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On 01/04/2013 my 2007 Saturn Outlook XE AWD had the 3-5-R wave plate failure while cruising the highway. Truck was 2 months past the warranty with 77200 miles. I called Saturn to see if there was any possibility of having this fixed by GM even though the warranty was out. The Saturn rep instructed me to have the truck diagnosed at a GM dealership of my choice, and they would decide if they could help covering the cost.
I chose to take my Saturn to Craig Smith Auto Group in Galion Ohio. They diagnosed the problem and confirmed that it was the 3-5-R wave plate.
The service rep and manager said that they would need to talk to the district rep to see what could be done. I have to say that I was not all that optimistic.
After a short while the service manager called back to say that GM was willing to help, they offered to remove and rebuild the transmission for only a $200 deductible. I couldn't believe it.
I agreed to have them fix it, and just got it back today.
Total cost of just over $300 after deductible, diagnostic fee, and taxes.
Truck now shifts as it did before the failure and I couldn't be happier!
I have always owned GM products and this whole experience has confirmed the reason why.
A big thanks GM, and an especially big thanks to Craig Smith Auto Group!
Sarah, GM Customer Service
Sarah, GM Customer Service
How can you claim to do such rigorous testing on your vehicles and then have a transmission go out OVERNIGHT 47K without any warning whatsoever. Lucky for GM that the transmission failed when it did - in my driveway, because 5 minutes prior to that I would have been on a major highway & I shutter to think of the possiblities.
Anyway, this morning I returned the call the the dealership and was informed that the cost would be $3,822 but they were offering a 10% discount and I could get a $200 Visa rebate from GM - like I'd won a prize or something. I will be checking around today with transmission shops, etc. for better pricing.
A call to a friend of mine at Channel 9 here in Denver for an investigate report might also be in order. It would seem to me that GM has a problem with their transmissions just based on the many posts here - perhaps a recall is in order - right??
Let me end by saying my husband wasn't thrilled about getting this car since he has always been a Ford guy. We currently have 3 Ford vehicles that have required only normal maintenance oil changes & the like, new tires, etc. & have definitely never had to replace a transmission on a vehicle. My husband currently has 120k on an 2005 - F150, my daughter's 95 Mustang has 86K & I had 169K on my 99 Expedition (that was broadsided & totaled this summer, forcing me to purchase another car). I was the one who said let's give a GMC car a try, it's American made too. So much for that - Shame on me. This is so wrong to have to replace this transmission at this point & pay for it entirely to boot!! I'm a pretty easy going person but right now my dander is up!
The good news is that I contacted GM customer service, first by email and then phone, and Donae is working on our request for assistance from GM. Our transmission trouble started within days of warranty expiration, <100K, original owners, etc so I am hopeful that they will stand by their product which should never experience this level and frequency of failure.
P1516 Electronic throttle mod VS, Throttle Position Performance
P2119 Throttle Closed Position Performance
P2135 TP Sensor 1-2 Correlation
It needs to be fixed quickly as I live in a mountainous area and I literally “get stuck” with my two young girls.
My trusted mechanic owns Sabaru here in Colorado springs. We have not had the best of luck going to dealers here and in Denver. We had transmission replaced when we were stranded near Denver and had to push car off the road (literally). It was amazing that it was replaced “no questions asked’ and the dealer there admitted they had to replace “a lot”. That told us that the car brand was having lots of problems.
Our local dealership is: Mike Shaw GM 1313 Motor City Dr 719-636-3881. This is the same place that argued with us about our headlight problems and then after we paid to have them fixed at a cheaper shop, a month later the recall went out about the light connectors.
Right now it is sitting at Sabaru Repair (they have been AWESOME on our subarus and I trust them) and Martin and I are researching the problem – and I came upon this website.
Please let us know what GM is doing about this problem. Thank you-
Brenda Stanciu
Looking at your VIN, your powertrain warranty expires today (unless you're mileage is already past 100,420 MI). I understand you have a good relationship with your mechanic, but if you had wanted to see if what's happening with your vehicle would be covered it would be better to act on that sooner rather than later.
