'd pay more for a GTI/A3, especially in CA as until recently they suffered about 8 HP under OEM specs for the other 49 States.

    I got the Murano because I wasn't going to let the insurance company get away with providing a "Kia Rio" as an equivalent replacement to my A3 as a rental. I wanted a like-kind vehicle. Or at least in the same ballpark.

    When my Accord V6 Coupe got rear-ended, the LeSabre was their answer to "something with a V6 in order to be remotely equal."

    In more ancient times, I had only ONE time in my life a rental model:

    Toyota Corolla
    Honda Civic

    Both are still sold today for what it's worth.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    edited December 2012
    Even Toyota And Nissan discontinue and/or replace model names. Tercel, Echo, Solara, and Stanza come to mind with about five seconds of thought.

    Chevrolet is using the names Impala, Malibu, Camaro, Corvette, Suburban, and Silverado, names they were using 35 years ago. I know that Corona and Cressida and Supra and B-210 and 260Z also aren't being used now as model names.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,654
    I think one reason the domestics change their nameplates so often is to keep their marketing departments busy! It may also be an artifact from the old days of planned obsolescence, where they were constantly trying to get you to trade in for the latest and greatest, and go for the glamour and the fame.

    For instance, in 1955, Chevy's lineup was 150, 210, and Bel Air. In 1964 it was Biscayne, Bel Air, and Impala. But, in the overall scheme of things, was a '64 Impala really that different in status from a 1955 Bel Air?

    The automakers were constantly bringing in new names to make you think they were offering you something new and exciting, but often it was simply a matter of putting a new name on the top model, and then dropping the others down a notch. I'd say things were a little different when the Caprice came out, because initially it was a VERY well-trimmed car, and a step above what was normally associated with the Chevy nameplate.

    But, it got cheapened a bit in the 1970's. For instance, when they moved the convertible from the Impala line to the Caprice for 1973, it still had the Impala level trim as I recall. Didn't they pretty much just peel off the little antelopes on the fake woodgrain of the door panel and replace them with the Caprice shield?

    When the downsized '77 models came out, the Caprice didn't seem quite as special anymore, but I think that's because car interiors in general were becoming more and more plush, and not any cheapening of the Caprice itself. Plus, the Caprice started outselling the Impala that year, so they were just much more common, which probably made them seem less "special".

    Another thing that the domestics tended to do was introduce a new model before they're through with the previous one. For instance, the Ford Maverick came out while the Falcon was still in production. The Aspen/Volare were introduced while the Dart/Valiant were still being sold. And Chevy sold the Malibu and its replacement Celebrity alongside each other for two years. So, because of them doing stuff like that, they HAVE to come up with new names!
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    edited December 2012
    The domestics used to frequently 'push down' a model name after a few years. The Bel Air was once top-of-the-line, and kept getting 'pushed down' 'til it was the bargain-basement model. Same with Delray and Caprice (just plain Caprice) at Chevrolet. At Ford it was the same with 'LTD' and 'Fairlane', and at Mopar, 'Polara' comes to mind quickly.

    Regarding the '77 big Chevys, I can remember going out back at Bob Mayberry Chevrolet in Sharon, PA where they had a handful of '77's stashed before introduction day. They had a two-tone silver Caprice Classic Coupe with the bright red velour optional 'Custom' interior, and a Caprice Estate wagon, brown of some sort. There was actually a throng of people around these two cars. I had never seen a Chevy with the interior of the luxury level of that Caprice coupe--with the chrome(d plastic) escutcheon around the interior door handles, the no-black-plastic anywhere visible, etc. I was way-impressed. As discussed previously, I still like those cars (and most all of the GM B-bodies that came out that year). I think they did their homework that year, and had to--to get people to not worry about 'road-hugging weight' like they were saying over at Ford!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited December 2012
    http://www.edmunds.com/cadillac/ats/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-cadillac-ats-c- - reaky-steering-with-video.html

    Sounds like someone put a deck of cards in the spokes . That sound would drive me nuts.

