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Fatboy, All GM Vehicles now come with a 100,000 mile warranty
Basic: 3 yr. / 36,000 mi.
Drivetrain: 5 yr. / 100,000 mi.
Hybrid Component: 8 yr. / 100,000 mi.
Roadside: 5 yr. / 100,000 mi.
Rust: 6 yr. / 100,000 mi.
It'll be curious to see if GM categorizes the batteries as part of the Basic, Drivetrain or Hybrid coverage. The normal starting battery is covered as part of the Basic warranty and even then you only get a pro-rated value for the remaining life of the battery. My guess is that the batteries themselves will be under the Basic coverage while the actual electric "booster" motor on the tranny is covered under the drivetrain or hybrid warranty.
I can just the hear conversation with the dealership at 50K miles now..."Hybrid owner: my fuel economy is down and I think the batteries aren't holding their full charge...I want my batteries replaced under the warranty....Dealer: I'm sorry sir, but the batteries are operating properly...it must be the way you're operating the vehicle...you're accelerating too hard".
Either way, what do you think the resale value is going to be based on the second owner having to pony up thousands of $ for the replacement batteries?
I see GM (and other car makers) making as much off replacement battery sales as they do off the original sale of a hybrid vehicle. Of course the primary owners of hybrid vehicles are going to be left holding the bag as the resale value plummets to a number that reflects the used value of the vehicle minus the replacement cost of a new set of batteries.
First- there is a sizeable jump in price from 45K to 55/60K for a loaded Platinum. You're changing your comparison group from Nissan/Ford/Chevy to Cadillac/Denali/Infiniti/Mercedes. Big difference there.
Second- The Tundra is a truck and while I'm sure there are people who buy them "just to have", there are less families buying Tundras as the family station wagon as families buying a Seqouia as their family station wagon. Different uses bring different expectations.
Yes the Escalade has a nicer dash and is defnitely a better looking car
Ultimately your choice will depend on what your preferences. I would rather prefer a car that has the qualities of the Sequoia.
The 2wd Platinum (with H-TEMS) has a tow rating of 9100lbs and the 4wd version has a rating of 8800lbs. Generally you would want between 10 & 15% of the towed vehicle's weight on the tongue of the trailer. http://www.etrailer.com/faq_trailertowtips.aspx
There is no such thing as a vehicle tongue weight rating as its a function of the overall vehicle's payload rating and how much load is in the vehicle versus on the tongue. To be on the conservative side, you would generally not want your vehicles load plus the tongue weight to exceed the vehicle's payload rating. In the case of the 2wd Platinum that would be 1330 lbs.
As you mention MB, did we talk in tahoe's forum before? hehe, old friend.
Does anyone know what the H-TEMS system on the Platinum is? And can you still get the rear air suspension with it?
Also, does anyone know why the tow rating is so different for an SR5 versus Limited versus Platimum? The brochure indicates that the total vehicle weight is not that much different between them. With the 5.7 engine the SR5 is rated at 9600, but the Limited and Platimum are rating at only 9100 and 8800 respectively.
Just not my approach to buying a vehicle, but I guess it works for others. Image is alot less important to me than it seems to be for others (or then it was to me when I was younger). I'm more interested in the features and benefits and do they meet my needs or wants.
I don't think I've ever been on the Tahoe forum, although it is possible.
:shades:
:sick:
Lexus has no comparable vehicle to the Sequoia. In fact, I think that I've seen Toyota marketing attempt to make the link btwn the Platinum being "Lexus-like".
While there are obviously many ways to draw the parameters for a comparison group, many of us use the price. Making that assumption, the comparison group for a Sequoia Platinum is the Mercedes, Escalade, QX56, Navigator, etc. Value is then measured in many different manners as well, and Toyota has some advantages and some distinct disadvantages. Those have been well documented in these threads.
Can you elaborate on the first statement? Both have similar HP/torque figures and 6 speed autos.
