Honda Accord VCM

cstiles · July 2008

I realize you may perceive it differently, but speaking for myself, it is not arrogance or "know it allness," but instead a genuine curiosity and desire to understand what is a unique and interesting phenomenon. Nearly 1,750 posts into this topic, we are no closer to having an answer. Ironically, even those who hate VCM don't agree on what is going on. Descriptions of the problem, along with opinions about what is going on, are not consistent.

You stated that the surging (VCM) had nothing to do with your transmission (grade logic). Yet, both systems independently fixed themselves on their own without any explanation. You've also suggested that these systems are too complex for even Honda service departments to understand or diagnose. I respectfully disagree. The system is not so complex that this will remain a black hole forever. Any surging or bucking sensation is directly attributable to one or more of the components within the driveline, or software tied to the ECM or equivalent.

Or, it could be partially or totally explained by driver behavior.

Just as people prefer brands and designs, people also drive cars differently. If we were to ask each of the drivers who either love or hate VCM to tell us about themselves or driving variables, certain patterns will emerge that may help explain what is going on. Questions along these lines are not intended to downplay the issue, or question the credibility or veracity of their experiences. They are merely posed in an effort to understand what is going on.

Finally, sprinkle in the various stories from Accord owners who say their cars are operating normally, and you have the recipe for a wide open debate.

None of this is personal, or should be taken in that light. At no time have I questioned or downplayed your experiences. But I do admit to trying to understand and reconcile your experiences in an effort to not repeat it if I ever own a VCM-equipped Honda.

ljgbjg · July 2008

cstiles - "...but instead a genuine curiosity and desire to understand what is a unique and interesting phenomenon.'

That is certainly understandable and of interest to all of us who own VCM equipped cars. What I do not appreciate is someone who has merely test driven a car or two suggesting that what we are experiencing is a transmission holding a gear too long, or that , using the guy with the Lincoln Town car and the MKX as an example, that we are merely having to adjust to a new car - this when my car demonstrated its behavior while on cruise control at 65-70 (hardly while changing gears), so noticeably that the sensation made my wife car nauseous. THAT I consider insulting to every mature experienced car owner here. Please...I think the real issue with VCM is that it is so complicated, there are so many "moving components" that any one or a combination of them not functioning 100% will result in the problems I and others have had with our cars, while I understand the majority of owners, judging by the informal statistical representation here, have had none. I consider myself very fortunate - my car stopped doing it at a little over 3000 miles. Considering that. to the best of our knowledge, the service departments have never diagnosed a problem with any one of our cars, its "curing itself" will forever remain as much a mystery as why the others haven't.

dpmeersman · July 2008

My car, like yours, has improved dramatically over the last several months, which also coincides with the warmer New England weather. I'm wondering if that is coincidental or related. Time will tell. Some will tell you that life is to short to be worrying all the time, but that is my nature. So with skyrocketing heating bills on the horizon, in the back of my mind I'll also be looking out for that occasional out of place feeling that was VCM. At least in my case it was only mildly noticeable, not as objectionable as others have experienced.

graphicguy · July 2008

lj....certainly didn't intend to torque you off. Just relaying experiences with other vehicles using similar technology to the VCM that Hondas use. As I said, my Tahoe had the same symptoms with cylinder activation/deactivation with GM's multi-displacement technology. And, like many have reported, it cleared up all on its own after driving it for awhile.

Relaying what the Lincoln MKZ owner felt was not intended to be a criticism. Just relaying how expectations may play a roll in how some perceive their car maladies.

I only offered my theories about what's going on. In no way did I mean to diminish you or your experience.

pat · July 2008

Guys,

We're here to talk about the VCM in the new Accord. It's okay to offer theories and opinions about the VCM and we should all be careful not to take other peoples' opinions personally. We also must avoid making personal attacks.

If you have a theory that differs from someone else's, please feel free to offer it. But leave off the attacks on the person with whom you are disagreeing.

