2009 Subaru Forester

kurtamaxxxguy · February 2009

Not exactly the curve I saw for the Forester reflashes, but interesting. The '09 XT is a bit different.

The concern is once the engine is reflashed, can it be _reflashed _back to factory stock without any consequences?
The other concern is whether or not the drivetrain is up to the additional power.
The tuner shops say yes, but I am not sure. I'm loathe to blow my warranty away.

oregonboy · February 2009

What does the reflash due to octane requirements and fuel economy?

Call me a cynic, but the old truism comes to mind, "There's no free lunch". :P

volkov · February 2009

The ECU can always be returned to stock. Depending on how it was done, it can be as simple are removing the new map in the case of the Accessport for example. There doesn't appear to be any issue with just a reflash from the standpoint of the engine or transmission holding up if it's a good tune. That being said remember that even stock engines can have trouble, so if you've modded the vehicle and have engine or tranny trouble in the future, don't expect any warranty coverage. Mike should be a good first hand source of info on this subject.
Mileage may suffer, but some people actually report improved economy in sedate driving - most manufacters tune their vehicles to run a little rich because it builds in more safety room for reliability. BUT, if you are driving to take advantage of that new power, FE drops like a stone.

204meca · February 2009

Is there any difference in the sway bars between the X & XT models?

kurtamaxxxguy · February 2009

I think there is a small difference as the XT does not lean as much as the X does.

For those who want less leaning, Cobb tuning apparently now has stiffer sway bars for the '09 Forester.

kurtamaxxxguy · February 2009

Wrt hardware mods (new header, cat converter, non-approved muffler) that appears to be true.

As for flashing, I assume that if you took a reflashed engine in for warranty service, the reflash if detected would also void the warranty. Audi and some other manufacturers specifically state flashing ("chipping") is grounds for warranty denial.

Then again, perhaps Subaru itself will over time determine a better ECU map and offer it to previous same model purchasers either as a TSB or a paid upgrade.

xwesx · February 2009

While I am not saying the interior materials do not lack resistance to physical abuse, anyone who wants to keep the interior of their vehicle looking pristine should seriously consider relegating their animals to the vehicle's cargo hold.

barneyapple · February 2009

good point, but i would venture to say that even without the presence of pets/animals, you will find the interior showing wear and tear at the slightest use. perhaps if i wore gloves... granted, i was not expecting a luxury interior but i think subaru went a little too cheap in their efforts to save money. the other models (ie outback) do not seem to have the same problem

volkov · February 2009

That's an older design though. It may turn out that the same criticisms start coming for the redesign. Hope not. Looking overall, I think all vehicle interiors have cheapened over the last decade.

sgloon · February 2009

Although, I don't have any animals and my cargo hold is already marked up just from packing for a few camping trips. I'm pretty careful with a new car.

Also got scratches on the glove box area, in part when someone put a foot up there to tie their shoes. Not excessive wear.

When I read about the cheap interior before I bought my Forester, I wrongly assumed that it must be from such as animals or excessive abuse. I was wrong.

Word to the wise who are buying, you will scratch the interior no matter how careful you are. Just something people need to know before making a decision.

ateixeira · February 2009

No free lunch - agreed.

I think I found the price for that lunch, though.

Keep in mind Subaru recommends premium fuel but doesn't require it.

Cobb states that the 265hp happens with 91 octane, and I think it's safe to say that octane would now be required.

They also say it made 270hp with 93 octane.

I've seen similar statements from other tuners - you chip a turbo and premium is absolutely mandatory.

samiam_68 · February 2009

For the turbo, premium is required (91), not just recommended.

kurtamaxxxguy · February 2009

Yes, 91 octane is minimum requirement for turbo.

In Japan, the octane is much higher, adding another challenge to Subaru engine programmers as they adapt their engines to American fuel.

xwesx · February 2009

I agree with you, Barney. I had both an '07 and an '08 Outback, and I felt the interiors of those cars scuffed/scratched quite easily. I was coming from a '96 Outback with 220,000 miles on it when I purchased the '07. Other than the typical seat wear one might expect after nearly a quarter-million miles, the non-upholstered interior looked pristine, and I made only marginal (occasional dusting & protectant application) effort to keep it that way. Even the seats were free of any tears, but the driver seat's door-side bolstering was pretty flat and the material certainly showed wear.

The '07, after four months, already had some scuffs, etc., that were a permanent addition, and you can imagine that I treated the car with extra care due to its newness. For the '08, it was purchased as temporary transportation, so I treated it as though I did intend to sell it in the near future. I covered all the seats with sheets, fussed over unnecessary cabin touching, etc.

Considering the light-colored interior, I must say that it was essentially as good as new after the 7500 miles I clocked, but there were two small scuffs on the passenger side dash that I could not remove. Not bad, I guess, considering a 3.5 year old boy rode there for 3,000 miles over five days.

