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Honda Accord VCM

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Comments

  • osumbosumb Member Posts: 1
    I took a test drive in a new 2008 V6 Accord. Planned on purchasing one to replace my 2001 Accord coupe which has given great service with little or no repair expense, good performance. We also have a 2006 Accord.
    I drove the car on city streets, no VCM problem noticed. During acceleration on the highway, no problem. Cruising on the highway at any speed produced a sensation every 15-20 seconds of the engine surging or searching, like a torque converter surge or the air conditioner in an underpowered car, constant switching on and off.
    The engine performed perfectly, good power, the car is everything I hoped it would be, but the engine/transmission/VCM would drive me absolutely crazy. There is no chance I will buy this car unless all new cars drive like this, or Honda sees the light and corrects the problem. Without the VCM function, this would be a dream car.
    OSUMB
  • golfrskigolfrski Member Posts: 262
    Thank you for honest feedback and futher validation that Honda has gone wrong here!! I agree wholeheartedly.. if it was a straight 6 like my 04,, it would be a DREAM car. It's maddening in every respect. Let the forum ride, we shall see many more of these everyday as they find this thread..

    HONDA PLEASE WAKE UP AND HELP US.

    :sick:
  • osagiosagi Member Posts: 15
    I currently own a 1999 Accord Coupe V6 and is looking to replace it with the 2008 V6 Sedan. I test drove one last weekend and like many of you, I am very disappointed with the engine. I don't know much about engines but I sure noticed some difference sin the 2008 model that I don't like. Firstly, the car didn't excel when i floored the gas pedal - i.e. it remained at 60 KM (or 40m) for the longest time before the speed eventually went up to 70Km. I cannot feel the power of the V6 at all!! :mad: Secondly, I did experience the VCM problem everyone is talking about here. I really hope Honda would address these issues quickly and correct them for the 2009 model. Otherwise, i will look at Honda's competitors for a replacement - Camry, Altima, etc.
  • juxtojuxto Member Posts: 16
    We are looking at replacing our accord. We were concerned about transmissions. I know accords have had trouble with them from the late 90s thru mid 00s (2003 being the worst year). We drove the 4 and 6 cylinder models. The 4 scares me because of the transmission issues of the past (honda didnt fix them, they extended the warranties - i believe due to class action suits). The 6 cyl felt like a pump kept coming on and off while in cruise mode (40 mile trip). My big concern is that honda wont fix this, but extend the engine warranty - perhaps after a class action lawsuit. I dont want an extended warranty, but a car that doesn't constantly have a "pump-like" kicking in and out on a steady basis. I believe we will wait to see if honda fixes this in 2009. If not, we will buy our first non-honda in a very long time.
  • rodiron620rodiron620 Member Posts: 53
    The VCM issue is simply unbelievable. Cannot Believe Honda let this go to production. this is the first time I have heard the explanation of a "pump-like" feeling from the VCM that is very accurate. Maddening and accurate. Its a show stopper for me personally if I had it to do over again.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    The 4 scares me because of the transmission issues of the past (honda didnt fix them, they extended the warranties - i believe due to class action suits).

    The 4-cylinder has never had transmission issues that I know of, unlike the V6. They DID fix them, by adding a transmission cooling line, I believe.

    Seems like whoever gave you information was misinformed. :)

    If the six worries you, and the four is sufficient, go for the four.
  • juxtojuxto Member Posts: 16
    Ours was one of the 4 cylinders involved in one of the class action lawsuits. We were number 11 on the waiting list to get it replaced at a small dealership. We were not misinformed. We bought our car from a friend who told us IF we ever had a problem with our new car it would be the transmission, but not to worry because honda usually extends the warranty to 100k miles. We were well informed by our friend - the salesman. And we have had no problems other than the transmissions (yes, plural).
  • hank119hank119 Member Posts: 39
    osagi
    I'm curious about your description of the the acceleration you obtained during your test drive. You floored the accelerator and the car stayed for a long time at " 60KM " till ir reached "70KM". I imagine you mean kilometers per hour.
    Did you floor it at 60 kph or did you floor it from a standstill.? You're talking of going from about 37mph to about 43mph taking a very long time. I can't understand that. I haven't seen any other postings here about the V6 being sluggish.

    Also, which VCM symptoms did you encounter during your test drive?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Never heard of a major transmission problem outside of those who didn't get them serviced. What year?
  • juxtojuxto Member Posts: 16
    Our 2000 and 2003 models (both 4 cylinders) and both had transmission serviced every 30k - took the advice of our salesman friend to service early for preventative maintenance. No other problems with the car.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    My fathers 04 V6 EX-L had it's tranny replaced recently. Yes, I know, V6. but, it's apparent that the tranny issues continued past 2003.

