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Honda Accord VCM

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Comments

  • jebinc1jebinc1 Member Posts: 198
    +1 I totally agree with your assessment of the situation.
  • sunnfunsunnfun Member Posts: 168
    Have not heard a word and I am extremely disappointed to this point. I thought at the very least they would have pushed it down and I would hear from my case mgr or the like. Nothing. Can't say I'm suprised, just extremely disappointed.

    On a seperate note, I am now having a problem with one of the rear speakers vibrating when music plays so there will have to be another trip to the dealer. It can be easily reproduced so I am not worried about getting it fixed. It's just that I have to spend more time on this car. I have read about others with the same issue so someone missed the QA boat on these.
  • rbbrickrbbrick Member Posts: 37
    I have a 2008 Accord EX-L V6 Coupe, 2200 miles, at 1936 miles the engine light started flashing while driving at about 70 mph it continued to flash and the ECO light would not come on. After I left the freeway and stopped the engine ran very rough I suspect it was trapped in 3or4 cylinder mode, got home very concerned. Turned off the engine and restarted the engine light disappeared and everything was back to normal for a VCM system. Went directly to the dealer to get any codes NONE recorded!?? This happened a second time driving down the freeway had to pull off and restart the engine - cleared the issue. Took the vehicle to another dealer for a code check Nothing Recorded, dealer said best to bring in while the engine light is on! So do I drive only between the hours of 8am to 5pm so I can bring it in? What a farse! Anyone have these symptoms?? I live in San Jose CA area thanks in advance.
    Roger
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Member Posts: 374
    The more I read these posts the more fearful I become. My car having "cured" itself of the VCM surging and vibrations, I wonder - what next? Are these cars too complicated? Did they heit the streets too soon before all the bugs were worked out? Excessive road noise, higher fuel consumption, compasses that do not work, navi systems all messed up, check engine light coming on with the engine seemingly "stuck" in 3 or 4 cylinder operation but then never recording a hard code, seemingly incurable vibrations, oil leaks with less than 100 miles on the car - these are simply things that, in my experience with Hondas over many years, just simply do not happen.
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Member Posts: 374
    sunnfunn -

    Before my car fixed itself, I had written to American Honda Customer Service and the president of American Honda, with copies to the New York State Attorney General and the Federal Trade Commission outlining my problems, referencing others on this website with problems, and the quotes from American Honda's webpage about the VCM being seamless and unnoticeable, along with all the references to all the raod tests where it had been noticed as NOT seamless and unnoticeable. I got their attention - I have a phone call to return about the car. I will let you know what I am told sunnfun - and everyone else.
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Member Posts: 374
    See post #1 in 2008 Honda Accord Repair and Maintenance - someone else had the same problem diagnosed as the fuel pump. Hope that helps you.
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Member Posts: 374
    Here you go -

    #2 of 285 2008 Accord Sedan V6 Engine Problem by burningedge Oct 25, 2007 (7:03 pm) Save | Reply
    I bought a new Accord on Fri. 10/19. When I was driving to work on Mon. 10/22 the car started sputtering and lurching. It had 50 something miles on it. When I turned the car off and restarted it, the engine check light came on and the ECO light would no longer come on, though the car was driveable at that point. Brought the car in and they are working on it.

    Update: the problem has been diagnosed as a defective fuel pump. I have to wait a week for a new fuel pump.
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Member Posts: 374
    #11 of 285 Re: 2008 Accord Sedan V6 Engine Problem [burningedge] by burningedge Oct 27, 2007 (9:19 am) Save | Reply
    Replying to: burningedge (Oct 25, 2007 7:03 pm)

    Oops. I meant defective OIL pump. Seems too much oil was being pumped into the engine causing valves to remain open when they shouldn't be.

    Replies to this message:
    aviboy97 (Oct 29, 2007 12:09 pm)
    burningedge (Oct 31, 2007 9:44 pm)
    bug4 (Nov 01, 2007 8:29 am)
  • sunnfunsunnfun Member Posts: 168
    Thanks for the info.
  • golfrskigolfrski Member Posts: 262
    I am very very interested in this... you and i are dealing with identicle issues. I did not contact the State Attny buut will now.. please keep us updated and I really appreciate your courage to share whats going on so that i as well as others may benifit here... we are still in Honda VCM hell.........

