GM News, New Models and Market Share

ateixeira · January 2013

Slogans need music, too.

robr2 · January 2013

The overall JD Power business model is "suspect" simply because of the way it's financed. Reviews can be critical, just not too critical.

JD Power doesn't do reviews. They gather data from consumers and then sell it to the manufacturers. BTW, they do so in at least a dozen different industries.

You can't buy a prize from JD Power. What you can buy is the data that shows you do well and what you do poorly.

busiris · January 2013

Risky? I agree. Anything investment wise in electric auto transportation falls in that category.

Still, its a loan, not a grant nor an equity investment, so there's (at least, in theory) an added level of protection for the taxpayer.

IMO, the path taken by the Volt holds the most promise, as you aren't left stranded along the side of the road after your battery dies half way up a long grade...

busiris · January 2013

Call it what you like.

From a purely scientific basis, the methodology fails on multiple levels.

Then again, its meant to be used as, and IS used as, a marketing tool by the manufacturers.

imidazol97 · January 2013

>You do understand the difference between a "loan" and a "cash trade for stock" transaction

I'm torn between answering that simple-minded comment with a "No, I'm too darned dumb" or a "Yup, you can lose money on both." :P

It would be like loaning money to Solyndra, right?

busiris · January 2013

So, you are willing to compare a financially successful company like Nissan with an unproven startup like Solyndra.

I wouldn't.

http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/releases/nissan-begins-u-s-assembly-of-20- - 13-leaf-electric-vehicle-and-batteries

Based upon your previous comments here, I suspect the real issue for you isn't the loan or its amount. It's who got it. Had the recipient been GM you probably wouldn't have posted the comment at all.

ateixeira · January 2013

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/01/10/chevy-filling-its-naias-stand-with-5-models-n- ot-sold-in-us/

That's my brother's new ride, basically a compact SUV with a 3 row option.

Buick Encore is a version of the Trax, so we're sort of getting that one.

Watch, I'll get no response. People would rather argue about red and black dots, that thread gets 100 responses.

busiris · January 2013

Which one did he get?

The pictures labels don't quite match. The picture with the Spin moniker on the tag is labeled a Chevrolet Sail above the thumbnail.

tlong · January 2013

So, you are willing to compare a financially successful company like Nissan with an unproven startup like Solyndra.

And there really is a difference between investing in a risky startup in the hopes of producing/jumpstarting a new industry capability (Solyndra) versus loaning or giving money to an old-technology company that has miserably failed to compete successfully with it's peers.

tlong · January 2013

First the Sail, then the Spin. What next, the Descend? :P

(Images of aircraft aerobatics in my head)

ateixeira · January 2013

He bought a Chevy Spin.

It replaced a Toyota Corolla. The RAV4 is WAAAAAAY too expensive in Brazil, I mean over $50 grand USD expensive.

The Spin actually replaced the Meriva and Zafira in their lineup, so out with the vans, in with the crossovers.

I believe it's selling well.

busiris · January 2013

And there really is a difference between investing in a risky startup in the hopes of producing/jumpstarting a new industry capability (Solyndra) versus loaning or giving money to an old-technology company that has miserably failed to compete successfully with it's peers.

Many economists argue, and do it quite successfully, that investing in new technologies that are "iffy" is a primary function of government, simply due to the fact that there is little interest or ability in the private investment arena.

The moon landing and space program are excellent examples where government invested in "iffy" technologies that paid off handsomely, and which private investment didn't have the interest or capability to provide the required amounts needed to get the job done.

busiris · January 2013

From what I see in the pictures, the Spin looks like a nice ride. Of course, I'm not very familiar with vehicle availability in Brazil, so I can't say much about its competition.

I hope it holds up well for him. Give us an occasional update if you would, like you've done on the Chrysler 200 Convertible that one of your family members purchased...

ateixeira · January 2013

Vehicles are taxed heavily there, so even the Spin is probably a $30k vehicle there.

The Sandero (sold as a Renault) sells well there, so this challenges that class leader.

Will ping them and see how they're liking it, since they've had it for a couple of months now. They pre-ordered and got one of the very first ones.

ateixeira · January 2013

Chrysler 200 Convertible

I did the Navi update for my pops, since he's out of the country.

Took a long time to update both the software and the maps (2 DVDs came for free from Chrysler). Next time he'll have to pay (Chrysler, not me, LOL), but it costs less then I've seen from other manufacturers.