    Since this is a VCM thread, I had a customer the other day come into my Mazda store inquiring about the 2009 Mazda6 (nothing official yet) wanting to trade his 2008 Accord V6 because he was "not thrilled with's Honda's interpretation of cylinder management" He also said "....that type of technology has been around for a while, and I have no idea how Honda screwed it up in this newer rendition since their previous technology seemed to work OK" This out of the mouth of a man in his 50's, owning 3 previous Accords.
  • austinman7austinman7 Member Posts: 313
    "I believe we will wait to see if Honda fixes this in 2009."

    Unfortunately, it appears there is no chance at all of Honda doing this, as much as I would personally like to see it. A Honda news release posted here a few weeks ago had Honda embracing VCM as a breakthrough technology that they plan to use on an increasing number of their products. So instead of seeing it as a problem or some kind of misstep, they see it as the next great thing in engine technology.

    Not me. I'm in the camp of those for whom the '08 V6 Accord would be a great choice were it not for VCM (you can also keep ANC, for my two cents worth). I'm going to keep driving my excellent '04 I4 Accord awhile longer until I can find another V6 sedan I'm interested in. I hate to leave the Honda camp, but may be doing so, to get a V6 that is a V6 all the time.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    My fathers 04 V6 EX-L had it's tranny replaced recently. Yes, I know, V6. but, it's apparent that the tranny issues continued past 2003.

    It's pretty well known (on the Accord boards, anyway, thanks to elroy) that the transmission problems for Gen VII were on 2003 and early-build 2004 V6 models, so hearing a 2004 once in awhile doesn't surprise me.

    A friend of mine from high school (and now college) has a 2001 3.2CL; it's tranny bit the dust at 88k miles. Replaced free of charge though.

    It wasn't limited to Honda 3.0L models.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Yeah, my dad's Accord was purchased in April 2004, so, I would assume it was an early model.
  • jusvisitnjusvisitn Member Posts: 9
    "He also said "....that type of technology has been around for a while, and I have no idea how Honda screwed it up in this newer rendition since their previous technology seemed to work OK" This out of the mouth of a man in his 50's, owning 3 previous Accords."

    Just reminder again, most are not making the separation of previous Honda VCMs with the current 2008 V6/VCM version. Previous were 2 stage cylinder deactivation scheme. 2008 is 3 stage cylinder deactivation scheme .....

    jusvisitn, "2008 Honda Accord VCM" #1239, 29 Mar 2008 1:34 pm

    This is important distinction/difference and people have to look deeper. Again, this VCM is not same as past ones.

    There is a another forum called DriveAccord. Only very brief VCM topic there, however, it seems they're maybe mostly young'ish crowd and more interested in accessorizing their Accords for cruising & such. ;) Also, no mention of VCM issue at Consumer Reports' very sparsely populated forum. What about Edmunds long term review of 2008 Accord? When will be that updated? Or maybe people or reviewers who overlook the VCM thing, just figure it's a minor idiosyncrasy to be tolerated because it's for the Eco Cause?

    Where I work, just yesterday, I only briefly test drove someone's Accord, he just purchased which I saw in our employee parking lot. Only around the block a couple of times. It seemed okay & didn't feel anything, but not enough time & distance to really check it out. I did not tell that owner about the possible VCM issue which might unecessarily alarm him and then, he might kill me! (the 'messenger') For the last number of years, I've owned American cars & a truck right now, so I am not accustomed to current feel of the latest models. I'll first need to test drive other 2008 models (import & american) at dealership so I get a sense and then can get a better perspective when I do test drive with Accord again, at a dealership. Right now, the field is wide open for another car make other than Accord, but I want to test drive it anyway.
  • yrmacyrmac Member Posts: 134
    All Honda VCM, might it be the first generation (i.e. Honda Odyssey 6-3 deactivation) to the current 3-4-6 VCM, are all based on the same technology (VTEC). It's just an extension of the i-VTEC technology.
  • buttdonkeybuttdonkey Member Posts: 25
    HEY THERE,take a ride in a Chevy Malibu..ltz v-6 you will be surprised........
  • osagiosagi Member Posts: 15
    hank119
    I floored the pedal from 60km/h trying to get the speed up to 70 and eventually to 90km/h. I think i waited for approx 10 seconds and gave up. I've actually read on other forums about the sluggish issue. I am going to test drive it one more time this weekend before giving up on the V6 Accord completely. As for the VCM problem, I felt a forceful shift when I was driving on a highway. I can't remember whether I was accelerating at the time. Sorry I can't give you more tech descriptions.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    So you're saying it took more than ten seconds to rise less than 15 MPH? That's hard to understand, since my 1996 (130hp) Accord can do that at 60 to 75 MILES per hour, much less km/h.
  • bdagolferbdagolfer Member Posts: 5
    I tried to go from 60km/h to80km/h last night in my V6 coupe, and hit 90 before I realized it. If yours is dragging it's derriere I suggest you see a dealer as it sounds like you have some problems there.

