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2009 Subaru Forester

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Comments

  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    In Portland OR, Lithia has gotten a fair number of '09's now. They had two XT's - one a XT Limited, the other just XT. I got to drive the XT, which proved far more responsive than the disappointing Outback XT. Throttle tip in was smooth (no hair trigger) and accelerating was quick with a two stage process (initial surge, followed by turbo surge) - transmission shifted well. Car rode nicely (tended to skitter a little on washboards but handled sharp bumps well), cornered flat. XT Seat comfort was so so (no real lumbar support), the Power seat in the XT Limited much better. Drive proved relatively quiet inside (though not as quiet as an Outback). AC/Heat's the same old Nippon Denso design (heat gushes out the side vents unless you close them first). Lots of room in back seat compared to Outback or old Forester. Hatch area tidy, well finished. Interior color choices are a disappointment - cold gray or black is all they have.

    Lithia's selling these for pretty much MSRP (about $28.2 K for the limited model). I didn't discuss price as I'm holding off for some more reviews and feedback about any first year glitches.

    Frankly, I would not be surprised if Outback sales tank at this point. What is the advantage of the Outback, other than the "si" control? For me it proved less responsive, more cramped, and uses more fuel in spite of its 5-speed auto trans.
  • gmginsfogmginsfo Member Posts: 116
    Good to see the reviews coming in about the '09 Forester, but will whoever next gets into one check to see if the sun visors slide back on their rails, as well as swivel out from the A pillar?

    Interesting aricle in today's paper re: Subaru's new diesel engine going into Imprezas and Outbacks. I wonder if it'll get into Foresters? I wonder if the price of diesel fuel will keep it a viable option?
  • tkaytkay Member Posts: 99
    The 2 year free maintenance is dealer specific.I did call a daeler in Ohio and asked about incentive and he said he would match.The special is to end at the end of the month.That's when the sceduled launch of the 09 is to start.
  • h2k2f2h2k2f2 Member Posts: 44
    I don't know what you mean about the visors sliding back on their rails. However, they do swivel out, according to the owner's manual.
  • killercharliekillercharlie Member Posts: 1
    I just test drove a 2.5X with premium package. It drove pretty well. I wasn't a fan of the cramped accelerator pedal (it's almost against the right side). I also wasn't impressed with the adjustment of the steering wheel. Luckily those weren't deal breakers. This was at Carter Subaru in Seattle. They told me they thought they could get $1k less than MSRP (which I think was something like $25k). Due to their popularity and newness, he said he didn't think there'd be any incentives on '09 Foresters for 6 months.

    I do have a few questions hopefully you guys can answer though.

    1) I really liked the sunroof and thought that at highway speeds there wasn't much wind noise (with the roof and cover closed). However, is the regular 2.5X model without the sunroof a bit quieter or not?

    2) None of the models I saw had a rear bumper cover! Even minivans have those However, I saw in tkay's post that there are rear bumper covers. Is this a factory-installed option only? Can I buy a vehicle then have one put on?
  • jdc47jdc47 Member Posts: 4
    Has anybody seen an 09 Forester equipped with the optional "Sport Grill" or "Front or Rear Under guard" ? These show up as option when you price one out on Edmunds.com, but I have not seen any pictures of either anywhere on the net. I liked the grill- front end on the 08 "Sport" and was wondering if these options would be anything like it.
    I have only seen the base X 09 Forester (Black / Light Gray interior) in person, but I liked the look, the framed windows in the doors, the console, and a few other things. I did not get to drive it as it was just minutes from being unloaded off the truck.
  • h2k2f2h2k2f2 Member Posts: 44
    It appears that the rear bumper cover can be installed by the dealer.
  • orangelebaronorangelebaron Member Posts: 435
    you can say buh-bye to your engine real soon if you leave the same oil in it for 10,000 miles even if it's synthetic.

    I would not leave synthetic in more than 7500 miles. Regular oil, no more than 4,000.
    My friend thought he could drive 10,000 miles on synthetic in his 04 Nissan and now the engine is damaged from sludge.