Thank you for your cooperation.

viet1 · July 2008

OK.

dpmeersman · July 2008

As a V6 Accord owner that has VCM I've welcomed the theories presented here and feel the value I've gained thru our various discourse would be diminished if we are left to only a handful of posters whose thoughts are along the same vein. I have not been insulted by any posts here nor do I feel I need to be defended. We are adult and educated enough to embrace the thoughts of others that we feel have value and to discard the rest. I for one would miss the diversity of dialogue that has so far been set fourth on these pages and would hope that the same tired ramblings of a select few aren't all I'm going to find on these pages in the future.

graphicguy · July 2008

dp.....only reason I'm here is that the Accord V6 w/VCM is on my short list of cars I'm thinking of buying. I'm trying to ascertain whether there's an issue with the VCM. Or, if it's something I've experienced before in a vehicle with similar technology (which turned out not to be an issue after driving it for a while).

I like Honda products. I've owned an Acura in the past and found it to be another example of good Honda engineering and build quality.

Several years ago, Honda had some bad transmissions that went into their cars. Not a lot, but enough that it caused quite a ruckus here at Edmunds.

Like you, I'd rather hear and discuss what, if any, issues there might be regarding the VCM. If it's a perception issue, maybe a technology that takes some getting used to, or one that takes a little more understanding about how it works, then I'm not concerned.

But, if it's something that Honda engineering doesn't have a handle on, then my choices might be influenced about whether to consider the car.

I test drove an Altima coupe last night. It has another "different" technology with the CVT transmission. I wanted to like it. But, compared to the Accord (V6) coupe, Nissan can learn a lot about refinement, ride/handling trade-off, materials, and build from Honda. That said, the Altima was a fun drive. So is the Accord. But, the Honda trumps the Altima, IMHO, in just about every other category. Can't deny how good the Nissan V6 is, however.

dpmeersman · July 2008

I guess I really didn't give Nissan a fair shake. While I did test drive an 08 Altima V6 sedan my mind was closed to the CVT. A few mfg's have had CVT's in their lineup only to abandon them after a while, Ford and Subaru come to mind. I felt this would be the path that Nissan would take. Boy was I wrong! I believe this is their AT of choice across their lineup. And the reviews coming in on the 09 Maxima indicate the tranny has gotten even better. But I agree that the level of detail on all other facets of the Honda were better. Fortunately for me my VCM at it's worst would feel like the transmission was shifting into another gear, nothing more nothing less. My fuel economy has been within the range of the EPA estimates and occasionally a little better on the hwy. Recently I've been hearing a few more rattles and noises I'd rather not hear in my car and began to question the build quality of my Accord. But after clearing out all the items I'd accumulated over the last 10 months my car was as I remembered it to be when I first pulled out of the dealers lot, nice and tight. I've said it several times in past post's, I would by this car again, it's not without it's occasional quirks, but move over to some of the BMW posts and you'll find people commenting about things they don't like and their investment is a lot steeper then mine.

graphicguy · July 2008

dp.....through rental cars (Maximas) and my test drive of the Altima, the CVT is just another "quirky" piece of tech. Nissan tries to simulate it shifting gears, but that's pretty hokey in my opinion. My opinion of the Altima hasn't changed. Interior seems stark next to the Accord (and the Altima I drove was the V6 with all the bells and whistles, including Nav. It still left me a bit cold.

I test drove another V6 Accord fairly thoroughly (just dropped it off at the dealership).....in town, highway, stop and go, full throttle, light throttle.

The one thing I noticed was its ability to discern between going down hill (and holding a gear for compression braking), and its ability to seem to always find the right gear, being quick to "kick down" when I pushed the "go pedal" further down. It is different, if you aren't used to transmissions in other cars, but not in a bad way.

Tried to notice the VCM, but couldn't. Aside from the "ECO" light, I couldn't tell when cylinder activation and deactivation happened. I even went so far as to ask the dealership service dept if they'd had complaints about the VCM. Don't know how truthful they would be, given the Honda dealership signs their checks, but they said "no".

So, I'm relatively at ease that the issues I'm hearing about here are isolated. No less frustrating for those who have had them, but still seems isolated.

leroym · August 2008

I completely agree with latest posts welcoming all theories re VCM. I do understand that some (maybe relatively few?) posters have had serious and very aggravating problems. I agree with host that when someone posts alternate theories, they are not demeaning the folks having problems. In my case, I purchased an 08 EX-L with V6 in Oct 2007 (one of the first to hit the streets) and have been entirely satisfied with it. I do not feel it shifting to 3 or 4 cyl mode but do notice the light which helps me drive more economically. I feel maybe a very slight change when it goes to 6 cyl mode. (almost like a very smooth downshift) but I know it is not as the RPM does not change. I regularly get the EPA listed mileages and get 30 mpg if I drive at 60 on level roads. Know this may not be as great as some past Hondas, but am well satisfied as this is a pretty big roomy car. I have driven Nissan demos for many years (was part owner of a dealership) and this Honda is the best car I have owned.

viet1 · August 2008

No VCM (surge) problem ever. Best top Accord 268 HP, 249 ft/ lbs torque. It runs beautifully like a SUPER CHAMP, 30+ MPG freeway, 26+ MPG mixed driving. Who asks for more? I did not buy the Acura TL but bought this '08 EX-L V6 w/ Navi instead. Falling in love with it every second.

cgyfireman · August 2008

I've had my Accord for almost 3 weeks and 1000 k and I've yet to notice any VCM problems,as Honda states it is seemless.

To think I almost didn't by an Accord because of a few on here.

The Accord is a great car,if there's a problem with the VCM I certainly haven't noticed it.

Buy one,you won't be disappointed.

golfrski · August 2008

Lucky you......

northcoastohio · August 2008

I am a new owner of a EX-L V6 navi, and, after reading a number (a lot really) of posts had some questions in regard to the "break in" preiod of the VCM engine. I also looked it up in the Owner's Manual and asked the dealer about suggestions.

For some reason I would think that the variability in this engine would take longer to break-in. Thoughts? Some of the posts indicate that the engine seems to "surge" at times, moreover, other have stated that the symptoms have gone away after some time... "Engine Break-in period?"

For the record I have not noticed any issues with my car. Time will tell. I do have a 30 min commute to work (both highway and city). I have taken one extended (3 hrs) drive up and back on I-71 (in Ohio) that was mentioned by another poster with a potential concern. I did not experience any issues, but, I'll get to test that every time I visit family.

Just wanted to get some input on break-in, and, what to look for....

Thanks.

elliott2 · August 2008

I would not recommend the 2008 Honda Accord V6 to anyone. In addition to the steering shimmy, the engine feels like it is misfiring when it is in 3 cylinder mode. Although the engine is rated at higher horsepower than the previous model, it does not respond as quickly or smoothly (not sure why Honda felt compelled to mess up a good engine). Also annoying is the sloshing sound coming from the gas tank when there is three quarters to a full tank of gas when coming to a stop. The Honda factory rep told me that these are "normal characteristics" of the new Accord.

Driving at 35 to 40 mph is extremely annoying as the engine goes back and forth between 3 and 4 cylinder operation, making the car feel like it is accelerating even though the tach doesn't change speeds. At approximately 50 mph and above, the shimmy in the steering becomes more pronounced.