Overall I'd say kudos to Chrysler for keeping the interface simple, something Ford could probably learn from, maybe Cadillac (Cue) as well given the critics.

It uses Garmin Navi so it's very intuitive. One complaint - it still doesn't show the whole MD ICC, which was finished last year. That sucks for him because he lives RIGHT off the ICC. That's the map supplier's fault, though, not Chrysler's.

Electrical gremlins seem to be resolved, knock on wood.

Edit: I'm not the only one who thinks highly of the Chrysler/Garmin Navi:

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/01/09/chrysler-uconnect-wins-aol-autos-tech-of-the-- year/

busiris · January 2013

Quick question... Does the Spin run on gasohol or pure ethanol? Don't many cars in Brazil run on ethanol alone (I'm showing my ignorance here...)?

busiris · January 2013

From what I've seen, almost all in-car NAV systems fall short in capability and current-ness of the cheaper portable Garmin/Tom Tom units one can buy for a couple hundred bucks.

It's a common complaint across makes.

ateixeira · January 2013

Chevy Spin 1st impressions (translated, bear with me).

My sister-in-law likes it a lot.

Has 1700km on it, or just over 1k miles. so far.

She averages 6.2 km/liter, or just under 15mpg in very *VERY* heavy Recife, Brazil traffic. Dealer says it should improve with break in, which is likely.

Runs well but the 1.8l engine is a bit taxed for the payload it carries, so when you hit the gas you really have to floor it.

She thinks a 2.0 to 2.2l engine would be ideal.

But no regrets, she'd buy the same car again.

She's used the 3rd row on several occasions. 2 kids but I'm sure they car pool.

***

Makes me wonder if auto start/stop should not be developed for that car given you idle so much in that environment.

Before any one says they'd drive a Suburban and get the same MPG remember you also have to park your car in tight urban spaces.

ateixeira · January 2013

Does the Spin run on gasohol or pure ethanol?

Either, it's a Flex model.

She says she runs only gas, because you can imagine how little range she'd have with Ethanol, given you travel less on each tankful. Ethanol is cheaper but you give up range, so it's a wash in terms of cost.

fintail · January 2013

That seems too thirsty. Maybe the mileage was interpreted wrong? Metric places usually use volume per 100km. 6.2l /100km is around 30mpg I think...hmmm maybe that's too high.

andre1969 · January 2013

Before any one says they'd drive a Suburban and get the same MPG remember you also have to park your car in tight urban spaces.

Also, a Suburban might not get get 15 mpg if forced to endure the same type of driving situations as your sister-in-law's car.

FWIW, when I was in Aruba, I had a Kia Opirus (Amanti) for a rental, and I think I averaged about 14-15 mpg. I think they're rated 17/24 by EPA standards. That sounds dismal, but we did a lot of stop and go driving, probably never got about 55 mph, and had the a/c going all the time.

Last year, my rental was something called a Kia Carens, and I don't know if that would directly correlate to anything here in the US. It sort of made me think of those old tall Honda Civic wagons, but a little bigger. I'm sure there was some US variant, but I can't recall now. Maybe a Hyundai Elantra Touring or something like that? Anyway, whatever it was, it only got about 16-17 mpg, as I recall.

ateixeira · January 2013

She wrote "6,2 km por litro de gasolina" but it could be that she's reading the on board computer incorrectly.

I doubt she's see 30mpg in that urban grid lock traffic, though.

tlong · January 2013

From what I've seen, almost all in-car NAV systems fall short in capability and current-ness of the cheaper portable Garmin/Tom Tom units one can buy for a couple hundred bucks.

There's no doubt that in-car systems are expensive and don't continue to evolve technologically.

I have both situations - Garmin on-dash in one car, plus in-car on my '05 Acura TL. The advantage to the in-car (6 years old BTW) is that I talk to it with a steering wheel button and can request nearest restaurant, gas, ATM, etc; it automatically sets the clock time in the car based upon the GPS satellites; the screen is larger (unless you get an iPad or equivalent as your portable GPS, there are no wires hanging around to make a general mess of things; and it's not nearly as likely to be stolen.

ateixeira · January 2013

a/c going all the time

It's peak summer heat there so I'm sure that's the case. She's a lawyer so she drives in to town a lot, kids to school, short errands, etc. YMMV but she likely has the worst commute to get decent MPGs.

