Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Most popular vehicles
Popular New Cars
- New Acura MDX
- New Acura RDX
- New Audi Q5
- New BMW 3 Series
- New BMW X3
- New Buick Enclave
- New Cadillac Escalade
- New Chevrolet Equinox
- New Chrysler 300
- New Dodge Challenger
- New Ford Edge
- New Ford Escape
- New Ford Expedition
- New Ford Explorer
- New Ford F-150
- New Ford Focus
- New Ford Mustang
- New Honda Accord
- New Honda Civic
- New Honda CR-V
- New Honda Fit
- New Honda Odyssey
- New Honda Pilot
- New Hyundai Elantra
- New Hyundai Santa Fe
- New Hyundai Sonata
- New Hyundai Tucson
- New Jeep Compass
- New Jeep Grand Cherokee
- New Jeep Wrangler
- New Mazda 3
- New Mazda 6
- New Mazda CX-5
- New Nissan Altima
- New Nissan Maxima
- New Nissan Rogue
- New Porsche Cayenne
- New Ram 1500
- New Subaru Crosstrek
- New Subaru Forester
- New Subaru Impreza
- New Subaru Outback
- New Tesla Model S
- New Tesla Model X
- New Toyota 4Runner
- New Toyota Camry
- New Toyota Corolla
- New Toyota Highlander
- New Toyota Prius
- New Toyota RAV4
- New Toyota Sienna
- New Toyota Tacoma
- New Volkswagen Jetta
- New Volvo XC60
- New Volvo XC90
Popular Used Sedans
- Used BMW 5 Series
- Used Chevrolet Impala
- Used Chevrolet Malibu
- Used Chrysler 200
- Used Dodge Charger
- Used Ford Fusion
- Used Ford Taurus
- Used Honda Accord
- Used Honda Civic
- Used Hyundai Elantra
- Used Hyundai Sonata
- Used Tesla Model S
- Used Toyota Camry
- Used Toyota Corolla
- Used Volkswagen Jetta
Popular Used SUVs
- Used Acura MDX
- Used Acura RDX
- Used Ford Edge
- Used Ford Explorer
- Used Honda CR-V
- Used Honda Pilot
- Used Hyundai Santa Fe
- Used Jeep Compass
- Used Lincoln Navigator
- Used Mazda CX-5
- Used Nissan Rogue
- Used Subaru Crosstrek
- Used Subaru Forester
- Used Tesla Model X
- Used Volvo XC90
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
And deleted the rear LSD. It would be interesting to see an 08 and an 09 tackle the inclined traction test to see which handles it better. "
All I've seen is how the '09 Forester handled the Catalina Island hill climbs. They appeared to do well, compared to the CR-V.
Subaru USA, for whatever reason, is not giving me a clear answer wrt the traction issues that might occur when you follow their manual's VDC directions. Perhaps they don't yet __know__ what the vehicle will do? Perhaps their Japanese headquarters will be more forthcoming with info in future?
Anyway, check out this TSB. Of course, it may not be the same rattle on yours, but my '07 and '08 Outbacks both had this rattle. It is intermittent, tends to happen (initially) over stiff bumps, and begins to evolve into a marble rattling around under the dash. This procedure was done on both cars and the problem was gone both times.
Far more significant on mine, though, were the glove box rattles. Horrible buggers, and the dealership never did manage to alleviate the problem.
You can not stop the advance of technology . It is quite known that car manufacturing are going 6-speed and even to 7-speed just to be more economical in petrol.
However you may try this link
http://www.cargurus.com/Cars/viewArticle.action?site=122198
It said:
The only unfortunate hand-me-down that the Forester has picked up from the Impreza is the latter's four-speed automatic. Now that its rivals boast five- or six-speed automatics or even a continuously variable transmission, the Forester's four-speed auto seems a generation behind the times. Sure, it only generates around a 15 percent efficiency loss compared to the five-speed manual transmission, but surely customers will expect something more. Subaru does build a good five-speed automatic that's seen in the Legacy, Outback and Tribeca, but one of our sources tells us that Subaru just doesn't have the production capacity to include the Forester on the list. Expect a five-speed auto on the face-lifted Forester in 2010.
