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I think that was Detroit's attitude until around 2007.
The "sporty" part of Corvair was not part of the first handful of years of Corvair. These early Corvairs were definitely not sporty, but mundane. Sporty came some years later with introduction of convertibles. The early cars offered were a 4-door sedan, 2-door sedan and station wagon.
The rear-engine design and early offerings of Corvair more closely resemble the VW bug layout. Defininitely not a sporty type car.
In 1961, Ford had the Mustang I mid-engine prototype built and had it operational in October, 1962 at the U.S. Grand Prix. It was a roadster and was driven there in a test, not a race, by U.S. race driver Dan Gurney.
The Ford Mustang I being a roadster and two seater was completely different in character to the Corvair. It was sporty, much different in character from the Corvair sedans and station wagions. Corvair introduced convertibles and "sporty" in later years.
Ford decided to not approve the two-seater mid-engine roadster for production in favor of 4-seating and traditional front engine, rear drive layout and had the front engine rear drive "sporty" long hood, short deck car ready for sale in Spring, 1964.
Ford was successful with their original car layout. Mustang still around after 50 years. Corvair, a flop, long dead.
Of course, the real problem was that they diverted precious development dollars from more critical GM vehicles at a time when cash was rapidly becoming scarce.
Malibus and Impalas aren't exciting, but those are the type of vehicles that help pay the bills for successful car companies, not two-seat sports cars. GM needed to make the Malibu and Impala its priority, and, unfortunately, it did not do this.
You have made exactly my point and why I've been harping on the new Malibu.
GM spent inordinate amounts of money on light, two-mode, and Volt-style hybrids (yes, that's THREE different kinds), and on two seater cars for Saturn and Pontiac, and yet they don't seem to put the attention into the HEART OF THE AUTO MARKET. I don't understand why with >$50 billion in bailout money they can't put out a family sedan that it at least near the top with the leaders in the segment.
You are being way too soft. For the world's largest automaker (give or take one) and the subject of a bailout, midpack at best is not good enough. Were you happy getting C's in school? There were probably a lot of kids getting D's and F's, so is a C student great?
The Corvair is in distinguished company of the 50 worst ever cars some of which are: Yugo, East German Trabant, Ford Pinto, AMC Gremlin, Chevy Chevette, Cadillac Cimarron, Cadillac 8-6-4.
Um...turbocharged Spyder?
Color promotional film from '62:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_keCJUvFrY
Yeah, it's sad. Once upon a time, we could hold our heads up high, and proudly proclaim that the Malibu was "The Car We Knew America Could Build".
Unfortunately, with 2013, it seems the Malibu is "The Car We Knew America Would Build"
Sorry, I can't take credit for that. Edmund's said it, in reference to the 2000 Impala...
Still, the Monza came out in late 1960, and by 1961 was the most popular model. And while it may not have had hot performance, it still had the sporty stuff, like the bucket seats and such. And let's face it, most Mustangs in 1965 just had 170 or 200 CID 6-cyl engines. Basically, all show and no go.
My old '69 Dart GT was kind of like that. It had bucket seats (but oddly, a column shift). Some sporty blackout trim here and there that made it look tougher than it really was. But, it just had a 225 slant six with 145 hp.
Turbo came in Spring 1962. Ford Mustang I mid-engine roadster, a real sports car, was prototyped in 1961, driven at a race track in Oct, 1962.
Corvair was a potpourri of vehicles - station wagons, vans, 4-door sedans, 2-door sedans and then later a convertible. In contrast, the Mustang from its very beginning as a mid-engine roadster was intended ONLY as a sports or sporty type car. Mustang was never available in mundane station wagon or sedan formats.
Wait...like the Captiva, someone here will say that, 'hey, if you really wanted one, you could get a new one!!!!'.
For roadability (not straight line 'oomph'), I believe you'd find that the magazines of the day would have said a Corvair Spyder or Corsa was a better handler than a Mustang.
A Mustang--don't get me wrong, the marketing was brilliant I think and the styling so, too--but it was a Falcon underneath and things don't get much more mundane than that.
Did not matter. Mustang began life as a sports/sports type car. A mid-engine roadster with seating of course for ONLY two. Ford being pragmatic felt not sufficient market for a 2 person car, and thus the 4-seater with a conventional front engine, rear drive layout. That was very smart in that they could utilize existing engineering and parts bin. Also, servicing could be conventional and easy by existing Ford dealers. Unlike weird layout of the Corvair.