Kia Carens was called the Rondo here. US is allergic to small minivans.

bpizzuti · January 2013

Kia Carens was called the Rondo here. US is allergic to small minivans.

Is that why Mazda still sells the Mazda5 and Ford brought over the C-Max?

The Rondo's big problem was that it didn't have sliding doors. That's actually a pretty big deal for minivan buyers.

busiris · January 2013

There's no doubt that in-car systems are expensive and don't continue to evolve technologically.

Agreed. Sometimes it boils down to whether or not you want the other features/options that go along with the factory NAV badly enough to spend the $$$ on the NAV system.

Foe example, if you want a BMW with iDrive, you are forced to get the NAV system. I opted to spend the extra money, even though I very rarely use the NAV functions themselves.

You do make an excellent point about theft, though. Far more plug-and-play NAV systems get stolen than in-dash ones, and there aren't any extra wires strewn all about the car's interior.

busiris · January 2013

Thanks for the response. I suspected it was that way, but I didn't know for sure.

tlong · January 2013

Is that why Mazda still sells the Mazda5 and Ford brought over the C-Max?

I don't think Ford brought over the sliding door version, which we had been hoping they would.

tlong · January 2013

You do make an excellent point about theft, though. Far more plug-and-play NAV systems get stolen than in-dash ones, and there aren't any extra wires strewn all about the car's interior.

I really do like my factory Acura nav. The system integration with voice and audio is awesome. My nav screen also shows the audio settings and balance/face/subwoofer/etc. I've owned this car during the years where my teens were visiting a lot of friends and I could easily find unknown addresses. I also delayed getting a smartphone for years partly because I had the nav. I bought the car new and am at 6 years and 130K miles, so amortized over a long life (I keep my cars a long time) it wasn't TOO expensive.

ateixeira · January 2013

Have you seen sales figures for the Mazda5 and C-Max?

Mazda sold 14,640 units, big minivans sell over 100k/year.

C-Max is new but not exactly flying off the shelves, either.

bpizzuti · January 2013

Mazda isn't a big manufacturer. Everyone seems to expect Mazda to do the same volume as manufacturers 10 times their size, and consider it a failure if they don't. Hey, the Corvette sells fewer units than the Cruze, guess the 'Vette is a failure too.

I don't expect GM to make one of these, because they think the Equinox is "small."

busiris · January 2013

I think it's the Chevrolet Spark that someone posted a link to showing a video how it basically has the screen interface, but uses the "smarts" from your connected smartphone to provide music, NAV functions, etc.

Perhaps that's the wave of the future. Seems like it would eliminate a lot of compatibility issues between car models and head unit revisions/ECO's, etc. by just creating a standardized Bluetooth interface and having the car screen act more like a dumb monitor and touch-interface, letting the owner take the NAV device with him after leaving the car from a parking garage, etc.

From a service perspective, it sure seems that it would make it much less of a problem for dealers. The manufacturer could certify phones (software revisions, too) that were compatible, and if there's a problem, and the phone/software revision isn't on the certified list... Sorry...

michaellno · January 2013

I don't expect GM to make one of these, because they think the Equinox is "small."

I believe the upcoming Buick Encore is a variation of those small CUV's. Will use the 1.4T that you find in the Cruze and Sonic.

ateixeira · January 2013

Even the MPV sold in higher volumes.

ateixeira · January 2013

That was me, and for once someone recognizes my contribution to this thread. :shades:

ateixeira · January 2013

Encore is based on the Chevy Trax, correct.

I think the Spin is a LWB Trax, basically.

xrunner2 · January 2013

Latest issue of CR (Feb) shows Honda Accord with top rating in the segment "Entry Level Family Sedans". The Malibu was fourth behind Honda (1), Hyundai Sonata and Toyota Camry.

CR did not like the poor leg room in the back seat area of the Malibu. They also thought the Malibu was priced too high which was $26,030 vs the Accord at $23,270. The Accord got 30 mpg overall while the Malibu got only 26 mpg.

In the High End Family Sedan category, the Accord came in third while the Malibu was way down at number 10 behind 2 Toyotas, Honda, Hyundai, Subaru, Nissan, Kia and 2 VWs.

Neither of the Malibus got a "Recommended" check mark.

bpizzuti · January 2013

They also thought the Malibu was priced too high which was $26,030 vs the Accord at $23,270. The Accord got 30 mpg overall while the Malibu got only 26 mpg.