Sarah, GM Customer Service
Sarah, GM Customer Service
It's a sensor on the throttle body but you have to replace the whole thing. It's only a $200 part but if you are getting it done at a repair shop you have to factor in labor.
Hope you get it fixed soon!
Problem started with some hesitation when shifting. Then yesterday it started getting stuck in 2nd gear when in overdrive. Tried manual shifting today just to get it to the dealership to have it looked at and it worked for a while but not for long. Once I drove for 4 to 5 miles it started malfunctioning when trying to manual shift too. Just barely made it to the dealership after having to turn the car off several times and let it sit for a minute before trying again. Such a pain!! Researched it all yesterday and found all the "waveplate" problems and saw that a ton of people have had the same problem happen with theirs and usually have to have the tranny rebuilt or replaced. WISH I had found this forum BEFORE I bought the thing back in 2010!!
Having transmission replaced at a GM service center. $2400 for the parts and $800 labor (they charge $100 an hour!!). SO FRUSTRATED!! I was right at the point of trading it in, actually started discussing it with my husband last week just a few days before the trouble started. Now I'm stuck with the thing for a while because that $3200 would have been an good down payment on a new vehicle....
Wish there was a class action lawsuit on these things. It's well documented that the transmissions in these cars are too small for the vehicle and they all end up failing near or right after the powertrain runs out. It's rediculous. I'm totally done with GM that's for sure!!
Oh, and if you are the 2nd owner on a GM vehicle, they will do NOTHING for you. The repairman at the dealership actually filled me in on this. He said if I had been the first owner, they would have probably helped me on it since they have a "Goodwill" policy. But that policy does not hold for subsequent owners. GM doesn't care, especially about the Saturns because Saturn is no longer in existance. So why would they care to help out all of us left with their crap??
We're sorry that you've run into these transmission problems. It looks like you're going to work with the dealership to have this taken care of - keep us posted on the progress of the repairs! If you want for us to check into anything, we can be reached via email at socialmedia@gm.com (include your contact information, the last 8 digits of your VIN, and a summary of the situation).
Sarah, GM Customer Service
Call the U.S. Department of Transportation's Vehicle Safety Hotline: (888) 327-4236 or (800) 424-9153, toll free from anywhere in the United States, Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands
Report the issue online at the NHTSA's vehicle safety Web site: http://www.safercar.gov/
Send a letter via U.S. Mail: U.S. Department of Transportation National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Office of Defects Investigation (NVS-210) 1200 New Jersey Avenue SE Washington, DC 20590
I will post a copy of my original post here - and I'm looking for guidance on how to proceed. Hyundai recently lost a similar case in court and had to pay out...but I havent researched the details.
I created a spreadsheet with every single fix or maintenance performed on my 2008 Outlook, with mileage, date, service notes and grouped by category to I can quickly see the repeat issues that arise. I tracked my fuel consumption for 8 months accurately, I was going broke filling the tank up 2x a week.
The following list is in date order of everything that has been replaced in my car, most covered under warranty or recall, but extensive: Sensor Camshaft, Cylinder Head Gasket,Dead Battery, Windshield Wiper Motor, Transmission Software Update (after multiple complaints),Airbag Wire Harness, Power Steering Rack & Gear, Front Pads and Rotors (1st time), Gasket for Intake Manifold, Gasket for Rear Valve Cover, Right Front Strut, Both Strut Mounts, Engine Mounts,Front Pads and Rotors (2nd time), Left Front Stabilizer Link, Front Pads and Rotors (3rd Time), Headlight Harness, Airbag Connector Kit, Engine Front Cover Crank Seal, Timing Cover Seal, Broken Bolts in Cylinder Head & Valve Cover, Exhaust Stud Broken Bolts, Power Steering Pump, Hose & Clamp.
