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2009 Subaru Forester

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Comments

  • PanosPanos Member Posts: 14
    yup, only the 2.5X comes in a manual. It would be nice to see a 5 or even a 6 speed manual in the XT. A faster shifting 5 speed auto wouldn't be much to ask for either!
  • foresterxtforesterxt Member Posts: 2
    I would agree. I've got an 04 XT manual, Love it! I couldn't believe Subaru dropped the manual. :mad:
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Have you driven many other AWD vehicles in similar situations? It is actually a common trait and something I use as part of my test drives. I get on gravel or snow and turn the wheel then hit the gas. The on-demand AWD from FWD default like the Toyota or Honda will slip the front wheels and then power up the rear which feels like a kick in the pants and can snap the back end around too. The Subie version feels more smooth in the power transition, but gas will still spin out the tail as it will for on any vehicle putting power to the rear wheels. You have to be more gentle with the throttle than you would with a FWD vehicle; full time AWD vehicles need to be driven differently. Get into a parking lot and play with it - often. After a while you'll see what makes the car oversteer and what can make it understeer and how to correct both simply by turning the wheel and varying the throttle.
    Now I found the Subie VDC to be the least intrusive, but that also means the least active. I feel very comfortable with the level of traction and stability control it offers. I hated the Toyo at the other end of the spectrum it still slid, but the VDC set off an annoying audible alarm and you could feel power being cut and coming back on and there was even kickback at the wheel. What I disliked about that was the fact I couldn't tell what it was doing to make my own adjustments and actually felt like I was fighting the vehicle. That being said, the Toyo was the hardest to slide. I've been driving RWD, 4WD and AWD vehicles without VDC for over 25 winters so I much prefer the Subie, but for my Nanny driving the kids in icy conditions, I'd prefer the Toyota. I'd put the Honda in between the other two.
    For most situations, I'll bet that folks coming from FWD vehicles just need to be more gentle with the throttle. The FWD doesn't punish too much acceleration, but AWD vehicles will. With all 4 wheels gripping, you can be more conservative with the throttle and still get moving. Just wait until most of the turn is completed before getting on the gas heavily.
  • redherring1redherring1 Member Posts: 66
    Finally had a chance to drive the '09 XT Ltd. in significant snow--got 5" the other day in Chicago with about 8 more to come today. Gotta tell you, this thing is magic in the snow--pulls like a tractor. I actually liked it better before they plowed, because once they did more of the underlying ice was exposed and then it didn't do as well. I noticed the 4 wheel drift tendency when accelerating through a corner also, but it's very predictable and therefore controllable, unlike my old CRV--in that, which was front wheel drive only until slippage was detected, usually the rear wheels would engage halfway through a corner which had the tendency to push you straight ahead. You could anticipate it somewhat, but since slippage is erratic it was much harder to control than the Forester. My daughter banged it into a curb and bent the front suspension as a result of this.

    I haven't notice the wheel well buildup like some others have, but it was only about 15 degrees when the snow fell which makes it a lot less sticky.
  • billwvbillwv Member Posts: 48
    "From what i've been reading, for automatic foresters, the AWD system sends 90% of the power to the front and 10% to the rear in D in normal conditions. Switch it down to manual mode in gears 1 and 2 and you'll have 50/50 front and rear"

    Can anyone confirm this, or point me toward a reference -- I find it interesting.

    Thanks,

    Bill
  • PanosPanos Member Posts: 14
    Hey Bill,
    It briefly mentions this in the owners manual as a "driving tip" but its not very detailed. In the 09' owners manual on 7-19 under "Driving Tips" its says:

    "On a road surface where there is a risk of wheel spin (for example, a snow- or gravel covered road), you can pull away from a stand still (safely and easily) by first selecting the 2nd gear of the manual mode. "

    It has been discussed on Subaru forums all over the web and other sites, here are a few i found:

    http://web.torek.net/torek/car/forester-mtat.html

    http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f89/awd-basic-description-operation-4352- 8/

    http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f89/if-its-awd-then-why-only-one-wheel-s- pinning-45111/
  • bigfrank3bigfrank3 Member Posts: 426
    That statement has been in the manual of every Forester I have owned, since 2001. It simply means that when 2 is selected the vehicle starts in 2nd gear to reduce the torque application to the wheels.

