Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Honda Accord VCM

1192022242551

Comments

  • itochuitochu Member Posts: 107
    Well, at least the owners here only paid about $26,000 - 30,000 for the privilege of the aggravations THEY are experiencing with VCM - a bargain! :P
  • sunnfunsunnfun Member Posts: 168
    Idiots! This does not make any sense at all and shows who is really driving the ship. The marketing division will be shut down as soon as the lawsuits come out for fraud on the current Accord VCM. They should leave the car building to the engineers. A V8 with VCM - what a contradiction. For $70k I want something that moves, I'm not worried about gas savings. And for those who wanted the VCM turned off or to have an on/off button, I think you can forget it after this announcement.
  • jam1000jam1000 Member Posts: 182
    Can you point me to the post where Honda (i.e., American Honda Motor Co.) admitted to noticeable issues with VCM in 30% of the '08 Accords that have it? I missed it, and an official acknowledgement of that will probably help me in my own tribulations. Thanks.
  • bug4bug4 Member Posts: 370
    But a V8 that reduced to 4cyl activation would still be a balanced engine -- right???? So, maybe VCM would work much more smoothly in a V8? [It makes logical sense that the biggest problem with the VCM in the V6 Accords is the very unbalanced 3cyl. operation.]
  • steevosteevo Member Posts: 389
    Consider this... The RL will be REAR wheel drive. So the engine will not be transverse mounted and it is likely the VCM will deactivate down to 6 or 4 rear most cylinders. Shouldnt require the funky vibration and sound dampening parts. My guess is it will be a much better application with a V8.
  • sunnfunsunnfun Member Posts: 168
    Setting aside the issues with the current V6 Accord, why would someone who is buying that car at that price care about fuel economy?????? Look at the pics, and the price. It is basically a sports car and does not need the VCM. It seems to me the marketing team is making decisions that are so far off what people are wanting. If it does come out, we'll see what the sales numbers are? I would be willing to bet the numbers are very low. V8 - good. Rear wheel drive - good. Looks (as of now) good. VCM - sales killer.
  • bug4bug4 Member Posts: 370
    I respectfully disagree ---- RL customers are into technology - and the RL is marketed to showcase technology. I don't view RL customers as sport car guys/gals who care only about performance. Rather, they want a damn fancy touring sedan and they aren't hung up on European brand names. They want a car that is VERY nice and they are willing to pay for amenities and technology. Frankly, I don't think Acura can beat BMW or Mercedes in the brand recognition arena, so they have to find a way to distinguish themselves. Personally, I think VCM is a great way to do that.. . . . . particularly if VCM can be implemented in a V8 without the issues it presents in a V6.
  • cstilescstiles Member Posts: 465
    No, that is incorrect. The next RL will be on the rear drive platform (vs the current FWD architecture), but it will be offered with all wheel drive. Probably an advanced iteration of the "super handling" AWD system currently found on the RL, RDX, MDX, and upcoming TL.

    The real test is whether VCM will be offered across virtually all Acura offerings. Most notably the next TL will be the one to watch. If VCM is offered, that will be a significant development and a further acknowledgement that Honda believes that the technology works and has application to a broad audience spanning luxury and performance.

    Or, Honda will simply crash and burn in a flurry of lawsuits if a handful of people on this forum are correct. Time will tell.
  • dpmeersmandpmeersman Member Posts: 275
    Regardless of a persons income and ability to afford a car like the RL, we should all care about fuel economy. The 2010 RL with a V8 will move the marque more upscale. Joe Well To Do can drive his wife to the latest PETA gathering where she can write a 5 digit donation to save some obscure creature, saving fuel in the process. The next day he can beat the b'jesus out of his RL to make his 12:00 tee time at the local country club. Fuel economy and get-up & go is the promise of VCM with the added benefit of lower emissions.
  • yrmacyrmac Member Posts: 134
    Where do you get this figure and from what source? You are implying that Honda acknowledged this 30% but I perused the internet and I couldn't find anything that remotely acknowledge this figure. If it's coming from one of these posters, it's just that, an anecdote.
  • sunnfunsunnfun Member Posts: 168
    So for $70K, you're willing to roll the dice on whether your car has any issues with the VCM? For $70k, you're open to the possibilty that you might have to spend quality time with the dealer for test drives, phone calls with Corp and tech lines in an effort to resolve any VCM issues. (Honda admits that 30% of the Accord's have issues with the VCM - I will confirm this on Thurs when I take mine back to the dealer for this issue) I wish you good luck if you decide to buy. And I can assure you people with $70K to spend on a car will not tolerate any VCM issues. They have the resources to fight a legal battle, maybe not so much for the Accord crowd.