    You can do what you want, but you can get one or two extra oil changes a year or get a new engine... which is cheaper?
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    I really liked the sunroof and thought that at highway speeds there wasn't much wind noise (with the roof and cover closed). However, is the regular 2.5X model without the sunroof a bit quieter or not?

    There shouldn't be any wind noise with the roof and cover closed so not having a sunroof shouldn't make a difference.

    None of the models I saw had a rear bumper cover! Even minivans have those However, I saw in tkay's post that there are rear bumper covers. Is this a factory-installed option only? Can I buy a vehicle then have one put on?

    I expect a good number of Foresters will come with the bumper covers already installed but if not, they're a fairly inexpensive option from the dealer. I suspect they probably mounted with double-sided adhesive so you could even install one yourself.

    -Frank
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, the rear bumper cover is a port-installed option anyway. I don't think they install that at the factory. Should be easy enough to install with a couple of bolts and some two-sided tape.

    Better yet, get a Subaru Chase credit card, earn Subaru Bucks, and eventually it's free! :shades:

    Diesel prices near me have skyrocketed, I saw $4.25. Ouch. Gas is $3.29. This makes buying the gas model an easier decision. While I like the idea of a diesel, as new models appear and demand grows, this will only get worse. :sick:

    Kurt: yeah, I noticed the nicely finished cargo area, too. In fact it's not carpeted over the wheel wells. My '98 began to wear there. The 2009 LL Bean that I test drove had a matte black plastic surface that looked more durable. A big plus, IMO.

    I remember now another surprise - the hatch had an electronic latch.

    My '98 would close and not latch completely at times. So it would rattle. You had to slam it.

    Looks like they added an electric latch that closes it securely every time. Also, there is a button behind a rubber cover that you press to open it. You can hear the little "whirr" of the latch when it opens and closes.

    Again, much better. Just drop the hatch and never worry about it - it will always close securly. No more rattle.
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Member Posts: 508
    Finally got see some 2009's this weekend. I took my parents who are in the market and trying to decide between a leftover 08, the 09, and the CRV. They have a 2004 2.5x.

    I like the look of the 2009, I think its a very evolutionary sort of design that's smart. Obviously a lot more room.

    But a couple of dislikes--first, auto climate control is no longer part of the Premium Package, which really makes me question exactly what you get, other than the sunroof and the 6-disc, in that package. Unfortunately, though, they decontented the 2.5x so much, that you almost need it just to have a vehicle that doesn't look ultra cheap with blacked out mirrors and hubcaps.

    Auto climate is a feature that my mom really wants, so that makes it a bit more perplexing.

    She also didn't like the heavy degree of window tint--expressed some reservations about visibilty with that much tint. I thought it was excessive, compared to the 2007 Odyssey that I own.

    My big hangup is that I'd like her in a car with stability control, and of course the 2008 doesn't have it unless you get the XT (not an option). So that really leaves us in a bit of a bind.

    The 2008 isn't really a slam dunk from a value perspective, either. First, its hard to even find 2.5x Premium's, and second, the rebate is only $500, so frankly I think they're overpriced for an expired model. I'm looking at about 21.6, and I'm going to have to work to find one in the color she wants.

    They're going to look at the CR-V, which doesn't have auto climate either, but also isn't as heavily tinted and does have ESC.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    She also didn't like the heavy degree of window tint--expressed some reservations about visibilty with that much tint.

    After years of buyers griping that the Forester didn't come with factory tint, I bet Subaru is confounded by people not liking it :confuse:

    -Frank
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    We nicknamed Subaru's auto climate-control "HAL" because people has so much trouble figuring it out, so I would actually prefer it without that feature. Watch, the LL Bean that we want will have it (Murphy's Law).

    I was also one of the people begging for factory tint. I actually had aftermarket tint installed on my 1998, and paid extra for it. The OE tint is really not that dark, lighter than the 35% tint I had on mine, I think.

    Did you really find the tint that dark? In my review earlier from this thread, I actually commented that it didn't seem that dark.

    Besides the 6CD, the Premium package includes that humungous moonroof, the storage cubby between the 2 rear seats, roof rails, tint, chrome door handles inside and out, reclining rear seats, steering wheel audio controls, and body colored side mirrors.