    My salesman, who attends all the classes Subaru provides, assures me that the only time the 90/10 changes is when there is slippage or when accelerating beyond a certain tip-in point with the throttle, no matter what gear you are in.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    ...was that for the AT equipped foresters, the AWD constantly adjusts power sent to front and back, and is able to send 100% of power to either the front or the rear.

    I do not know if Subaru changed anything in the AWD system for 2009. But I've not seen any front wheel slip or other characteristics suggesting 90% of the power is normally going up there.
    Then again, only Subaru engineers know for sure :)
  • billwvbillwv Member Posts: 48
    Thanks for the links -- interesting information.

    Still seems to be some disagreement as per the post after yours.

    In any case, its seems starting out in "2" is best way to go on very slippery surfaces, and with VDC off if much spinning is expected.

    Thanks,

    p.s. still waiting for a good snow to try mine out here in West Virginia.

    Bill
  • PanosPanos Member Posts: 14
    I didn't think of that, actually. Obviously starting out in 2nd gear is recommended in slippery surfaces. So that makes sense. Looking more into this i also saw people mentioning that you also get 50/50 at full throttle and also in reverse...i don't know how true that is...

    The 50/50 power transfer in 1st and 2nd gear i've seen mentioned on numerous sites online. I still haven't tested it out myself. We're supposed to get 8-12" of snow by tonight! So i'll try to test this out for myself. I have dedicated winter tires also. First time i get to try the subaru in the snow :shades:
  • bigfrank3bigfrank3 Member Posts: 426
    According to the "Subaru Pocket Guide to AWD" that I have, there is always some power going to all 4 wheels so that suggests it can never be 100% either way.

    I could be losing my mind, but I am pretty sure that I read somewhere that the duty-cycle of the solenoid in the transfer case cannot send more than 50% of the power to the rear (auto). I thought this info was in that same document but it wasn't. I will have to look through the ton of documents I have been collecting on Subaru since 2001. The manual gets adjusted by the shear of the fluid in the viscous coupling, no electronics.

    I specifically asked my salesman about the 09 and he said he asked that question at the class, and they told him that they didn't change anything, it works exactly like the previous years. He and I were both hoping for the default 90/10 to go to 45/55.
  • bigfrank3bigfrank3 Member Posts: 426
    I believe the 50/50 is correct at full throttle.

    We are getting snow now here in SE Mass. I remember the first snow with my first Forester back in 2001, so I understand your anticipation. I loved it then and still do. Neither my wife or I have ever used anything other than the usual all-season tires that come with the Foresters, except when my wife wore out her Geos and bought Michelins, and neither of us have ever had a problem. Good ground clearance and a good AWD system are hard to beat. Some of our friends get sick of us raving about the winter capability, except those that have also gone and bought Subarus, now they rave too.

    Have fun, and stay safe!
  • PanosPanos Member Posts: 14
    Frank, I'm also in MA. I took the forester for a quick drive since the snow has covered the roads right now. This is my first time with dedicated winter tires. My previous SUV was a nightmare in the snow with the oem all-seasons it came with...without 4WD it was useless. So now that this is our only car and since my fiancee will be driving it too, i didn't even want to try the Geolanders in the snow.

