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2009-2010 Hyundai Sonata

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Comments

  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    Maybe I would just pass on the Blueconnect if I wanted nav after all. With a cupholder or beanbag/friction mount type platforms for the nav dropped on top of the cupholders and the power port and aux input right there under the armrest (to play the portable nav's voice instructions, mp3 music saved on the nav and the phone audio over the car stereo speakers), it would only take 2 seconds to stow the gps out of sight when parking (just lift the armrest and hide the GPS there without even having to disconnect any cables).

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    If the built-in speakerphone microphone in the GPS isn't good enough for you, the Nuvis come with a mic input port so you could have an external mic installed around the sunvisors, headliner more easily and with less much cutting and modification than installing the blue connect.
    (see mic input in the cradle)image
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    The advantage of the having the bluetooth and GPS in one is that when you pull up a point of interest like a restaurant, you can just tap on it to call them to verify they're still open, at the same address listed in the POI directory and make a reservation if necessary.
    The Blueconnect and factory nav do not talk to each other.
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  • bill24060bill24060 Member Posts: 4
    To make a long story short I tried to buy a 2008 Hyundai sonata at a local dealer. I tried for two months to get them to come down on their price. I was buying it stright out. They would not come down 1 penny. They said they didn't have any lee way on them(whatever that means) anyway the MSRP was $22,470.00. This past Saturday I drove about 60 miles to another dealer and told them right out what I was trying to. To buy a car.After 5 hours I bought the same car for $18.400.00. It does pay to shop around. I'm now waiting for the first dealer to call me again to get me to buy their car. I'm going to ask them about the lee way.
  • colloquorcolloquor Member Posts: 482
    I know, it does get a little crazy with these early releases. With the Limited V6 now having a MSRP of over $26K, the entire sales paradigm is going to get interesting. My dealer was selling the new 2006 Sonata LX (predecessor to the Limited) for $17,750 before TTL (including applicable rebates). Certainly, it's technically not the same car with the old interior, and without the exterior "upgrades," and engine and chassis tweaks, but . . . we can certainly see the effects of the weak dollar, and perhaps, Hyundai's move up market price wise.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    Maybe those who have been ragging on the Sonata for "poor resale value" because the price new has been such a bargain will have to find a new story. Yes, it's true that resale value will decline proportionately when "new" sales prices are low.

    When "new" prices increase, the resale prices will increase proportinately. Personallly, I'd rather have the lowever upfront cost.

    We pais $17826 OTD for an '05 GLS SV (LTD except for leather & power seat) and $18,189 OTD for an '07 SE (last Feb). Both figures include 6% sales tax.
  • howard18howard18 Member Posts: 53
    The price for the '08 Sonata GLS w/ Auto is less than $15,000 now, do you think we can get the '09 Sonata GLS w/ Auto less than $15,000 later this year?
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    The '09 GLS w/ AT invoices just under $19,300, so you would need a combination of dealer discount and factory incentive totaling at least $4300 under invoice to get the price under $15,000.

    Town Hyundai, in NJ, is currently selling '08 Sonatas at $2,000 under invoice and there is a $2,000 rebate for a total of $4,000 under invoice
  • pteiuppteiup Member Posts: 2
    So, does anyone have inside information on when will the 09 Sonata be available in California? The salesmen told me that there's no way 09 Sonata will be available by the end of this month in their inventory. And keep repeating that it's only available in the East coast.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    No reason to expect the updated 2009s to be discounted to that level until the 2010s are on the way at the earliest or maybe not until the next replacement for the Sonata is ready to be released a year or 2 after that.
    The discounts on the 2007/2008s are going to be extra large just because the much nicer 2009s are about to come out.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    Do you recall when the '08s came out? It seems like Hyundai isn't following its normal 12 month cycle for introducing new model years.

    Wasn't the '08 Sonata sometime around June, '07?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    No reason to expect the updated 2009s to be discounted to that level until the 2010s are on the way at the earliest or maybe not until the next replacement for the Sonata is ready to be released a year or 2 after that.

    I can think of two reasons why large discounts and rebates will reappear on the 2009 Sonata within a few months of its release:

    1) Intense competition in the mid-sized class, with other cars e.g. Fulan, Mazda6, Camry, Aura offered at large discounts.
    2) Depressed auto sales due to the recession.