If there is anyone considering buying or leasing a 2008 Accord V6, do not. You should wait to see if Honda is able to address these flaws with the 2009 model.

elroy5 · August 2008

Obviously, not every 08 V6 (VCM) Accord owner is experiencing these problems. My suggestion to anyone thinking about buying one, is too thoroughly test drive the car you want, being aware of the issues some owners have, before you sign on the dotted line.

dpmeersman · August 2008

No misfiring or shimmy in mine. Not once have I heard any fuel sloshing sounds. I agree on the overall engine statement that the previous 6 was a smoother & far more refined power plant. The industry moves in increments. As the other mfg's engines were bumped to 3.5 ltr Honda responded in kind. Not to mention the need to move the additional weight around at the same pace as the competitors. In achieving that goal aspects that the car has been admired for have been lost. But a new audience seems to have been found if the sales numbers are any indication. I would have to think that most are mechanically sound or Honda will have a big headache on it's hands. They may be able to make the "normal characteristics" statement regarding what might be passed off by them as subjective interpretations of the vehicle they've produced. But get enough of them to shimmy and have other mechanical shortcomings or failures and their cash cow will fill dealers lots as word gets out, not a likely scenario for Honda.

golfrski · August 2008

AMEN

golfrski · August 2008

your assumption is every new 08 owner has found this forum.. i guess I will simply say that if this was not a more widespread concern, then why would Honda go so far as to revamp all their literature, marketing materials and websites last month, that had previously stated the VCM is "completely seamless" yet now magically its only "nearly seamless" in the new materials/info. the fact that this was done and a change to the glove box handle or some other component hasn't, is enough proof for me that this is a significant issue with 1st gen (at least) owners in my opinion..

dpmeersman · August 2008

Their changing a statement from completely seamless to nearly seamless can hardly be called a complete revamping of their marketing materials. Their corporate lawyers have probably told them that if your response to an owners questioning the not so seamless operation of VCM as being normal then it would be in Honda's interest to have marketing material reflect that. You can't market something as completely seamless and have a percentage of buyers questioning the validity of the statement and respond with Honda's mantra that it is operating within normal parameters. If your corporate stance is that this is normal change the advertising material to something close to completely seamless. Nearly seamless fits the bill in describing how mine works and satisfies the lawyers concern about misleading advertising, and misleading it was. Its unfortunate that this isn't how it was presented from the start. I don't believe that I would have been scared away from considering the 08 V6 had their campaign originally stated nearly seamless. Judging by recent sales numbers the current statement concerning the nearly seamless operation of VCM hasn't been turning away to many customers. Anyone know where you can find sales breakdown numbers? I'm curious what the breakdown would be in V6 and I4 numbers being sold, and how the mix would compare to previous years sales of 6's and 4's. I'm pretty sure with whats going on with gas prices and other areas of the economy that the 4's are far out pacing the 6's in sales. From what I've seen in 08 mpg's reported by most people, their is a lot of dissatisfaction with the 4's actual fuel economy, not a big difference between mpg's from both engines if a fair amount of city miles are in the mix. Honda's response to those complaining about their 4 cyl actual mpg's aren't what they expected is going to be...... are you ready...... IT'S OPERATING WITHIN THE NORMAL RANGE. At least this time they can point to the 21 mpg on the sticker to prove their point.

donegal · August 2008

Some information on Honda sales can be found at:

http://www.hondanews.com/categories/1090/releases/4649

gnome · August 2008

I'm glad I did not know of any "don't buy" observations about this coupe when I traded in my great low-mileage 2007 Accord V6 coupe last Oct.1. I would have missed 10 months of driving fun in a new, comfortable, powerful, handsome, problem-free and much-admired vehicle. I sympathize with those who have problems but I keep wondering how wide-spread the matters are. I subscribe to four automotive magazines and also follow car reviews in consumer publications, newspapers and online. It seems that the overall press reports of the 2008 models have been decidely positive. I find it hard to think I'm one of a very few lucky 2008 owners. Still, an unresolved VCM or other problem can torment.

golfrski · August 2008

I just read what I wrote and nowhere do I see "complete revamping of their marketing materials" simply "revamped".. your interpretation of my post is as inaccurate as hondas "Completely to nearly seamless" comparison I am afraid. Glad you like your VCM Operations and mileage results. Sounds like you dont have the same issues as some of us plagued here.

