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Yeah, and they just announced today they'll be doing ANOTHER layoff. So better get them Lincolns out NOW, else never may come early.
Unless you're talking about a different article from the one I saw at detnews.com - it doesn't say that at all. It just says that the production version will offer seating for 7 and I think that's still possible even with the 'bustle-back' design. It's also possible they'll offer 2 versions - one with a 3rd row and one without.
I'm also not saying that it won't change - it might and if it does then your criticism is spot on. But given Mulally's position on past concepts I'd be very surprised if the basic design gets altered for production.
Yeah, there's talk of a 2 row and a 3 row version. Myself I doubt that. Would cost them too much to build 2 versions. When's the last time Ford built 2 versions of anything, save Mustang?
Taurus/Taurus X?
I read those forums and I don't remember anything but speculation, but I could be wrong. I'm not a big fan of that look but it is distinctive.
I'd like to think there is enough room (the concept is longer than the Flex) for a 3rd row without changing the rear too much. Then I'd like to see a 3 row option and a 2 row option with captain's chairs and extra leg room. That would make a nice livery vehicle since most only carry one or two passengers plus you have tons of luggage space - much better than a TC or CV.
allen: Taurus/Taurus X ?? HAHA What was that 60's song? "The Name Game"
And if Ford can do 3 versions of a vehicle (Taurus/Sable/Taurus X) on one platform there's no reason they can't do 3 with the Flex platform (Flex, MKT 4 and MKT 7).
In the accompanying article, we learn that the Fusion is moving to the Mondeo chassis in 2009 or 10. Wow, the great Mazda 6 chassis didnt last long eh? Doesnt seem to me to be very economical to be changing the whole car from tires up after just a few years. I'm sure they know what they're doing though, eh? Oh, except Dearborn is now in a feud with Ford Australia who both claim to be designing the new GRWD platform.
So back to the Fusion and we learn that there almost certainly wont be a new Milan. Oh and the Mariner is being dropped to be replaced, just EXACTLY as I predicted, by a Lincoln version of the Ford Escape. Boy, I'll bet that'll be a fine luxury effort. Can u believe Ford is going to rebadge THAT POS as a Lincoln? What's next? A Locus? So that will leave Mercury with ... the Sable and ... Marquis? Ha. So, this info pretty much confirms that Mulally is FOS when he says Mercury is safe. Mercury will be gone by 2010, just as, again, I predicted.
Thinking about what Lincoln will have though - a MKZ, not exactly a luxury car, a rebadged Escape HAHAHAHA, a rebadged Edge, the mks FINALLY? with a cheapo interior and maybe the Navigator by Gillette or will they finally retire that? It seems to me that it's not Mercury that's going away, but Lincoln is being morphed into an expensive Mercury.
Oh and they're gonna put bigger wheels on the Edge Sport. Now isnt that special. No engine or anything. Just wheels and a trim name. As to engines, they're saying the much anticipated ecoboost engine will get 2! that's TWO WHOLE mpg more than the engine it replaces. Wow. And how much more will they cost? And how much less reliable will they be? Bye bye (Ford). :confuse:
The 2010 MKZ will hopefully reach a bit higher than the current model. It needs the 3.7 engine, a new interior with rear HVAC vents, manumatic, power tilt/telescope wheel, the split grille, and hood struts. I don't know if it will get all that but it needs it. The MKS better get the Ecoboost SOON.
Jeyhoe, you came up with a great name for the Escape based Lincoln - MKPOS! Good job! I see why Ford likes for you to attend focus groups!
They're talking about using the EB 3.5L to replace 4.6 and 5.4 V8s, or for EB 2.5L to replace the 3.5L/3.7L V6s. Same power, 2 mpg improvement. Considering automakers go out of their way to gain just a tenth of one mpg - 2 is huge.
The rest of the article, and most of your rant, is simply wrong.
If you consider that 16M vehicles will be sold this year and 100K is a good sales target - that means you only have to convince 6.25 people out of every 1000 buyers. And it probably means you can sell at a premium instead of bargain basement.
I know they know lots more about it than me, even though they cant agree on who is designing the platform for the thing (and THAT is public knowledge. There are stories to that effect out there)
And REALLY glad they can screw the customer over big time on this, selling for a premium price, as they did with the Navigator. Which they lowered the price on by 5 or 6 thousand a few years after I bought mine. I was ruminating the other day about what I might replace it with. Having done more research now on selling it than just checking the KBB price, I realize I wont be able to afford to sell it. Cant afford to drive it. No one to blame but myself and the environmentalists and democrats but I digress again. I'm now hoping now they'll pay ME to take it off the road to save the planet. That oughtta work, eh?
I know you said most of my rant was BS, but gave no specifics. Since I can verify what I said about the GRWD, what else was wrong? You dont really believe they're going to keep Mercury, do you?
