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KIA Rondo Handling, Tires, Suspension
e_net_rider
Member Posts: 1,380
Vehicle handles quite poorly.
In twice for alignment checks so far. Handled better after first when all but 2 specs were out, but still had 5 out because vehicle has no camber or caster adjustment. Two weeks later went back, same tech and machine, and 8 were out. Maybe vehicle won't hold alignment either? After loosening lots of things and trying to force any slack in bolt holes, etc. left with 4 out of spec and are sending to another alignment shop for opinion. Total of 14 specs for adjustment, if vehicle had adjustment for all.
So handling is still poor. Too much caster likely causing some of hard steering issue. And excessive forces are already (5600 miles) showing a tiny bump of looseness in steering. Vehicle not driven on rough roads.
Hard to make a vehicle handle properly if you can not align it!
In twice for alignment checks so far. Handled better after first when all but 2 specs were out, but still had 5 out because vehicle has no camber or caster adjustment. Two weeks later went back, same tech and machine, and 8 were out. Maybe vehicle won't hold alignment either? After loosening lots of things and trying to force any slack in bolt holes, etc. left with 4 out of spec and are sending to another alignment shop for opinion. Total of 14 specs for adjustment, if vehicle had adjustment for all.
So handling is still poor. Too much caster likely causing some of hard steering issue. And excessive forces are already (5600 miles) showing a tiny bump of looseness in steering. Vehicle not driven on rough roads.
Hard to make a vehicle handle properly if you can not align it!
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Tire has a slant pattern running through tread from one sidewall to the other.
Looking at rear of vehicle and tires the slant runs in the same direction on all four.
I strongly suspect this is wrong and may contribute to handling issue.
I do not know which direction this will pump water but it seems likely it will either through you to the shoulder or into oncoming traffic.
I think this is the same tire =http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Hankook&tireModel=Optimo+H418
And carefully checking the tire shown if all four were mounted with the same sidewall to the outside of wheel, the diagonals would either slant to center of vehicle or away from center, left and right side from rear or front as long as you check all from same position.
It seems the only way KIA could have gotten differently is they mounted left side tires with one sidewall out and the opposite sidewall out on the right side of vehicle.
Dealer offered to turn one side around, but now faced with how the tread was broke in.
It took awhile to get the point across about how the slant pattern exists and is effected by which sidewall is mounted out. As if they did not realize it. Also told them there seemed to be excessive squirm when driving across rain grooves. He told me that most of the water would be going between the tire ribs, the grooves that separate the grooves. Probed deeper concerning the slant pattern and if standing water existed. Trying to be non-committal he admitted an effect.
He suggested having KIA turn two of the tires so that the same sidewall was to the face of the wheel on all four.
And told me to have KIA get with them for allowance on different tire model. Pretty sure I will take this up since I learned something else about the tread pattern. Sidewall sipes are only half the tread deep.
Wet roads are a huge concern where I live. And beyond wet since pockets of water often stand on roadway and it often rains very hard. Not very cold here, seldom any snow, but traction under other conditions very important.
So when buying tires I always look for those with highest traction ratings wet and dry. As to wet and standing water conditions, I've always looked for tires that have sidewall sipes the full depth of tread. I have not tried any of the newer water treads since the sidewall sipe seems to be important for conditions here.
Often tires do not have a full depth sidewall sipe, afterall they are testing on new tires. Most new tires start with 10/32" of tread, and considered worn out at 2/32".
Often manufacturers make those sipes only halfway of depth to slow wear on outer ribs of tires. But again turning to wet road and hydroplaning, those sipes are completely gone with 5/32" of tread left. A condition I definitely don't want on my vehicles. If 2/32" is worn out, does that mean the sidewall sipes are worn out at 2/32 + 5/32 = 7/32" of remaining tread? Something you should think about because the tire should, would be greatly derated from its new performance at that point of wear under watery conditions.
P.S. Tires are the single most important investment for your vehicle. More than brakes because they are only effective to the point of the tire and its traction.
(Attention site moderator: I wish they would allow you the post details in the left column as regards to your location and what you drive, like on other forums - it seems such a waste of space and time)
After KIA had it to Toyota rack twice and they could not get it in spec, they wanted it run across a third rack to make sure. They asked who I used and I mentioned Rutland, so they sent me there. After a few more hours of baby sitting, they told me some bolts were rounded off and it needed new ones. Was this done at Toyota referral? They passed word to KIA and bolts were ordered, but I get this suspicion. KIA calls that bolts are in. The morning I go to KIA, I check thoroughly and can not find any damaged bolts or nuts. I find at KIA these bolts are the two each side that connect the strut to the steering knuckle. And they tell me it needs to go back to Rutland. They tell me they don't have time, maybe tomorrow because it will take three hours. Say What? They have to unmount struts and open the holes. Now I got the whole picture. They are going to do an unauthorized fix to this new vehicle, the same sort of thing that got Ford into a bunch of lawsuits. This I will not allow. Don't need the trouble of bad accident or sitting in lawyers offices and courts endlessly. True that some struts have an elongated hole for adjustment, but those manufactured that way have a knurled surface at that point to give better bite at metal to metal contact and may use special bolts and nuts that also have knurled surface at points of contact. Certainly not a smooth surface on strut and bolts point of contact.