    Just as an FYI - I was considering this car but decided against it because of $$. I went with the Accord and now 100% regret it. I have been working with the local Acura dealer to try and minimize my loss if I do a trade in. Acura/Lexus or Infiniti will be my next car here shortly. As soon as I can find the right deal. So long VCM!!!!!!
  • parvizparviz Member Posts: 484
    "...And I can assure you people with $70K to spend on a car will not tolerate any VCM issues. They have the resources to fight a legal battle, maybe not so much for the Accord crowd...."

    Assuming your prediction of the VCM failure on the RL (a big assumption), I don't think the well-off people would care about suing a car company. Just look at the reliability issues with all the big names including Range Rover, Jaguar, MB and BMW. How many law suits have you heard of, only jokes about how unreliable they are and life goes on.

    On a related note, I think technology and efficiency belongs where the luxury is as well, Cadillac Escalade is coming up with a hybrid version and we all know it is going to be pricey.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Setting aside the issues with the current V6 Accord, why would someone who is buying that car at that price care about fuel economy??????

    Those in the LS600h chose a hybrid over a V12 for the same money, so I'd say some apparently DO care about economy, even if it's not a matter of affording the gas or not.

    People paying over $50k for a Lexus RX400h or a GS Hybrid are paying lots for hybrid powertrains that improve economy (and performance) as well. Honda is doing the same, just with a different type of technology - having lots of power without the power penalty.
  • sunnfunsunnfun Member Posts: 168
    I would beg to differ. If that was the case then the Accord Hybrid would still be around. They don't sell and this is Honda's way is sneaking it in the back door. I could see a BIG SUV or the Mini-Van with this type of VCM technology (I still don't agree with it) because I generally don't see those as "performance or racing type vehicles". I would have to research the models you quoted to know if there is a "hybrid" version and a non-hybrid version and see which sold more. But someone with a car like the RL would not spend that kind of money and have to deal with the VCM (Plus in my opinion there is a performance loss with the VCM. My car definetly does not pick up as fast as my old 2001 and I suspect that is because of the VCM) V8 means more about power and strength and less about mileage, especially with the change to rear wheel drive. Maybe they should put the VCM on the TL and leave the RL.

    Also - I need to find the website that did the dyno test on the new accord. It never did put out 260 horses, more like 230-240 and that was only when they ran the crap out of it, not something you could do on the normal highway.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I would beg to differ. If that was the case then the Accord Hybrid would still be around.

    Hold it, first you are talking about $70k cars not worrying about economy, then relate it to the plebian family-car Accord? I can't make much sense out of that one.

    They sell, or Lexus wouldn't still have these on the market, as the RX400h and its GS brother have been on sale for a nice little while now. Whether or not you'd buy one is a different story (you are obviously biased against VCM/MDS technology, which I don't have a problem with; it's still obviously a fact though). Other automakers don't have an issue with it in their large sedans (Impala, Chrysler LX platform sedans, etc).

    It never did put out 260 horses, more like 230-240 and that was only when they ran the crap out of it, not something you could do on the normal highway.

    First-of-all, all cars will have driveline losses from the flywheel to a dyno. A typical amount is 15% from what I understand. Second, what gas-powered family car DOES NOT have to be wound up to get the max amount of power? The Malibu's peak hp is at 6300 RPM. The Accord's is at 6000 RPM. Gas powered engines make their power peaks up high in the RPM range typically. In this class it shouldn't be a problem. Punch the pedal and you're there.

    I have an idea; why not create a topic based on the 2010 Acura RL VCM, if you'd like to continue discussing it. I just realized what this forum really is, and our discussion is headed off topic in a big hurry! :)
  • hank119hank119 Member Posts: 39
    itochu
    If 70% don't have the problem how can someone find six cars in a row that do have the problem? Consider the probability.

    I am very sympathetic to the posters here who complained about VCM problems with the cars they actually own. But considering all the posts from the very few individuals who insist that VCM problems is wide spread and which they have determined through extensive testing of demonstrator vehicles, I have to consider myself extremely lucky.
    So lucky I should be considering investing heavily in Lottery tickets.