I think the '96 would have been absolutely perfect in those conditions.

ateixeira · February 2009

Interesting. Isn't there a tidbit about it being OK to use 87 octane on a short-term basis if that's all you can find?

I suspect the chipped setup would actually cause engine damage in those situations.

Any how, it was a nice theory.

barneyapple · February 2009

my dog only weighs 5lbs and punctured the center console just standing on it. it seems damage will happen at the slightest touch. are all subbies like this? i wonder if the honda or rav have the same problem

ateixeira · February 2009

How sharp are his nails? Do you clip 'em? That seems kinda strange. :confuse:

oregonboy · February 2009

I think the little guy used an ice pick! :P

volkov · February 2009

It all depends how you drive. Driven conservatively and kept off boost should be just fine even when chipped, as the car will still adapt and pull timing. Prolonged driving on 87 octane pushing the vehicle hard with the turbo cramming in lots of air, and you're likely to be in trouble.
But I always go back to my motherhood statement. Don't buy a vehicle which requires/recommends premium if you aren't going to pay at the pump.

ateixeira · February 2009

My Miata has manually adjustable ignition timing so I'm familiar with that whole process. Modern ECUs just to the same thing automatically, I suppose.

Stock timing is 10 degrees BTDC, but you can advance it to 14 and still use 87 octane. It's peppier that way. If you're willing to use premium fuel you can advance as far as 18 degrees. On regular fuel you will actually hear it ping as you adjust too far.

When a shop replaced my timing belt I knew the timing was off when I felt a *substantial* loss of power, as soon as I got it back I knew they had screwed up. Got my timing gun, and sure enough, they had set it to 8 degrees, more conservative than even the stock setting.

I advanced it back to 14 degrees, and she's running great again.

This is a 1993 model, I doubt there are any new models where you can set the timing manually any more.

I think it's safe to say you would be losing power on the cheap stuff with an XT turbo.

kurtamaxxxguy · February 2009

I was told by Subaru techs that two things happen if you use really low octane with the Turbo:
1. The engine can overheat (especially cylinder #3),
2. The CHECK ENGINE light will probably come on.

When resetting the light / ECU, the service tech can read what caused the problem.

froggy3 · February 2009

Hello all,

New to the Subaru Forrester 2009 and to this forum.

I agree with all posters that report an interior that can be scuffed/scratched quite easily. This is a weak point with the car, not the fault of users or their dogs.

After driving the car for about 30 days, these are in my views about the car weak points (mine is a 2.5 X manual, non-turbo):
- Tires are cheapo, low resistance, extra fast wear type that
most manufacturers now put on their cars. To replace A.S.A.P.
- Lack of a full size spare tire.
- Interior is cheap, seats are 'hard'.
- Side mirrors are too narrow, making them less than effective.
- The steering feels too light, great for parking maneuvers, but not so at high speed.
- Poor instrument cluster lighting, and no correct adjustment at night.
- Lack of a coolant temperature gauge.
- Aux port for IPOD and MP3 is hard to reach (located inside the center armrest).

These are minor annoyances one has to accept (after all you went for a test drive before buying?). They are well overtaken by the qualities of the car such as:
- Latest safety features (VDC, side curtain airbags, etc.)
- Fantastic power starting as low as 1,500 rpm. I can't beleive it.
- Good handling, agility, and wonderful turning radius.
- Good proportions, room, and cargo space.
- Plenty of visibility.
- Good fuel economy (20+ mpg in city, with car warming up daily for 5 minutes)
- Four wheel drive with good clearance.
- Excellent price.
- Can tow up to 2,400 lbs..
- Spare tire is in the car, not under the body
- Etc.

At purchase time I allocated $2,000 for customizations, which included a full spare wheel and five General Tire Grabber AT2 (done!) and a few more mods to come.

I would certainly buy the car again.
Just my $.02

oregonboy · February 2009

- Spare tire is in the car, not under the body

or hanging on the rear door, thus requiring a side-hinged door, which is a PITA compared to a hatch.

billwv · February 2009

You got to get this car into some snow, then you will really appreciate it.

Like you, I feel the AWD, VDC, safety, makes it a keeper.

I, also, felt at first that the steering was too light -- now that I am used to it, it seems just right.

Bill

kurtamaxxxguy · February 2009

I remember driving the RAV4 V6 AWD and on the I-5 Freeway, it felt front heavy, was pretty noisy on coarse asphalt, its engine peppy, the throttle hair-triggerish, and the transmission slow to downshift. Seats were comfortable but the interior trim was no better than Forester's.

I'm not sure why the XT feels light on its feet. High driving position? Relatively light steering?

My brother will be pleased to hear of the fuel economy as he is considering an X-Limited. Competition, though, is the Escape Hybrid, which does far better on fuel.

ateixeira · February 2009

I like the firm seats, on longer drives they pay off.