    Golf
  • dpmeersmandpmeersman Member Posts: 275
    The following link is to an April 21,2008 article in the Boston Globe in which a woman who traded a 2005 Audi A6 claims her Accord with cylinder deactivation is the smoothest engine she has ever owned.

    http://www.boston.com/cars/news/articles/2008/04/21/power_on_demand/

    I recently put about 400 hwy miles on my 08-V6 this past weekend and while the VCM was extremely active and making it's presence known, I wasn't that annoyed by it, although my wife inquired for the first time as a passenger what I was doing with the cruise control that she could feel. I informed her that that wasn't me just Honda's engineers seamlessly conserving fuel for us. To which she commented that seamlessly, like so many other words in the english language, must have taken on new meanings. I will say that I saw 32 MPG on my first leg of the trip and 29 MPG on the last leg, so what complaints I may have, they can't be about fuel economy.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    my wife inquired for the first time as a passenger what I was doing with the cruise control that she could feel. I informed her that that wasn't me just Honda's engineers seamlessly conserving fuel for us. To which she commented that seamlessly, like so many other words in the english language, must have taken on new meanings.

    Haha... I was about to say, if it was seemless, how'd she know?
  • golfrskigolfrski Member Posts: 262
    ditto
  • rbbrickrbbrick Member Posts: 37
    Thank you all for the posts I continue to work with Honda to find the root cause. Since the flashing engine light is not recorded this will be a tough one to find. We assume it will become more frequent allowing me to get it to the dealer while it occurs.
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Member Posts: 374
    I just stumbled on the post in repairs and thought of you and your incidents. Good luck resolving your issues.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    That comment of yours explaining to your wife that what she was feeling was simply "Honda's engineers seemlessly conserving fuel for us" is one great line!

    ROTFLMAO!!! :)
  • holewholew Member Posts: 71
    I took delivery on a 2008 EX-L V6 in Dec 2007. Before I decided on the V6 I noticed several messages about an osculation issue with the V6. So I test drove the V6 an did not notice any problem. The engine was very smooth. The only indication I had about the VCM was the ECO light on the dash.

    Recently while driving on a smooth flat road in Florida with cruise control set at 40 or 41 mph I noticed a faint osculation of the engine. Looking at the tachometer I noticed that it was jumping about 100 rpm. I believe it was at 1500 rpm and then it would go to 1600 rpm and back again as if it war searching for a proper setting. When I adjusted the cruise control to 45 MPH the osculation disappeared. At speeds above 45 mph there is no osculation.

    The engine is running smooth at all speeds even when the osculation occurs. The osculation is almost undetectable. My wife doesn't notice it at all.

    The car has about 5000 miles on it and I have not had it back to the dealer yet.
  • holewholew Member Posts: 71
    Don't feel all that bad about having to replace a timing belt. Yes, it is expensive and with the price of cars today one wonders why the engine doesn't come with a more durable timing CHAIN. But guess what, even the LS430 and 460 Lexus sedans which cost over 60K have timing belts. which require an expensive replacement at about 110K miles.

    My 2008 EX-L V6 was delivered on 27 Dec 08. For the first 5000 miles the VCM didn't show any of the characteristics of surging or osculation which have been described on this forum many time since the VCM V6 came out. I was aware of this issue before I took delivery of the V6 and I mentioned to the dealer prior to ordering the EX with the V6. In Dec 07 the dealer's service dept had no complaints of surging.

    For several months I have had the EX V6 I have not noticed any surging until this month, April 2008. While driving on a flat, straight road in Florida with the cruise control set on 40 or 41 mph I noticed an osculation. Checking the tachometer I noticed it was fluctuating 100 rpm between 1500 and 1600 RPM as if the VCM system was searching for a proper setting. When I adjusted the cruise control to 45 mph the osculation disappeared and at speeds above 45 mph there is no osculation. The engine is smooth at all speeds even when the osculation occurs. The osculation is so faint that my wife does not notice it and most people won't
  • golfrskigolfrski Member Posts: 262
    ljgbjg any updates you can share?? I filed a complaint with the California BBB and also sent complaints to the FTC and State Attny. Nothing yet