    Edmunds claims the steering wheel has made that sound from day one. How can a $50k car leave the factory or the dealer like that?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    Sounds like a piece of plastic up just behind the wheel.

    Annoying as s***, for sure.

    Would it keep me from buying one? No. It's a new model, and probably one of the first ones out, with press lead times and such.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    That's probably how they used to do it, but these days (80s onward) a nameplate is retired because it has more negative equity than positive. It costs money to set up even a recycled nameplate, from a marketing perspective, so when you retire "Escort" for "Focus" or "Cobalt" for "Cruze" then it means the old name has such a negative connotation with it, that you need to dump it so it doesn't hurt sales. Generally, successful models keep names, like Impreza, Civic, Corolla, Fusion, and (so far) Malibu.

    When I see GM stop doing name swaps with every redesign of their cars then I'll know they're on the right track. But while they're keeping Malibu and Impala rright now, they recently dumped Aveo for Sonic and Cobalt for Cruze, so much remains to be seen.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    GM workers can expect bonuses of between $5,500 and $7,000

    Does anyone know if GM has repaid the loan from we taxpayers to bail out that bankrupt company? If not, workers should not get any bonuses. They should be thankful they have jobs courtesy of we taxpayers and the thousands of bondholders that were treated badly in the bankruptcy.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited December 2012
    Would it keep me from buying one? No

    If I liked the car enough, no it wouldn't keep me from buying it. But as obvious as that issue is, if indeed it was making that noise prior to Edmunds picking it up, you'd think someone would have noticed it.

    GM is not alone in that department. I've had similar issues with Ford where I'd swear if someone with more than a pulse worked there (dealer or factory) it would have been addressed prior to delivery.

    I had a similar type of issue when we picked up our new boat this past July. The delivering dealer gave me a check sheet with everything that was checked over at the factory, then again by the dealer prior to delivery.

    Well I didn't have the boat 15 minutes without finding several issues that should never have made it past the inspection process and flat out didn't work properly despite being listed as checked on the inspection sheet. Thankfully none kept me from using the boat through the summer, but the nearest dealer is 150 miles away and it's not a small ordeal to take the boat back. I was not a happy camper...er... boater;)

    At the end of the season, the outdrive needed thousands of dollars worth of warranty work that wouldn't have been necessary if someone would actually check what they're suppose to or do their job right the first time.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    I have never once had my dealer tell me 'no' on a warranty issue. That's for real.

    Perhaps a popular consumer magazine's ratings over the last 10-20 years could have helped guide some folks away from certain car manufacturers with poor quality and reliability. Avoiding manufacturers with models with lots of full or half black circles will mean NOT having to go back to dealers for warranty problems. Look for a manufacturer with many models having an ongoing record of full red circles on ratings.

    The consumer magazine's annual issue in April gives those black circle, red circle ratings.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    Even Toyota And Nissan discontinue and/or replace model names. Tercel, Echo, Solara, and Stanza

    The bottom end of the lineup at Toyota was never very good. The smart money bought a Corolla, and skipped the Tercel, Echo, Versa combination.

    The Solara was just a Camry with 2 doors. Camry's still sold.

    Stanza... not sure if that became the Sentra, Altima, or Maxima???

    Listing the 260Z is a bit unfair to Nissan, as they now have the 370Z which is the same model with a different engine size. Unlike GM, some manufacturers actually upgrade their engines through the years :P 350Z falls in the same category. Maybe you could argue on the 200SX.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    But many here say that CR's ratings of reliability are unreliable ;) :P

    Nevermind that at 95,000 miles it was time to replace my motor mounts in the '06 A3. Motor mounts are listed under "Engine-Minor" in CR.

    Lo and behold, there's a black dot on Engine - Minor for my car in CR.