Please don't get me wrong I like the 2009 Forester and I still do not make my mind up between the Forester or the Outlander and I don't have the passion of Subaru owners
On the other hand, Subaru just doesn't have the production capacity to include the Forester does certainly sound plausible and regardless of how well matched the 4-speed is, buyer perception is everything and most buyers believe that the more gears the better.
15 percent efficiency loss compared to the five-speed manual transmission
Love that statement! Yet another reason for me to prefer manuals :P
-Frank
www.fitzmall.com
Learn, live it, love it.
'09 Foresters at or $100-$200 above invoice. And they are totally legit.
I'll bet Subaru did something wrong with '09 so the same thing's in the Forester - the noise is coming right from where that center-most alignment pin probably is (I confirmed that by pressing on dash front_center and got loud creak as result), and where the hooks might be.
I'll let my dealer know what is going on and see if it can get fixed before it evolves into a bunch of marbles.
I've also looked very closely at the Forester's glove box. If there is squeaking going on there, I've not found it, unless it's in the hydraulic cylinder's hinge.
You've already decided on the Outlander and you're just trying to justify a decision you've already made.
In fact, you are now trolling the Honda Pilot boards, telling folks there you're shopping for a Pilot. I'm waiting for a "Please don't get me wrong I like the
2009 Forester2009 Pilot..."You're not fooling anyone.
Oh, and when you say "You can not stop the advance of technology ", you're absolutely right.
Mitsubishi announced they will add a DSG-style automatic to the V6 models next year, and IMHO you'd be a fool not to wait for that tremendous upgrade. If you don't wait, your transmission will be outdated by the end of the year.
I'll add a couple of things:
* dual exhaust outlets that look better, symmetrical
* wider opening doors for easier ingress/egress
The latter was an issue with my 98. Narrow doors, plus a deep foot well made it tricky to get in the rear seats. Not so with the 2009.
I can also add to Frank's list of things that disappeared, to be fair:
* bumper protector (my 98 had it)
* dash-top lidded storage bin
I have $35,000 to spend. If you extend your search you will see that I have also made some queries about 2009 Volkswagen Tiguan, 2009 Honda Pilot, 2009 Kia Borrego, 2009 Dodge Journey, 2009 Subaru Forester, and 2008 Mitsubishi Outlander.
I am not patriotic to any of those makes, just looking what will fulfill my interest and value for money.
Lets just hear about finding "faults" on this new Forester. For example the 2008 Honda Pilot has a lot of owner complaints about a vibration problem in this car. I will buy a SUV vehicle about June/July..this year.
Faults I have found so far in '09 Forester are dashboard creaking, some minor misalignment in doors (look real close and some of the door curves do not match each other), and it's using a lot of gas for its size (17 - 18 mpg is best so far; again, turbo version, not fully broken in).
As for Tiguan, looked promising but VW has had too many reliability problems for me to trust a first year VW, and unless you have a great dealer nearby, getting good service and part support could be an issue. Their AWD will be some form of Haldex system.
That is a lot. I just filled up my WRX today and recorded a bit over 26 mpg. I've never gotten below 21 mpg for a tank average.
I wouldn't expect you to get that kind of mileage, as the F-XT is heavier, it's an automatic, as well as being less aero-friendly.
Bob
I have read that with more power like on the Nissan Murano 6 cylinder, it is more acceptable.
Someone mentioned that Subaru gets their 5 speed auto transmission from Nissan. Would the new 5 speed auto transmission anticipated in the 2010 Forester be as good and durable as the existing 4 speed they are using? Is there a potential downside? Would would we really get better gas mileage? Is it a worthy reason to wait for the 2010's? Do you think Subaru will risk sales by putting a CVT exclusively in their cars? In one test I saw the Murano with CVT could not even begin to make it up a hill that the Forester ran right up.
The same problem has been noticed with the 4-cyl Outlanders that are implemented with CVT (ES, SE). Equally, the 2009 Nissan Murano 6-cyl has CVT but the noise of the 4-cyl are not in the 6-cyl Murano. Many reviews about the Murano say so. Generally they praise the Nissan engine as the best in the world. Some people like the peculiar noise others don’t.