    Golf
  • rbbrickrbbrick Member Posts: 37
    The issue has not reoccurred in the last 300 miles, when it does and we are able to get the hard code then I will know what is going on. I will keep you all posted.
    Roger
  • jebinc1jebinc1 Member Posts: 198
    I picked up my EX-L V6 w/navi and Tuesday (2 miles on the ODO) and have not noticed any of the issues reported by the few who have here. Let's hope it stays that way! ;)
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Member Posts: 374
    NYS Atttorney General forwarded my letter to the NHTSA. :sick:
    I will follow up with them indicating that I was not writing about a safety issue. Seem to have gotten sloughed off by them. Have gotten two calls from Honda - tried calling rep back but not there. Will try again today. The thing is - my problems have disappeared so if someone were to drive the car now, it doesn't do anything noticeable any more - so it is in conformity with Honda's advertising.
    Really sorry sunnfun and golfrski- like I said, poof - one day it just stopped giving me any problems. I am happy of course, but sorry I may not be able to of any help to you.
  • rscharscha Member Posts: 12
    I have had my car for nearly 2 months and have not had any problems, in fact it drives great and the mileage is better than the 29 stated on the window now that it is almost broken in. The problems here seem to be isolated to a few unfortunate people. BTW I was between this car the Camry and the Malibu, the Camry board has even more complaints about a transmission problem and the Malibu one has some issues too.
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Member Posts: 374
    Well, my problems have gone away but the mileage still stinks compared to '07 V6.
    All around is about 22-23, highway 25-26 at 70-75 MPH. Very disappointing. Wish it had a 6th gear or taller overdrive.
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Member Posts: 374
    Latest from Edmunds re MPG on '08 V6 with VCM:
    Three months and 4,200 miles have passed since we last updated our long-term Honda Accord’s fuel log. High time we gave you the digits, no?

    Our lifetime average is 21.1 mpg, so we’re still not quite hitting the EPA’s estimate of 22 mpg for combined driving, despite my husband’s determination to keep the green ECO dash light lit during a stint behind the wheel this weekend.

    Our best tanks are generally in the mid 20s, worst tanks drop into the 16-17 range. We've used 436.1 gallons of fuel and have driven it more than 9,000 miles since we took ownership of the Accord last fall.

    Bryn MacKinnon, Senior Editor, Edmunds.com @ 11,263 miles
  • jam1000jam1000 Member Posts: 182
    I know this belongs in the mileage discussion, but just to round out the topic, my own experience is that mileage varies greatly depending on whether I'm using the auto temp feature (bad) or keeping that off and using windows (better). I don't think we've switched from the ethanol mixture to plain old gas in our region; if so, my understanding is that that would also improve mileage to some degree.

    All told, I don't think I'm getting the claimed mileage, though I haven't done the math.
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Member Posts: 374
    Well, the hosts may disagree, but because the main purpose of even having the VCM feature is for the V6 to be more economical, the fuel economy experiences of owners with VCM would seem perfectly appropriate here. I have no objection! :)
  • edmund2460edmund2460 Member Posts: 293
    I looked up Osculate in
    Wiktionary, the free dictionary.Osculate is a semi-archaic English word with several definitions.

    Often it means "to kiss", sometimes used in a "tongue-in-cheek" fashion.
    Its primary definition is "to bring, or come into, close contact of union".
    In mathematics, it means "to touch so as to have a common tangent at the point of contact". See osculating circle, osculating curve, and osculating orbit.

    Do you have a kissing engine??
  • dpmeersmandpmeersman Member Posts: 275
    I'm sure he meant oscillate, which might be used to describe the feeling of VCM. As you look through various online forums it's not unusual to see the use of the English language becoming more and more massacred. Not sure if it's due to the increasing use of text messaging or those that are just new to it, but what ever it is I'm surprised I still have a full head of hair as I frequently scratch my head trying to accurately asses what a poster is trying to imply.
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Member Posts: 374
    Yeah, I picked up on that too but chose to ignore it. We all make mistakes - I like to think I am pretty well educated in grammar with a fairly extensive vocabulary, unlike our friend, but certainly there are other areas where I lack in expertise. The difference? I don't go there! :P , or if I am going to attempt to use a word with which I am not completely familiar, I look it up first. :shades:
  • rbbrickrbbrick Member Posts: 37
    I now have 3200 miles on the Accord since the last engine at 2K miles it has not occurred since. Self healing software? Self healing engine - I will continue to post but like others have experienced "it healed it self". I have noticed oil consumption of 3/4 quart since new.
    Roger
  • cstilescstiles Member Posts: 465
    Personally, I do not feel that 22-23 avg and 25-26 freeway MPG as being that bad at all. MPG will also improve as the car is broken in. I challenge everyone to name one full size automobile with nearly 270 horsepower and 0-60 times in the high 6-second range to average that kind of gas mileage. If you are cruising continously without AC and with VCM, this car is capable of averaging 27-29 mpg. The new Accord is noticeably larger than the previous generation Accord. This car boasts interior space in range of the Toyota Avalon and full size Buicks, yet it handles more like a BMW, Maxima, or equivalent, even with it's vastly compromised/inferior Michelin Pilot MXM tires.