Golfr

golfrski · August 2008

move back in the posts you will find several publications including the WSJ that talk to the maddening VCM operation and vibration shimmy issues... who is to say how wide spread it is except to see Honda change the advertising, and look at how many 08 V6's have been for sale with less than 10K miles since Dec of last year.. many in my area......

thegraduate · August 2008

"then why would Honda go so far as to revamp all their literature, marketing materials and websites last month..."

Ok, so he wasn't word for word, but you do imply it there in post 1771.

elliott2 · August 2008

The steering problem is apparently more widespread than many think. This is not the only blog where customers are complaining. The saleman who sold me the car called me at home to tell me off the record that the dealership has received numerous calls (despite what the service dept. keeps saying).

golfrski · August 2008

its ONE BIG nightmare for me. I spoke to a guy tonight at a local restaurant in the parking lot with an 08 V6 same car as mine, color etc, no deviation at all and he was LIVID about his car.... same issues with the vibration/shimmy that WILL NOT go away and the dealer (he said) says its normal???? I mean cmon already this is not right... I sit here amazed that honda is not getting a TSB out there to fix this.. it makes zero sense to me as a long time accord owner.. how technically complicated could it be? I purchased a 2003 accord LX for my mother brand new and it shook like crazy at idle.. Honda came out with a anti vibration kit for the motor mounts and its now perfect...

golfrski · August 2008

can u direct us to the other sites?

mccomb · August 2008

When I move the gear selection lever from Park or Reverse to drive forward, I noticed that the gear shift lever stops at D3 (3rd Gear) not at D (5th Gear). I find this unusual as with most other cars with automatic transmissions you must move the lever and/or use a button/knob to chose a lower forward gear other High Gear. At times, I find myself going 65 miles an hour and the engine is turning over 3000 rpms all because I am in D3 and not in D. The Honda Dealer tells me this is the way that the Honda engineers designed the car.
Does anyone else notice that their 08 Accord stops at D3, or maybe, it is just my car that does this? If this is the way Honda designed their 2008 Accord, why would you want your car to default to stopping in D3 as oppossed to D?

I'd like to hear from other 2008 Accord owners who have a V-6 with an automatic transmission. Thanks for any help.

elroy5 · August 2008

I have the 03 V6 Automatic, but the shifter works the same way. A few times, when we first got the car, I went a little too far, and put the shifter in D3. After we got used to how far to pull the shifter back, it hasn't been a problem. I guess it's designed this way, so you can easily downshift (for extra power) without having to push the button on the shifter. I think you should be able to get a feel for the shifter after a while.

elliott2 · August 2008

Here's the Consumer Reports blog site for honda accord. It's quite long but interesting to read the same problems posted on this site:

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2007/10/honda-accord.html

elliott2 · August 2008

Honda managed to fall to 9th place in reliability by the J.D. Power ratings that were recently released; one point better than Jaguar.

thegraduate · August 2008

Are these the same JD Power ratings that had the late-90s Malibu (which has a poor track-record for reliability) near the top of the heap?

elliott2 · August 2008

I don't know how they ranked the late-90's Malibu, but Lexus is now at the top of the heap in many of the various categories.

golfrski · August 2008

How many of you are feeling the steering wheel or drivers seat "shimmy"/Vibration with this car when cold, having sat idle for a short time and especially at speeds 45-50MPH and most notably 62-71MPH I have always suffered this and curious how many others have it...makes for a miserable highway drive experience especially on road trips.

elroy5 · August 2008

Are these the same JD Power ratings that had the late-90s Malibu (which has a poor track-record for reliability) near the top of the heap?

Yes, the 97 Malibu was supposed to be the car that was "On par with the Asian rivals". Not even close. My father had one, and I know better. Consumer Reports also had the 2000 Malibu included in the "Reccomended" models. Obviously, it doesn't take much to impress these people. :confuse:

astro13 · August 2008

How long did it take for your VCM problem to disappear? I have noticed a slight problem, not the extreme surges like some others have experienced, but almost like the car is in between gears and can't decide what to do when cruising on the highway. I didn't notice this when I test drove the car before picking it up, but maybe I didn't test drive it long enough. After 2,000 miles it has gotten better, but still noticable at times. I find that the harsh downshifting at lower speeds sometimes is almost just as annoying. Is this part of the VCM problem or the Grade Logic transmission and will this improve over time?

golfrski · August 2008

VCM and it cannot be improved upon as is, I assume you have a 2008 Model year? Time will tell if Honda quietly improved the 09

jam1000 · August 2008

Exactly my symptoms. It is less noticeable after about 4,000 miles, but it could also be that I'm more used to it. It still remains annoying, though. It is without doubt the least smooth car I have ever had. Like sunnfun, I plan to get rid of mine in the next few months, when I have a better sense of what the market price is for it. A huge disappointment.

cgyfireman · August 2008

well hard to improve something when there isn't a problem.
The fear mongering on here almost caused me not to buy an Accord......would have been a huge mistake.

jhinsc · August 2008

I've read posts here that state how "maddening" it is to see this light indicator go on and off. When driving my 08 V6, I find once I get up to cruising speed, it stays on almost all the time. I've only had it 3 days so it might be another 4-5 days before I can check the mileage on my tank. I have not experienced anything unusual. Whether I'm going 25 or 65, the engine runs very smoothly. I'm happy so far!

pat · August 2008

Actually, I think we've established that there are some Accords that have a noticeable problem but that most don't. I'm glad yours is fine. :-)

jam1000 · August 2008

I was looking at the Honda website, and the 2009 info is up for the Accord. If I am reading it correctly, it appears that Honda has dropped Grade Logic from the Accord -- at least it does not seem to be advertised as a feature. I am wondering whether / how the Grade Logic plays into the VCM issues we've been discussing and why, if true, Honda decided to drop this feature.

thegraduate · August 2008

Considering that Grade Logic has been on Accords for well over a decade (my '96 has GLC), I'd be surprised if they dropped this feature.

dpmeersman · August 2008

Thanks for the heads up about the 09's on their site. Look closely and Grade Logic is still part of the package.

golfrski · August 2008

http://automobiles.honda.com/accord-sedan/performance.aspx

TransmissionsChoose a quick-shifting 5-speed manual transmission. Or opt for the available 5-speed automatic that features our Grade Logic Control system, which helps put an end to gear-hunting when climbing uphill or driving back down

jam1000 · August 2008

I missed it; thanks to all for flagging it.

Ironic that the Grade Logic is claimed to put an end to gear hunting when many (including myself) are complaining that one of the flaws with the VCM is that it causes a gear hunting sensation.

galvanni · August 2008

I'm experiencing a vibration in an VCM sedan mostly between 35 - 45 mph and 1500-2000 rpm. It feels like one of those small roadside emergency air compressors strapped somewhere inside the engine compartment. I have less than 600 miles on the car. Dealer says they took several cars out on the lot and they did the same thing. They acknowledged what I was feeling and said that what I was feeling was the active motor mounts. It's quite pronounced and there's no mistaken when it's on. They said Honda techline states no corrective action at this time.

I do not have the high speed shimmy vibration that others speak of though, and I don't notice the surging either - it's just this low speed vibration. I asked them to swap the motor mounts out. They said they would call me when they have a set of mounts to install. They told me that although they feel strongly that swapping the mounts wouldn't make a difference, they would do it for me anyway. Anyone else getting this specific problem?

I drove someone's coupe and it does the same thing, but it's nowhere near as noticeable as my sedan - his has over 5k on it now.

Is this the problem that others have stated has gotten better after a few thousand miles? I know my friend's car now has over

golfrski · August 2008

Are yu sure the vibration you are feeling is not coming from your seat and steering wheel? Also do you feel any vibration between speeds 62-71MPH with specific focus on 65 on the dot?? Dont think "shimmy" when you test, just look for vibration in the traditional sense like out of balanced tires....

Honda Accord VCM

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