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Comments
Thanks for the information on the Tweeters and subwoofers. Now I have to decide on the Sirius radio. If I had to do over, I would order the Ipod interface kit instead of the Sirius radio. Good news, that I have not it it installed, but the dealership already ordered it (Sirius radio) :mad: . Oh well! I guess in am stuck with Sirius!
Well according the SOA, there's not enough enthusiasts to justify the costs
I'd love to see Subaru bring the Forester STi to the U.S. but clearly it would only appeal to a very small segment of the population. With the canceling of the XT manual, I suspect that the odds of ever getting the STi have gotten even more remote
-Frank
In addition a 4 stroke boxer engine has perfect primary balance, and a small amount of secondary vibration which is dampened by the flywheel. Primary balance is much more important than secondary.
http://www.subaru.com.sg/dif/dif02.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_balance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_engine
A quote from the last link:
"One benefit of using a boxer engine versus a V-engine is that the design provides good balance because each piston's momentum is counterbalanced by the corresponding piston movement of the opposite side. Boxers are one of only four layouts that have a natural dynamic balance; the others being the straight-6, the V12 and the wankel engine. These engines can run very smoothly and free of vibrations with a four-stroke cycle and do not require a balance shaft or counterweights on the crankshaft to balance the weight of the reciprocating parts, which are required in other engine configurations. Note that this is generally true of boxer engines regardless of the number of cylinders, but not true for all V and straight, or inline engines."
Some centuries ago Copernicus (The Polish astronomic) dare to say that planet earth is not the center of the universe. He made many enemies because of this. It has to pass many years after his death to be shown that indeed the ‘Sun’ was the center of the universe not the earth. You mates give it just a thought about this gravity force on the horizontal piston and if you have some physics knowledge you may not disregard the possibility of this phenomena indeed happen. I could just demonstrate my hypothesis by saying that nobody has copy the layout of Subaru engine in spite of the fact that the patent for this Subaru engine can be obtained free from the USA Congress Library.
Equally Diesel the French mechanics that invented the diesel engine at the start of the last century, there were so many economical interests involve that conveniently Diesel was found death and his death was declared a suicidal act. Nobody talked again about the diesel engine for 20 years.
I do not need to show any truth or false. You made an outrageous claim that Subaru Boxer engines are not reliabile due to the layout. You need to show it's true. I don't need to show it's false.
Let me know when you have some substantive authoritative proof. Not some random posting on the internet.
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/forester/forester2009photos1.html
"A hypothesis is just a hypothesis. The answer to any hypothesis is true or false. If you don’t like my hypothesis then show me that it is ‘false’."
Hypothesis
A hypothesis is an educated guess, based on observation. Usually, a hypothesis can be supported or refuted through experimentation or more observation. A hypothesis can be disproven, but not proven to be true.
Example: If you see no difference in the cleaning ability of various laundry detergents, you might hypothesize that cleaning effectiveness is not affected by which detergent you use. You can see this hypothesis can be disproven if a stain is removed by one detergent and not another. On the other hand, you cannot prove the hypothesis. Even if you never see a difference in the cleanliness of your clothes after trying a thousand detergents, there might be one you haven't tried that could be different.
Theory
A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. A theory is valid as long as there is no evidence to dispute it. Therefore, theories can be disproven. Basically, if evidence accumulates to support a hypothesis, then the hypothesis can become accepted as a good explanation of a phenomenon. One definition of a theory is to say it's an accepted hypothesis.
I am sorry to bring the question of the gravity forces involvement in an engine piston, let’s move on with another subject.
What Subaru owners? All two of them? Did you know Lexus had a major sludge issue? You should be more worried about that, than the Subaru owners who disassembled their engines.
I have not heard of this issue and have no interest or time in finding out if this is even true. Seems to me CR would have reported on this.
My hypothesis: Your hypothesis was baloney.
I have at least one data point to prove this hypothesis is true
-Frank
P.S. j/k
I could ask the dealer--after all, the salesman told me they sold six Foresters in yesterday's inclement weather.
I am also considering a Rav, 6-cylinder with 4WD, but am leaning slightly toward the Forester at this point--maybe because I haven't driven the Rav in quite awhile, and have never driven the 6. Any input on the choice welcomed.
Perhaps this article from www.reuters.com may give you something fresh:
For 2008, Hyundai is expected to post a 31.6 percent rise in net profit to 2.21 trillion won from a 1.68 trillion won in 2007, according to a poll of 23 brokerages by Reuters Estimates.
Subaru gains is not even marginally close to Hyundai. Only 'idiots' buy Hyundai.
How much from it's cars? And btw, these are only estimates. Have you bought your Hyundai stock based on these estimates?