    Every car is a compromise, and the current Accord has seemingly straddled the line between competing and opposing virtues. And VCM helps it achieve that end.
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Member Posts: 374
    No argument from me - I said the mileage "still stinks compared to 2007 model". Yes, the car is bigger and heavier - and that is where the other 24 horses go - the car is no quicker than before - you need the power because of the size and weight.

    And I have gotten better highway mileage from GM V8's because they loaf along at 40mph/1000 RPM in top gear. If you look at the Motor Trend Sedan comparison of the Accord, Altima, Camry and Malibu, the Accord was the only engine turning 2100 RPM at 60 MPH. the Malibu? 1600 RPM That gives the Honda 28.5mph/1000 rpm, the Malibu 37.5 MPH/1000 RPM meaning that at 75 the Malibu is turning 2000 RPM versus the Accord turning 2600+ RPMs. I still say a taller overdrive would have been more effective in accomplishing three things (1)improving highway mileage better than the VCM while being a whole lot simpler and potentially less troublesome (2) less noise (3) less wear and tear on the engine.
  • cstilescstiles Member Posts: 465
    Totally agree---no question that a higher overdrive or offering 6 speeds on the slushbox would improve gas mileage, smoothness, comfort, at some greater expense, as well.

    As I see it, here is Honda's dilemma----they have to maximize sales of the Accord, as well as not cannibalize sales of the Acura TSX and TL. If they make the Accord too nice in terms of styling, engineering, and comfort, no one would pay another $4000 to $7000 for the Acura. These cars are not that different under the skin, so they have to differentiate (and keep costs down) by holding back on how nice the Accord could be.

    Same deal with the Pilot vs. MDX. These vehicles are very similar mechanically. When I saw photos of the new Pilot, my first reaction was "UGLY," but then if it's too nice, why buy the MDX?

    It will be interesting to see if VCM will be offered on the soon-to-be-released TL. I assume that it will be, since they've already announced that the next RL V8 will have it. The other differentiator with Acura might also be offering "super handling" all wheel drive options, which we probably won't see with Honda sedans.

    Honda is rolling the dice big time in terms of reliance on VCM as a unique and differentiating technology.
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Member Posts: 374
    I weighed the decision between the TL and the Accord very carefully. In the end the there were really only four decisive factors in favor of the Honda:
    Regular gas vs. premium
    More rear seat leg room - occasionally have our 6'4" or 6'5" sons in the back seat
    More trunk space
    Many negative reviews of the TL by owners with lots of rattle problems

    That said, I much preferred the sound system in the TL, and I do think it is sportier looking.

    I cannot figure out Honda/Acura marketing strategy as you say - the Accord sales have to be cannibalizing the TL sales, and aside from the all wheel drive and a higher level of quality in fit and finish, RL too - compare the new Accord with the RL - I believe they are built on the same platform. For the difference in price? Aside from the all wheel drive and status it seems like a no brainer - so long as the VCM is reliable and mechanically sound. :P
  • bug4bug4 Member Posts: 370
    I once had a long, rather formal ( :surprise: ) discussion in Torrence, CA with a Japanese engineer for Honda. We were talking seat belts. But, we discussed general design theory at Honda. From that discussion, I gathered that Honda assigns development teams with a task - make the very best car you can, given this development money and this price tag. Of course, its not that simple. But, when it comes to Acura TL v. Honda Accord, I have the impression that Honda doesn't take things off the Accord just to make the TL more marketable. Rather, they simply allow the TL team a higher selling price - which in turn gives them more leeway for higher end equipment. If the Accord team develops a better product, I don't think there is any way that Honda "detunes" it to make the TL better. Rather, I think the TL team gets fired!
  • golfrskigolfrski Member Posts: 262
    I think this forum is "specifically" to discus the challenges and experiences with VCM most importantly issues with the Honda Accord 08 V^6VCM. Not its intended design or by product of promised gas mileage. I think those that would like to talk gas mileage should discuss in the mileage thread to keep the discussions focused.

    btw, my VCM is still as hyper and maddening as ever.

