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Comments

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,863
    Heck, my Explorer has that as well. One can reconfigure the information provided in the left and right hand panes of the dash.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 11,299
    The packaging of the Omni/Horizon was definitely influenced by the Rabbit--that was pretty apparent upon introduction. It could be had with more "Americanized" trim in and out, of course, though.

    This is the last thing that andres3 needs to hear, but a friend of a friend was a Mopar dealer technician and said they got more than one of those cars in with both Horizon and Omni nameplates. They called the cars "Plodge Homnis"!
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,729
    Back in the late 80's a neighbor friend of mine's dad bought a late 80's Omni. It seemed decent for a compact at the time, but I know they had a ton of problems with it. From what I remember that was the last domestic car they owned for a long time.

    Also had a neighbor across the street from us that had a black Omni GLH turbo. That was a neat car.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,229
    My dad had a Horizon - it was generally reliable, and he liked it a lot. He would drive it hard - I remember seeing the speedometer at the limit, and it was also good in snow.

    My brother had a Neon coupe - he hated it, it eventually got t-boned by a speeding 80s Fleetwood, he was thrilled to be out from under it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Neat, but I'll take the tach selection.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,729
    edited January 2013
    My brother had a Neon coupe

    I actually liked my Neon coupe overall. It had the 150hp 2.0 DOHC 4 banger with 5 speed manual. It was quick for the time and reliable enough while I had it. The main thing I didn't like about it was how loud it was. At 80 it would turn 4k rpm and each revolution made itself known. It certainly wasn't a Honda.

    My friend's parents kept the Omni (it could have been a Horizon too, can't remember exactly) a while. Once the initial problems were taken care of, I think it was okay. IIRC they were carb related. I think it was an 87 or 88. But I do remember it was one of the model years that was released about a year early.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,229
    edited January 2013
    My brother's was an "Expresso" slushbox model that my mom dumbly cosigned for when he was 18. I drove it for a short jaunt once - I remember the coarseness, and somehow the interior plastics seemed to be grained in a way that absorbed dirt. I don't think he had any mechanical failures, but maybe he too tired of the noise, and the payments.

    My dad's Horizon was an older one, maybe closer to a 1980 model. I don't remember it ever failing, but I was a little kid when he had it. Replaced with an S-10 Blazer that was more troublesome.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 11,299
    edited January 2013
    ...concerning quality....that was the one car that probably did the most to erase twenty-five years of goodwill the Beetle had built for VW. That's no joke.

    A coworker of mine bought a new '81 Scirocco. I remember it cost the same as my new Monte Carlo. Obviously, two different types of cars, but I remember, besides the no rear legroom (which I shouldn't expect in a car like that), that the instrument panel waved at you when you let up on the clutch.

    I wouldn't classify the Corvair as a 'failure' as xrunner did...it was widely referred to all over the place as "Poor Man's Porsche". Seriously. Read some reviews of the Corsa models. I've also read a reviewer that said it was what small cars of the '70's should have been but weren't.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 11,299
    Well obviously, but I think you know who employs more white-collar people of all levels, more assembly-line workers, and more suppliers in the U.S. And more production is coming to the U.S.--a good thing.

    Yeah, I'm so glad Ford is around.


    It's exhausting having to correct you so often. ;)
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,560
    I wouldn't classify the Corvair as a 'failure' as xrunner did...

    I'd call it "flawed", but not a failure. If it was a failure, GM would have dropped it after a few years. But, it held out for ten model years, which is pretty incredible considering it had to share the market with the Chevy II starting in 1962, and the market got further segmented when the Camaro came out for '67.

    If it wasn't for the Corvair, there very well could have been no Mustang, Barracuda, or Camaro/Firebird. It was the Corvair that uncovered the market for an inexpensive domestic compact, and thus served as some inspiration for the Mustang.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    edited January 2013
    I would classify the Corvair as a failure. It's arguably unjustified thanks to Ralph Nader, but the car did have some issues (the swing axle didn't help), and GM completely abandoned flat engines.