    It's pretty nasty out there. I saw a plow truck do almost a 180° going around a turn. The Forester was great! Only time it would break loose was when i would purposely push it and take sharp turns, but even then it quickly gained traction and it was very predictable. It also stopped well, only time the ABS kicked in was when i would hit the brakes hard, the ABS would come on briefly and the car would come to a stop quickly. Even going downhill i could stop with no problem. Driving normal the forester was solid and wouldn't lose traction. I tried both D and gears 1 and 2 in manual mode, and when i did a couple quick starts from a stop, i could feel the forester break loose, but AWD was quick to work and gained traction. In gear 1, when i did a quick start there was no loss of traction....I called it quits cause it's rush hour and too many cars sliding around out there! I'll go to an empty parking lot later on and do some more test between D and manual mode.
  • bigfrank3bigfrank3 Member Posts: 426
    My wife just got home from work and also said it is nasty. We have about 5" already, and it is very heavy. It is coming down hard. Our total is supposed to be a bit less than the rest of the state, except for the Cape, because of the moisture content, but it sure makes it hard to move around.

    She said the highway hadn't been touched yet and there were cars stuck on inclines, some off the road, and some spinning out. She just drove around all that stuff without any problems. That is what we have come to expect with our Foresters. It would make a great commercial.

    It is kind of cool on those occasions when you feel the front wheels start to slip a little, and you can feel the power shift to the rear and almost shoot you forward as if someone hit you in the rear.

    I am sure your winter tires give you an advantage, but I have to tell you, neither of us have ever said we wished we had different tires on the vehicles. Even my 2 bottom-of-the-line Foresters with the cheap Bridgestones were never a problem. My Premium and her Bean have the Geos with the LSD and that is a help.

    Are you north, and getting the light fluffy stuff? We rarely get that, too bad.
  • PanosPanos Member Posts: 14
    I'm actually about 7 miles SW of Boston and the snow is wet and very heavy over here also. Glad to hear the Geo's aren't that bad in the snow. I was hearing nothing but terrible things about the Geo's. People were saying they were good for the first 10k mile, after that they were terrible in the winter weather :confuse:

    The winter tires are great, i have to admit. They do give you an advantage that's for sure.
  • camrytimes2camrytimes2 Member Posts: 31
    I live west of Boston very close to the interchange of routes 90 and 95. I hand shoveled the very lightweight snowbank this a.m. and backed the Forester out of the garage and down the driveway without a problem. There was probably only about 6" to 8" of light snow on the driveway. Took the car for a test drive, too. The performance was very good. I turned the stability control off, as recommended in forums. Starting on steep inclines very slowly, there was no perceptable uncontrolled wheel spin. I drove up a steep unpaved road with "rolling" terrain that had been plowed as best as possible given the poor condition of the road. I felt as though I perceived power being transferred "from the wheels that slipped to the wheels that gripped", but it may have been my imagination. In any case, there was some extra wheel spinning - which was fine since not a one of my previous vehicles would have negotiated that road under the same conditions. I'm not complaining about the traction - but I seem to think that my sister's '08 performed slightly better under similar road conditions. Differences that come to mind are that there were also passnengers in her car when I drove it and she has a limited slip differential. Does the addition of a limited slip differential make a significant difference in performance? We both have 'Geosqueelers.'
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    The worry I have about Subaru LSD's is they seem to contribute to unstable handling in some situations, an apparant trait of many LSD's.
    Nissan had to specially engineer their GT-R's LSD to eliminate trailing throttle oversteer. That feature's not in the simpler LSD's Subaru used in Forester, and continues to use in Legacy/Outback.

    So far my '09 XT's been good in the snow, except if I decide to jam on the throttle (which swings the tail out), or hit a wet icy patch too fast (tires loose grip and it slides).
    I don't know how the stock XT Geolanders compare to Nokians, though - I ditched the Geolanders before the storms hit Oregon.
  • birdboybirdboy Member Posts: 158
    Driving upstate New york has been a good experience for me with my 09 LLBean AT. The tire grip on the stock tires so far has been good. There is 8 inches down with another 5-8 expected tomorrow. Even driving in the slush and very wet roads has been secure with no evidence of tire spin or slip. Kindly review with me why the recommendation to turn off stability control. Pros and cons. Thanks in advance. Happy holidays and safe driving to all
  • billwvbillwv Member Posts: 48
    The only situation I am aware of when you should turn off VDC is when you are stuck and expect the wheels to spin alot as you free the vehicle -- possibility rocking forward and backward -- VDC traction control would cut engine power in an attempt to get traction, so, if you want to avoid this, turn VDC off.