    Golf-
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    spelling and grammar (which would be on-topic in ANY topic here), sometmes we just do not type as well as we speak, so we have misspellings, and omitted words, simply because it takes too much time to re-read every word, and these are not legal briefs we are writing, but simple comments and questions/answers...

    Imagine if we all used the 200-plus abbreviations that kids use for text messaging...I would sign out forever...
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    We have previously established that we can discuss gas mileage as it relates to the VCM function in this topic.
  • cstilescstiles Member Posts: 465
    I happen to work for the automotive safety design and research dept of a major U.S. auto insurance company, and last year had the opportunity to visit Honda in Tochigi, Japan. We met with several marketing and engineering representatives. This was a forum that also included engineers from Toyota, Nissan, and Mazda. The point of the meeting was for them to showcase latest safety and engineering design, ultimately to secure lower U.S. insurance rates for their models sold here.

    Part of the forum was focused on fuel economy (including VCM), but obviously with oil prices being what they are, and with the heavy investment in ethanol in the US, the Japanese are hard at work developing new ways to squeeze more MPG out of every gallon of fuel. Although Honda is in the lead with cylinder deactivation, other Japanese companies are evaluating VCM-type options, alongside CVT, alternative fuels, hybrids, and other options. Not surprisingly, Honda talked the most about VCM, while Toyota was more focused on hybrid technology, Nissan about CVT and other "intelligent" driving technology that helps maximizes safety and lower fuel usage. Mazda is a smaller player, and offered few new advancements beyond smaller displacement motors.

    VCM is not necessarily a long term solution for Honda (just as hybrid technology is not a long term solution for Toyota due to battery issues). They are very focused on hydrogen fuel cells and plug-in electric options that reduce reliance on fossil fuels. Weight is the enemy of fuel efficiency, so everyone is focused on getting cars smaller and lighter, without compromising safety.

    Back to the original question....Honda offers VCM all over the world. They believe in it, and sell it under different brand names. Even in Japan, the VCM-equipped sedan is not the Accord, but it's called the (more upmarket) Vigor. Honda plans to sell the Acura brand in markets outside the U.S. in the future. Even though those engineers in Torrence may have told you that Acura design is supported separately from Honda design, at the end of the day, Honda as the parent company is very focused on selling a balance of each model within one cohesive marketing and dealership strategy.

    I would not be surprised if 5 years from now, Honda stops offering VCM (just as they've quickly abandoned hybrid offerings in the Accord line). This technology is a temporary step in a long term evolution that will culminate with heavier reliance on alternative fuels (probably hydrogen if infrastructure and heavy petroleum industry lobbying can be overcome). Long term, Honda would also just as much prefer to sell more 3 and 4-cylinder powerplants rather than 6 or 8 cylinders. What's sold in the US market is different from what is typically demanded in other parts of the world. What China and India demand in the next decade will heavily influence what we get here, as well.

    So, VCM is a bandaid over the long run and is likely not a true solution.
  • sfuadsfuad Member Posts: 15
    I am driving a 2007 ES 350 which I bought last April. I have 21000 miles on it with an average of 27.2 miles. The car is 272 hp with 0 - 60 around 6.8 sec. On interstate with an average cruise speed of 65, it gives 33 -34 mpg and with 75 mph cruise it gives me 31 mpg. Can accord even with VCM beat that?
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    I don't know, but since this is neither a comparo nor a general topic, let me ask you to find a better place to pose that question. ;)
  • bug4bug4 Member Posts: 370
    Interesting post cstiles!
  • ezshift5ezshift5 Member Posts: 858
    ....... On interstate with an average cruise speed of 65, it gives 33 -34 mpg and with 75 mph cruise it gives me 31 mpg. Can accord even with VCM beat that?


    ......Yes, yes and yes (details in MPG section)

    ez....
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I challenge everyone to name one full size automobile with nearly 270 horsepower and 0-60 times in the high 6-second range to average that kind of gas mileage.

    Toyota Avalon, Ford Taurus. Well, the Avalon does low 6s, so maybe it doesn't count. :P
  • manybmwsmanybmws Member Posts: 347
    10 year old BMWs can do that :)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I don't know any 10 year old full-size Bimmers that can do that (740i). Notice they said "full size automobile" :)
  • rbbrickrbbrick Member Posts: 37
    This forum is about Honda's not BMW join the Beemer forum
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