Furthermore, the mechanism of the CVT is very different that the mechanism of 5 or 6 or 7 speed gears. I like traditional SUV (let say something box shape) and the Murano is not in my short list of prospective SUV to buy. Although a few disagree, more number of speed gears is better for petrol economy, specially for long journeys, where engaging the transmission at the higher gear will give you more mileages. I say this because it happens to me.
The 2008 Pilot has Variable Cylinder Management (VCM) where the engine switch from 6-cyl to 3-cyl when required (The 2009 Pilot 6-5-4-3) this is an alternative technology. However a great number of 2008 Pilots have complained about ghost vibrations, suspension problems and even premature brake discs replacement.
Granted the vehicle was slightly over 2 tons in weight, but once it actually started out, you could certainly suprise a few people with the acceleration it could hand out. Theres been a couple times where I've passed a slowly accelerating semi on an onramp[2 lane fade to one] using the freestyle's acceleration.
Consequently, when I got my 08 forester last october, I'm pushing it very nearly the same way I did the freestyle as far as acceleration. doesnt help mileage too much I suppose. In my mind, gears are more complex then the CVT method. One car I had, the trans locked into first gear once [granted, it had 100kmiles on it]. And thats the reason I liked the CVT because there are far fewer mechanical components that could cause problems in the future.
Admittedly, it could be a form of "exercise" for the geared transmission to suddenly accelerate from 30mph to 50 before snapping back into 3rd or 4th gear. But I dont know my way around cars mechanically that well so yeah. I like simpler the better myself. Yet, I too agree that 5 speeds would be best optimum for fuel economy purposes.
CVT vs geared isnt so much the issue as it is actually driving habits and how you treat the accelerator in start from stop or get up and go situations. I myself dont get as much fuel econ because I tend towards acceleration[entering freeway]. Even though we could go on about acceleration and transmissions for a long while, this thread is about the new forester...
I had my first impressions of it yesterday. and I must say that I need to perhaps talk about renting one for a day or something in order to see if its truly worth the extra monthly payment cost. I like the layout in someways, but I would prefer the cupholders beside the gear selector rather then the p brake, because the center storage where the aux input resides is a bit of a reach. the headroom is a plus, but the manual seat adjustment version seems to offer less legroom for the driver then the power seat version. I love the blue/black hud instruments. I only wish thered be the ETE [estim. time to empty, or estim miles to empty] and the other fuel estimation gadgets besides average mpg. I think someone knows what I'm talking about as there was one category of fuel usage that seemed the most accurate other then average, but the exact name escapes me.
One thing I didnt get to do which I should is test the 09 on the freeway, because that is where I seem to spend half my time driving.
One thing I'm curious about, is the pzev [partial zero emmission vehicle] how does that work? is there some methos to which the engine uses the fumes to reuse or convert some of that spent energy into something engine usable or what?
Most driving is to and from work. This involves going down a half mile, 600 foot high mountain, then city driving of up to 45 mph with many traffic lights. Going home is the reverse (all the lights, then up the hill). Temperatures have averaged 32 to 55 degrees. A lot of rain, a tiny bit of snow.
FYI, my former '04 Malibu Maxx was guzzling gas under same conditions here (guess was Maxx got about 18 mpg - I was filling tank a lot more in Portland OR). In S. Calif. , where most of my driving was Freeway, the Maxx got 24 mpg.
Wrt Forester XT, its tip-in, while smooth, is more aggressive than the Maxx (but less, fortunately, than Outback in Sport Sharp mode). A light foot's needed to save gas :shades:
Also, the XT's trans does a good job trying to match itself to speed and engine loads. Sport shift really makes a difference (it will hold gears longer and let the car downshift faster in passing situations). However, it's an adaptive trans, and Subaru warns that disconnecting battery or transmission services "reset" the transmission so that it has to re-learn your driving style.