Wasn't that intentional, so that when the Malibu actually goes out the door for $16,030 it seems like a good deal?

uplanderguy · January 2013

I don't remember seeing a Malibu in the "High End Family Sedan" list, only the lower-priced list which showed it ahead in score, of the Subaru, Altima, Optima, and Passat.

If you read the article completely, the only thing that kept them from recommending the Malibu, is that they had zero reliability history since it is a completely-new car, even engine.

What top-line Malibu did they have in the "High End" category, as I apparently missed that car in that box completely...or are you taking a car that wasn't in that category and comparing to cars that CR put in that category?

Now I remember, they had the 'Eco' in the higher-end category. Shocker there! LOL

No comment on all the well-loved machines which scored lower than the Malibu?

uplanderguy · January 2013

Yeah, what customer would want a good deal?

I don't know, but I think the Malibu could actually be bought cheaper than even cars it outshone, points-wise, in the CR comparo.

Its results are hardly 'lame' as one poster had branded it here...again, I can say with a pretty high comfort level that that particular poster hadn't been within three feet of one. Sadly, that's the M.O. here.

imidazol97 · January 2013

Lots of "you's" in that answer. Getting personal?
>you are willing
>your previous comments here
>real issue for you
>been GM you probably

If you read my post, it was clear that it's the high price per job and the fact that while a couple people here perpetually kvetch about GM's have been helped by the government, as have many, many foreign companies, and now one more large foreign company, they ignore all the past help and protection of some foreign companies by their governments.

>Had the recipient been GM you probably wouldn't have posted the comment at all.

I'd recommend not trying to guess what I would do and posting in a personal way.

tlong · January 2013

Even the MPV sold in higher volumes.

I have never seen an ad for the Mazda 5. Perhaps they'd sell more if they promoted it.

It was my understanding that it's mainly a vehicle for other markets and they only have a little excess capacity, so they brought it to the states and apparently are just getting a bit more profit as they can without spending any advertising dollars.

tlong · January 2013

In the High End Family Sedan category, the Accord came in third while the Malibu was way down at number 10 behind 2 Toyotas, Honda, Hyundai, Subaru, Nissan, Kia and 2 VWs.

There goes that biased CR again!

:P

busiris · January 2013

Lol...

You're the one that seems to always take comments personally.

And, one would have to be pretty much out of it to not know what you were implying in your comments.

You can decide to take it personally, but my comments were nothing more than an observation, based upon prior comments you have made here.

Whatever, dude...

uplanderguy · January 2013

There goes that biased CR again!

Read my post about the couple of relevant things that xrunner2 left out about the article. He's been taking lessons from circlew! LOL

uplanderguy · January 2013

If OnStar had been invented by anyone other than GM, it would be heralded here as a great invention, but in today's local paper it showed a late-model Chrysler Sebring on its roof in a creekbed. The driver said she hit 'black ice' and went off the road near a bridge. She waited an hour before a passerby stopped and took her for medical attention. She had hypothermia, supposedly, but further info wasn't available. Here's a classic case where OnStar would've been a big help. I don't have it on my Cobalt (I'm too cheap), but you can be sure my wife's Malibu has it.

uplanderguy · January 2013

Just changing the title of the post since xrunner2 left this very pertinent information out of his post.

uplanderguy · January 2013

Just changing the title of the post since xrunner2 left this very pertinent information out of his post.

Also left out that the Sonata Hybrid wasn't recommended because of its much-worse-than-average reliability record.

uplanderguy · January 2013

Someone posted here a while back that they hated Chevy's gold bowtie emblem.

I rather like it, and it has a 100-year-heritage.

Today at Sheetz (convenience store), I was reminded how I, personally, think the Honda "H" emblem looks like a three-year old designed it. Obviously one doesn't not buy a car for this reason, but I hate the looks of that emblem. Conversely, the Hyundai "H" is rather stylish, I think.

IMHO, the worst-looking emblem is Subaru's. Looks like something one could buy in the two-for-a-dollar store. It's big, too.

I'm not a Ford guy, but I like Ford's blue oval. Long heritage, and the script is a reproduction of old Henry's signature.

circlew · January 2013

This holds more weight afaic!

Last Place - Chevy Malibu

Go VW!! :P

Regards,
OW

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