    Incidentally, itochu what color is your 2008 Honda Accord. Mine is White Diamond Pearl. I drive it a lot. Not just test drives.
  • itochuitochu Member Posts: 107
    Lucky me. Again - your questionning my experiences is an attempt to diminsh them. Like I said - I do not diminsh your pleasureable experiences. Exasperating.
  • itochuitochu Member Posts: 107
    A poster here cited Honda Technicians in California, his regional representative by Name, and even gave his case number for reference. His dealer, Midlands Honda exchanged out his car for a 6MT coupe. I am not going to go back looking for it - you can. This is not a courtroom and you are not the judge - got find it yourself. I don't have to show you evidence! Perhaps he will repost - it may be on the Honda Accord Sedan and Coupe forum. This is not anectdotal.

    POST 4979 Honda Accord Sedan and Coupe
  • itochuitochu Member Posts: 107
    There was a poster with a 2008 Coupe with AT and VCM who took it back to his dealer, Midlands Honda in Columbia, SC and they exchange out the carfor a MT coupe. He cited his regioanl rep by name who spoke with Honda technicians in CA who acknowledged 30% of the cars have "issues" but that Honda considers them within "normal" operating conditions. The poster cited the rep by name, phone number, and gave his case number invigint people to contact him.

    It is in this forum - within the past two weeks - or the Sedan and Coupe forum - same time frame.

    POST 4979 Honda Accord Sedan and Coupe
  • itochuitochu Member Posts: 107
    Ask your service rep to get ahold of David Kitchen, my area Honda service rep out of California, who is over North Carolina, South Carolina, and Missouri. He has definitely heard about the VCM issue. My Honda Tech, who felt the hunting and surging in my car and verified it contacted the online Tech help and they talked with Honda techs in California and they are aware of the VCM when they stated to him that about 30% of the cars they drive out there in California the VCM is felt more than other cars and they say at this time it's within the normal limits. My two page letter detailing what my car was doing that went to Honda in California was shared with the Honda Engineers last month as told to me by David Kitchen so yes Honda is aware of the VCM issue or whatever is related to that issue. I would assume that when these reps meet or have their own site to discuss issues they have all heard about the VCM issue unless they are not keeping in touch with their counterparts who represent other states. I will even give them my Honda Case # so they can look it up. Case # N012008-02-0600823
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Thanks itochu, but you need to make it clear when you are quoting someone else. Your post looks like it's coming directly from you.

    For everyone, here is the link to the post itochu copied and pasted in #1144: cody3764, "2008 Honda Accord Coupe and Sedan" #4979, 13 Mar 2008 12:14 pm

    For future reference, it couldn't be easier to link to another post here (although it could be way more obvious than it is, indeed ;)). All you need to do is right click on the post number, which is actually a link, and choose Copy or Copy Shortcut or whatever similar choice your browser provides.

    Then go to a new message, right-click and choose paste. You won't see all the fancy stuff until you post the message, but, just like that link above, it will be there then.

    Hope this helps!
  • jam1000jam1000 Member Posts: 182
    Thanks. I do remember this post now that you re-post it. I had forgotten that it mentioned a 30% number but, more importantly, that it referenced that an American Honda CSR was involved. Note, though, Mr. Kitchen's position that "they [Honda Tech Line] say at this time it's within the normal limits." So the corporate line is that it's an issue -- but not a problem -- 30% of the time. There's also no indication that anything is being done to address the issue (and presumably the answer is no, since it's not recognized as a problem). The poster in question was able to get out of the V6 and into an I4, as I recall, solely as an accommodation by the dealer, not by American Honda.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Let's just remember that we are going on a single third-hand report about what Honda corporate's position is. That does not make the statement of the postion dispositive, IMHO.

    That's not to say it should be written off, I just want all of us to keep a cool head about what we're reading. ;)
  • yrmacyrmac Member Posts: 134
    As I said...it's anecdotal and I am not writing off cody's experience. But the 30% is debatable coming from a single source. By itochu's post, it seemed like Honda (corporate Honda) admitted to the 30% VCM problem but apparently, that was not the case.
  • merlion0821merlion0821 Member Posts: 143
    Honda should not be able to say that the VCM being felt at all is within "normal" limits. They should be reminded of their own marketing language of "seamless", and "unnoticed". "Normal" should be nothing being felt whatsoever when VCM switches modes. I would think at some point that some type of legal action will be taken on this matter.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    We don't know if that is the case or if that is not the case. We know that a member reported that his technician said that corporate Honda did admit to that. That's what we know.