    Recall that even when the all-new 2006 Sonata debuted, large rebates and discounts appeared soon after its launch. So I don't think we need to wait until 2010 or until the next-gen Sonata is released for large discounts/rebates.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Hyundai is following a 12-month cycle with the Sonata but it's offset from the "normal" fall cycle because the 2006 Sonata debuted in the U.S. in early 2005. So it seems Hyundai is sticking to releasing the next MY Sonatas early each year. The 2008s were available as early as May 2007 I recall, as I rented one then and was surprised it was a 2008.
  • mazda6dudemazda6dude Member Posts: 283
    Need opinion.
    Is it better to buy a 2008 with huge discounts or wait till the 2009 comes out and buy it with not so big discounts?
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    From a strictly financial point of view and IMO, if you can get the 08 for about 3,000 less than the 09 you should come out about even in the long run. The longer you keep the car the less difference it makes. How much a car 9 years old vs. 10 yrs old is going to worth comes down to it's condition/mileage rather than what MY it is at that point.

    Consideration: Does the 09 have changes that you would really like to have. Such as the 09 Sonata redesigned interior and HP/mileage increase. Personally, I think these things are quite alluring so I would probably want at least a 3000 better deal on the 08.
  • gabebalazsgabebalazs Member Posts: 18
    I personally chose the 08 with the discount, but that was before learning when the 09's were coming out.
    Paid $20,660 + TTL for a new 08 V6 Limited with Sunroof, floor mats and cargo net. That's $5200 off MSRP.
    That was 2 weeks ago, then a couple of days later I learned that the 09's are coming out soon later this month. However, I am happy with my 08, and just by looking at Fitzmall's prices on the 09's I can tell that I made a good decision.

    However, I do love the new interior!
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    I didn't say they wouldn't be discounts and rebates on the 2009s later, but a refreshed design won't be discounted as much as a car that is about to be replaced by something nicer. When a replacement or updated model is out or about to come out, the older versions are pushed harder with what ever it takes to make room for the next model year.
    The dealers probably can't get more of the more attractive 2009s until they sell out their left over 2007s and 2008s.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    If the '09s come out in May that would tie-in with the approx 12 months cycle. The current generation came out in May or June of '05 as an '06 model...nothing new or earth shattering in the auto world.

    However, if the '09s come out within the next month, as some have said, our '07 (not quite a year old) will be 2 model years old in 13 months. We didn't exactly buy it at the end of the model year.

    Moving the intro date up by 3 months is a bit much. (Both our Sonatas, '05 & '07 have been fantastic.)
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    I think you would see that $3,000 difference in new purchase price (it could be more) greatly narrowed in about 5 or 6 years, not 9 or 10 years.

    As you said, once a car gets a certain number of years old, condition & milage are much more important than the model year. I think that time frame is more like 5 or 6 years while you are projecting a longer time frame.

    Who knows, just a different opinion from an insurance agent who has seen values set for cars damaged in accidents.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    As you said it would be "greatly narrowed" within the 5-6 time frame to which I agree. However, my comment was more to the "virtually no price difference" once they get to the 9-10 years old mark with condition being similar. They aren't worth much at the 6 yr mark and a lot less at the 9-10 year mark so it doesn't really matter at that point I guess.
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    In my neck of the woods, there are still quite a few unsold '07 Sonatas on the lot, not to mention the '08s. With an '09 coming in a few weeks, and local dealers facing the prospect of a two-year-old brand new car on the lot, the crunch is coming. I wonder if this will force dealers out of business in smaller markets like mine. The local Kia dealer also has far more '07s than '08s on the lot.
  • howard18howard18 Member Posts: 53
    seems like you can get a decent deal once '09 release for the '08 sonata. It would be sweet if i can get 08' sonata /Auto for less than $14K or even 13K!!
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    They just need to deal on the 2007s and 2008s and people will buy them. I'm sure with rebates a 2007 or 2008 will be quite a bit cheaper than a 2009.
    Many people shop purely on price and will live with the old style dashboard and live without AUX and USB to save money vs buying a 2009.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqpnrpfGRBA
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Well, what you said was that there is no reason to expect that the updated 2009s will be discounted to the level they are now until the 2010s are on the way at the earliest, or maybe not until the next replacement for the Sonata is ready to be released a year or two after that. I think we'll see big discounts and rebates much earleir, for the reasons I mentioned, based on current market and economic conditions and HMA's history with rebates on the Sonata.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The 2008 Kias, particularly the Optimas, were introduced pretty recently, so I'm not surprised you are seeing more 2007s than 2008s there.