    Also, if you want the all-weather package, now sold seperately, you have to step up to the Premium model first, so think of it as a prerequisite.

    PS I looked it up and yes, the LL Bean has auto climate control :sick:
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,789
    PS I looked it up and yes, the LL Bean has auto climate control

    *snickers* :P
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I would not leave synthetic in more than 7500 miles. Regular oil, no more than 4,000.
    My friend thought he could drive 10,000 miles on synthetic in his 04 Nissan and now the engine is damaged from sludge.

    It's not the oil that breaks down, it's the filter. They are only good for about 5k-6k miles these days. I run 7500-12,000 mile oil changes in my cars with Amsoil and use a high capacity high quality filter that can handle those intervals.

    -mike
    Motorsports and Modifications Host
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    To the Subaru experts: Any indication on how well the Dealers are set up to tweak these new Foresters?
    The dealers I've visited don't have complete literature on the cars yet.
    Now that doesn't mean the service departments don't have manuals and parts...

    but I do wonder how long Subie will take to roll all that out, as well as training for the Mechanics.
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Along with de-contenting the X, they also dropped the price on it by $1200. Many of the things they dropped you can add back on, but this pricing will allow more folks to get into a Forester.

    Besides the items juice mentioned, the '09 Premium also adds 17" alloy wheels.

    Gotta step up around $2000 over the Premium to an LL Bean to get climate control. (Of course, you also get leather, fog lights, premium sound system, all-weather package, etc.)

    Is somewhat lighter tint enough to go w/a CRV over an '09 Premium Forester?
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    That rear bumper cover's about a $75 option, before the dealer's labor for installation. It's practically a must-have.
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    You can find photos of the rear underguard (& tons of other 2009 Forester interior & exterior pics if you look around) here:
    http://www.cars101.com/subaru/forester/forester2009photos1.html

    Front underguard here:
    http://www.subaru.jp/information/topics/campaign/foresterplusone/#active

    Photo of sport grille here:
    http://response.jp/issue/2008/0128/article104813_1.images/171198.html
  • tkaytkay Member Posts: 99
    Picked up my 09 Bean yesterday and the almost black leather really goes good with the black exterior.I like it much better than the tan that was only available.I can say it rides much better than the 05 I test drove a few years back and passed on.It's quieter than my wifes 06 Honda CRV.The only thing that went wrong (men don't ask questions or directions) I drove out of the dealership and the engine seemed like it was stuck in 1st.gear, (this was to be automatic) so I tapped the lever and sudenly it went into 2nd. and again tapped and behold 3rd.gear.Yes I did finally figure it out.The 3 yr. maintenance that Dwyer and Sons offer here in Michigan and the $1800.Subaru bucks we accumulated over the years wre going to start to expire made it a DONE DEAL..will let you all know if any problems arise.Thanks for all your input and comments!!!
  • jdc47jdc47 Member Posts: 4
    Thanks for the help in finding photos of the "Under Guards" and Sports Grill". The Grill looks interresting, I think I'll want to see the "Underguards" in person before making a decision.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I don't recall any parts shortage for Subarus, even with common problems like head gaskets and wheel bearings on older models.

    Not like VW, which had a shortage of ignition coils on the 1.8T engines, for instance.

    As for dealer training, my buddy at Fitz had already attended the sales training class. Not sure if the mechanics need it given there is nothing entirely new in the powertrains.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    4 of those de-contented accessories fall in to a $400 or so package. So even if we include that, the base price is down $800.

    I think they basically tried to align the content with what Honda and Toyota offer on their base models. Back in 1998, my Forester has roof rack cross bars, fog lights, cargo cover, cargo liner, bumper protector, etc, yet the CR-V and RAV4 lacked every one of those, and still outsold the Forester.

    So not enough people recognized that extra content, and instead bought lesser equipped rivals.

    At least we have a choice. Plus you can always accessorize.

    Look at tkay: sweet $1800 discount with Subaru Bucks. Brilliant.

    At $500/year from now on, you could get all those accessories for free within a year. By the 3rd year, you could accumulate another $1000 in Subaru Bucks, more than enough to pay for the 30k mile service, and have a bunch left over for a bike rack and maybe a ski rack. All free.