I have accurately documented the fuel economy, resulting in the finding out I get an estimated average of 11.85 MPG combined City/HWY AFTER the Transmission Software and Calibration Update was made in 2009 (orig.released on May 2008). For tracking data, I used a 6 month period from January - June 2012. (For those who don't know, the original transmission software had a hesitation when accelerating (providing a flat spot b/w 35-50 mpg). GM will not advertise this update, you must ask for it and be firm. However, the negative impact will be the fuel economy, which obviously GM did not research properly.
A GM (outsourced company) service rep... told me that the software is an "option" and I should be glad to hear they offer that "option", and my sales person should have review all of my options such as engine size, etc. It is a trade off between performance and fuel economy and if I wanted performance I should have bough a sports car. I responded, and quickly corrected him to say, no this is not an option, it is a manufacturers defect and I want it fixed. Here are the results of my findings...believe me, this took time to pull it all together, but it is accurate: Average MPG is 11.85 Combined City/Hwy from Jan - June 2012
Lowest MPG Recorded was 8.90, Highest MPG Recorded was 14.80
Total Miles from Jan - June 2012 is 6330 miles, using 587 gallons at $2170.
Total Cost of Excess Fuel Consumption Since Software Update in 2009: $5069.00
I contacted the National Highway Safety Admin, Better Business Bureau, and next steps are CT Attorney General, Possible EPA and perhaps small claims court for the $5000 refunded to me from gas. GM was no help - they went around in circles leading me on week after week month after month. Our tax dollars bail them out, and they are still rude and incompetent. The Saturn Customer Service number doesnt even bring you to a GM operated customer service department. GM Outsources that first level of calls...all you need to do is look on Linked in to confirm it. It was an outsourced service rep that was rude and told me the transmission issue was an "option". Could we find an attorney that could represent all of us - with the goal of having GM reimburse us for our hard earned money that was unecessarily lost on their product? We did bail them out with our tax money...and they still choose to steamroll consumers.
GM sucks...we bail them out and look how they repay the favor.
My problems with them are too long to list, from rude customer service, blatant lies and incompetence...it consumed my life for months. Thats why I decided to take a break from it.
REPLACE THROTTLE BODY (FOUND FAILURE TO
THROTTLE BODY) $445.16
we will not know the true total till we go in later today- the dealership had LOTS of other recommendations that were suggestions but not needed- including their warning that we needed new tires (and they supplied us with a quote of course) even though we got new tires in September. He was not sure how that recomendation was still on our file from 1 year ago when we went in for an oil change...but of course they were "nice" enough to add that into the suggested total.
Sarah, GM Customer Service
Sarah, GM Customer Service
I need to compliment GM Customer Service, though. Donae is our rep and we have heard from her nearly every day during these three weeks. I can't be a believer until I see some financial assistance, though. Our service advisor seems to think that GM is going to help out, maybe go 50-50. At the rate that they're spending money trying to fix my Saturn, that'll still be a huge bill for something that shouldn't happen...at all, nonetheless at <100K.
On Feb 12th as I was driving the car in the morning around town the front dash would display 4 messages. The first was 1. Service Traction Control 2. Service Stability Track 3. Traction Stability Off and then 4. Engine Power Reduced. Then the car would start to lose power and shut down while at the same time I’m trying to safely pull over to the side and turn the car off. After waiting 5 to 10 minutes I start the car again and drive off.
On Feb 13th the same thing happen twice to me driving home from Modesto, CA to Stockton, CA. As I drove home the car instructed the same number of steps while I was on the freeway at the Manteca exit on 99. Again I waited and then pulled off to go home to Stockton where the car repeated the same steps when I got into Stockton on Hammer Lane exit. This day it did it twice.
On Feb 14th the same thing happen again driving home from Modesto, CA to Stockton, CA. Again on the freeway around the Manteca / Lathrop exit the car displayed the 4 messages and then shut down. After 5 to 10 min started again and then the car shut down when I reached Stockton 8 mile exit off 99.
The car is very unsafe and this is the 3rd time in last 4 months I had to take the car in to be looked at. Every time its assumed the car is fixed and there were no more problems but this isn’t the case because the car always engages with an issue or problem that makes it unsafe to drive. It’s unsafe to be on the freeway or on a busy intersection in town when the car decides to shut it self off.