    Alan
  • henrychinaskihenrychinaski Member Posts: 12
    in response, i am a new poster.

    i did post a while back about problems with the VCM and I guess I just want to reiterate that I have all of the problems described herein, though perhaps not as bad as some. so yeah, the worst part of my VCM experience is doing about 45 coming up on a stop light, let go of the gas and coast, and suddenly its like the car has downshifted to first gear while i'm still going 40 miles and hour. its not like i'm gonna go flying through the windshield, but its not exactly smooth riding either.

    i suppose you could possibly videotape this, but what good would it do? so you get to see someone lean forward a few inches in their car when the 3cyl. mode kicks in. fantastic. great. then what?
  • parvizparviz Member Posts: 484
    Either watching video tape or discussions like this could help resolve or clarify issues. From what I understand what you have described has nothing to do with VCM. That is the downshift of the transmission which is inherent to most Hondas, including Accord.
  • cstilescstiles Member Posts: 465
    Sounds like your issue is the transmission, rather than VCM. Did you get your dealer to look at it? Are they telling you that it's normal? Have they made a connection to your issue with cylinder activation or deactivation?

    A few posters most upset on Edmunds have written letters to Honda, the state's attorney general, Better Business Bureau, etc. Many are referring to Honda's false advertising, or quoting from magazine/newspaper articles. If I were them, I would include a video of my car's behavior to present as strong a case as I possibly can. Put it on You Tube! Having tens of thousands of people watch will make Honda uncomfortable. Whether they feel VCM is an issue or not, they will have to respond to the power of the Internet and video evidence that is presented for the world to see. Without the video (or something that allows the reader to understand the depth of their issue), I think these owners' cases are ultimately very weak and lacking substance. The articles they refernce are mostly positive, aside from a lukewarm comment about VCM. The car is getting overall positive press, so far. The VTEC article (linked by several on these boards) is also generally positive about the Accord. There are no references in that article about surging or abnormal engine behavior. Their only conclusion is that they are reserving judgment on the merits of VCM.

    March was a brutal month for car sales in the U.S. However, Honda's results were one of the very best. Sales of the Accord remain fairly strong, in spite of the economy. The other companies are seeing double digit declines, but Honda is currently holding its own with a net increase if you adjust for sales days, and overall they are down -3% on a year to year basis. So far, consumers are buying Accords in decent numbers. If VCM truly is a problem, Honda will have to face the music in the next 3-6 months once these drivers form their opinions based on extended ownership.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    the worst part of my VCM experience is doing about 45 coming up on a stop light, let go of the gas and coast, and suddenly its like the car has downshifted to first gear while i'm still going 40 miles and hour.

    This sounds like a "Grade Logic" problem. Unless you were going down a hill, the car should not down-shift like that. My 03 Accord actually did that once (hard down-shift) going down a bridge. I hit the brake pedal kind of quickly, and I suppose the computer took this as a panic situation, and down-shifted hard. Now when I go down and incline, I try not to hit the brakes, or at least try to apply them gently, and it hasn't happened again.
  • fosterphx1fosterphx1 Member Posts: 12
    My 08 V6 has 7,000 miles and none of the problems described in this discussion. If you pay very close attention, you can feel the VCM kick in but in normal driving it is totally unnoticeable. The ECO light does have a tendency to cause you to drive more smoothly and anticipate slowing down. We are consistently getting 24 mpg driving around Phoenix. Haven't tried a road trip yet.
    This is the most refined Honda I have driven and I think it is an excellent car.
  • parvizparviz Member Posts: 484
    I don't mean to digress from the original intention of this thread. However, since this is being discussed I wanted to mention that my 08 V6 downshifts on the exact situation described in the OP when in an uphill grade when I let go of the gas but don't brake.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    08 V6 downshifts on the exact situation described in the OP when in an uphill grade when I let go of the gas but don't brake.