That hypothesis is false as, unfortunately, I've been in new RAV4s with rattles.
Does dealer have balloons everywhere? Salesmen lurking by the front door or front lot waiting to pounce on buyers? Handoffs from assistant to sales to sales manager? If some or all is true, sounds like a dealer right from Edmunds' inside car dealer story pages.
Sometimes the dealer will have an internet department that is more reasonable. But beware...the finance department can add the sleaze back (that happened to me at the Power franchises).
Wrt rattles, I have had them in most of my cars (including Honda, Toyota, etc.). Sometimes they are fiendishly hard to find thanks to multiple sound reflections going on inside cars. I drove one upscale Lexus, certified used, which had lots of dashboard creaks. Whatever...sometimes rattles are easy to fix, sometimes not.
You also missed the 2nd most common issue - wheel bearings.
The head gasket material was revised for 2002. The wheel bearing design was changed entirely to the new sealed type for 2003.
No vehicle is perfect, and yes the Forester has had a couple of common flaws, but the piston rings was just not one of them.
For a buyer coming out of a 100k+ mile perfectly reliable Lexus, all I have to say is to a search on "peeling paint" in the Outlander threads before you pull the trigger.
Does the iPod kit include Bluetooth? To be honest, I have no idea. I don't really see the appeal. I have a Bluetooth headset for my phone. That's all I need. Even that is a bit of a nuisance because then you need 2 chargers, one for the phone and another for the headset. It tries to solve a problem I don't have (speakerphone works fine for me).
My wife's iPod will hopefully plug in to the Aux input, though I have not tried it yet.
Review coming soon...
The whole family came along. This was as much a test-fit as it was a test-drive.
The wife drove. I had gone alone last time, but this will be her car. I sat in the back seat with the 2 kids, so I observed it as a passenger this time.
Body roll is mitigated very nicely. Impressive. Somehow it's not stiff, either. We went over some train tracks and you hardly felt them.
Wifey floored the throttle a few times and it moves along well enough. No where near the rush of an XT turbo, but we want something significantly more fuel efficient than our minivan.
One big plus on the LL Bean is the perforated leather is very nice, much better than the leather on the Honda Odyssey (hard) we test drove while minivan shopping last year. The arm rests on the doors are a microfiber/suede material that we all loved. Very plush. Noticeably nicer than the cloth on the X model, the arm rest as well.
We sat 3 across, no problem. My 5 year old sat on the hump and said space and comfort were fine. I'm 6' tall and did not feel cramped, plus I'll be in the front anyway. Big windows and the huge moonroof prevent any feelings of claustrophobia, even with 5 people inside.
The GPS. Oh boy. Complaint time.
The interface was not intuitive. The screen is not as big as I expected, I think 6.1". It was probably not set up for the Region we were in, but it failed to find 2 gas stations around the corner, and it could not find my home address, either. The display also seemed dim, though to be fair I didn't try to adjust the brightness.
We will definitely pass on the GPS. I actually preferred my Garmin, and that way we get 6 CDs instead of just 1, for $1400 less.
The wife looked at all the colors and wants either of the 2 Silver colors or the Blue. 2nd choice would be Red or Sage Green, but she really would prefer those first 3 colors. She does want the LL Bean model, but not the NAV option.
Though I like to sleep on big decisions like this, she was nearly ready to buy that car on the spot. If they had a non-NAV model in stock I'm pretty sure we would have driven it home. :shades:
You can see the 4.3" Nuvi screen with the vent mount actually resides closer to the driver, so the screen appears to be nearly the size of the built-in unit.
It's also a little brighter, though again I did not adjust the brightness. I had the same complaint about the Mazda CX9, but not the Subaru Tribeca.
The interface was a bit less intuitive, too. You seem to have to take one step more than you should each time, hit one more button than necessary. When I hit POI (points of interest) I want to see categories. It wants me to type in a name, or you have to hit a button to get the categories.
The way I see it, I'm always looking for something - gas, food, whatever. I don't know what restaurant is closer, so show me the whole category.
It could not find my addy nor could it find two Exxons on Rockvile Pike that have been there for ages. The East coast DVD was inserted, I checked, but I'm not sure if the region was properly set. Probably not. The salesman didn't know how to program it, either.
Other nit-picks? Selection. Why only one of the most popular model? The salesman told me these are the fastest selling by far.
I like the XT wheels better than these, so I would trade if they let me. Maybe I'll ask later.
I like the sport grille but wish I could swap without having to pay extra for the option. The standard grille does look good with the silver, though.
Perhaps posters here can advise whether or not sport grille helps with radiator airflow (better? The same?). It is pricy, though.
I don't know if this is funny or scary but the same dealership (Fitzgerald) still has 7 unsold 2007 Outlanders, brand new.