Weird indeed. GM has never again put in production any US vehicle with a rear engine, rear drive layout. GM mismanagement not only in recent decades but goes back to the 1960's.
1. Compact/commuter. Chevy's entry is the Cruze, and while not a bad car, it's not class-leading in any area metric except possibly weight.
2. Midsize/family car. Let's ignore the Impala for now, because most others do also. The previous Malibu was an excellent entry, and very class-competitive. The current one...again, not a BAD car per-se (unless you have to sit in the back seat) but really not class-leading anywhere. The Eco model doesn't even lead in fuel economy.
3. Compact SUV. Everyone's got one, sort of the compact car, grown up some. Oh, sorry, I should say everyone's got one except Chevrolet.
4. Midsize SUV. This is what used to be the minivan, unless you're Dodge. Chevy actually has two pretty good entries here, the Equinox and the Traverse. Both are class-leading in some way, in fact. But there's one slight problem: Chevy has two entries here. :shades: Why are they cutting their own noses off again? Theoretically the Equinox is supposed to be a "compact" SUV, but it's too big for that. The Traverse is on the large end of midsize. Both are good cars. But they have to compete with each other as well as the competition!
Funny thing, I went to compare SUV sizes in the Edmunds tool, and selected the Equinox first. Lo and behold, what popped up in the "sponsored" column? The Traverse! So it's not just me thinking they'll be cross-shopped. :P
GM really needs to stop aiming the Bushmaster with the high capacity magazine at their own feet. Drop Equinox or Traverse already, bring in an actual compact SUV that's Forester/CR-V/CX-5/Escape sized, and move on with life. This whole too many models overkill thing has LONG been a part of GM's corporate culture, and at the very least it contributed to them needing a bailout. Problem is, even after a bailout and a bankruptcy, they're still doing it.
And now Dodge is dropping sliding doors on one of their two minivan lines. I'm in shock. :-)
GM should put sliders on the Traverse or just build a new minivan; love to see the sales numbers on a rig like a Traverse with sliders compared to the regular doored 'Nox. Well, maybe that's not such a good idea.
Steve's right, the Traverse should really be a minivan. Heck, it's actually filling the minivan role at Chevy, just with swing-out doors instead of sliding ones.
I notice there's no mention of the M.I.A. compact SUV entry at Chevrolet. :shades:
What they really need to do is offer the Chevy Trax to compete in the compact segment against the RAV, CRV, Tucson.
That's right it fills the minivan role but put sliding doors on it and it'll languish on the lots. The minivan market is down to 500K units annually. Chrysler, Honda and Toyota have that segment filled.
Now we just need the Trax. Which of course Chevy will refuse to bring us because Americans Don't Buy (whatever excuse)
It's that low now? Snowboard sales and rider numbers have crashed big time too. All the kids are riding twin tip skis and taking over the terrain parks.
Where's my official "I'm a dinosaur" card anyway? Must be in the (postal) mail. :sick:
That is correct, the unloved Malibu Eco was rated higher than the even more unloved Sonata Hybrid.
With CR anyway the Malibu is rated about the same as the Sonata/Optima as it's positioned between them in the ratings.
Where the Malibu continues to lag is against the Camry and Accord which will continue to dominate sales this year. I'm curious to see how the Fusion will be rated. Currently CR doesn't list the Fusion at all.
I tend to agree. The Regal obviously isn't working out. The Verano works, but then they throw in the Encore.
The Verano has sold better than I thought it would, so maybe the Encore will too. But I just don't see young people shopping at Buick. They haven't so far. Unless 50+ is young, which I guess considering where they were, I guess it is;)
No disagreemnt. But you really haven't answered the question - why are GM afficionados giving GM such a pass on turning out a decent, "midpack" sedan that is the heart of the family car market? They can do much better. I would hold my kid to a higher standard than average. Same with GM. If GM wants to reverse the perceptions, they need some home runs, and not in a $40K 4 seat hybrid, either.
I think you've made a great list.
Also, I might put in a subcompact, and surprisingly GM has TWO here, too - Spark and Sonic. Are they both considered subcompact?