    It's a conspiracy!
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,654
    The Stanza replaced the old mid-range Datsun 510, and itself was replaced by the Altima. IIRC, the first-year, 1993 Altimas were technically "Stanza Altimas".

    Datsun/Nissan had a habit of doing that kind of stuff with their names. IIRC, the first Stanza was technically a "510/Stanza". And I think the first Maxima was an 810/Maxima. And for some reason I'm recalling a 210/Sentra.

    My mom and stepdad had a 1991 Stanza. It was a good car until around 90,000 miles, when the transmission started to crap out, but they limped it along to around 120,000 miles when they sold it, and the tranny hadn't failed yet. By that time, the Stanza was the same basic design as the Maxima, just more upright and boxy, and with a 4-cyl engine rather than the Maxima's hot (for the time) V-6.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Oh, that's just the audible signal letting the driver know he/she is successfully turning the steering wheel.

    It's a "no-charge" option...

    They can simply take it to any dealer and have it reprogrammed to where the audible noise option is canceled.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    and with a 4-cyl engine rather than the Maxima's hot (for the time) V-6.

    I remember lusting after the new '92 Maxima with its 190 HP V6 as I was nearing my driving age at the time (but still a couple years off).
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    xrunner, on this forum we've had the CR discussion a zillion times. Some swear by it, some say it's total c***, and some (me, most of the time) think it's interesting to look at but they (CR) take themselves too seriously ('buy the '07, 09, and '10 but avoid the '08!'--stuff like that). But that's just me.

    Although on another Edmunds forum it shows Nissan having pretty high owner complaints--higher than GM and Chrysler--funny, they're the Japanese make that most often has seemed the most appealing to me. I'm not embarrassed to admit the '02 Altima turned my head, as did whatever years Maxima (early '90's I think?) had a very clean basic shape with wall-to-wall taillights and I believe was the first car I ever saw with that pretty pearlescent white paint.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    There's definitely marketing and intentional obsolescence involved. Sadly, GM marketing has been pretty awful for the past couple decades.

    Using Impala and Malibu as long lived names is kind of tenuous - both of them were dead for a long time, and of course Camaro was killed off too.

    Lately, names get killed off because brand equity becomes negative.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited December 2012
    Although on another Edmunds forum it shows Nissan having pretty high owner complaints--higher than GM and Chrysler-

    You'll dismiss complaints about GM vehicles on CR due to sample error, yet use complaints on Edmunds forums?

    I'm willing to be the cash in my wallet that GM, Ford, and Chrysler owners are less likely to utilize internet resources regarding there vehicles. Thus leading to sample error;)

    Ex.

    There are approximately 33k posts on the Honda Civic forums vs about 9k for the Cavalier, Cobalt, and Cruze, COMBINED! GMs best selling vehicles, the Silverado and Sierra have about 19k posts combined. The Ford F series only has about 9k posts.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Lately, names get killed off because brand equity becomes negative.

    Exactly
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    edited December 2012
    Best to comment on something like this after actually looking at it. See post 171 by the Edmunds host.

    Complaints to NHTSA, 2005-November 2012:

    andre1969, "Worst Cars" #153, 20 Jun 2006 7:21 am

    Note: Nothing like "Avoid the 2007 Altima, but the 2006, 2008 and 2009 are fine".

    Still, no one can convince me that a Terrain was worse than the same-year Equinox. Same hands touch them, and I don't think a different wheel opening shape or exterior door sheemetal will make reliability differences. But hey, that's me.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    Using Impala and Malibu as long lived names is kind of tenuous - both of them were dead for a long time, and of course Camaro was killed off too.

    Using your 'negative equity' argument, would the names have been brought back? Hardly.

    Even taking the missing years into account, I, personally, am hard-pressed to come up with any model names used for more model years than Impala, Malibu, and Camaro--from any manufacturer. Silverado and Suburban and Corvette have been used without any breaks.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Using your 'negative equity' argument, would the names have been brought back? Hardly.

    That shows how inept GM marketing is.