-Frank
I am definitely glad I bought my 09 Bean when I did, because Subaru is no longer going to make them.
Nope and probably never will be.
Can someone offer me a site besides Edmunds, and KBB to check on the trade in value of my 06 Passat.
There's an online NADA appraisal site that you can use
Also has anyone paid Invoice or less for the 09 Forester llBean edition
FitzMall is selling them for $200 over invoice.
Keep in mind that how high (trade-in value) or how low (new car price) a given dealer will go depends on many variables. The most important one being the law of supply and demand. I.e. if the dealer thinks someone else is willing to pay a higher price, they have no incentive to sell it to you for less.
-Frank
Basically he's had a perfect experience with his previous car, and expects the same thing from his next car. I gave an example of how no vehicle is perfect (unrealistic expectations).
Those mud flaps look sweet, that vehicle is Rally Cross ready! :shades:
Not sure I'd want that on road going car, though. They stick out way too much and the color doesn't match. It might also create more wind resistance (noise, lower fuel economy).
Forester has factory mud flaps that are more custom fitted.
While the screen on your Nuvi is large for a portable unit, it's still not as large as that found on a built-in unit.
Selection? I'm not sure I understand that comment? Are you referring that it's only available on premium trim models? If yes—I agree. I'm hoping some carmaker will make this feature even available on base trim models.
As to the sport grille on the Forester. I did see one in person, and it does look good. IMO it's the "only" Subaru sport grille that looks good.
Bob
They said the LL Bean was in demand, big time. They've sold every one they've had so far. It's the most popular model.
Makes you wonder why Subaru is discontinuing their relationship with LL Bean, come to think of it.
The Nuvi does sit in front of the vent but we had the A/C on and it didn't seem to be a problem.
Check out the screen brightness and glare - the Nuvi is actually better (though to be fair I did not adjust it).
The lease on my present SUV (Buick) is up in June and the dealer is going to locate one in Dark Grey for me. He is going to try to swap a black one he has on order. It should arrive the second week of June. It will be a Limited since that is all that is being shipped right now. No NAV, as I also have a Garmin.
Not exactly sure of the price, but I have been dealing with the same small dealer since 1992 and they have always been very fair. He is supposed to call me today or tomorrow with the final numbers. He stated that they came out with a very high residual on the car and the interest rate is not too bad. We shall see.
Phil
You get the gray, I call dibs on either of the silvers or the blue.
Also, with in-dash nav units, don't you have to program it first? By that I mean—even though it may be selected for the east coast (or Maryland), it may not know where the actual car is. I could be wrong, but I believe you have to do something to let the nav unit know where this vehicle is. If that's the case, that would explain as to why it couldn't find your address etc.
Bob
I happen to like the store so I have no problem with the logo. I have an LL Bean spring jacket, the kids have winter jackets from them. It's all very high quality stuff, IMO.
Have you checked out their stores? They're pretty cool. They have a really nice outlet store up in Hagerstown Premium Outlets.
Bob
There's one at Tysons Corner, and outlets in Hagerstown and also in Rehoboth Beach, DE.
No sales tax in DE! wOOt!
Bob
We looked around for it, but that's the type of thing we'd have to read the manual for. Still, it wasn't intuitive to me. I put in the East Coast DVD, it knew what street I was on. That should have been enough.
Also, the way the menus are laid out seem to take extra steps compared to the Garmin.
We would also lose our Favorites (100+), and have to re-enter those one at a time. Garmin lets you back then up to PC, so I can copy from device to device (we do this already). Also, I can enter addresses on my PC, which is easier, then upload them to the GPS unit.
I guess I'll try to explain it this way. Using a Garmin is intuitive the way an Apple computer is intuitive. Things are just where you expect them to be. There's not much to learn. You can just turn it in and start working. The interface is more natural and intuitive.
The OE GPS felt more like....SAP. You can do everything, sure, but you have to deal with long, deep menus and think like a crazy German engineer.
I'm no expert here, so I could be wrong; but that makes sense to me.
Bob
As to the sport grille on the Forester. I did see one in person, and it does look good. IMO it's the "only" Subaru sport grille that looks good.
Although I haven't seen one in person, I agree. The old sport grille made the Forester look like a baby Lincoln Navigator. In comparison, the new sport grille looks like it's from the STi parts bin and is a definite improvement over the generic Chrysler one that comes standard.
-Frank
back in the early 80's when I bought a new Dodge Colt (which was an econo-car built by Mitsu for Dodge, I believe).
The car did not have mud flaps, and after driving one winter thru the New Hampshire slush, the paint was completely sand-blasted off the lower side areas (just behind the wheel wells).
Needless to say Mitsubishi had the "priveledge"