You won't be able to elaborate on the last statement since that is purely subjective and clearly biased based upon your perception.
We looked extensively at the Lexus, Toyota, Mercedes and Escalade.
The third row seats in all but the 2008 Sequoia, Lexus 570 and Mercedes Gl are worthless for any size above toddler.
The Mercedes is certainly a nice truck but to get it equipped right you will have it up around $72,000 msrp. And the maintenance would be very expensive and reliability not too great.
If money were not an object there is not any doubt that the new Lexus 570 would have been our choice. Real nice.
The Escalade had an awsum interior (except for the third row seat) and lots of "bling" if that your thing, but they depreciate more than any of the others we looked at.
The Denali was nice and seems to hold it's resale better than the Escalade but was noisy and again no useable third row seat. None of the GMs have Blue-Tooth.
We eventually decided on the Sequoia as it had everthing the new Lexus had (although not as opulant) with lots of room and great third row seat that folds flat.
We have about 400 miles on it and it has gotten 17 mpg with 15/85 mix in town and highway. I'm certain it will get better than 18 with just highway miles.
Actually, the LX570 retains a solid axle in the rear. It also does not have a 3rd row seat that folds flat into the floor. Of the large Toyota SUVs, only the Sequoia has an independent rear suspension with fold flat 3rd row seats.
Given that the LX570 is a newly redesigned vehicle and that the LC is the same design, its not very likely that either will get an independent rear suspension anytime soon (if ever).
"The four-link trailing-arm rear suspension retains the solid-axle configuration for strength and durability. Camber rigidity is increased, as is bearing rigidity, and all bushings are enlarged"
http://www.toyoland.com/news/?p=95
I hate those lights and think you are right. I high beam them every time they approach. Seems the BMW lights are the worst for blinding oncoming cars. They should be outlawed and soon.
I'm curious if folks would actually choose the LX570 over the Sequoia if money were no object? In reality the LX570 is a somewhat dated albeit nicely executed design. It is far smaller inside than a Sequoia. It does not have an independent rear suspension and therefore does not have a fold flat rear seat. The 2nd row leg is far less than the Sequoia and the LX does not have the sliding 2nd row or reclining 3rd row seats. The 3rd row seats are described as comparable to many of the smaller x-over SUVs in this article http://www.cars.com/go/features/autoshows/vehicle.jsp?vehicletype=production&aut- oshowyear=2007&vehicle=production_lexus_lx570&make=Lexus&model=LX+570
The difference in price was not a significant factor in my buying decision and if I thought the LX was a better design I would have bought it.
Its my guess that Toyota purposefully kept the Platinum Sequoia's interior somewhat "pedestrian" to avoid the complete wipe-out of the newly launched LX570. Who in their right mind would buy the LX if they could get the Sequoia with a premium interior with "babinga wood & a craftsman leather interior"? My opinion is....no one. Even with the "crawl" capabity advantage which will never be used by the average LX owner.
I think this is also why they decided not to launch a Lexus "Sequoia". If they did, it would have eliminated LX sales, just as I think the Sequoia is likely to wipe out the minimal remaining LC sales in the US. The Japanese do not want to see the US demise of the LX or the LC (yet) because these products are made in Japan...employing Japanese. The Sequoia is made for Americans primarily by Americans. Unfortunately that may mean that a high end Sequoia interior is not likely any time soon, if it is at the expense of the LX/LC Japanese Platform in the US. Much of the higher price of the LC and LX is directly due to this vehicle being imported vs being made domestically.
Just my opinion without facts to support the view, however I think my view will be born out if they avoid giving the Sequoia a high end interior. If they do upgrade the interior (and I hope they do), it will result in the LX/LC platform being solely destined for sale ROW and the Sequoia will become a solely American product. In reality they should have made this decision when they launched the Sequoia and they should have also killed the new LX/LC launch in the US. Sales of these vehicles are dismal in the US and not likely to improve with the launch of the lower priced, higher value Sequoia.