I agree about the smallish mirrors, though. There used to be two sizes - small on the L/X and larger on the S/XS. Now it seems they went with one size and it's definitely not as big as the old one on the S/XS models, but it is bigger (taller mostly) than the one in my sister's 2003 X model.

My van has sofa-like soft seats, better on short drives but they lose support on longer ones. And the side mirrors are enormous. So it's pretty much the opposite on both counts.

I'd pick the Forester's seats but the Sienna's side mirrors.

Hambros · February 2009

This past December we had over 5 ft of snow in less than 2 wks. We have a 700 plus foot driveway on which my wife drove the Forester in snow over the front bumper, almost to the top of the grill with just the all weather tires on it, over hills and around bends. Amazing!! I thought, NO WAY! Figured I'd have to get out the tractor and tow her part of the way after I finished plowing. Manual tranny helped, I'm sure. We had a similar situation with the Outback a couple of years ago, again, no problems other than the snow packing up under the wheel wells and freezing in those cheesy mudflaps ( which we had to pay extra for on the Forester :P ).

Yes the interior trim has the tinsel strength of a Pringle, but it's the getting through the snow that sold us on Subaru.

ateixeira · February 2009

I think enough people are complaining that this should be an area where they focus on in future model years.

kurtamaxxxguy · February 2009

Am curious if anyone else has tried the Escape Hybrid while shopping for Forester?

A Family member is interested in both.

Our drive in '09 LT Escape Hybrid suggested it was pretty decent. Responsiveness was somewhere between XT and X. Ride, handling, and road noise weren't bad. Interior seemed a little nicer than XT's.
But at $36 K (leaving out the $3 K dealer markup), it's pricey :surprise:

ateixeira · February 2009

I checked out a Mariner hybrid, but didn't test drive it. I was actually there to test drive a Milan.

I think that if you can get a bargain on one it could make sense. I looked at a loaded up model with leather, and it really fell short of expectations for the price. It was $30k and change, no-haggle price after discounts, and I took one look at the shiny leather and said "no way". Another concern is the windows were chopped and that compromised visibility somewhat, not to mention the platform dates to MY2000 (which is really my biggest qualm with it).

Having said that, I think I would not have the same objections if it were priced a lot lower. Also, the new 2.5l engine is a big improvement over the old 2.3l.

$36k *GASP* they MUST be kidding?! :surprise:

Still, though, while I consider fuel economy important, I'm not willing to take the interior that goes along with it. Ford builds those for rental fleets and stripped 4 cylinder models sell in the high teens, and you can tell.

Basically I think the Forester is just a much better platform to begin with. The Ford hybrid is worth $26k, but not $36k, no way no how.

kurtamaxxxguy · February 2009

subaru forester vs ford escape hybrid:
time to remake the cost of the hybrid given a particular cost of gasoline;

Assume 10000 miles per year; gas cost $4.00 per gallon

Best case driving habits:
Subaru uses 501 gallons of fuel per year
$2,004.83 total cost per year
Escape uses 356 gallons of fuel per year
$1,425.29 total cost per year

Worst case driving habits:
Subaru uses 662 gallons of fuel per year
$2,646.38 total cost per year
Escape uses 470 gallons of fuel per year
$1,881.38 total cost per year

Difference in yearly cost, worst case:
(additional figures based on adjusting yearly mileage):
$579.54 for 10,000 miles yearly
$289.77 for 5,000 miles yearly

Difference in the price of the cars:
$36,000 Escape Hybrid (top of line limited model)
$26,000 Forester X-Limited (top of line conventional engine model)
$10,000 price difference.

Time to make back the Escape purchase price difference with gas savings from worst case driving:
20,000 miles per year; 8.5 years
10,000 miles per year; 17 years
5,000 miles per year; 34 years

kurtamaxxxguy · February 2009

CU rates it average (not as good as the older Foresters).
The rating applies to the X series only. The XT's have insufficient data.

CU charts are strange beasts. They can appear to say one thing (the '09's have many better than average marks) but end up meaning something else ("used car reliability" is the overall ranking).

Disappointing, but not unexpected for a first year car.

kurtamaxxxguy · February 2009

We're talking $52K Lexus .vs. $29K XT here but as a friend acquired a Lexus RX400h, I can make direct comparisons between it and the XT I drive.

The XT holds its own wrt road noise (a big surprise), handling and acceleration. It also has a little more usable cargo space.
XT looses big against the Lexus wrt interior finish, sound system and engine quietness.

But...surprise, surprise, I saw some of the same switchgear on both cars, and the door lock systems are very similar, right down to the tones the cars make when opening/locking doors.

oregonboy · February 2009

Ahhh... the Toyota connection. :P

farmboy2054 · February 2009

I test drove several 2009 Foresters and with each one, you could feel a noticable vibration in the steering wheel. The drivers rear view mirror was also vibrating. Have other experinced this? Is this due to the OE tires? I'm considering purchasing a Forester, but this concerns me.