    How many 2007 Sonatas is "quite a few"? I haven't seen any at my local dealer or advertised in my metro area (Twin Cities) for a many weeks.
  • howard18howard18 Member Posts: 53
    I just found on the newspaper that they are selling 08 Sonata SE for $14,888, i am not sure is Auto or Manual, but it is great discount!!
  • wanna_azzywanna_azzy Member Posts: 41
    Being an SE, I think they are only auto, but not sure. Are these NEW, or perhaps rental or lease returns? If so, they probably have close to 25,000 miles on them. They would have the remainder of the 5/60 warranty, but the 10/100,000 warranty is not transferrable. That alone could be a big difference in pricing. :confuse:
  • howard18howard18 Member Posts: 53
    Is that any real difference between 2007 & 2008 sonata?
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    For '08 MY, the SE is either a 4 cyl with M/T or V6 with A/T. Can't get a 4 cyl A/T in the SE, but A/T is available in the 4 cyl GLS or Limited.
  • howard18howard18 Member Posts: 53
    I have checked it and it is NEW car~~
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Besides the extra one year? Not a lot, for the 2007s made later in the model year. Those got the updates like more audio controls on the wheel and XM radio, which carried forward to 2008. There were some packaging changes for 2008 too, e.g. the SE and Limited being available with an I4, and I think some equipment changes on some trims, e.g. the SE got a telescopic wheel, but for 2007 I think only the Limited had a telescopic wheel. Also more standard equipment on the Limited for 2008, just about everything standard except moonroof (which is standard for 2009, fwiw).
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    Sounds like those bait and switch ads in the paper all the time. They always say the ones in the ad have already been sold.
    If you look at most car dealer newspaper ads, they usually have some amazing discount special in the paper that you can never get when you go there.
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    When I was on the lot last (a couple of weeks ago), there were only about four '08s, but seven or eight '07s. This is in central Georgia, in case you're curious.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Must be a small dealer--usually there's a few dozen Sonatas on the lot of the dealer closest to me.
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    Yes, ours is a small dealer. Total new inventory is maybe 60 vehicles, plus about 100 used. It used to be one dealership with Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep, Hyundai, and Mazda, but they spun the Hyundai operation off to a separate site. They've got about ten each of Elantras and Accents, a handful of Santa Fes, not many choices at all. The last time I was there, they had nothing but automatics, even in the Accent.

    There's another Hyundai dealer maybe 25 miles down the road, and I think it's even smaller. I wonder if Hyundai will push for consolidation of smaller dealerships like this as part of the quest for greater legitimacy in the market.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I think this is a photo of the 2009 SE, from the Chicago Auto Show:

    http://autoshow.autos.msn.com/autoshow/chicago2008/photogallerypopup.aspx?cp-doc- umentid=6194664&photo-number=1

    Note the 5-spoke wheels, fog lamps, and body-color trim on the bumpers and sides. Those are what make me think it's the SE--mainly the alloys, which are different from the alloys on the 2009 Limited--thank goodness!! Also, does the grille look a little different from that on the Limited? At any rate, I much prefer the looks of this car to the Limited.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    Thanks for the pix, backy.

    Odd, but to me it looks like photo #2 has "chrome" bumper/side moldings--the other pix don't.

    Must be they had more than one trim level there in the same color.

    Edit: just noticed the wheels are different also, so it is not the "same car."
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    I am considering the 2009 Sonata, but I looked up KBB trade-in value of 2 an 3 year old Sonatas and compared them to a comparably equipped 2 and 3 year old Honda Accord with same mileage and condition and the resale value of the Hyundais are still so much lower even though Hyundai quality and reliability is now better than most cars.
    The 80-90's reputation is not going away any time soon and you will pay for this at trade-in time,

    The only way you will come out ahead buying the Hyundai is if you can buy the new Hyundai for at least the same amount of a discount new as you will have to give up at resale time.

    For instance, suppose the realistic market value of your used Hyundai trade-in is $5000 less than a similar Honda trade-in, then you will not have saved any money unless you paid more than $5000 less for the new Hyundai than the best deal you could have got on the Honda when the Honda was new.
    If it is even close, then you might as well get the one you like the best.

    Look up dealer trade in value of a 3 year old and a 5 year old Sonata with 36,000 miles and 60,000 miles and "good" condition and compare it to the closest equivalent Honda Accord model with the same mileage and condition and see if you think you could buy a new Sonata for enough of a discount compared to a new (and also discounted) Accord to come out ahead with the Sonata.