    Bill
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    A lot more snow today and still coming down - 4" and more. This gave the XT workout wrt keeping windows clear, as well as traction. VDC/TC was on all the time.

    Good: No traction problems; XT, now christened "White Fang", just went where I pointed it. Wheels occasionally grumbled looking for traction, but no prolonged wheel spins or loss of power. ABS kicked in occasionally when braking. Rear window defogger and mirror defoggers worked fine. Front side windows stayed free of ice buildup once heater was at full temperature.

    Bad: Snow tends to build up and freeze at the top of the windshield, interfering with wiper action. Every so often I had to stop and scrape it off, or try running defroster at maximum heat to minimize buildup. Snow also pours off back of car onto rear window: rear wiper gets rid of most of it, but occasionally that needs to be cleared too.
  • bikerguy3bikerguy3 Member Posts: 43
    It's been fun reading everyone's posts regarding their snow experiences with their new Foresters...now it's my turn...I live near Portland, and had tickets to the Battle in Seattle [go zags!] in Seattle on Saturday. No way I was gonna miss the game - snowstorm or not - so we made the trek (about 360 miles up & back).

    We encountered quite a combination of snow (both dry and heavy/wet, with acumulations up to 9"), wind, cold (mid 20's F), freezing rain, etc. As my '09 Forester is my first Subaru, I wasn't sure what to expect. I was NOT disapointed! I don't know if it is the AWD system, the vehicle weight, ground clearance, or other factors (or a combination of?) but what people say is true....the Forester is a snow machine! I had no issues with traction or control or slideouts, etc. The Forester easily outperformed AWD vehicles I've previously owned (XL-7, Sante Fe, Murano).
    [FYI - my Forester is manual xmission version].

    I only managed to get the VDC to kick in once, going thru a section of super deep packed snow left by a snowplow. The sensation was a bit weird (could feel braking and throttling down occurring without my inputs), but seeing the VDC light flashing told me to just let it do it's thing...and we got thru it no problem.

    The only negative I encountered (which was posted by someone else already) is that there is significant ice buildup on the wiper blades at hiway speeds. I had to run full defrost at high fan speed [and I've previously b**tched about how noisy the fan is!]. Then I had to crack open the rear windows to cool down the overheated interior!

    So - my recommendation to those evaluating the Forester's capabilities in inclement weather is to consider it a superior vehicle - probably the best in it's class. But definitely get the All Weather Package option (with heated seats and windshield wiper heating).

    Happy Holidays to All!
  • tentoes49tentoes49 Member Posts: 4
    Hi all,
    I see that everyone is commenting on how their new Forrester is doing in the snow, so I will report what I can. I purchased a 09 premium, with auto trans, and all weather package. This was at the end of July. This is my first Subaru, and my first vehicle with all wheel drive. I live in Omaha, NE. We are a very hilly city but have no major mountains or anything like that.
    My first time driving in marginal conditions was two weeks ago when I went to Iowa City to see my new grandson. I had 200 miles of rain/sleet/snow on the way back. My eye was glued to the thermometer in the dash display the whole time back. If it got to 33-32 degrees I was going to slow down. I was also gaging oncoming traffic
    to see if it was slowing. Speeds were between 60-70 mph. At no time did I ever feel out of control, or even feel a slip. I was amazed.
    This last week we had 1/2' of rain/sleet/ice with about 3" of snow on top of it. I have been having a blast going up hills. Some I even stop half way up them, than start up again just to see if I can.
    I am really amazed at this car. Like others I have noticed that the top of the windshield collects ice, and inter fears with the wiper action. I just had remote start put on it and this morning at -1 degree I let it warm up for about 10 minutes. If these Geo lander tires are considered bad, I cant understand why.
    Anyway, I am really impressed with the car.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    Good that your Geos are working for you. From what I've read Geolanders are good in snow, less so on ice. Since we get a ton of ice in Portland (freeze/thaw predicted for the next few days), I errored on side of caution with Nokians.