    The reason I keep posting about this is that I'd like to help folks not to jump to conclusions. Take the words for what they are worth. Don't read more - or less - into them than what is there.

    :)
  • golfrskigolfrski Member Posts: 262
    itochu.... thank you for sharing and THANK YOU FOR THE COURAGE to share your info to us. Honda told me that they have had minimal people complaining about this car and any issue with VCM. I am here to tell everyone this is being covered up..... this is a much larger issue and I have spoken to Honda Engineers that say this is an issue... Its a ashame that some of us will get hosed in this process... what a lesson learned. I drove my buddies Maxima today and I do not like toyota's but it drove like a dream compared to my V6 08 Accord... a dream....
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Until Honda releases an official statement, if they ever do, it's all hearsay.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    I drove my buddies Maxima today and I do not like toyota's but it drove like a dream compared to my V6 08 Accord... a dream....

    When did Toyota start making Maximas? :confuse: Which is it? A Toyota, or a Maxima? Can't be both.
  • golfrskigolfrski Member Posts: 262
    sorry oh wise one... Nissan. let that simple mistake negate all my posts.. :shades:
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    let that simple mistake negate all my posts..

    If you insist. :confuse:
  • itochuitochu Member Posts: 107
    "My Honda Tech, who felt the hunting and surging in my car and verified it contacted the online Tech help and they talked with Honda techs in California and they are aware of the VCM when they stated to him that about 30% of the cars they drive out there in California the VCM is felt more than other cars and they say at this time it's within the normal limits."

    Are not the online Tech help people and Honda techs in California Honda employees? Do they not represent Honda? I never said Honda of America, the corporation itself, had admitted anything as you suggest. That was your mistaken inference.
  • itochuitochu Member Posts: 107
    They put him in a V6 Coupe with 6MT
  • itochuitochu Member Posts: 107
    Whoops- sorry Pat - did that wrong - thanks for pointing it out and how to copy a link. :)
  • itochuitochu Member Posts: 107
    I would agree - if the legal rewwards could be greater like with mesothelioma, class action attorneys would be jumping all over it.
  • yrmacyrmac Member Posts: 134
    Gimme a break...No they do not. Unless Honda releases a TSB in regards to this problem, techs opinions, might it be online or Californian, are just that, an OPINION. Also, you are getting the 30% from a third party and you're posting this number as if it's an official stat coming from Honda.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    How 'bout we calm down and back off the personal confrontations, eh?
  • yrmacyrmac Member Posts: 134
    For awhile there, I really thought you own one of these 8th gen. Accord and you are having problems with the VCM. Sorry my mistake, you don't even have a dog in this race.
  • parvizparviz Member Posts: 484
    I am just wondering why (and how) some people who don't even own the V6 w/ VCM are so passionately trying to trash the technology and the manufacturer behind it.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Why don't we stick to the subject and leave off discussing other posters? It's easy enough to ignore posts we do not find useful.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    what part of "why don't we stick to the subject and leave off discussing other posters" wasn't clear, but let me try again.

    We need to stop talking about other posters. If you continue to do that, your posts will be deleted and your posting privileges here may be removed.

    We need to get back on topic. If you have questions or comments for me, please email me, do not post them here.

    Thank you.
  • henrychinaskihenrychinaski Member Posts: 12
    Just bought my 08 Accord. I had unfortunately not read any of this forum and was thus unaware of any issue with VCM. Considering the glowing reviews the new accord seems to be getting at Consumer Reports and Edmunds, I figured I was safe, but now i have some regrets.

    my vcm does not seem to be as severe as some out there, but basically i echo others' sentiments when i say it is absolutely annoying. in essence it feels like the car is either inappropriately downshifting (giving the lurching feeling of being in too low of a gear so that the car needs to slow down quickly on its own), or a slight surge of power as the eco light goes off.

    give me a break. i spent 30k+ with options on this car and my prior ride (05 mazda6) along with every other automatic transmission car in the universe rides smoother than mine new one. i hope to god they come out with a way to at least give owners the option to override vcm completely if they want. i'll eat the gas money (assuming vcm saves me any) just to have a smooth riding car.