    I'm surprised there aren't more people with that card. I got mine 4 years ago and already accumulated $2000. I spent $400, and have $1600 for my 2009 LL Bean. :shades:
  • tkaytkay Member Posts: 99
    Cant't beat the 3% off evrything.Way to go Ateixeira, what I do if I get my quota of $500. Subie bucks per year,I switch cards that offer 3% cash back, but they don't cover everthing.They cover gas restaurants and home improvement (Home Depot etc.) everything else is 1%...Ateeixeira carefull to not let the bucks expire!
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Member Posts: 508
    Well, its not me driving it, so I don't know. Perhaps. You all have moms! She's very particular about her comfort level, which she has with her current-gen Forester. Her concern was driving at night with the tint, considering that she feels like she can't see all that well to begin with.

    My only point of comparison is my Odyssey, which, like I said, has a significantly lighter tint than the Forester seemed to. It did seem overly dark, at least to me.

    Although I'd like to see her get into a vehicle with ESC, what this may do is push her to the 2008. The decontenting started a few years ago--the "X" got cheap wheels and a few other cheaper parts.

    Which, by the way, is another point in the CR-V's favor---interior materials are substantially higher quality than on the Subie, which still seems rather cheap. I've always thought my mom's Forester was very cheap feeling inside, and that hasn't changed much. She absolutely hated the black cloth seats, so that's a no go, but she wants Newport Blue anyway so its not an issue. Of course, she also really doesn't like the tan interior thats in her current car, which she'd be stuck with in the 2008.

    Its not an easy call for them no matter how they slice it. If the '09 had auto climate, I think it would be a done deal. I don't view the fact that the old system was hard to use as an excuse as to why I should be glad it doesn't have it, by the way--if it didn't work well, than they simply should provide a better system. The last three vehicles I';ve owned--a 2002 Oldsmobile Intrigue, a 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid, and the 2007 Odyssey (I still have the TCH too, of course) all have this feature, and its worked very well on all of them. Surely if GM could get it right in 2002 (frankly one of the few things that they DID get right) Subaru can do it in 2009. My Camry even has climate controls on the steering wheel!
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    Subaru CAN'T get the climate control right. Even in 2008, it's still crappy. You're better off without it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, we maxed out this year already. Just this month, actually. So the timing is perfect.

    We're now using our Shell gas card - 1% cash back on all purchases, 5% on Shell gasoline.

    That makes $3 gas cost us $2.85, a pretty significant discount. Back when gas was cheap I didn't think it mattered much, but now it certainly does.

    We'll switch back to the Subaru card in September or so, when we can start earning 3% on everything again.

    And yes, I'm sure none of ours have expired. I had to tell myself to stop using them on accessories. :shades:
  • h2k2f2h2k2f2 Member Posts: 44
    Having sat in and driven both the current CR-V and the '09 Forester, I really have to disagree with the comment about the difference in interior quality.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    Yes, the CRV does have a nicer interior, and more foot room.

    Unfortunately, its AWD is no match whatever for Subaru's. You can find info here at Edmunds in the straight line blog "All AWD systems are not equal":

    http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightline/?@@

    Yes, it's apparently Subaru promotional material, but it does show the systems to their advantage
  • tkaytkay Member Posts: 99
    Drove both wifes 06 CR-V EX and 09 Bean (both excellent. Bean has a b better ride and also less highway noise. Noticeably quieter.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    Local dealer has one '09 which they can get from another local dealer; car is close enough to what I am looking for but has some stuff I don't need.

    However, does it make sense to wait two months (the amount of time it takes to order an '09 forester from Subaru, I was told) ?

    These ones here are the first run, I assume. And I well remember what has happened to other first run cars I have owned (on my '04 Maxx, I missed several key safety improvements by a month - none were retrofittable). Waiting a couple of months gives Subaru some time to make some tweaks.

    On other hand we have raging commodity and oil price hikes going on, which sooner or later Subaru is going to pass on to us as form of price increase.