    Today it was sleeting and snowing - 24 to 26 degrees F. Snow was 4 - 6" on side roads, less so on main. White Fang ('09 XT) did fine, including starting up from dead stop into 4 - 6" unplowed snow, on a small hill yet.

    My workaround for upper windshield ice is to spray a little Prestone "ice melt" on the top of the windshield. That and the defroster seem to keep it at bay. :)

    Still we had some real idiots out there today; yahoo pickup trucks trying for 40 mph, etc.

    Also saw for first time an '09 XT other than mine; a Red one, covered with snow, and on stock Geolanders. It was doing ok in the same snow as mine.
  • bigfrank3bigfrank3 Member Posts: 426
    My wife puts more mileage on her Forester than I do, and we have found that on both of the ones she has had you can start to see a difference in the snow performance as you approach 30K miles. It didn't become dangerous or anything, just different.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    How so different? Could it be wear on the tires?

    The Nokians I have are guaranteed for 50K miles, but when their tread gets to 6 - 8 mm, it's probably time to replace them.
  • bigfrank3bigfrank3 Member Posts: 426
    If there was a real difference I would bet it was the passengers. Extra weight is a big help, especially between the wheels. Load up the car with some of your fat friends and if the car moves at all you will feel unstoppable in the snow. :)

    I remember one of my earlier Foresters that I had put a few bags of bird seed in the hatch, right against the rear seat-back. They were 35 pound bags. I noticed a difference for the better in the snow performance almost right away. The vehicle felt more balanced and capable. I actually left them in the back for a while until I needed to use them.

    I am talking small differences here because the car is pretty well balanced and capable right out of the box, but it was noticeable. Of our 5 Foresters 2 had no LSD, and frankly, I don't see a noticeable difference. I am sure it is better to have than not have, and under the right conditions would be a bonus. I saw much more difference with the weight of the bird seed.
  • bigfrank3bigfrank3 Member Posts: 426
    It was definitely the wear. We get a lot of ice here too, and until then the tracking on curves and such felt very confident. It became less so around 30K. Again, no problems, just a different feel. Both her Foresters returned to the normal feel with replacement of the tires. The tires still had meat on them, but as you, she wanted to err on the side of cautiousness.
  • pgb0517pgb0517 Member Posts: 84
    My '09 Forester LL Bean was rear-ended when it was less than six months old and had less than 6K on the odometer; not our fault, the other party was fully insured, and over $6,000 in repairs are complete. Now I want to pursue a diminished value claim. The posts I've found are way out of date, and I believe that DV claims have gotten easier in the last few years. The other insurer is offering $1,100, which I believe is way too low. Our dealer says about $3,000, but I understand dealers are not considered impartial. Does anyone have experience with any of the appraisers you can find online, such as Appraisal Group of America (autoloss.com)?
  • bigfrank3bigfrank3 Member Posts: 426
    FWIW my first Forester was an "L" model, equivalent to the "X" today, and it was a 5-speed. Of the 5 we have owned I still feel that one was the best overall in handling, and especially in the snow. I like the 50/50 split front to rear and think that helps with the overall balance. That one had no LSD either.

    I have not been dissatisfied with any of the ones we have had with the auto, and in fact moved to my current 06 Premium for the power seat, moonroof, and the AWP which was standard then. I moved away from the 5-speed because I have size 13W feet, and I kept hitting the gas and the brake at the same time. I am 6'3" and I find the power seat gives a little more leg room.
  • MplsmanMplsman Member Posts: 11
    Weekend of snow, wind, and very low temps in Minnesota. Had the X Premium since Tuesday. The vehicle has performed marvelously. Tried to get "into trouble" yesterday, seeking out drifts, unplowed roads, etc., and couldn't. My early impression is of a very sure-footed vehicle, with lots of feedback. I've really never had so much fun driving a car.