Thanks.

billwv · February 2009

I have not experienced this. 09 2.5X.

Bill

kurtamaxxxguy · February 2009

I've not noticed any such vibration in my '09 XT.

This was before and after replacing stock Geolanders with Nokians.

pgb0517 · February 2009

We have over 8K miles on our 2009 Forester LL Bean and have never noticed such a vibration.

bikerguy3 · February 2009

I have an '09 Forester X w/ M/T & premium package. Have had it for just about 1
year now, and just clicked over 11,000 miles.

I have never noticed any vibrations in the steering wheel. I've also been fortunate
to not have experienced any of the interior squeak/rattle/scuff issues that others have posted about. My vehicle rides solid.

Like most of the Forester owners who post here - I remain satisfied overall with my decision to buy the Forester (I'm a 1st time subie owner). I especially love the M/T, adequate engine power, big sunroof, very good fuel economy, integrated IPOD i/f, and AMAZING performance in snow & incremental weather. I have no complaints with the quality of the interior (except the factory stereo needing upgraded speakers to sound decent).

My largest concern lies with the quality of the exterior paint and sheet metal...it seems thin and easy to dent/scratch. Only time will tell whether the exterior wears well as the miles rack up... so far, I've gotten a few fairly minor dings/scratches.

Hope this helps in your new vehicle selection...good luck!

imm19 · February 2009

I have 2009 Limited and my drivers rear view mirror is vibrating over 55-60 mph. It is annoying and may be I am going to mention it when I go for oil change.

birdboy · February 2009

I also had a very annoying vibrating drivers side mirror at speeds of 40mph. The service tech came for a ride and saw it first hand. The inside mechanism and mirror were replaced and it is much better

birdboy · February 2009

A few weeks ago while driving at 45mph on a country road in upstate New York, Bambi out of nowhere jumped in front of my 09 Forester ... A terrifying experience. Fortunately, I was not injured. When I got out to look at my Subie I could not believe the extent of damage. The wntire front was gone . $7654.00 worth. Almost everything in the front is plastic . The hood and fender crumpled like a piece of paper. I now know what a crumple zone is! The collision guys as they were welding the front of the frame, said this kind of damage was expected and that the crumple zone , as severe as it looked, did its job in absorbing the impact while protecting me and the engine. The radiator was not so lucky. I am going to pick it up tomorrow and hope that it will be as good as new. I am happy that to report that the forester protected me and quite possibly saved my life..Thank You Subaru.

kurtamaxxxguy · February 2009

Sorry to hear of your accident, birdboy, but sounds like your 'Bu did its job protecting you! Hopefully the body shop got the fixes right!

redrose1 · February 2009

Glad to hear you were not injured - we are wondering if all cars typically have plastic fronts? Is that a safety feature or not?

froggy3 · February 2009

I have not experienced such vibration 2009 2.5X manual.

Did it happen to you on the same stretch of road? At which speed?

Which version of the 2009 where you test driving (turbo/non-turbo?, etc.?

froggy3 · February 2009

Glad you are OK.

I think that the front is made to crumble on purpose on most new cars.

The idea here is that if you hit a pedestrian (e.g. kid jumping out of nowhere), you don't kill him as the car absorbs the impact (maybe others can confirm?).

So, repair cost is a stinker, but better that than having nightmares killing a kid...

scoobed · February 2009

I am curious if the test drives were in very cold weather with the various Foresters having sat on the lot for a while. I had this same problem test dring several Acuras a few years ago in the winter and all of them had flat spots in the tires from sitting for over a month on the lot in the same position. Finally I drove one for over a half hour and the flat spots worked themselves out.

kurtamaxxxguy · February 2009

Some '09 Foresters have Bridgstone tires, others have Yokohamas.
I wonder if it's one or both of these that might develop flat spots if parked for a long time in cold.

I've not seen this flatspotting problem with Nokians.

....and as a sidenote, the folks in S. California are enjoying a closed I-5 because snow fell over roughly 50 miles of it.
A lot of cars down there can't cope with rain. In snow, it would be a regular bumper car fest.

p0926 · February 2009

Flat-spotting was the first thing that came to my mind also. If my Forester has been sitting for several days and I get on a hwy right away, there's a definite thumping for a couple of miles until the tires warm up (Kumho Ecsta tires)

-Frank

p0926 · February 2009

The idea here is that if you hit a pedestrian (e.g. kid jumping out of nowhere), you don't kill him as the car absorbs the impact (maybe others can confirm?).

Nice thought but not accurate. Crumple zones are almost exclusively intended to protect just the vehicle's occupants.

-Frank

2009 Subaru Forester

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles