2009 Toyota Camry

wwest · January 2008

Or selling just one camry/year just might be too small a sample....

mackabee · January 2008

"Or selling just one camry/year just might be too small a sample...."

That's a low blow,

wwest · January 2008

Yes, but I was smiling...

mackabee · January 2008

One of the dumbest moves Toyota Motor Sales USA has ever made by releasing a completely unchanged Camry and calling it a 2009! I truly apologize for making some assumptions about the 2009 Camry. I looked over the source book on the 09 and I don't see a single change other than a "revised" center console and one other thing that does nothing for the car.
As far as the VSC goes I couldn't find it on the standard equipment list or the options list. :confuse: I've combed through the spec book and find nothing new. Even the colors are the same. WTF?
Mackabee

210delray · January 2008

I have to agree that is lame. Why artificially shorten the '08 model year for no good reason?

wwest · January 2008

"..completely unchanged..."

Maybe not.

Suppose Toyota rushed a new transaxle into production that has a variable displacement ATF pump as a final solution for the downshift delay hesitation and the "flare" issue..?

I checked techinfo.toyota.com for new car features but that is not yet available for the 2009 Camry.

210delray · January 2008

Yeah, but even if such a change were made (and I don't necessarily agree with your logic), it could be a running change during the '08 model year. Such running changes occur all the time.

mackabee · January 2008

Exactly. I still don't see the logic behind this. They are shortening the 08 model year. Making the 09 model year longer, only to introduce the refreshed 2010 in March of 09. :confuse:
I mean, we just had the Sequoia in December, the 09 Camry in January (this month), the 09 Corolla and Matrix will debut at stores in mid-February. I wonder what's on the schedule for March? Toyota is showing the Venza at the Detroit auto show on the 14th of this month. I expect that vehicle to be here in late summer early fall of this year. Maybe they just want a 1-2-3 punch to begin the year.
Mack :shades:

mackabee · January 2008

and let's not forget the mini concept truck A-BAT. That one is also being shown at Detroit. Looks like a mini Avalanche/Ridgeline. It's aimed at the alternate lifestyle folks.
Mack

joel16 · January 2008

Glad to see you're still around (I haven't been on the forums in awhile). Maybe you can comment on the following:

I can say I am happy with my 2007 Camry XLE 4-cyl. It gets good mileage, and has been dependable so far. It is an adequate car. What would make it better in my opinion is as follows:

1. switchgear on the dash is flimsy in some cases, e.g. the dual temp control
2. dash assembly, and other parts of car, is imprecise; plastic parts don't fit together well, adjacent pieces don't line up in some cases
3. visibility out the back is bad, especially when backing up; a lip on the trunk lid would help see where the rear of the car is, or at least some marker in the design
4. no quiet glass available on the XLE (at least, not even on the V6)
5. Engine HP for 4-cyl is adequate, but should be higher; Honda Accord now has a 190HP Accord 4-cyl
6. No full size spare, or at least accomodation for a full size spare (let the customer decide whether or not they want to buy a 5-wheel and make the well big enough to hold)
7. VSC and TC not standard on all models (should be at least standard on the XLE models)
8. Pearl White Paint not offered on the Camry, but on Rav 4 all models (makes no sense to just offer flat white)
9. Seats are OK for most short trip use, but terrible for long trips. The best seats in the industry (in my opinion) are Volvo seats. Volkswagon, and even some Lexus seats are comfortable, and now, many Ford and GM cars have seats comfortable for long hauls. What would it take to make a comfortable seat?
10. No memory seats offered (at least on the XLE models). This might help with #9 above.
11. More adjustment positions for the power seats (Lexus has more positions/adjustments for the seat back and pan)
12. braking is adequate, but not great. This is also true of the Honda Accord. Specifically, stops from 60mph should be at least below 130 feet, and with the best, close to 120 feet or less; this should be true for both wet and dry braking. I know some of the reason has to do with tires and suspension. However, Mazda seems to do it, some Fords, and even the new Chevy Malibu stops in 124 feet. I think this is related to brake size.
13. Adjustable Pedals (brake and gas)....

I can't believe it's as simple as it costs too much; there has to be some marketing impression that these features and improvements are not needed. Are any of these planned improvements for future models? I believe these simple improvements would raise the Camry from Appliance status to a Great Car status (yeah, I know, they sell a ton of them anyway, regardless of how they build them).
Honda may not always hit the mark, but at least they (seem to) strive for greatness, whereas Toyota, at least with the Camry, seems to strive for average, middle of the road, no surprises (some might say boring).

mackabee · January 2008

Good observations. The horsepower debate has not been an issue since Toyota delivers on the torque. You will notice the Honda's 4 bangers offer more HP but the torque is the same as the Toyota engine. Remember, torque gets you going and HP keeps you there.

I agree the quality of the plastic pieces is not up to par. Mis aligned and ill fitting. I believe this is mainly due to the hard plastics being used.
The panel display seems to me that is very ergonomic and user friendly. This is the first I've heard a complain about it.
It's interesting you find the seats uncomfortable. We've owned three Camrys and to me this one has the best seat ever. Maybe because I'm short and I feel like I'm in a bucket seat from the 70's or 80's.

I have a herniated disc and when I drive my wife's 97 it acts up terribly. My 93 is just right but I do like the new seats. Memory seats would take it up to Avalon/Lexus ES territory. I think they want to keep a slight distance from those two.

VSC/TRAC should be standard however, some customers don't take kindly to electronic nannies.

Pearl white on Camry only is offered in special editions. Why? I have no idea. It would be nice if they offered it on all trim levels or maybe just the XLE.

Brakes have always been "mushy" in all Camrys. It's just inherent and it works well so they leave it alone.

We tried the adjustable pedals on the previous gen Camry but not many cars were built with that option and very few customers requested it.
Oh the last thing about the spare tire. I was disappointed they went with the donut spare. That was always an advantage over the Accord, Camry having a full spare. They must have a new team of bean counters at Toyota.

You must admit though, that the car has been substantially improved thru generations and the price has remained steady.
Mack

joel16 · January 2008

Yes, I will admit that the Camry has improved over time. It just seems to me with some simple improvements, it could be a great all round car. Some would say adding memory seats, etc. would cannibalize some from Lexus. When I ask friends who own Lexus vehicles why they didn't purchase a Toyota, their answer is always "because it's not a Lexus". What they're saying is they value the brand name, and the level of service they receive. Truth be told, Lexus cars are a cut above in many respects. I am no giant myself, but find the design of the lower part of the seatback to be extremley uncomfortable. I like to sit up (almost) straight when driving for better visibility and control, and the adjustments on the seats are not favorable to this position. Some of the better seats will allow the seat pan to be level, or even tilt slightly forward, without affecting the entire seat position. For shorter people, this would prevent the fron edge of the seat pan from hitting the back of the knees. If you ever get a chace to sit in either a Volvo S80 or even their new C30, or a Lexus IS model, you'll see what I'm talking about; you could spend hours in those seats. Regarding braking, under most conditions I suppose Camry brakes are OK, but emergency stops are what separates the good from the average brakes, good brakes being those that stop in short distances, with good control and feedback, and do this more than once in a row (without fade from heat up). Of course, brakes that are mismatched to the suspension will cause nosedive and/or tail lift. Quiet glass would add maybe a little weight, but what a difference in interior noise levels. Not supporting a full size spare is just plain silly, but, believe it or not, there are people who won't buy the car because of that; although there aren't that many cars with a full size spare anymore. As far as the panel display, it is OK and I agree ergonomic, however smooth plastic dials without some type of nice feeling grippy material or gnurling are hard to use, imprecise, and feel a little cheap. There are few cars that bend and manipulate plastic like Honda. You should check out the NEW Chevy Malibu interior; not perfect, but a quantum leap over what they made in the past. I went to the Charlotte Auto Show a month or so ago, and judging by the crowds around the Malibu, and the lines waiting to sit inside, I'd say it was a surprise to everyone.

So, you may ask, why don't I buy a Honda or Chevy, or Volvo? I have owned 6 Accords in the past; as I got older, I didn't like the harsher ride. The Chevy hasn't proven itself yet, and GM dealers are a bit smarmy IMHO. Volvo is expensive to maintain, and requires premium fuel. I do think Toyota makes a good car that will last longer, and be more reliable, in the long run. I had 85K trouble free miles in the Avalon. Oh well, maybe some of these improvements/features will appear in future models.

mackabee · January 2008

I have been trying to find the elusive Malibu. I've yet to see one on the road or at the dealers. If the interior of the Saturn Aura is an indication of the quality of the Malibu then they have a hit. I drove an 07 Aura we took in trade and I was very impressed, and it takes a lot to impress me. The interior is very well laid out, the fit and finish are superb. I would consider one for myself.

joel16 · January 2008

I just received a pile of magazines in the mail, including Motor Trend and Consumer Reports. Motor Trend has two interesting articles (1) the 11,306 Mile Test of the Chevy Malibu and (2) a comparison of the Camry SE-V6, Chevy Malibu LTZ, Honda Accord EX-L V-6, Nissan Altima 3.5S.

First through fourth place results for #2 above are in the order specified above, although Malibu and Accord were within inches of each other. As for the Toyota, it's transmission and overall performance are above the pack in SE guise.

Consumer Reports tested the new Accord, Ford Taurus, Kia Amanti, Subaru Legacy and Dodge Avenger this month. The Avenger was completely trashed by CR (based on the tests, looks like a real stinker). However, the order of best sedans now for CR is Nissan Altima, Honda Accord, Kia Optima, Toyota Camry, Hyundai Sonata, Ford Fusion, Mercury Milan. For LARGE Sedans, Toyota Avalon is on top. Accord fell from top for transmission and mpg. This says to me the next gen for the Camry will need to be something special.

mackabee · January 2008

I've been saying all along the V6 SE is the one to beat. It is an awesome car, very under rated by the general public. Go try one and let me know what you think. I drove one quite a few times and it's a beauty. That would be the Camry I would buy for my personal use. The wife would get an LE.

Mackabee

deerlake7 · January 2008

Mack - Does your '09 Camry product book show any exterior, or interior color changes? Talked to my dealer today and they have very little in the way of information. Their first allocation comes through 1/14, with production starting in early February. I'm on the list, but I'm trying to decide on the color. Hope all is well. Thanks.

mackabee · January 2008

Nope, same colors and interiors as 08.
Mack

exploder750 · January 2008

Toyota should get a marketing award for this ploy! It's quite obvious Toyota wants to get the quality blunders of 2007 Camry behind them, but doubtful that renumbering the year will make it any better other than to fool a few unsuspecting buyers into believing this 2 year old model is all new.

wilbon · January 2008

You mention you get good mileage with your Camry. I have a 4 cyl 2007 Camry LE. The best I can get in town driving is 19.5 On a trip about 25 mpg. Could you let me know what you are getting. My dealership "promised" me I would get 24 - 28 around town and 35 on a trip. Totally not true!!

mackabee · January 2008

You must have a lead foot!

What speeds are you driving the car at?

caaz · January 2008

I just purchased an 03 LE auto 4 cyl. I travel weekly froom Phoenix to So Cal. Go to camry real world mpg. At 75 mph i average 33.1 And at 70 mph i averaged 35.2 mpg.. Easy on the take offs and USE ur cruise control...If the light turns yellow in the city, let the gas off immediately..you'll be surprised how well the camry rolls without losing speed. My next weeks trip will be at 65 Mph. All these trips are 405 miles. I'm shooting for 37-38 MPG.

Good Luck

Caaz

saidiadude · January 2008

My mom has a 2007 LE 4Cyl which has been very reliable and fun to drive. Unfortunately, it has a huge blind spot with regards to the passenger side "C" pillar. A small car could drive in that blind spot and you wouldn't see it if you turned your head to look in the direction of the C pillar. Obviously, you have to use the side mirror to check this blind spot. The height of the driver doesn't seem to matter - we've had drivers 5'4" to 6'+ drive the car and all have commented on the blind spot (without being asked). Has the C pillar on the '09 been modified to reduce this blind spot? The wife is trying to decide between an Accord and the Camry and this is a big deal for her.

wilbon · January 2008

I had the same problem. After I nearly side-swiped a car, I immediately went to Wal-Mart and got two of those little "wide angle convex" mirrors and put them on the regular side mirrors. They are great!! I can now see anyone that might be in the original blindspot. Good luck.

mackabee · January 2008

No mods have been done to the car. It's essentially the same car.

saidiadude · January 2008

Thanks, I'll do that. I had a '90 Isuzu Amigo that also had a very bad blind spot in the same area. The little stick on mirrors helped quite a bit. I also replaced the rear view mirror with a 5 panel rear view mirror by Wink. That made a huge difference, but is not an option for my mom's Camry.

saidiadude · January 2008

Thanks Mack. I thought that there was a minor model refresh every 2 years. Did Toyo move to a different model? I haven't kept up with the Auto news lately. Hopefully they'll fix the blind spot in the 2010 model.

mackabee · January 2008

The refresh for the Camry is every three years so the 2010 will be redone but usually it's very minor like a bumper change, headlights, tail lights, and grille. Nothing on the body itself so the C-pillar will be the same.
MACK

wwest · January 2008

You can often contact a UK dealer and buy the UK passenger side convex mirror.

freemblap · January 2008

Hmmm...I went to my Toyota dealer today and they knew nothing of the 2009 Camry being introduced, yet it's the 21st.

I also informed them of your thread regarding the nose of the Camry being shaped that way in case of pedestrian accidents.

They then put jumper cables on my nipples and hooked me up to a 2020 Seqoia that hits the streets next week. (you heard it here)

I STILL believe everything you say.

caaz · January 2008

Hope those jumper cables werent on a 12 volt...Anyway.. MACK.... doesnt toyota redo every 5 years on the camry?.... thats been typical in the pastso 2012 will be all new, correct? Anyway.... thx for the constant updates.

Caaz
p.s. I really enjoy my 03 camry, i actually hit 40 mpg at 65 mph on my last trip.

mackabee · January 2008

That doesn't surprise me at all. Even my sales managers didn't know. Production begins Feb 02, 2007. I have two Hybrids 09 on my allocation already. They will be at dealerships about a week to 10 days later. {)p
Mack aka Your number 1 source for information irt Toyota :shades:

mackabee · January 2008

You are correct unless they pull a Corolla on us like they did with the current gen Corolla that is on the sixth year of production.
Mack
If they didn't know they have an 09 Camry then I wouldn't worry about the jumper cables. They will probably connect the cables to the starter and not the battery.

davejoy · January 2008

Sorry to bust everyone's bubble - But the 2009 Camry LE model does not have the stability control included in the basic package. I've seen the dealer invoices for the ones that are on the way and it is not included (same as 2008 model) as part of the LE's basic package.

saidiadude · January 2008

Did you get a chance to see what's new on the 2009 SE 4cyl? If so, will Stability Control be standard? Moon/Sun roof?

saidiadude · January 2008

Pricing info is up now: linkie

abanner · January 2008

Like I said back in November, exact same car as 2008.
You can buy a 2008 Accord or a "newer" 2009 Camry.
Toyota looks a little desperate trying to counter the all new Accord.

mackabee · January 2008

There's no desperation on Toyota's part. The Camry is still superior to the new Accord. Camry is not lacking in the sales department. It outsold the Accord in 2007 and Toyota is not about to give up the crown.
Mack

abanner · January 2008

Unlike Honda, Toyota has a large fleet sales department.
Check out the car rental lots and look at all the Corolla's, Camry's and Avalon's.....no Honda accord in sight. That's why Toyota and GM are neck and neck with units sold.
Toyota desperately wants to be #1 and changing the model year date on a 5 month old model is all about marketing......... "2009" Camry vs 2008 Accord.

gooddeal2 · January 2008

Toyota looks a little desperate trying to counter the all new Accord.

Yeb...been thinking the same here. I don't care too much if it's a new design but there's no need to get out the same car (NOT even any minor changes) this early.

motownusa · January 2008

I don't think Toyota has anything to worry about. The new Accord sedan looks ugly and bloated. I am sure it is a nice car but man is it ugly. The Camry should easily outsell this pig

wwest · January 2008

"..no Honda accord in sight..."

You don't suppose Honda has no need, requirement, to sell at the discounted price demanded by the rental companies...??

matt15 · January 2008

I have a friend that used to work for Carmax with a Toyota dealership and he stated they would love to have a Honda dealership but Honda wants to have control on pricing. Carmax and Fitzmall.com in Montgomery county, Md. both sell Toyotas near or below invoice. Honda, in everyday dealings won't allow this.
This same person now works for a large rental car company and in one of their largest locations with excess of 275 cars they have 2 Toyotas and no Hondas. Most of the cars are from the american big three. There are not nearly as many Toyotas in rental fleets compared to GM.

mackabee · January 2008

That's hogwash. Our Honda dealership sell Accords at invoice or slightly above and there's a few around here that do the same. The Accord is not a museum piece. Honda USA could care less what the dealers sell the cars for after they bought the cars from them. That's why there's a disclaimer on the MSRP label. "Dealers set their own prices" or words to that effect.
:shades:

wwest · January 2008

"dealers set their own prices."

Hogwash.....

That's probably true in many states where the dealers have managed to get state laws passed in their favor, but in many states the manufacturers still has, exhibits, a high level of control over product sales price, marketing, etc.

When you have to sign a document at sale stating that you are aware that the dealer is in no way responsible for warranty coverage or work you can bet the manufacturer has little oversight or control in that state.

Honda doesn't care how much the dealer charges after the dealer has bought the car from them...."

No individual car, UNIT, sale, manufacturer/dealer wise, is complete in and of itself.

mackabee · January 2008

"When you have to sign a document at sale stating that you are aware that the dealer is in no way responsible for warranty coverage or work you can bet the manufacturer has little oversight or control in that state"
Baloney. I've never seen such a document.
:shades:

wayne21 · January 2008

I think Toyota's quest to be number one may eventually be quite costly. They seem to be doing the ford/gm thing of flooding the rental market with cars while giving up on quality. The most recent consumer reports magazine rated the camry as "less than average reliability" - this cud also be translated as a 2 of 5 stars. It's sad when the camry with "2 of 5 stars" and the accord with above average reliability "4 of 5 stars" are less reliable than the 4 cylinder hyundai sonata. Obviously, someone has quality on the back burner and it may cost both companies. I have been reading these posts for several months and find it interesting that dealers / dealer reps have to come on here (often in the open, but usually acting as interested buyers) to tout their products and to keep their prices up. The market usually catches up with them.
We were hunting for a replacement for our accord (no troubles except one transmission replaced under warranty - a long standing problem for honda). We drove a 2008 camry 6 cyl xle and were not impressed. I would not own this car. And if they haven't fixed their transmission problems they had on the 2007/8 the 2009 won't be any improvement. We drove a 2007 accord and it was no better than our 2000 accord - may drive the 2008 soon. I have never even been in a hyundai, but after reading consumer reports I may actually drive one for the first time.
I do appreciate the crossflow of information, though, as it has given us a lot of good ideas - once we filter out the dealer/dealer reps inputs.

mcdawgg · January 2008

"They seem to be doing the ford/gm thing of flooding the rental market with cars while giving up on quality. The most recent consumer reports magazine rated the camry as "less than average reliability" - this cud also be translated as a 2 of 5 stars."

Two corrections - Consumer reports only rated the V6 less than average, NOT the I4, which is the vast majority of Camry sales. This was due to the V6 transmission.

I would not say that Toyota is "flooding" the rental market, because I think it is around 10% or less. I am sure someone will have the exact numbers, and I can say for certain that it is significantly less than Ford/GM. Honda also sells to the rental market, although less than Toyota.

As you have experienced, and as you can read about on some other forums here at CarSpace, Honda has had transmission problems with the Accord, Civic, and Odyssey. Consumer Reports has given some Hondas in the recent past black dots or half black dots for the transmission (meaning avoid them). I am sure that both Toyota and Honda will solve the problems though.

wwest · January 2008

I have copies from Ford & Chrysler, probably others, where do you want them sent.

WA state.

matt15 · January 2008

So where is your dealership located? I know that in Md. there are no Honda dealers that sell Accords at or near invoice, unless is is an end of model run. they do not have pricing like fitzmall.com where a new model will sell for invoice or perhaps 3 to 500 over invoice. Believe me, in the past I have tried to get an Accord down around invoice and Honda dealers just won't do it.

Wasn't there some litigation back in the 1980's against Honda for dealer price fixing. I believe this was on the Federal level.

mackabee · January 2008

Virginia Beach Va.

I remember the scandal or read about it. Some dealers were providing favors to factory reps in order to get more inventory. I remember in the 80's Hondas were pre-sold before they hit the dealers lots. A friend of mind bought a Civic at full MSRP plus addendum. CA dealers have or had a habit of putting ADM stickers on all cars. It was a good time to be a Honda salesperson.
Mack :shades:

2009 Toyota Camry

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