My final choice buying a Sequoia was cemented when I learned they were made in Indiana. I am a "Made in USA" buyer as much as possible. That and the Sequoia was a nicer driving vehicle than the Denali. The engine transmission were smoother than the Mercedes GL. With better 2nd row leg room.
So Lexus has the LX which is nothing more than a gussied up LandCruiser with a year longer warranty and loaner cars. Whooptie doo!
Try getting the Mercedes for the price of the Sequoia when both are equipped the same and look at your cost to own. Sequoia will come up on top. As I said before, this was meant to compete with the Expedition, Tahoe/Suburban, etc. not the luxury brands. But if you want to compare to the luxury brands then it gives more cache to the Sequoia.
:shades:
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The nominal advantage the LC/LX has over the new Sequoia in off-road capabilities is of minimal difference to the buyer's of these vehicles as most new buyer's of a new LC/LX are not going to take the $70+K vehicle off-road. I also think that based on the Sequoia's new drivetrain there is very little difference in off-road capability between the LC/LX and the new Sequoia. Even their weights are now comparable. Platinum Sequoia = 6045lbs & LX570 = 5995lbs.
My wife and I like the red rock interior, but just can't get over the fact that the car (dash especially) does not feel luxurious. Additionally, the mish mash of painted silver pieces all over make the interior feel like an after thought. Even the door handles look sooo cheap (their size almost tends to exaggerate the cheapness)...couldn't they have used chrome door handle pulls? So, each time we ask ourselves, is this an interior befitting of a $56K vehicle?? We flat run into a wall. I have repeatedly asked the wife "do you like the car? You know its the top choice in terms of powertrain, interior flexibilit etc. " and she replies "yes, I know, but for $56K+ it just doesn't feel like a luxurious vehicle. If we're paying that much money, I wish it felt a little more luxurious. I even like the interior of the Armada better".
I'm so tired of the mental dilemma because I know that the vehicle is superb from every other angle. At this juncture, I've simply decided to put the car buying thing off b/c I can't stand the mental anguish. In the meantime, I'm driving a 14 year old Honda Accord with almost 200K miles because I had to give my wife my car (G35) as we now have a 14 month old and her safety is paramount to me. So, I continue to suffer in silence.
The argument that the vehicle price has a $24K spread between a base SR5 and a loaded platinum does not justify why the interior of the Platinum is the way it currently is. Could I love this car the way it is at $40K? Probably. Can I love it at $55K+, I'm having a really really hard time? Heck, even if they just get rid of all the silver painted surfaces and made them a flat black or textured black, that would do wonders. Some have said that the grey interior works better with the current layout....I personally can't stand the grey interior.
Herein lies the dilemma!!
Come on Toyota, how much more would it cost to outfit your newest top of the line model that would befit a vehicle with a "Platinum" designation!!!
and reliability issues.
If you desire a true luxury vehicle these days, the price of admission is $70k and above in my opinion. Some models that come to mind are the Porsche Cayenne, Land Rover Range Rover, Mercedes GL, Audi Q7, etc. Even a loaded out Cadillac Escalade ESV MSRPs for $75k. Granted, these vehicles are not as well-rounded as the Sequoia, but they exude luxury nonetheless.
Besides, Toyota has never been a luxury brand. That's why they created Lexus. I personally think that the Sequoia Platinum is worth $56K. But I would gladly pay $75K - $80k for a Lexus version of the Sequoia if they were to produce one.
From Toyota's e-brochure :
Legroom (F/2nd/3rd) : 38/35.4/34.5
Cargo Space (2nd&3rd down/3rd down/3rd up) : 120.8/79.4/28.4
From Edmund :
Legroom (F/2nd/3rd) : 42.5/36.4/35.3
Cargo Space (2nd&3rd down/3rd down/3rd up) : 120.1/66.6/18.9
Some major discrepancy on the cargo space ...........