    Same with Ford. The killed the Taurus, rightfully so, then bring the name back because they believe it has brand equity. Yeah right, only if you're on a Hertz lot.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    You'll dismiss complaints about GM vehicles on CR due to sample error, yet use complaints on Edmunds forums?

    I'm willing to be the cash in my wallet that GM, Ford, and Chrysler owners are less likely to utilize internet resources regarding there vehicles. Thus leading to sample error;)


    It doesn't get less scientific than using the number of postings on a forum to determine the quality of a vehicle.

    Forums fail both the "validity and reliability" tests needed to accurately measure results.

    At best, forum postings are only indicators. Does a single poster making 100's of comments based upon a single personal experience on a single vehicle carry as much weight as a scientifically designed survey (that works both on positive and negative viewpoints)?

    Only to those looking to re-enforce the conclusions they've already made.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Using your 'negative equity' argument, would the names have been brought back? Hardly.

    That shows how inept GM marketing is.

    Same with Ford. The killed the Taurus, rightfully so, then bring the name back because they believe it has brand equity. Yeah right, only if you're on a Hertz lot.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    IIRC, the first-year, 1993 Altimas were technically "Stanza Altimas".

    Yes. That's exactly what happened. I had a friend who had one of those Stanza Altima.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    IIRC, the first-year, 1993 Altimas were technically "Stanza Altimas".

    Yes. That's exactly what happened. I had a friend who had one of those Stanza Altimas.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,654
    I think the names "Malibu" and "Impala" might have come back because nostalgia and retro were becoming popular in the mid/late 1990's. And, in GM's defense, at least the original Malibu and Impala died with some dignity.

    I have a feeling that Chevy was planning on doing the same thing that Pontiac did with their lineup in 1982, where they took what had been the LeMans and gave it a more expensive looking front-end, and tried to pass it off as a downsized Bonneville, while getting rid of the traditional B-body Bonneville (and Catalina), and hoping that full-sized car buyers would fall for it. Meanwhile, midsized buyers, they hoped, would go for the new 6000.

    I always thought the 1982 Malibu, with its eggcrate grille and quad headlights, looked an awful lot like a baby Caprice. I'm convinced that initially they were planning on getting rid of the "real" Caprice, and transferring the name to the Malibu platform, and possibly getting rid of the Impala nameplate in the process. If that had happened, I wonder if the Celebrity would have been called Malibu, instead?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    Good questions, andre (as usual). I think once the G-body Bonneville (former LeMans) didn't sell all that terrifically (and this is just from my memory, nothing to back it up), GM decided to keep the Impala/Caprice going and actually dolled up one for Pontiac to reintroduce in '83, the Parisienne.

    I believe the Celebrity probably would have been called the Malibu had the Malibu sedan and wagon not soldiered on into the '84 model year.

    I didn't like the blunt front end of the '82 Malibu..I liked the sloped-downward looks, at least at the headlights, of the '78-81's. I hated how you could see the seams where the '81-style headlights and grille used to be, on the '82!

    I like the '81 Chevys' model selection and colors. Didn't like the '82's colors as well, and some models, like the Impala coupe and Malibu coupes, went away, as did bucket seats in the Monte Carlo. Guess they were paring down to make room for the Cavalier, Celebrity, S-10 pickup, and new Camaro, or something.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited December 2012
    Note: Nothing like "Avoid the 2007 Altima, but the 2006, 2008 and 2009 are fine".

    I believe it can happen. Even though a model may not receive any obvious updates, under the skin changes do happen. Ex. The Ford Expedition is virtually unchanged from '07 to today. But the spark plug issue which plagues the '07-'08 models (same with f150s) was fixed as a running change in late '08. Same engine.

    I've worked in a parts department. The same model can appear to be the same, but when it comes time to replace parts, they don't ask for a vin or serial number for nothing.

    Plus things happen, machines break, and people are not perfect. No process is 100% repeatable and variation happens (that's why there are tolerances). So I do believe the same model of car can have different results in various years.