And I loved bruce's name for the Lincoln Escape - the MKPOS !!! HAHAHA GREAT one bruce.
I thought my "Locus" was pretty good too, eh? Cant wait to see the lincolnized version of THAT.
People aren't going to switch from V8 Navigators and Expeditions to tiny cars. A unibody crossover with V6 power should provide a good migration path. I don't see the other luxury players abandoning their mid to large sized crossovers.
The BS I was referring to was the MT information. The MKT will be built on the Flex platform - there's no question about that or who will be designing and building it - at least not that I've heard. I think you're confusing this with the GRWD platform. I highly doubt there is really any confusion or debate as to whether the Aussies or US would take the lead - it sounds like it's going to Dearborn and the Aussies are whining about it.
And you should know by now that a small Lincoln crossover would NOT be a rebadged Escape or even a European Kuga. It would just use the same platform. The MKS and MKT should be proof that Lincoln is no longer in the rebadge business.
I must apologize because I was thinking the T is the RWD car. Forgot it's a flex. Must admit - good job of badge engineering - fooled me! One is square ugly, other curvy-ugly though so there's still a family resemblence. And we havent seen the interior yet - dont even begin to tell me it will resemble the concept.
Sorry, Bruce, MT says ALL NEW Fusion in 2010 and will be on 3 year-old Mondeo platform. Since Allen has not refuted that, it sounds like truth to me. In fact, they also rumor that the next taurus will be on that and that CD3 will probably go away since only the Taurus X and mks will be on it. From which I infer that the mks will probably be another 3 year and out model cause the taurus x has no reason to live with the flex and edge around. And could probably further infer that Volvo will be going on the block soon.
As for badge engineering, using 2 not-yet-existing cars as 'proof' while the only 2 that exist (Z and X) are corrolaries to your theorem, is a bit absurd. As for the escape, good luck trying to make that a lincoln, badge engineered or not. MT states unequivocally that Lincoln escape is in development for 2010 and Mariner is going away. And hey- since they think they can tack on $10000 to the price of the escape if it has the Lincoln name on it it's a no-brainer for them. It'll be another crappy Lincoln, but what's one more? Can u imagine cross shopping the escape with the FX-35 or the LX-350? HAHAHAHAHA
And one more time - Is Mulally lying about Mercury not going away? You know he is. I've bought my last Ford product, tell u that.
But I did refute it by agreeing with Bruce! The 2010 Fusion will roll off the lines in December and be on sale in January. It's still using the CD3 platform (maybe with a few small modifications) and will have a new nose, new upgraded interior, new 2.5L I4, 240 hp 3.0L (with better FE than the old 221 hp 3.0L) and a 2.5L I4 Hybrid. There is supposed to be at least a limited sport version with the 3.5L V6 but that's not confirmed.
CD3 and EUCD will merge in the next generation CD platform in another 2-3 years.
Oh c'mon, George. It's called change. The OLD platforms shared a lot including body panels, interiors and even drivetrains. The NEW platforms don't share any body panels, drivetrains or interiors. Nobody would look at the MKS and Taurus and think they're even related. I don't know what other proof you could want.
And one more time - Is Mulally lying about Mercury not going away? You know he is.
No, I don't know that it is and neither do you. I don't think Ford has decided what to do with Mercury yet. What they've done is decide to put all of their resources into Ford and Lincoln right now. There will be a 2010 Milan because it was already "in the can".
Mercury will not be rebadged Fords going forward - that part seems clear. It MIGHT be killed - or it might be used for smaller volume niche and unique vehicles. Ford doesn't have to decide right now. There aren't any stand alone Mercury dealers.
Of course the single biggest reason to keep Mercury around is Jill Wagner. Maybe someone can convince her to start selling those rebadged ugly Lincolns that nobody wants to buy.
MT also talks that Fusion might be next with ecoboost after mks.
Nothing to say about Mercury though?
I will add two more things:
The good looking Taurus that is scheduled for late 2009 introduction (2010 model year) will be on an upgraded version of the current platform - D3 -2, same as the MKS. After that, around 2012, it very well may merge to something else.
I also subscibe to MT along with C & D and Autoweek. Often the folks at MT don't know their *sses from a hole in the ground. C & D is usually a lot more accurate.
in person. I shudder to imagine an Englishmans interpretation of what a "Lincoln" is supposed to be.
Umm.....yes. Here's one. I've tried out the SYNC, and it's so far superior to anything GM has, especially their outdated and stale Blondestar product. The only car that matches everything Ford has with SYNC is Lexus, and of course, it's much more costly to drive Lexus than Ford. Yes, I'll be there to line up for SYNC in my next
Ford truck or SUV. Maybe even in my next Luxury Car, if it's a Lincoln. I AM impressed, but......YMMV.
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I know this - God got his/her money the old fashioned way - He/She earned it.