    As has been noted elsewhere, the wheelguards/mudflaps are like big scoops. They collect the packed snow and don't let it go. You can't just kick these things like I have on other cars to clear the snowpack; too flimsy. I've got a feeling these won't last two winters.

    Also, decided to crank the heat this afternoon (about 10 degrees out) and found the Forester to produce some serious BTUs. Never felt such hot air pouring out of car vents before. Don't know what purpose this serves, but it is notable.
  • birdboybirdboy Member Posts: 158
    Hello everyone, I have an 09 LLBean AT Forrester. I truly love the car despite the usual posted complaints regarding the interior. I have put 10,000miles happy, trouble free on it within the 7 months that I have it. I recently was mailed an offering from Subaru of America for a 6 year 60,000 added security coverage for $564.00 which covers major mechanical components. I have never taken an extended warranty on a reliable car. Can you share your opinions on this with me and others. Thanks and Happy Holidays !
  • bigfrank3bigfrank3 Member Posts: 426
    There is no hurry, you can get that warranty anytime before the factory one is up, with no price difference. You can also get it through any dealer, and the price seems to be negotiable.

    I have never taken an extended warranty on anything, so it is a roll the dice situation. With our Subarus we generally sell them to someone before the 5 years is up, and buy another. No one that has bought any of ours has had a problem with anything, so the odds seem pretty good.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    At first, I wasn't all that thrilled by hot air pouring out the side vents, but have noticed that extra air flow helps melt ice on the side windows, and is cut back when heating is set to full defrost. The latter's an improvement over most of the Japanese heating systems I've had over many years..

    Yes, it get downright hot inside the Forester with the heat full up, even in 20 degree weather. The engine also starts producing usable heat within a few minutes of start-up.

    Wrt loosing some snow grip as tires age, my guess is by 30K the sipes are mostly worn off the tires, and the rubber (either by aging or being worn down) had become harder. That would improve the summer grip, but hurt winter performance.
    That's what everything I have read about tires suggested.
  • jopopsyjopopsy Member Posts: 65
    Hey Gang,

    My 09 Forester suffers from the door rattles that I have seen posted earlier. My problem is, this morning the damned thing was quiet as a church mouse - the car is scheduled to go in for service tomorrow to address the rattles.

    This will be the second time the car goes in for the door rattles (they couldn't find them the first time). It seems hit or miss, but when the doors rattle they really do rattle quite a bit.

    Any advice? I'd hate to send it back for them not to find anything again, and I'm really stumped as to why this morning there are no rattles. Its so cold out here in NE PA (11 degrees this AM) that I thought for sure I'd get MORE rattles ..... *shrug* ????

    Thanks in advance,
    Jopopsy
  • tinycadontinycadon Member Posts: 287
    Mplsman: I keep a meat thermometer in the car to check on the a/c temps in the summer to make sure that it's operating at the right temp, I'm very picky about a/c. Well for $#!*$ and giggles I decided to throw it in the vent the other day and check the heat temp. 174 degrees!
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    yes those dumb rattles come and go.
    I've been seeing them reappear in my XT front doors after the fix, but now only if it's around 25 and the engine is idling when cold.
    The dealer improved them the first time, but may have to revisit the fix, which involves adding insulation between the door metal and plastic.

    you may have to leave the car overnight to let it get good and cold. Then when it's started up, hopefully the rattles will appear.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    Snow continues in Portland OR. Most roads have 4" or more of packed snow and in many cases deep ruts lined with ice. The ruts are causing all kinds of problems for most vehicles.

    Today the XT met its match. Driving along around 20 mph, I needed to change lanes and waited until there was a good space between me and other vehicles.
    However, White Fang's (the XT's) wheels, when turned, attempted to climb the 4" deep icy ruts, failed to get traction, and let the vehicle lurch back into the ruts.