Again the dashboard will give instructions in these steps before shutting down.
1. Service Traction Control
2. Service Stability Track
3. Traction Stability Off
4. Engine Power Reduced
This has been the worse experience with a new car that I ever had, mechanics can't even fix the issue. They think they have then the car still poses more issue after a short time after getting it back. GMC should take these cars back and make customers not feel like they got ripped off buying a car that with major problems that they know about but don't tell you when you buy the car. There has already been about 7 to 8k in money invested into fixing the car. The warranty has been saving me but I wont have the warranty for long so that worries me.
There are three methods you can use to contact the NHTSA if you suspect a safety-related defect in your vehicle. You can take any (or all) of the following actions:
Call the U.S. Department of Transportation's Vehicle Safety Hotline: (888) 327-4236 or (800) 424-9153, toll free from anywhere in the United States, Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands
Report the issue online at the NHTSA's vehicle safety Web site: http://www.safercar.gov/
Send a letter via U.S. Mail: U.S. Department of Transportation National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Office of Defects Investigation (NVS-210) 1200 New Jersey Avenue SE Washington, DC 20590
Ther website option takes just a few minutes.
I would urge Outlook, Acadia, Enclave, Traverse & some Ford model vehicle with this troubled transmission to contact the NHTSA and file a complaint online (takes 3mins), call the 1-800/888 # to report or send a letter via US Mail as soon as possible.
Call the U.S. Department of Transportation's Vehicle Safety Hotline: (888) 327-4236 or (800) 424-9153, toll free from anywhere in the United States, Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands
Report the issue online at the NHTSA's vehicle safety Web site: http://www.safercar.gov/
Send a letter via U.S. Mail: U.S. Department of Transportation National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Office of Defects Investigation (NVS-210) 1200 New Jersey Avenue SE Washington, DC 20590
Anyway, while at the dealership that day it was noted under the 'multi-point owner's inspection section' of my invoice that my tires were in great shape, the front brakes might need to be replaced (which we knew when we purchased the car), the oil was needing to be changed in the near future and there was a sign of a water pump leak but 'nothing to worry about we'll just need to keep an eye on it'. The vehicle sat in the garage for most of the weekend with only a few errands here & there. Monday 2/11/13 - I went to pick up my child from school as usual when my husband calls me in a panic 'You have leaking fluid marks on the garage floor and you should probably head over to the dealership again'. So that's what I did thinking all the while that it had something to do with the transmission repair from 4 days prior. A short time later we had the diagnosis: nope - now you need a new water pump. What happened to 'we'll just keep an eye on it'?
Saturn Outlook folks, feel free to research this item too as it appears to be a part that apparently fails quite often as well from what I've seen in this forum & online. I'm not sure if the water pump issue applies to the Acadia, Enclave, Traverse, etc. like the transmission issue clearly does or not, but it would be worth checking into. Perhaps the water pump should be on a recall list for GMC as well?!
My Outlook has 55,000 miles on it (I purchased it 15 months ago with 34,000 miles). Was in a city 220 miles from my home to visit family and the car shuddered at a stoplight and decided not to move from there. None of the gear would allow for any movement. This of course was during the lunch rush in front of one of the busiest intersections in town. My pregnant wife attempted to steer while I pushed it to the nearest parking lot 150 yards away. Luckily some good samaritans jumped out and helped me to help mitigate my embarrasment and get this P.O.S off the road.
My Outlook is now sitting in the city where it broke down and I am driving a rental car in the meantime. Luckily I have an extended warranty which SHOULD cover the repairs. I have not yet heard from the dealer that i brought it to regarding the damage. Honestly this is ridiculous. In the last month this vehicle has been in the shop more than on the road. 55,000 miles on a transmission is a joke. How can this be considered a family vehicle when i put my family at risk everytime I drive it?
Now its a waiting game and I have the added inconvenience of wasting 8 hours of my time driving back and forth to pick it up and return the rental car. I would never buy a GM again.
Sarah, GM Customer Service