OTOH, Bill Gates is a lying, thieving monopolist who's never had an original thought that didn't revolve around obtaining by whatever means necessary someone else's intellectual capital.
Both of them are liberals, both of them create a ton of jobs in this country and elsewhere, both of them are geniuses. I find it interesting WHAT they drive, but beyond that, they don't interest me much. I don't spend any emotion on either of them.
But I have even more issues with their business practices. They used to require a pc seller to buy a windows license for every PC they sold, whether or not windows was actually installed or not, otherwise they would not allow the seller to install windows at all (or at a much higher price). Since 90%+ of pc buyers wanted windows this amounted to extortion and forced Linux and other non-MS operating system users to pay for windows even if they didn't use it.
Now back to the MKT - I saw a spy shot of a test mule - looks like only minor differences from the concept (on the outside).
And I don't think most bazillionaires in the end give a rat's [non-permissible content removed] (give a rat's [non-permissible content removed]...in the end...) about American workers if there is enough cash in doing it some other way. That's the way they often get to the place where they can order God and his minions around. But then I am just cynical about people who amass fortunes greater than many small countries.
Given that the thing looks a lot more like another tall wagon now, how will this really go over, given the Pacifica/Caddy SRX/Taurus X tall wagon look falls flat with the buying public? Provocative and polarizing is what Lincoln needs, not cautious station wagon styling, which is only jazzed up only a bit with the cow catcher grill. Oh, well, glad I'm not making these decisions. Plus, I can cross this thing off my future shopping list. One of the last things I want is a CUV that more or less blends in with everything else.
Meanwhile, the rest of the MKT is boring wagon. Very big too. The wagon-y look has not done well. Stupid buying public response, as SUVs and CUVs are nothing more than tall station wagons with metal bending that makes them look either more butch or more sporty (as if a big heavy tall car can really be sporty). The MKT production model looks designed by committee...dumbed down. Lincoln should know by now that bolder grills don't change perceptions much if the rest of the ride is unremarkable looking (examples being the Navigator, the MKX, changing the grill of the Zephyr/MKZ a couple times). The MKT may have done ok in a better market, but the timing sucks.
Hopefully, Lincoln has some plans other than competent bores like the MKS down the pike. The Concept C (like the Mini but far more useful) would sell in this climate, but even if they are serious, 2013 is probably a realistic sell date, And the world and the ball will have moved a lot more by then. Seems Lincoln can't get a break. No one had any idea how truly truly damaging Bill Ford was to Ford and Lincoln. Had they had the Continental and NaviCross to sell in the early 2000s, they might have a bit more development money now for products that would address current conditions.
One thing is sure...once the economy recovers some (and who knows how long that will take), oil prices will shoot up again. For once in a long time, Ford could be at the forefront of things, if they continue to develop innovations like the Concept C, for Lincoln, and the Fiesta, Ka and Focus for Ford.
We'll see if Ecoboost works well with 4 cylinders...the 3.5 Ecoboost V6 is awfully complex, adds weight and requires AWD (more weight). A good small modern V8 with cylinder deactivation could easily match (or best) both the hp and mpg. Hopefully, the Ecoboosts will be further refined so that mpg continues to climb. Eord has their eggs in this basket now...I really really wish this effort well.
Meanwhile, here we have the MKT...well almost...it is not even for sale until this summer! Maybe it will catch on with former Navi owners...
I do not think Ecoboost is going to be the catchall improvement people are hoping for. It does remain to be seen, but if it were TRULY the life saver for Ford I say it would have been rolled out across the lines. Ford would not be placing it in their luxury segment first and almost exclusively right now if it were really that fabulous. No, I think it will provide modest mpg improvement that will quickly diminish to zero when you stomp the throttle. In short, it sounds to me like a marketing point rather than a substantive change.
The reason they're debuting the 3.5L first is simple - it was designed as a performance engine first (original name was twinforce) way before gas hit $4/gallon. The fuel economy angle came recently, and it will take time to get the smaller displacement ecoboost engines online. If this was the only thing Ford had to work on they might be able to do it more quickly, but the resources are stretched thin and there were more important things to work on, like the 2010 Fusion Hybrid and Taurus.
I am a former Navi owner (twice). I think the MKT is the ugliest thing I've seen in ages.....and I was really considering it - hoping it would be gorgeous like the MKS. Oh well - it seems to me the FLEX is a bomb, and this looks to be even worse. Maybe I'll be wrong. I drove Lincolns for 16 years, and only quit in 05 when they had nothing left worth driving but the Navigator, and I didn't want another SUV then. I wish I could go back to them, but can't do it with the product they have still. Love the looks of the MKS, but not the little engine that can't.....
I also think the MKT will be relegated to livery service if it survives and the new MKS will be on a stretched and much better platform. Apparently Wolff was only able to make small changes to the MKZ (other than the grille) so it will be interesting to see how the first clean sheet design looks. But I'm sure it will be worlds better than the MKT.