    My 03 has Grade Logic, but it doesn't do that. I think VCM operation is affecting the Grade logic. When the transmission downshifts in 3 cylinder mode, it makes a big difference from an engine downshifting to the same gear, running on all 6 cylinders. IMO, you should have to give the computer an indication you are trying to slow down (push the brake pedal) before it decides to downshift. That would be "Logical".
  • abeebabeeb Member Posts: 25
    Elroy,

    I don't understand why VCM would make a difference in grade logic the way you describe. If downshifting to a given gear in 3 cylinder mode would be more extreme than in 6 cylinder mode, this would mean that there is somehow more engine resistance when in 3 cylinder than in 6. This makes no sense. This is not the way VCM works. Perhaps, the grade logic in the 2008s is just a different design completely or not working correctly in some vehicles.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    I was just thinking that the engine, running on only 3 cylinders, would be turning more rpm to make the same hp as when running on all 6 cylinders. That would make the downshift more of a drastic change in rpm, and more of a jolt to the driver. Maybe that has something to do with it, and maybe not.
  • bj02176bj02176 Member Posts: 115
    I had a 2003 Honda Accord 4 cyl, there was nothing wrong with the auto trans, other than me wanting a suv. Shifted great and accelerated as fast as a 2005 6 cyl Ford Escape. Yes that's what I traded it on.
  • cody3764cody3764 Member Posts: 18
    Man what a difference a day makes. I have posted in here a few times about my VCM problems and what actions I took with Honda and service techs. Luckily when I met with the GM at Midlands Honda in Columbia, SC he didn't hesitate to say I want you to be happy with your experience here as a customer. I had a 2008 Honda Accord EX-L V-6 Coupe A/T with VCM problems and as of today when I traded her in she had 2732 Miles on her odo. My dealer took pitty on me and let me trade it on a new 2008 Honda Accord EX-L V-6 Coupe 6-Spd Black on Black that they did a dealer trade for me to get it delivered to my dealership. He gave me in trade exactly what I paid originally for my A/T so no money lost on the trade value at all. Truly amazing of course for the GM to do that for me and he sold me the 6-Spd for the same price I had paid for the A/T which was about $200 over invoice. As we all know the A/T and the Manual versions list for the same price. The 6-spd just came in today and as anyone who knows 6-spds are very rare to get and I just got home driving her from the dealership. I found the 6-spd very easy to shift and the clutch was no problem at all. Man what a difference and no more VCM problems for me. I would recommended having now owned both an A/T and now a Manual that if you are able to make a choice get the 6-spd as it in my opinion is a much better performing car regardless if you luck up and get an A/T without VCM problems. Can't wait to install the under body kit on her next month. I now can smile while I drive my Coupe. I hope all of you with VCM problems get something resolved. If I had not had such a great GM at my dealership I still wouldn't be smiling. Now I can relax and finally enjoy the car. All the best to everyone.
  • chazbo3chazbo3 Member Posts: 1
    PLEASE send me the Honda 3-state GM's contact information who helped you!!! I'm getting no where with Honda regarding the same VCM problem!!!

    THANK YOU!!!
  • golfrskigolfrski Member Posts: 262
    same here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • cody3764cody3764 Member Posts: 18
    Was that question for me?
  • gleen6191gleen6191 Member Posts: 80
    I still toss and turn at night trying to figure out if its the 4 or the 6 with the issues.

    HHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Huh?

    The 4-cylinder doesn't have the VCM system. The V6 with the automatic transmission does, and is the system with which some owners are having problems.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    4 cylinder owners have been complaining about flickering headlights. They say every time the A/C compressor kicks on, there is a very noticeable dimming of the headlights.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    But being that we're in the VCM forum I assumed the poster I replied to was referring to the VCM issues.
  • jam1000jam1000 Member Posts: 182
    Did you ever get a response from Honda in response to the letter or email you sent?
  • gleen6191gleen6191 Member Posts: 80
    I meant do i get the 4 or go with the v6 since the v6 has most of the issues.

    sorry
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    since the v6 has most of the issues.