    Plus it can be out of the box variables that can have an effect. Sell a car to a 20 year old vs. a 40 year old and see how the reliability is effected. It makes a difference. I treat a vehicle much different than I did 20 years ago. I don't attempt neutral drops, clutch dumps, brake torquing, and hill jumping anymore. Plus I can afford to fix anything that may go wrong, when it goes wrong and I perform all recommended maintenance, which is not something I used to do.

    In your example, the '07 Altima could have been have had heavy incentives to subprime borrowers. That could be a variable that could cause reliability results to be different between years or even a difference between the 'Nox, and Terrain.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    I believe running changes happen, but it hasn't been my experience in ownership that one will be good, the next year bad, and the next year good, etc., when it's obvious that the design, mechanicals, and sourcing hasn't changed. As andre said here once, and I believe it, it's comparing the car to other makes, and that may change from year-to-year. CR doesn't present it that way however. Just my opinion.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,654
    Yeah, you're right, the '82 Bonneville wasn't a very hot seller. In 1981, I think Pontiac sold about 100,000 of the full-sized Catalina/Bonneville, and around 85,000 LeManses.

    For 1982, the Bonneville G only sold about 85K, so it only did about as well as the LeMans before it, and a bit worse than the full-sized cars it was meant to replace. That was also the Bonneville G's best year, as sales slowly tapered off, dropping to about 40,000 units for 1986. When it went to the FWD H-body, it had some new life breathed into it, though, and sold well through the rest of the 80's and most of the 90's.

    The Parisienne came out in mid-1983, so it only sold about 17,000 units that year, but I think it did around 50K for 1984, 70-80K for 1985, and 86K for 1986. Kinda curious that Pontiac would kill it off, as it was gaining in sales, but by that time Pontiac was trying to re-brand itself as a youthful, performance oriented division, and cars like the Bonneville G, RWD Grand Prix, and Parisienne really weren't fitting that mold anymore.

    I thought it was a bit curious that the Malibu coupe went away, as well. But, for years, mainstream coupe sales had been declining, instead shifting to personal luxury coupes. So, people who would have otherwise bought a Malibu or LeMans coupe were now buying a Monte Carlo or Grand Prix. Or Cutlass Supreme, which was a very strong seller in those days, and almost recession proof.

    For 1982, didn't they kill the Caprice coupe, as well? I seem to remember the Caprice AND Impala coupes going away. The Caprice coupe would return after a few years, but the Impala never did.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    edited December 2012
    Yes, actually. Those names were killed off because GM didn't have better names for the new models once the old names (Lumina, Corsica) were rendered of zero value. Those names also had enough of a gap for a younger generation to come around who have positive associations due to the American love of nostalgia. When I think "Malibu", I think of a lovely 64 Chevelle (that name should return, too) Malibu SS, not a dull fleet model 1983 car. When I think of "Impala", I think of a cool full sized 60s car, not of an honest but boring 1985 lowline full sized car.

    Mercedes SL has been around for just about as long as the Vette, there's been S-class, E-class, 3er etc equivalents for 40-50+ years, too. MB has also kept a hardtop coupe in continuous production since 1961.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    For 1982, didn't they kill the Caprice coupe, as well? I seem to remember the Caprice AND Impala coupes going away. The Caprice coupe would return after a few years, but the Impala never did.

    Yes, you are correct...I had forgotten about that. I lived in suburban Atlanta at the time my Dad was looking to replace his '80 Monte Carlo. I had heard that the Caprice coupe was resurrected for '84, but hadn't seen one at any dealer around me yet. My Dad called to say that he was looking at a new Caprice Classic coupe at our small little hometown dealer in PA. He said it had a bench seat with fold-down front armrest. I couldn't even picture that as previously there hadn't been anything like that on a Caprice coupe. When I came home at Christmastime he had bought a Monte Carlo but I saw the Caprice he had looked at. I was surprised the little hometown dealer had one when much-larger suburban dealers didn't have one.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    I think for GM, bringing the old names back wasn't a bad idea. But then again, I like heritage based marketing. and GM does have some good heritage.