    at this point i'm not going to return the car as I feel like there are a lot of other benefits and things i enjoy about it, but damn if i'm not a little upset about this.
  • cstilescstiles Member Posts: 465
    American Honda just released a major press announcement that states that VCM will be installed on all Honda lawnmowers, power generators, and scooters by model year 2010. Applications for the Honda Advanced Compact Business Jet, as well as for the Honda ASIMO Humanoid Robot, are also under analysis.
    At a press conference at the New York Auto Show, Honda CEO Takeo Fukui indicated, "Variable Cylinder Management is the single greatest technological advancement since the advent of the CVCC engine in the 1976 Accord. We are proud to announce that VCM will be available as a standard feature on all of our power products within the next 4 years. R&D has begun for the next generation of the Hondajet Advanced Compact Business Jet to be released in 2014, and we plan to offer VCM on the next ASIMO Humanoid Robot. ASIMO tends to rattle too much when he laughs at my bad jokes. I trust that VCM will help him relax and calm down a little."
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Aren't you about 12 days early with this? ;)
  • steevosteevo Member Posts: 389
    :D
  • parvizparviz Member Posts: 484
    I have experienced some of what you have mentioned in your post regarding the downshift. However, I do not believe that has anything to do with the VCM. I could be wrong, though.
  • jam1000jam1000 Member Posts: 182
    "... every other automatic transmission car in the universe rides smoother than mine new one ..."

    Bingo. I agree with Parviz that it may not be VCM, but instead the transmission shift points. Or perhaps some changes they made in the transmission shift points to accommodate the VCM.

    It's good for you that you're prepared to live with it, b/c when I discussed this with the American Honda CSR, he said it's normal, end of story.
  • sunnfunsunnfun Member Posts: 168
    Well I gave in and took my car back to the dealer today. Since the dealer I bought the car from is an hour away, I went to the local dealer instead.
    First thing the SM tells me when I arrive is that if there is an issue with the car that needs to be fixed, I will have to take it back to the dealer I bought it from. Any car with less than 3000 miles (mine has 749) has to be fixed by the originating dealer due to some finance issue relate to the check list they should have followed when the car was pulled off the truck. (I have never heard of this??????) I did not argue, I figured I would deal with that later.
    So he gets a tech and we take a test drive. Before the drive, I tell him (the tech) the issues that I am having with the VCM. I could tell by his eyes and facial expression this was not new to him. As it turns out, they get a couple of cars a month returning because of the VCM issue. We take the test drive and the car performed as it normally does for me. He was not surprised but said my car was better than most (what does that say about the other cars????).
    We return and he determines that it is working as it should (I assumed that would be the answer. I don't believe anything is broken, it's just a poor design) and there is nothing they can do (surprise surprise) So we chat a little more and he says that "the car is not seamless, and unnoticeable to the user". "Every Accord V6 does the same thing as mine". "The difference is the driver". "Some are more in tune with their car like me, and some people are in la la land and don't know anything is going on under the hood". "Honda should have never put that seamless information in their info" (no kidding). He said the older Odysseys are worse (I don't own one so I can't verify that). Since the Odysseys have had the VCM issues for years and Honda has never fixed them, don't expect a fix on these either. On a good note, he has not seen any engine problems because of the VCM (I did not ask about the Odyssey tranny issues).
    So that puts me back to square one. When the Honda Case Mgr calls me back after talking to the dealer, I'm sure I'll get the "there's nothing we can do" answer and that will be it. And since the Odyssey has never been fixed, I would not expect a fix on this either. I'm very disappointed. I spent alot of money and am not happy with the car. Now I have to start the whole test drive/email/price neg thing again on a different car.

    On a side note, when the Honda Case Mgr did ask me what I wanted Honda to do, I said fix the car. Since that does not look good now, has anyone negotiated anything else in a situation like this, like an extended warranty, or a car buy back with Honda?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    He said the older Odysseys are worse (I don't own one so I can't verify that). Since the Odysseys have had the VCM issues for years and Honda has never fixed them, don't expect a fix on these either.

    Having ridden in (but not driven) a 2005 EX-L Odyssey (brand new with less than 2k miles at the time) on a short trip from Birmingham to Tuscaloosa, AL, I can say that I felt nothing; although I did look at the ECO light to try and see when it changed. Never noticed a vibration or surge.

    The owner of that Odyssey is a mechanic that fixes up old sports cars (a '62 Corvette and a Porsche 914, to name the most recent ones). He's never mentioned a problem with it, and WE recommended the Honda dealer to them, so i feel like we'd have heard something by now if they had issues with it.

    I say all that to say this: it sounds like the Accord VCM has more issues than the Odyssey VCM based on personal experience with an Odyssey, and what I've read about the Accord. Don't be so sure Honda won't fix it just yet.
Sign In or Register to comment.