    That depends on what forum you happen to be on. On some other forums flickering headlights are a major irritation, and VCM is not even mentioned.
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Member Posts: 374
    I have to admit - I have had my 2008 EXL V6 for about 3 1/2 months and just passed the 2000 mile mark. After having read all these posts and gotten caught up, I too have been among those with the problems - surging, jerkiness, moving into and out of 3 or 4 cylinder operation on the highway, and general unhappiness with the operation of the VCM - to the point I was considering selling the car. However, something seems to have happened to it - like it has goten broken in or something. Just took a 250 mile trip in it and it was like a different car - sure ehte ECO light was going on and off but I no longer sensed the changes in the engine cylinder operation. Then again, all highway driving 70-75 - rolling - not entirely flat - got 24.5 MPG. Maybe it was operating on 6 cylinders all;the time? :confuse: :) All I know is that it was smooth as silk like those here who say it is unnoticeable, yet before this trip I was absolutely in the problem corner. Mayeb the Active Engine Mounts had to get broken in? Perhaps they were too stiff before and not moving to compensate for the vibrations? All I know is that I can sympathize with those with the vibrations, etc. I agree with you 1000% It absolutel DOES exist in these cars - mine seems to have fixed itself! :) Lord knows how but I can actually enjoy the car and now understand the other side of the coin and those who have reported no problems. I suspect, based on my experience that the issues have to do with the AEMs and not the VCM itself. Those having problems? Ask to have your AEMs checked out and make sure they are moving as they should or should be able to.

    That said,the mileage was disappointing. Nowhere hear what we would get with our 2004 Accord V6 Coupe AT - closer to 30 over the same road and distance. But that is what happens when you gain weight - this car is 300 pounds heavier and I suspect its CD is greater than the '04 Coupe.
  • jusvisitnjusvisitn Member Posts: 9
    That depends on what forum you happen to be on. On some other forums flickering headlights are a major irritation, and VCM is not even mentioned.

    Flickering headlights = 4 cylinder Accords which has no VCM

    That's why VCM not mentioned.

    -------------------------------------------------------

    My question: Why are professional car reviewers not scoring negative points on Accord's VCM idiocyncrasies?

    Are they letting it slide because Eco designed cars have these behaviors and hence they maybe classify it as 'normal' (similar to battery assist Eco cars?). If that is the case, their ratings are not objective (comparing to non-Eco cars), especially from someone like Consumer Reports. Is the Accord's green eco light a placebo effect strategy to enhance the driver's acceptance of the VCM quirk, so car owners think they are contributing to the Enviro-friendly cause? Just playing 'Devil's Advocate'.

    I test drove Malibu & Camry at dealers. They are all verrry nice :) . Just getting a sense how these brand new cars feel. Accord may be the very last ones to test drive and then I can compare with others.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Flickering headlights = 4 cylinder Accords which has no VCM

    That's why VCM not mentioned.


    The thread I am referring to is titled "08 Accord problems", which in my mind means ANY problems. The majority of the complaints are about the 4 cylinder Accord's flickering headlights. There is a sperate thread titled "08 Accord flickering headlights", and it is about as lengthy as the VCM thread here. This forum (Edmunds) seams to be the only forum where VCM is the MAJOR issue. Birds of a feather, flock together I suppose. If someone does an Internet search for VCM problems, they will most likely end up here on Edmunds. If they do a search on flickering headlights, other forums will likely be the result.
  • parvizparviz Member Posts: 484
    "...got 24.5 MPG. Maybe it was operating on 6 cylinders all;the time?..."

    I don't know if your car was operating all on V6 or not, but take a look at the MPG thread. Most posts are better than what you experienced. Myself, have been getting around 30 mpg on FWY trips (and higher on straight flat runs, up to 36). I did notice the mpg got better over time. I've had mine for about 4 months with a little over 4000 miles on it. Also, check under the hood, I noticed about a month ago that the air intake hose was not placed on top of the intake opening (I don't know how much effect, if any, that would have), but apparently it was overlooked by the dealer during PDI.
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Member Posts: 374
    Thanks - I will check out the hose - as for the mileage? I agree - I expect it wil get better too since the car seems to be taking awhile to break in. Just reporting in with my experiences.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    You can continue this in the Accord I4 vs V6 discussion. This one is exclusively for VCM concerns.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    This is not the right thread to debate your choices. As you know, we're talking about VCM concerns here. Please check the list in the Accord group for a more appropriate discussion. Thanks!
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Member Posts: 374
    Read through the thread - there are cites to the Wall Street Journal, Auto Week, and other reviewers who experienced the sensations many here described and that I too experienced with the VCM. Thankfully mine have stopped but I don't think it can be said that the reviewers have been hodiing back.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    The Wall Street Journal was the only review that had a real negative remark about the VCM operation (said it was "maddening behavior"). The other two reviews only mentioned that they noticed something, and didn't say it was particularly objectionable. I am very interested in what the Edmunds long term test update will have to say about VCM. I sent Edmunds an e-mail asking when the update will be available.
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