5 speeds would be best optimum for fuel economy purposes
Based on what? If 5 speeds are good, shouldn't 6 speeds be better and 7 speeds even better? Much more important than the number of gears is how well matched the transmission is with the engine and how the transmission is programmed. A well designed auto transmission shifts smoothly, quickly and correctly anticipates which gear you need to be in.
-Frank
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=21789696&postcount=1
FROM: Subaru of America, Inc.
DEPARTMENT: Service Department
DATE: 04/04/2008
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
APRIL 4, 2008
IMMEDIATE STOP SALE ORDER
ALL SUBARU DEALERS
We regret to inform you that we must place an immediate stop sale order on all of the 2008/2009 Subaru Impreza and Forester vehicles equipped with a 2.5L Turbo Engine produced with the beginning chassis number and later as shown below.
Model Starting Chassis Number Production Date
Forester 701045 2008/01/08
Impreza 523363 (SEDAN)/825183 (HATCH)2008/01/08
The reason for this immediate Quality Assurance action is that there have been several reports of “Engine Knocking Noise” from other markets on vehicles produced after the production dates listed.
Initial investigation confirms an internal wear issue on the failed units.
In the interest of preventing any possibility of failures for our customers, we have chosen to isolate any potentially affected vehicles by ceasing sales of the potentially affected units until the root cause and correction can be identified.
All the other displacement engines and the 2.5L Natural Aspirated Engine are excluded from this action.
Your region/distributor will be contacting you with a detailed list of affected vehicles assigned to your dealership. However, dealer trades cannot be tracked so please be aware of the affected VIN range.
If you have a vehicle in inventory that falls into the affected vehicle range, please ensure that your sales and service staff are immediately notified that the unit is un-saleable until further notice from SOA or your region/distributor.
If any of those vehicles has an unusual engine noise, please notify the SOA Technical Helpline immediately with all of the details and submit an E-QMR.
Should a customer bring an affected vehicle into your service department for an unusual engine noise, please immediately arrange that they are given the use of a clean SSLP vehicle and notify the Technical Helpline and submit an E-QMR.
You will be contacted shortly thereafter on how to proceed.
We are still investigating whether any of the SIA produced Legacy Outback turbo vehicles are affected. If any action is needed on the SIA vehicles, you will be notified early next week.
Once again I am kicking myself in the A__ for buying a first year car. I gambled Subaru could rise above that, but obviously not.
No more 1st years, ever.
-Frank
The warning sign, they said, is if you hear a clunk or knocking during or just after the engine has started up.
They had no info as to what the problem actually is.
This only applies to the Turbo engine in '09 Forester and Impreza.
"APRIL 4, 2008
IMMEDIATE STOP SALE ORDER AMENDMENT 01 04:08 EST
ALL SUBARU DEALERS
We regret to inform you that we must place an immediate stop sale order on all of the 2008/2009 Subaru Impreza and Forester vehicles equipped with a 2.5L Turbo Engine produced with the beginning chassis number and later as shown below.
Model Starting Chassis Number Production Date
Forester 700175
Impreza 507657 (SEDAN)/800140 (HATCH)2007/11/01
This is a correction of the earlier VIN set:
**INCORRECT**Forester 701045 2008/01/08**INCORRECT**
**INCORRECT**Impreza 523363 (SEDAN)/825183 (HATCH)2008/01/08**INCORRECT**
The reason for this immediate Quality Assurance action is that there have been several reports of “Engine Knocking Noise” from other markets on vehicles produced after the production dates listed.
Initial investigation confirms an internal piston ring wear issue on the failed units. This investigation shows failure in material quality or incorrect material altogether where in extreme cases the rings have fragmented.
In the interest of preventing any possibility of failures for our customers, we have chosen to isolate any potentially affected vehicles by ceasing sales of the potentially affected units until the root cause and correction can be identified. "
Another thread from there says:
"It looks like 5 months of 2.5L turbo engine production in Japan might have incorporated the defective rings. And Subaru is still trying to determine whether those defective rings went to SIA's engine assembly line. This will be expensive to cure."
My gawd....
:surprise: :sick: :lemon:
Once again I am kicking myself in the A__ for buying a first year car. I gambled Subaru could rise above that, but obviously not.