Their entire product line is pretty much a mess. Duplications in many categories, yet gaps in others. And actually competitive in the lower volume markets (Corvette, ATS, Volt (but not on price)) and not in the main markets(except perhaps large trucks and SUVs).
I actually agree with this. It's better to compete with yourself than a competitor. Only issue is that the effort to develop another vehicle in the same segment would have been better spent plugging one of the holes instead.
I don't like the Equinox styling, either.
Seems to me the Cruze chassis might make a good foundation for a compat SUV. Isn't the CX-5 based on the Mazda 3? Same idea.
They're also cheap, which may be the actual attraction here, since we have rather goliath-sized parking even in cities.
They're heading down the same old road they were on before. Not much differentiation between divisions.
Let's see, the "commoner" division is Chevrolet. But, uh, they have the Corvette, which is an exotic sports car.
GMC is the "professional grade" division. Yet they have the family SUV, the Acadia. And a bunch (all?) of their vehicles are rebadges of other division vehicles.
OK, but Buick is the semi-luxury division. And they have the Regal - is that near luxury? And the Verano - what is the size difference between it and the Regal? That's also why they have a rebadge of the Chevy Acadia, now know as the Enclave. Except that in China, Buick is complete luxury with models that even make some of our Caddys look cheap.
Caddy is the REAL luxury division. That's why they have the Escalade, a tarted up Chevy Suburban.
We won't even talk about Holden or Opel.
Back to the Equinox discussion--THAT vehicle is too damn small IMHO, and we test-drove one. That, and the fact they weren't dealing on them all, and my disliking the styling and 'image' of the thing, were all negatives. Even my wife ended up coming to the same conclusion.
Again, sales of the Sonata show GM is not leading whatsoever in mid-sized category. They blew and they know it. The leaders are so far ahead, it's laughable, sadly!
Why does that continue to happen...
"Don't worry about it, Dan. We have the Government in out back pocket. We can live on Silerado sales in the US and concentrate on cheap cars in Asia. We pay Uncle Sam back at a small loss so everyone forgets we failed in the first place. We can decontent the refresh on the Malibu and add room to the back seat and still come out aead."
Regards,
OW
Exhausting.
Again, I don't own the issue, but I'm pretty sure that in the Feb. issue they would not recommend the Sonata Turbo because of its much-worse-than-average reliability record according to their survey.
There are a lot of reasons to buy a car, but buying one solely off of a magazine writer's choice is a lame one IMHO. There are a lot of personal things that aren't reflected in a writer's review, of course.
Ok, that concept is just scary considering how huge it is.
General Motors Co., seeking to revive sales of its new Chevrolet Malibu, is working on speedy design changes to the sedan -- including the rear seating -- to make it more competitive with other midsize models
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20130117/OEM04/130119831#ixzz2IL9QaloX
I think that's the correct plan of action. Old GM would have just slapped huge incentives and dumped them in to fleets.
Now they're actually using the feedback to improve the car.
Forester 107.6
CR-V 104.1
CX5 103.8
Tucson 101.9
RAV4 101.9
Outlander 100.4
Sportage 100
Equinox 99.7
Escape 98.1
Rogue 97.5
Tiguan 95.4
Having said that, only the Rogue and Tiguan are truly undersized.
The 'nox is also only mid-pack in cargo volume seats and and also seats down.
The Monza debuted in the spring of 1960 and for the time, it was considered to be a "sporty," as opposed to a "sports," car.
xrunner2: The rear-engine design and early offerings of Corvair more closely resemble the VW bug layout. Defininitely not a sporty type car.
The Monza was a coupe with bucket seats, console and special interior and exterior trim. It was considered sporty for that time.
xrunner2: Ford was successful with their original car layout. Mustang still around after 50 years. Corvair, a flop, long dead.
That doesn't prove that the first Monza didn't inspire what became the Mustang. And the first-generation Corvair sold well...unless you consider sales of 250,000-300,000 annually to be a flop. Most people don't.
The Valiant, Dart and Falcon are also long gone...but check their annual sales figures in the 1960s. They outsold the Corvair in many years. Are they flops, too?
We don't have rear-engine, air-cooled family sedans any more because other layouts work better. VW has also abandoned this configuration for its passenger cars. Was the original Beetle a flop, too?