Here's a comparison of the 07 and 08:
Vehicle Comparison
But yet I understand all of your feelings and that is why, in the end, I changed my mind and got a loaded SR5. At $43K it made me have no lingering regrets about it not being nicer inside. Well almost none. My $30K Honda minivan is still nicer inside.
I do miss the power rear hatch but that is all that comes to mind. A Sienna AWD would be a better general purpose vehicle for nearly everyone.
Overhead cam engines have their advantages, but don't discount pushrod engines. They can be just as reliable and they are smaller overall for the same displacement.
http://www.caranddriver.com/columns/8025/the-pushrod-engine-finally-gets-its-due- .html?al=156
Please understand, this is not a case of my trying to have my cake and it it too. Let me elaborate -- I'm just expecting something more organized, well thought out, with a dab of wood trim in strategic locations. Forgetting even the redesigned interior of the QX56 for a minute, even the redesigned dash layout of the Armada is a lot nicer than the Sequoia. I think Toyo tried to do something unconventional -- split colored dash (to segregate driver vs. passenger), gauge pods for the instrument, plastic silver trim pieces etc. and it just hasn't worked out well. I think getting rid of the painted silver (especially around the instrument cluster) or at least using it liberally, introducing a few chrome accents (again judiciously) and use of some wood trim (door panels, center console maybe) would do wonders for the interior.
Here's what really kills me -- in the face of rising gas prices and a dwindling auto segment, I strongly suspect Toyota WILL ultimately rework or at least improve the interior. Its just that it won't happen for the next 2 years or so, at which time, I'll feel completely shafted by the fact that I just coughed up $55K+ and now I have a dash design that is outdated and replaced with something nicer. This is what keeps me from taking the plunge.
Packaging, weight and simplicity of design are some of the key positives of the pushrod motors. The ability to rev and more precise control over valve timing are come of the positives of the overhead cam design. GM certainly have proved to the world how far they can push the envelope on the pushrod engine with the Corvette. Frankly, I'm more impressed by the Z06 motor than I am the ZR1, because the ZR1 achieves its output via forced induction, while the Z06 can actually rev and make power up to 7,000 rpm.
All this being said, besides the domestics almost every manufacturer has recognized the benefits of the ohv design and moved in this direct. Heck, even the CTS 3.6L engine (GM's "high feature" motor) is now an overhead valvetrain design.
Bottomline, this is a point less "mine is better than yours" argument that will go nowhere.
Vern, if you are satisfied with the exterior, drivetrain and and interior layout but turned off by the "level of interior luxury", you might consider upgrades to the interior yourself.
If you wre prepared to spend $15K more for a more luxurious interior you might consider spending a $1-2K to upgrade the interior yourself. I don't know if you'd be interested in upgraded wood or "molded wood dash kits" but there are some nice options such as sending out your interior dash components to be upgraded that look pretty cool and would certainly help the Sequoia's interior stand out as luxurious.
Here's a few sites:
http://www.wooddashexperts.com/customer/home.php
http://www.dashkitspecialties.com/?gclid=CKn0z5PYipECFQwsOAodqF1DHg
http://www.exoticwoodtrim.com/?gclid=CPj38pzYipECFQwsOAodqF1DHg
http://www.nycdashes.com/
Thanks again!
Consider...
The Armada/QX both have a brand new hard-disk drive navigation unit
Both have a 9GB hard drive so you can rip your cd's right to it
Both have a memory card slot to play music off of
Both have keyless entry and keyless "go"...ie no need for a key to get moving
The QX has HID headlights
Is that outdated? All of these features are not found on any level of the Sequoia.
Mack...you're sounding like a car salesperson here
Try to be a bit more objective and not so over the top with your descriptors.
We would argue about the pros and cons about these engines but ultimately it is a question of money. Right now GM does not have the resources to invest in new engines.