    Buy or wait ?? :confuse:
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    In the past we have seen them bump up the destination fee a little to cover rising costs, but no way they'll raise the price in the next few months. You could wait a couple months & see if they offer a $500 rebate by then, but I don't think they'll offer any rebates for at least 6 months, and I think Forester will be well received enough that it may not require rebates at all the first year. (Though the non-WRX Imprezas have been selling at a brisk pace and Subaru still brought a $500 rebate for those.) As far as ordering from the first batch - mechanicals and chassis are already proven, interior's essentially a carry-over from Impreza, they've got the safety thing nailed. Give it a good once-over for body panel alignment and interior fit. Tranny is the only thing I could see them changing mid-year (if they determine that's really holding back sales), but it sounded like the 4-spd drove well for you, so probably not an issue. Subaru probably hopes to keep using the 4-spd AT rather than 5-spd AT until their CVT is ready.

    If it were me, and I wasn't in a rush but wanted to own a new Forester sometime before mid-summer, I'd place my order now to get one just how I want it. Only reason I'd wait would be to have the All-Weather Package (avail. in June) if I were getting a Premium.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    what's in the all weather package, jeffmc? If it's better defrosters and stuff, then yes, I will wait. I can use those here in Portland.
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Member Posts: 508
    Well, that's not a fair comparison though..2006 CR-V is not the current generation, there was a new vehicle for 2007 that is substantially more polished. You have to compare that car to the previous gen Forester.

    I don't know which one is better between the 2008 Honda and the 2009 Subaru. I stand by my observation on the interior, though.
  • tkaytkay Member Posts: 99
    You are right on the 06.But I made a mistake in saying it was an 06. It is an 07 get confused with 09 coming out in early 09. Seemed like my CR-V was older, but one thing that I dislike is how the rear seats fold up,takes away room that I need. But the CR-V is a great vehicle, and Forester new design,longer wider seems to help the ride. Tuff Call!!!!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Comparisons to the CR-V are inevitable. That and the RAV4 will probably be cross-shopped most often.

    I did notice some cost cutting, like the mouse fur headliner, the plasticky sun visors, and thin carpeting on the 09 Forester I test drove. For the most part, though, that's par for this class.

    Also, I wonder if the LL Bean and XT Limited models will get some upgrades in that regard? I've seen pre-production models that indeed had different materials in those places.

    So as far as interior material quality, just because you've seen one model, don't assume that all are the same. Check out the specific model you are shopping for.

    I'll have to check out the CR-V again to compare the interior. I doubt it hurts that they use the platform for the RD-X, but then again, the CR-V is a de-contented RD-X, if you look at it that way.

    One pet peeve I have with Hondas is the dead pedal - or more precisely the lack thereof. Does the new CR-V have one? The old one didn't, nor did the Odyssey IIRC.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    I don't remember any dead pedal being in the '08 CRV I drove.

    As for interiors, the '08 CRV seems a little more refined than the'09 ForesterXT, and a __lot__ more refined than the '08 Forester.

    As for responsiveness while driving, both '08 CRV and '09 Forester XT responded quickly to accelerator input (the CRV shifted more quickly), but the "09 Forester, while it didn't make a fuss about it, accelerated very quickly as well.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's almost an entirely different seating position for some Hondas. You sit like you would on top of a bar stool, with your feet pointing down.

    On most Subarus your feet are out in front of you. I guess a dead pedal is more necessary.

    Still, my Toyota van has a Honda style seating position (very upright) yet it still offers a nice dead pedal.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Subaru's all weather package (AWP) consists of heated side mirrors, heated seats and heating element in the windshield.

    -Frank
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Subaru CAN'T get the climate control right. Even in 2008, it's still crappy. You're better off without it.

    The version in my 92 SVX worked flawlessly
    The version in my 05 LGT works flawlessly
    Never had a problem with the HVAC in any of my other subies either:
    94 Legacy Turbo (Took out the AC when we converted it to a race car last year)
    96 Impreza L (Took out the AC when that was converted to a race car about 6 years ago)
    88 XT6 (Working when sold at 150k miles)
    91 XT6 (Working when sold at 135k miles)
    97 Legacy L (Working when sold at 120k miles)

    -mike
    Motorsports and Modifications Host
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    I'm not a fan of automatic climate controls, probably because I hate it when the fan is on full blast (too noisy) which seems to occur often with those systems. In any case, I'm perfectly happy manually operating the climate controls :P

    -Frank
  • jaycee1018jaycee1018 Member Posts: 7
    Does Navigation have rear view camera function?
    Thanks!