    The second gen was better, but by then, between Nader, the swing-axle reputation, and GM's habit of self-competition (the Camaro was cannibalizing Corvair sales) the game was up.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 11,299
    I've read that some more 'esteemed' brands with swing axles were even worse than the first Corvairs in that same issue. I much-prefer the '65 and later in every way, when that wasn't an issue, anyway.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    I like the styling of the second-gen and I like flat engines, primarily because they lower center-of-gravity, which leads to improved handling (without over-stiffening the suspension). But unless you can get serious economies of scale flat engines are a little expensive to make.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,560
    I've heard that as long as you kept the tire pressure in check, early Corvairs were just fine. Only problem is, recommended tire pressure was something off-beat, like 15 psi in the front, and 26 in the rear. People tend to round off, so most owners probably just inflated all four to 25 or 30 psi and called it a day.

    This was long before my time, but I heard that one of my neighbors had an early Corvair, and wiped out in the rain. I don't think the end result was anything serious, but she got rid of it right after that. Of course, being in the rain, and adding in possible driver error and whatever other circumstances there were, she might have wiped out anyway, regardless of what she was driving.

    The only car I can remember her having was a white 1978 or so Regal, that she had right up until she passed away in 1996 or 1997.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,229
    I had thought Rabbit quality was hit and miss - some were horrors (early cars esp), others had little issue. Kind of a VW theme that persists almost to this day.

    My paternal grandfather had several Corvairs, didn't turn him off Chevy as he owned several more of the brand, including his last new car.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 11,299
    Honestly, I never knew anyone who owned a Rabbit, just heard/read a lot of stuff. I'm sure it was the early ones, and also the ones made in Westmoreland County, PA, about 100 miles south of where I lived at the time.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,729
    edited January 2013
    had thought Rabbit quality was hit and miss - some were horrors (early cars esp), others had little issue. Kind of a VW theme that persists almost to this day.

    My great uncle kept an early 80's diesel rabbit at his winter home in Sarasota. He still had it down there when he passed away in the late 90's. He and my aunt would drive down there in his Town Car then use the Rabbit as a runabout and he would lend it to ever would visit (assuming they could drive a stick). Last I was it in the mid '90's it had 150k miles or so and ran great. But yeah, in general VW's seem hit or miss.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 11,299
    I have heard the same Honda ad several times yesterday and today.

    It's poking fun, kind of, about Hyundai's long warranty. The salesman keeps saying "Our warranty is long, long, long!". The customer says, "Will it fix faulty logic?". Goofing on a long warranty is the entire ad.

    I didn't like it at all. IMHO, it's arrogant. Anybody who's considering a new Honda who hasn't had one before, won't have to look here real hard to find reasons that a long warranty is a good thing. ;)
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,229
    When I was a little kid, a friend of the family had a diesel Rabbit - I remember it for the emblem, and the noise. Apparently it was a reliable vehicle.

    I have heard the very early Rabbits rust with a vengeance, and are unreliable.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,729
    edited January 2013
    It's poking fun, kind of, about Hyundai's long warranty. The salesman keeps saying "Our warranty is long, long, long!". The customer says, "Will it fix faulty logic?". Goofing on a long warranty is the entire ad.

    That's funny! GM has made fun of Ford's "man step" and Honda by showing lawn mowers. BTW, Honda makes far superior lawn mowers than GM;)

    We've been down this warranty road before. If I was shopping for a new or used vehicle whether an Accord or any car with a shorter warranty than GM or Hyundai, but I wanted a better warranty. I'd simply buy the manufacturers extended warranty which would be far more comprehensive than what's provided by standard powertrain warranty. Problem solved.

    I guarantee every GM dealer still offers GM extended warranty for coverage above and beyond the standard 3/36 bumper to bumper and 100k powertrain warranty.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306
    When I was in high school, a friend's older brother had a Rabbit. We were riding in the car and suddenly heard this huge BANG and the lower left hand corner of the car dropped dramatically. The shock tower broke free and punched through the body. My friend's older brother was cursing up a storm that would make Tony Soprano blush.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 11,299
    I guarantee every GM dealer still offers GM extended warranty for coverage above and beyond the standard 3/36 bumper to bumper and 100k powertrain warranty.

    Oh they definitely do, and frequently try to sell me one, at new car time and afterwards. ;)

    Thirteen cars and 32 years later, I still don't regret never buying one.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,729
    Oh they definitely do, and frequently try to sell me one, at new car time and afterwards. ;)

    IMO, if the powertrain warranty was so great, they wouldn't need to offer more coverage.

    Here's my perspective. If Ford offered the same warranty as GM, I still would have had the same out of pocket costs with my Expedition. The problems I had between 59-90k miles wouldn't have been covered by GM either. Unless GM would have offered "goodwill". Which is always possible, but not something I've ever experienced with Ford or GM.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,560
    Thirteen cars and 32 years later, I still don't regret never buying one.

    I bought an extended warranty on my 2000 Intrepid, a $1205 expense that I never needed to use, once. Its factory warranty at the time was 3/36K bumper to bumper, and after that you were on your own, although I guess emissions were covered for 10/100K, and body rustthrough was probably 5/100K.

    Anyway, this warranty covered the bumper-to-bumper for 5 years/100K miles, with a $200 deductible. It felt good to have, at first, because I blew through the 3/36K part of it in about 13 months. But after that, nothing really broke on the car that was covered by the warranty, or worth it. The thermostat housing, around 51,000 miles, was $210, but I just had my mechanic do that, as he was doing some maintenance stuff on the car, anyway. Also around that timeframe, the door seals started shrinking up, but those weren't covered, and were only about $50 apiece anyway, and could easily be replaced myself. Around 86,000 miles the oil pressure light started coming on, but that was covered under a TSB.

    My driving slowed down in later years, so while the first 36K miles went by in 13 months, I remember it hit 100K on Christmas Eve, 2004, about 5 years, 1 1/2 months after I bought the car.

    They tried to push an extended warranty on me when I bought my Ram, but I know it's not going to get driven enough to make one worth it. I think its powertrain is 5/60K, and bumper to bumper is 3/36K. All the extended warranty packages only pushed it out to 5/100K. At the rate I've been driving, this truck will be lucky to see 30K miles in five years. I've had it almost 4 months, and it's only gone about 1300 miles.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,729
    Thirteen cars and 32 years later, I still don't regret never buying one.

    I'm willing to be you'd still buy a GM car if they didn't offer a warranty at all. Why didn't you buy a Toyota or Nissan back when the offered 5/60k powertrain warranty long before GM or Ford went beyond 36k.

    Likely because you bought the vehicle you wanted despite the warranty deficiency. That's where I'm coming from on the issue.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 11,299
    I was pretty close, or at 60K, when my Cobalt needed a thermostat. It was covered, along with all new coolant (one thing I won't have to do but was thinking about already). Ford would have covered it, but just barely.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,696
    >Honda makes far superior lawn mowers than GM

    What lawnmowers does GM make?

    As for Honda mowers, as the guy that owns one. Fellow across the road had Toros for decades and then decided on a Honda. He buys used Acuras for his vehicles Third season, the lawn guy was using the lawn guy's Toro. The Honda wouldn't work. Same thing happened again this season. I hope neighbor bought an extended warranty with his Honda. Hee, heee. :P

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,696
    > GM dealer still offers GM extended warranty for coverage above and beyond the standard 3/36 bumper to bumper and 100k powertrain warranty.

    It's this kind of misinformation that just keeps on being perpetuated about GM. Old habits are hard to break. The Buick I looked at has 4 yr/ 50,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,729
    Ok. I should have said Chevy. I believe Lincoln also offers 4/50 bumper to bumper. But that still wouldn't get me to buy a Navigator over an Expedition.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,729
    I was joking about the lawn mower.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,729
    I've spent a decent amount of money on widow regulators and hvac controls on my expedition and suburban that aren't covered under a powertrain warranty and failed long before 100k miles.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,696
    >I was joking about the lawn mower.

    I wasn't. He really has had trouble with his Honda mower. Another neighbor who mows the lawn for the Honda owner has to use his 22-25 year-old Toro to mow the lawn.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,729
    My dad has a honda mower and snow blower and my fil has a toro. All have had starting issues due to lack of treating fuel. I had to have the carb rebuilt on my Briggs and stratton powered lawn tractor at two years old. The shop told me ethanol is hell on carburetors if allowed to sit. I installed a fuel cut off and I run the fuel out of the carb and I've not had a problem since.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 11,299
    You need to roll up and down your own windows, like I do in my Cobalt. ;)
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,729
    Lol. Yeah, my daughters have only seen crank windows are a few times and they had to ask what the crank was for.

    Are crank window available in a cruse?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 11,299
    I don't think they are available in even the cheapest Cruze, although I'm not sure.

    My daughter (high school sophomore) had a friend who climbed in the back seat last summer and said, "Cool! Crank windows!".

    I remember when power windows in anything but a Lincoln or Caddy was like, "la dee freakin' da!".
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,729
    edited January 2013
    Me too. My grandpa had power windows in a late 60's or early 70's Bonneville coupe he had, but I don't really remember it. His next car with power window was in his 87 caprice. The first car my dad had with power windows was a 92 crown Vic.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 11,299
    My Dad was a guy who'd say, "Ahh, just something else to break" so he'd never have power windows. He didn't have an automatic transmission until August 1974, and never had A/C until December 1983!

    I think I've become my Dad...sort of!
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 11,028
    Yes, power windows seem expensive to maintain and repair, and really don't add much function. I'd take the discount if offered for crank windows; unfortunately, most cars today don't offer that.

    As to extended warranties, if I felt I was buying something that would need the use of an extended warranty, I'd probably buy something else.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,560
    My Dad was a guy who'd say, "Ahh, just something else to break" so he'd never have power windows.

    My Granddad was the same way, although the last two vehicles they bought, an '85 LeSabre and '85 Silverado, both had power windows. The LeSabre never had a failure in the 18 years and 157,000 miles we had it.

    However, I do remember the Silverado's driver door motor failed back around 1991, when I was in college. It failed again...I forget when, exactly, but I finally broke down and had it repaired in late 2008. I think I put it off for about a year, maybe a bit longer. And, in late 2011, it failed again. However, this time, the motor still runs, but something came loose. Dunno if I'm going to bother getting it fixed, because it gets driven so rarely these days.

    My other grandparents, on my Dad's side of the family, first got power windows in 1985 as well, on their LTD. Their '89 and '94 Tauruses also had power. Never any failures, but they also never really kept their cars for very long.

    My first power window car was a 1969 Bonneville 4-door hardtop I bought from my cousin for $400 in 1992. Its windows all worked, although the car itself usually didn't. :blush:

    I used to not care so much about power windows versus crank, but now I've gotten so spoiled by them, I've thought about seeing how much it would cost to get my '67 Catalina convertible retrofitted with them. It might not be *that* bad, as I'm sure they put the window switches right where the crank handle would normally be.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,229
    Thinking back about power windows - T-Bird had them of course, Tempo actually had them, Blazer had them, Taurus had them, Horizon didn't - and strangely enough, Ciera didn't - and it was otherwise well equipped (plush interior, wire wheel covers, etc).

    Power windows weren't even possible on a non-grosser MB until around 1970, I think.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306
    edited January 2013
    Seems like my Dad. He didn't have a car with power windows or an AM/FM radio until he bought his new Ford Thunderbird in 1981.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,277
    No crank windows.

    No Cruise Control available on the Snuze at any pricepoint. Dealer will install if aftermarket if you want it...
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 11,299
    edited January 2013
    I'll buy the crank windows, but I doubt the cruise control. I'll check it out myself. My guess is you're not seeing it because it's standard on all but the LS model.

    Did you see how far off-the-chart (the wrong way) the Focus is for problems, if you follow CR? Like 100% off average.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 11,299
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,277
    Then they've added it on. 2011 you couldn't...
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 11,299
    edited January 2013
    I don't believe that either.

    And, here's the proof:

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120415182802AAgjuAW
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,277
    YAHOO? lol.

    My proof came straight from a dealer in 2011. No CC available, but would add it on for $525.00... Even said it with a straight face when he told me

    "There is no Standard Cruise Control available in the Chevy Cruze..."

    Maybe they added it on when they redesigned the steering wheels so they wouldn't fall off...
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 11,299
    edited January 2013
    You clearly didn't open the link. It was the 2011 Cruze ordering guide, from Chevrolet.

    Your dealer was a putz--clearly a possibility.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,277
    Those yahoo boards are blocked here at work, so it's not that I don't believe you but I personally never use them as a valid source...

    I've done a bit of searching and all I came up with was no Cruise available on "Manual transmission" models. But nothing really directly related, just some Op pieces...
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