    The lower MSRP plus rebates on the Hyundai still may not be enough to offset the much lower resale value that could wipe away all your original purchase savings plus more,
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Yes, for now at least the financials work out much better if you get the Sonata at a big discount, because we don't know yet what the resale value of the 2009 model will be. I expect it will be higher than what we've seen in the past, both because of improved quality/capability and also because of higher sale prices when new (e.g. there were no $27-28k MSRP Sonatas out there until now). So if you plan on trading the Sonata in 2-3 years, the big discount up front is very important, compared to buying something like an Accord.

    Keep in mind that 5-year trade-in values for the Sonata are based on the 2003 Sonata, which was not nearly as good a car (or pricey of a car) as the current Sonata.

    FWIW, the private-party sales are not as bad as trade-in values. Maybe more people out there see that Hyundai makes a good car now and has for some time. For example, when I sold my '01 Elantra after five years, I got almost exactly 50% of its original purchase price. I didn't get a big reduction off MSRP on the car because I bought one of the first all-new '01 Elantras to come to the U.S, back in 2000, and there was only $500 manufacturer-to-dealer cash on it, and no consumer rebates. Even so, I think I came out very well, and in absolute dollars I think I fared better than I would have had I bought my 2nd choice, a '01 Civic EX. The dollar depreciation on the Elantra after 5 years was about $5900.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    Even when you compare a 2006 Sonata GLS (current body) to a 2006 Accord LX sedan (old body style), the trade-in difference is massive.

    2006 Accord LX automatic with 30,000 miles: http://tinyurl.com/2a3bv2
    2006 Sonata GL automatic with 30,000 miles: http://tinyurl.com/2bo589

    Huge difference. Could you have purchased a 2006 Sonata new for enough of a price difference to make up for the current difference in trade-in value?

    You could get more selling to a private party, but you would also get more for the Honda doing the same thing.

    If quality and reliability are good and resale value is poor, then maybe the best deal will be buying a low mileage used 2009 Sonata in 2 years.

    If Hyundai comes out with an aggressive lease deal with low rates and an artificially high residual, then maybe I will still get the Sonata via the lease program and not worry about resale value.
  • howard18howard18 Member Posts: 53
    The only price i would pay for sonata w/ auto is $15K OTL. I will buy either Camry or Accord if i have to pay more than $15K OTL~

    I hate to say that, but this won't change at least for this few years for Hyundai car.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Could you have purchased a 2006 Sonata new for enough of a price difference to make up for the current difference in trade-in value?

    Yes. For the 2006 Sonatas, there were large rebates starting only a few months after launch. The price difference was about $5000 compared to an Accord (I've been traking prices of the Sonata and Hyundais in general for many years). The KBB numbers show about a $4500-5100 difference. So why should that be surprising? Also, consider you would have had the use of the extra $5000 from purchase time until now. So financially, you would have come out ahead with the Sonata.

    Leasing could be good if you plan to only keep the car for 2-3 years, and HMA has offered some attractive leases in the past, e.g. less than $200/month with 0 down on the 2006+ GLS with AT. But if you plan on keeping the car for many years, which I plan to do, then I think buying is a better option (plus then you can use up all of the 10-year warranty).

    Money doesn't magically appear out of thin air. If a car costs about $5000 less when new than another car of equal utility, then it's unrealistic to expact that two years later, the car that cost less will be worth more than the more expensive car--or more precisely, that the difference in resale value will have decreased much below $5000. But as the OTD prices of Sonatas go up, and discounts and rebates go down, and sales to fleets are reduced (already done), resale values of the Sonata will go up. People who complain about Sonata prices going up (and sometimes in the same post about resale values!) should keep that in mind.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Have you priced comparably-equipped Accords and Camrys? How much over $15k were those prices?
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    A 2008 GLS automatic at invoice minus $2000 rebate is about $16,700, so $15K isn't likely, Maybe $15,000 on a leftover 2007.

    A 2008 Accord LX automatic invoice is about $19800. With some effort, you can find a new 2008 Accord LX selling for $0 over invoice, that's only $3100 difference.
    Even if you had to pay $1000 over invoice for the Accord today, $4100 would be easy to make up in resale value and you would still end up with lower overall cost on the 2008 Accord than on a Sonata that cost $4100 less when it was new.
    They 2009s Sonatas should be more desirable used because of new powertrains with better power and fuel economy plus the new, much nicer interior, but it remains to be seen if that will add more than just a little extra resale value.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Maybe you didn't see some posts a day or so ago, which noted that dealers like Fitzmall and Towne Hyundai offer everyday under-invoice prices on 2008 Sonatas. In Towne's case, it's $2000 under invoice, before rebate. Fitzmall doesn't have a similar flat rate under invoice, but if you look at their everyday Internet pricing, you'll see average discounts of about $5000, including the current $2000 rebate (or you can take 0 percent financing for 5 years in lieu of the $2000 rebate). So if you pay $1000 over invoice on an Accord today, you'll be paying over $5000 more than for a comparably-equipped 2008 Sonata. Even at invoice for the Accord, the price difference will be close to $5000. Add interest (earned or avoided) on that $5k over a few years' time, and financially the picture looks pretty good for the Sonata.