    I am considering Honda CRV & Forester.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'm not a fan of automatic climate controls, probably because I hate it when the fan is on full blast (too noisy) which seems to occur often with those systems. In any case, I'm perfectly happy manually operating the climate controls

    -Frank

    Roll up windows too?
    Rear Drum Brakes?
    Automatic Transmissions?
    CD/Tape/MP3 Players?

    Hee Hee, automatic climate control is coming and will eventually be as common as Air Conditioning in cars....

    Heck the nice thing about the subies is you can manual control the automatic settings so it's not really an issue.

    -mike
    Motorsports and Modifications Host
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Roll up windows too?
    Rear Drum Brakes?
    Automatic Transmissions?
    CD/Tape/MP3 Players?

    Apples and oranges for the most part... except for automatic transmissions. And of course I insist on only driving manual transmissions :P

    Heck the nice thing about the subies is you can manual control the automatic settings so it's not really an issue.

    Which is exactly what I do ;)

    -Frank
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Why not roll up windows? That's even an HVAC issue :) And heck the switches and motors are more likely to break than a crank up window!

    :)

    -mike
    Motorsports and Modifications Host
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    ..compared to the Forester, that is...

    Wrt turbos, the Forester turbo seems quicker _and_ gets better (or at worst the same) fuel economy.
    It has VDC and most of the other features of the Outback Turbo.
    It has auto climate, power seat,etc.
    It has more passenger room.

    So I wonder what the remaining selling points of the Outback are? All I can think of is nicer interior and different styling.
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    At first glance it doesn't seem like much, but then it starts to add up... if you're comparing XT Ltd models, in addition to your points Outback has longer cargo area, engine temp gauge, SI Drive, 5-spd AT, availability of manual tranny, turn signal mirrors, power passenger seat, aluminum sill plate covers for all 4 doors & the hatch, halogen projector headlights, greater tow rating, rear LSD, and woodgrain trim (though that feature could be a negative just as easily).
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    March Madness beigns, but we won't let that stop us. Besides, I signed up for the thing where I can watch the games online :P Don't forget the snacks tonight!

    The Subaru Crew Chat is on tonight. The chat room opens at 8:45PM ET Hope to see YOU there! Check out the schedule
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    Good points, and at least where I am shopping, the Outback XT is selling for about a grand more than the Forester XT. Not much difference in cost.

    other differences (comments?):

    Framed glass in Forester, open glass in Outback
    A bit more room around the Accelerator pedal in Outback than Forester
    Cleaner underside on Forester than Outback.
    No tail-happy handling on Forester .vs. Outback
    Different front seats and seat padding (I'm not sure where the Forester Power seat came from - it seems pretty comfy, possibly better than Outback's).

    As you mentioned, Outback has SI controls (Japanese Foresters apparently have this too). But not sure what benefit it is... SI either neuters the car (why does intelligent mode __cut__ maximum power rather than just roll off response?), or makes it hair-trigger (Sport Sharp). And yes Outback headlights are projectors, but their sharp cutoff is annoying rather than helpful.

    Not an easy choice, but for me, decider will be if Outback proves less responsive than the Forester (by responsiveness, I mean the drive system responding to the driver's input (pressing accelerator, shifting trans)) then the Forester will win out.
    I don't want the car taking a while to make up its mind when I have to pass somebody!

    BTW:
    Would be really nice if some folks from Subaru would join in the chat. I saw the last chat like that's dated around 2002 - a long time ago.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I asked, and nope. A mistake IMO.

    Even though rear visibility is excellent, i.e. the low rear window line lets you see everything in traffic, it would still be good to have a backup cam to help me line up a trailer, for instance.

    Not 100% necessary, but it would be nice, and it cannot cost more than $100. That's what they're sold for when sold seperately.
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