    Using more gas the next time I tried this, the XT simply lurched out of the ruts, lost all grip and spun 180 degrees to face traffic coming towards me. Fortunately they were quite a ways back and going slow, giving me time to back up 180 degrees and turn back to going the right direction. If they had been closer or going faster, I could have been broadsided. :surprise:

    This was the first demonstration of the Nokian's main weakness: they did not handle wet ice all that well when turning. It may be a particular part of the tire that is susceptible to this (the outer edges, perhaps).

    Anyway, I'm off the roads until they plow that mess or I can get to a place to buy cable chains (not sure the Auto Socks will be up to that sort of thing either, as they do not cover the sides of the tires, only the lower tread). Right now cable chains are a precious commodity in Portland - stores are virtually sold out of them.

    .
  • robm2robm2 Member Posts: 53
    Ruts are always dangerous. Try not to get in them, in the first place. If you are in them, you need to be going slow to get out of them, or (as you saw for yourself) you will almost certainly lose control.

    Going down side-streets, I always stay out of the ruts. It's more fun, anyway, to blaze a new trail beside the ruts.
  • jopopsyjopopsy Member Posts: 65
    I dropped the appointment for the interim. I have to say, the cheaper interior becomes more noticeable as you drive it around.

    That being said, I do like everything else about the car.
  • billwvbillwv Member Posts: 48
    Wet ice is the worst condition -- glad you did not have a serious mishap.

    In my 50 years of driving I have had 6 or seven 4WD/AWD vehicles, and have gotten every one of them stuck -- but, in some "very clever" ways!!

    In fact, I have been stuck more times in AWD than in 2WD vehicles -- the extra traction can cause overconfidence.

    Still not enough snow, here, to try out my 09 Forester, my first Subaru -- I bet I can get it stuck!

    Just kidding -- I hope I have enough sense to be over cautious.

    Bill
  • jopopsyjopopsy Member Posts: 65
    They're baaaaaacccckkkkk.

    Damned rattles. My 05 was as solid as they come.
  • robm2robm2 Member Posts: 53
    I've gotten 2WD vehicles stuck several times, but always easy to get un-stuck with a couple people pushing.

    I've gotten 4WD vehicles stuck several times, but always so badly that it required a winch and/or tow vehicle to pull it out.

    The 4WD vehicles I've owned have never gotten stuck where the 2WD vehicles would have ... but I also would never have driven the 2WD vehicles where I was driving the 4WD vehicles.

    4WD can be a lot of fun.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, we're certainly enjoying the heck out of the seat heaters, but our Forester still hasn't seen any snow at all. It's been cold, just no precipitation.

    I'll make sure to get a feel for these OE tires before I do much with it.

    My 98 (5MT) was great in the snow, especially with snow tires. With all seasons I could break traction but still control it well - it would wag the tail but always seemed to pull itself out of the slide. Quite fun, to be honest.

    Our 09 is an auto so I'll report back any difference I note.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Kurt: I think the variation in handling reports has everything to do with expectations. People thinking "tall WRX" may feel disappointed, while people coming out of even softer crossovers will be thrilled.

    As for test drive variance, I bet tire pressure is also a big issue. Dealers usually do not air down until delivery.

    265hp Forester? I doubt it. Keep in mind the WRX only gets that engine with the manual tranny, and the Forester XT is auto only.

    Warranty? I had a Subaru Gold on the 2002 Legacy, and it helped me sell the car, plus we got roadside assistance for the full 7 years. I'd say it was worth it. We only had some minor issues that the warranty addressed, but it was a *major* selling point for the used car. I think we got a lot of the cost back, plus piece of mind because the seller can go to Subaru if they have a problem - I'm off the hook.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    Portland is warming up and most of the main roads have been plowed. Parking lots and side streets remain a mess of half melted snow, ice and slush.

    The '09 XT I drive, christened White Fang, does not particularly care for wet ice. Although it has never gotten stuck (it promptly gets going and stops no matter what), it does not like driving along in rutted ice, which either make it hard to turn or provokes tail swing-outs when Fang finally lurches out of the ruts. Fortunately none of the swing-outs have been anything like earlier this week when Fang swapped ends, but I have learned to let up on power the minute I sense the tail breaking loose, at which point Fang falls back into line relatively quickly.

    By comparison, on snow, or sheet (not rutted) ice, Fang just goes and stops with little complaint.

    This is definitely not a front-biased car in winter weather, and I dread to think what driving a real tail-happy vehicle would be like, or if I were on the original Geolander tires.
  • sgloonsgloon Member Posts: 323
    For those who have the auto dim mirror. I found out the hard way that you can't see yourself in the mirror when it is dark outside. (for those of us who have to primp occasionally. :blush: ) This flummoxed me for a while, until I found I could turn the power off to the mirror, and after waiting a few seconds, the mirror turned back into a regular mirror.

    Also regarding map lights: Myself and some others in the forum were concerned that you can't load up your car when traveling and leave doors open etc. without having the lights on all the time. I was concerned that I could discharge my battery...at least during the summer camping months.

    So, I went to the dealer and they disconnected a wire to allow the map light to shut off. (It only took them a couple of minutes.) It is now only on when you hit the button. But, in the winter, that wasn't good either. Until...I found I could put the middle dome light switch into a certain position and it behaved like the front map light had. Same dimming features, turning off when the key is turned in the ignition, etc.

    Optimum would be to have a switch, which I still think I may ask the dealer to put in, or to show me which wires so I can put in the switch myself. But, at least for now, I get some light when I need it and I don't have to worry about battery power come camping season. :shades:
  • sgloonsgloon Member Posts: 323
    Thanks for the update, Kurt.

    Regarding the snow & my car; we haven't had much more around here. I only had the VDC light come on once, and just for a couple seconds. Subie did get up and go great on the highway in a snowstorm. It went so well that I was mainly the only one in the passing lane, going at a reasonable speed, while most others were in a long line in the right lane going 20-30mph. The Subie just kept on going with no troubles, not even a hiccup. I haven't had any emergency stops yet.

    So, so far my only issue with the snow is the rear sliding out when cornering. Typically from a stop. I guess I haven't cornered enough while driving in the snow...or perhaps it only occurs, as someone previously suggested, while accelerating.

    Either way, I don't think it is worth the expense of changing out all 4 tires...at least not yet. I think I need to get more up in the mountains to do some additional testing in deeper snow! :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My Miata is a bit tail happy. I did a 180 in the rain, even, before I got better tires.

    When it snows it stays parked, period. Usually my wife can stay home on snow days so I take the Forester.

    We're still thoroughly enjoying the seat heaters. :shades:

    I want them on my next Miata, hopefully a PRHT.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    nothing but rain in Portland for awhile...lots of left over gravel on the roads makes me very wary as the paint on XT's front bumper is really easy to chip. Hopefully the hood guard will do its job.

    Per sgloon's feedback, looks like two of us have tail-happy '09 Foresters. Is this typical of Foresters in winter, or is this something new for '09 (the transmission was supposedly tweaked for this year) ? I had expected more FWD-oriented behavior. In any event, I'll be careful if we get snow-buried again.

    I did see the VDC light come on but only when I got devious and stopped the XT so one side was on bare road and the other on ice/snow. The XT got going with little drama but the VDC light would come on if I accelerated vigorously (not ridiculously/flooring, though).

    In general, XT / WhiteFang , other than one icy rut spinout (mostly because I accidently pushed the XT too hard once it did get out of the ruts), did very well.
  • svskyussvskyus Member Posts: 10
    While driving several miles in heavy slush, ice and snow in Sisters Oregon, the VDC light came on frequently. When I reached bare pavement and accelerated up to 55, experienced strong front wheel vibration, steering wheel really shaking. Pulled over, left engine running while I checked the tires, wheel wells, wheel weights, found nothing. Vibration still there when I resumed speed. Pulled over again, turned off the engine while I re checked. Vibration totally gone when I resumed speed.

    Does heavy VDC use somehow cause the car to vibrate? Don't think that it was ice build up as everything looked ok. Did rebooting the engine clear a sensor error or something?
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