    The Taurus thing was dumb (so was the "Five Hundred" name). Taurus has value to people who moved into a cave at the end of 1989 and cut off contact with civilization. Call it a Fairlane or something, and make a higher model a Galaxie.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    Benz's naming isn't exactly like domestic manufacturers, with the combo of letters and numbers. Still, it's not like they're still making 230SL's, or 450SL's (or do they?). With new iterations, they change the number portion, at least sometimes, don't they? I really don't follow Benzes very much although have driven my friend's big, big, '05 one (says '4Automatic' on the trunklid).
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    edited December 2012
    The name changes because the engines change. For the Germans, it is not name, but relative position in the lineup. There's no 300SL (the name of the first production car in 1954, racing car in 1952) being made in 2013 because that specific engine ceased production in 1963. But a 2013 SL is still an SL, it occupies the same place in the lineup and even wears the same letters. The letters usually mean something.

    That 05 boat would be an S430 or S500 4Matic. It exists here today as an S550. It existed in 1973 as a 450SEL and in 1965 as a 300SEL, and so on.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,654
    I remember lusting after the new '92 Maxima with its 190 HP V6 as I was nearing my driving age at the time (but still a couple years off).

    Back in the day I was still on a "buy American" kick when it came to cars, but I'll admit that when that new Maxima came out for 1989, I liked it. A lot! I was 18 at the time, so there was no way I could ever afford one. I still remember some of them had a sticker in the rear door quarter window that said "4DSC", short for "4 Door Sports Car"!

    It was one of the first of the rounded off aerodynamic styles that I really liked.

    I also liked the 2002 Altima when it first came out, enough that I briefly considered trading my 2000 Intrepid in on one. Fortunately (or not), I was seriously upside-down on the Trep at the time. It had about 58,000 miles on it, and I owed about $11,300. Initially they were going to give me $6500 in trade and let me roll over the negative equity.

    Thankfully I didn't go for it, as that would have resulted in a car payment of about $470 per month!

    I guess though, if I had done that, I might still be driving that Altima. My Intrepid got totaled in a hit-and-run with about 150,000 miles on it, at 10 years of age. But if I had traded it, the victim instead would have been an 8 year old Altima with about 92,000 miles. It might have still had enough book value to not get totaled out like the Intrepid did, so it might have gotten repaired instead, so I never would have bought my Park Ave.

    The ~32K miles I've put on the Park Ave would instead have gone on this hypothetical Altima, so it would be up to around 124-125K miles by now.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited December 2012
    Back in the day I was still on a "buy American" kick when it came to cars, but I'll admit that when that new Maxima came out for 1989, I liked it. A lot! I was 18 at the time, so there was no way I could ever afford one. I still remember some of them had a sticker in the rear door quarter window that said "4DSC", short for "4 Door Sports Car"!

    You're not much older than I. A good looking mom that lived down the road from me while I was in HS had a black '89 Maxima SE with a manual trans. I lusted over both;)

    Those Maximas were great cars back then. Nothing like it with the domestics until Ford ponied up the Taurus SHO. Which was cool in it's own way, but certainly not nearly as good of a car overall. Well I know which car would likely last much longer anyway.

    Dodge had the Spirit Turbo, while interesting, I don't think they were that good either.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    That 05 boat would be an S430 or S500 4Matic. It exists here today as an S550. It existed in 1973 as a 450SEL and in 1965 as a 300SEL, and so on.

    OK, that's not exactly keeping a model name the same. ;)
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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    edited December 2012
    But it is still pretty much the same. MB changed the letter/number position on all models in 1994, for unknown reasons. So see a S550 as a 550SEL, in old terms. And the letters "SL" have been around for ~60 years, which is worth something ;)
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