    Edit: Here's a recent (today!) example from the Sonata Prices Paid discussion:

    I liked the new 08 Accord V6, and even though I got offers 300 below invoice it was still 26K for a V6 EX-L w/ no nav. Also considered Toyota RAV4, but Limited trim w/ leather pushed it to 28K (and that's at invoice price not MSRP). Liked the Aura too, but still around 25K (not much haggling with Saturn).

    I've always liked Sonatas, so I came back to checking out Hyundai again. Fitzmall had 08 Limited V6 w/ sunroof and mats and cargo net for $20,661.00 plus TTL. That's $5,219.00 off the MSRP of $25,880. I was sold. We intend to keep this car a long time. But even with the depriciation, what can you get for a little over $20K these days loaded in the midsize segment? I considered this a lot of car for the the money I paid for it.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    Well, if you will be able to buy the 2009s for $5000-$6000 less than an equivalent Accord, then it will be worth it even after the loss in resale value as long as you like the Hyundai as much or more than the Accord.
    You have to buy the Hyundai at a massive discount for it to be even anywhere near the total cost of ownership of an Accord.
    I suppose Hyundai could just drop the MSRP $5000 and say: "All cars sold at MSRP, no discounting." They could just add 0% financing at year end to move out the old models when the next model years come in. They could then also slowly increase the MSRP each year as the brand reputation improved. The percentage of MSRP retained at resale would skyrocket,
    However, I think people prefer getting discounts, even if the final price is no less, so that probably wouldn't work.
  • autokritikerautokritiker Member Posts: 65
    As a matter of fact, many dealers have been selling Sonata GL's ('06) and GLS´s ('07 / '08) for $14,500 to $15,000 + TTL. I walked onto the local Hyundai lot in May 2007, just to get an up-close look at the '07 Elantras and Sonatas. One of the salesmen there told me that the factory-to-dealer incentives were so huge on the Sonatas that they were able to sell '07 automatic GLS's for about $14,500 + TTL. Even better deals could be had in December '07 through February '08.

    On the other hand, a "good deal" on a new Accord is usually invoice, which is about $2,000 below MSRP in the Accord's case. Honda dealers know how popular their cars are, and they are not willing to go below invoice in many cases, which was about $19,600 on the '06 and '07 Accord LX automatic.

    If one were to find a rare and exceptional deal on an Accord, they would have gotten $500 to $1,000 below invoice. The same "rare and exceptional" deal on a Sonata GL/GLS automatic would be as low as around $13,800 + TTL.

    To answer your question: Yes, new Sonatas are regularly being sold for $5,000 less than comparable new Accords. Also keep in mind, most Hyundai owners keep their cars for 5 to 10 years. You will not see many cases where people are selling or trading-in a Hyundai with only 30,000 miles. Yes, most Sonata owners are indeed saving money.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    You can buy a used Camry at CarMax for a no haggle price

    http://www.carmax.com/dyn/factsheet/factsheet.aspx?id=4779925

    http://www.carmax.com/dyn/factsheet/factsheet.aspx?id=4819540
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    Same here.

    I got my new 2007 Sonata Limited (V6 standard) last June for $19,600. My trade-in was 13 yrs old. I keep my cars for at least 10 years at which time trade-in values are insignificant/irrelevant - age is age for cars.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Hmmm, that's a toughie.. buy a 3-year-old Camry with 46k miles and a 30-day warranty, or buy a brand-new 2008 Sonata GLS with more equipment (e.g. ESC and XM radio) and full factory warranty for about the same price. I know which one I'd go with. :)
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    I looked up a 1998 Accord LX vs a 1998 Sonata GL with both being in good condition and having 120K miles.
    The Accord was worth $3300 trade-in and the Sonata was only worth 1/3 of the Accord's value at only $1100.
    So, even after 10 years and 120,000 miles, there is a major resale value difference.
    The Accord still has decent value at that age and mileage because people expect an Accord to go between 200K and 300K miles and they expect the Hyundai to be disposable at 100K miles.
    The Accords get pretty old before their trade-in value drops below $2000.
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