No more 1st years, ever.
Is this really a first year car issue? Hasnt the Turbo been used in a few model over the last few years?
My current 03 Forester XS has a manual, but when I am ready for a newer one in 3 years I will be getting an AT, I hope the Foresters have either the 5 spd or CVT when I am ready.
Can the Subie Bucks coupons be transfered?
Is there a market for them at a discounted price to 3rd parties?
Long term quality control was not professionally performed and this is a serious punch to the prestige of Subaru America. Overconfidence in the reliability of Subaru cars maintained by patriotic all the way is a sombre matter. Can the affected owners claim a Lemon demand to get their money back?
If someone is expecting 100% reliability from any auto manufacturer, they're definitely overconfident. Subaru has had a very good track record according to many sources, and IMHO has earned the confidence that, as a whole, Subarus are some of the most reliable vehicles made. A few makes are more reliable as a whole, and many more are less reliable. If you buy a Subaru, the odds are very good that it will be reliable, but there is always a chance it won't be. No manufacter is free from problems.
We don't even know the number of vehicles this affects, or the percentage of Subarus sold with this problem. Can't be more than 10%. Let's wait & see what Subaru does to fix things before declaring the affected turbos lemons.
Thank you. Your post was a reasonable, rational response to batman47's inflammatory prattle.
-mike
Still, as jeffmc suggests, I'll wait and see and try to keep track of what's going on with this, before truly declaring my Forester a lemon.
Was this downhill with a tailwind? :P
But if you looking for AWD, cargo space and good stereo, you might want to consider the 2.4L Outlander Special Edition or the V6 Outlander version. Outlander has better AWD, more cargo, excellent optional Rockford Fosgate stereo w/650 watt amplifier, mp3 music server, 5/10 year warranty, and Consumer Reports rating of the best predicted reliability in small SUV category. The comparo thread is here: Forester vs. Outlander
Forester was on the list for the lowest TCO.
And yes, folks, chelentano is extremely pro-Mitsubishi, have no doubt. He and I have debated before in other threads.
While I'm replying to you - have you found a video to prove the Outlander can climb one of those ramps that simulate driving on ice?
Didn't think so.
You were the one stating how important transmission technology is, what is a couple of extra months' wait to get what is arguably the best type of automatic transmission available today, a dual clutch setup?
If you buy a V6 Outlander now, yours will seem outdated in the transmission department just a few months later.
Here is Edmunds' Blog entry:
http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/4598
a way to offer both fuel savings and enhanced performance
I'll be very interested to see what you end up buying. I guess if you end up buying the current V6 model with the old school 6 speed auto, transmission technlogy wasn't as important to you as you stated.
I will prefer to wait until fast thinking owners will try this new transmission first. When the transmission has proved reliable (about 5 years from now) then I will change my vehicle no necessarily an Outlander or Forester. For example I am considering the 2009 Honda Pilot but my wife has put some restriction in the amount of money to spend. I am even considering the Tiguan.
I don't give up the 2009 Forester 2.5X + premium package. So I would like to hear more first hand experience for this new car.
Was this downhill with a tailwind?
Nope. City driving I managed 17mpg consistently. On the highway usually 30mpg and often on long cruise control trips I hit 33-35 doing 75-80mph. The gearing on it was extreme. In 4th gear at 145mph we turned about 4500-4600 rpms IIRC. If it could hit redline in 4th gear (7000) it would be going 200 mph, obviously it could never attain that due to wind resistance and lack of power, but that gives you an idea of what it was turning at 80mph.
-mike
Mitsubishi new Twin Clutch SST transmission is very cool, but Outlander's current 6-speed tranny with paddle shifters is quite modern. What is outdated "old school" is 4-speed auto which has been around for 30 years and will be around for the next 20, thanks to Subaru.
I've driven the Audi dual clutch trans several times and found accelerating usually gave smooth shifts, but slowing down or cruising was rather jerky and unpleasant.
But yes, it is more efficient than a torque-converter based auto-trans.
Some here may wonder why I didn't consider the Mitsubishi Outlander. Simply because there was only one badly rated dealer anywhere near me.