And such an adjustment only works for camber, not caster. Also the rear does not use struts but a four link suspension with separate coil spring and a shock absorber so I can only guess what butchering they may intend to fix those issues.
Contacted KIA customer service. Went into detail and asked for escalation of engineering and told they could not do that.
Called main part of dealership and talked to manager. He promised to get back with me before end of day. It is 6:06 PM.
In the meantime, I've been busy on the web and email contacting GA consumer affairs relating to Lemon Law. According to them I meet the criteria and by law they should have been giving me copies of everything to date, even under warranty or free service. I've requested copies. Next will be certified mail requesting such and it looks like I need to make time to fill out form notifying them it is their last chance. If not fixed in 7 days I file for buy back or replacement of vehicle. And very happy to learn GA law takes care of you. Not killed by depreciation and such. Settlement is price paid including taxes, etc. divided by 100K miles to determine my cost per mile. Multiply by miles driven and that is it. That should be about $.20 per mile and hopefully settled before 6K miles.
Consumer reports thought highly of them. Wildly varying reviews elsewhere many due to performance on snow. Tire is classified as a "performance all season" with a V speed rating. Tread wear rating on the 50 series isn't that great - 360. Checking with local shops I was quoted anywhere from $700 - $800 for replacement 225/50/17 tires. I could buy two sets of the Falkens for the quoted price from local shops.
The Michelins were down to 5/32" before I took them on a 5000 mile trip. The Michelins would have lasted longer but one got badly worn from a tire that was badly out of alignment. I didn't notice anything in the driveability until I started hearing the tire thumping from the cupping that had occurred. I was rotating tires at 5,000 intervals.
We need the ability to have:
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- member profile info available in plain view (in a left column) with each posting, particular the members location and what they drive, as this is all relative to the conversation.
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I got my rims and tires from Canadian Tire, not the dealer. When we bought the Rondo on Aug 16 last year, we bargained for a set of steel rims with mounted and studded winter tires. Around here, we get lots of snow and I knew the all-season Michelins would be no good, and the original 17 inch rims are just to pretty to destroy with road salt.
I went on TheTireRack.com website, sized 15 inch rims and tires to match the circumference of the original set. So I bought 205/65R/15 Goodyear winter tires, which matched the circumference of the original 225/50R/17 Michelins. The rims are standard rims available at Canadian Tire which matched the lug spacing of the Rondo rims (sorry, don't recall what the spacing is, I just measured it with a ruler). No shims were necesssary, as they were a direct fit. And 15 inch is the smallest you can go, to leave space for the brake discs.
If you are not in Canada,I bet that your local auto parts store will have standard rims that will fit the Rondo. Just measure the lug spacing and ensure that the rim will give clearance over the discs.
We used our setup from November through April and had not one issue. And with the snow we got last winter, thank goodness the tires were studded.
Overall, the Rondo is a wonderful family vehicle, and other than a touchy Check Engine Light early on (just gotta turn the gas cap 3 clicks), the Rondo was never needed any service other than maintenance. Easily the most reliable vehicle we have owned.
I informed my KIA dealer about the size of winter tires/rims that I wanted as part of the deal, and he had no issue with swapping the 225/50/17 all-seasons for studded 205/65/15 winter tires.
Same circumference, no problem for the electronic nannies (ABS, EBD, traction control, etc).
But I see something that alarms me far worse. You are cruising along and hit a very slippery stretch, something like black ice or road that is not properly draining and you are hydroplaning. The first rule of safety is to let off the accelerator hoping the spinning wheels without power to them get a chance to bite. And above all else, do not brake or it could through you into a spin (this is assuming you have room and are not about to hit something). Hopefully you will regain enough control to steer clear of problem. To this point, idiot engineers forgot to put over-run clutch in transmission. This allows the free wheeling found in many vehicles and is easily shown if your tachometer drops back to idle quickly when you let off accelerator. In effect this vehicle uses engine braking which will make your slippery situation worse. If you had manual transmission which is direct drive you'd disengage the clutch until back on firm footing. And there are other vehicles that have not used over-run in the final drive, but it is a stupid idea for most vehicles. Times you might not want over-run would be in a vehicle where you are constantly hauling heavy loads and the brakes alone are not sufficient to do the job. This Rhondo hardly classifies as a tractor-trailer.
I just checked on my winter tires/rims (I have them stored, so it took me a bit of time to get to them, sorry) - the tires are Goodyear Nordic, size 205/65R15. The rims are Canadian Tire - on the side of the rim that goes towards the car (the deep side), there are these numbers - 15 x 6.0, then 3573 and V3, then 13 and 9 and 5 and 1. The last 4 numbers look something like this: 13 9 5 1
On the side of the rim that faces out, between two of the lug holes, is the number 21 and between that and the next lug hole is the number 5435.
I measured the distance from the centre of one lug hole to the centre of the next, and got 65 mm. They have 5 lug holes, of course.
Hope that helps!
Our set was installed in Nov 07 and taken off in late April 08. With these studded tires, winter was not a problem, whether it was deep snow or ice. Of course, the traction control system cut in occasionally, but I do have to say that the Rondo got through the winter almost as well as our old Legacy wagon, which was AWD. The studded tires are noisy though, and the noise is amplified in the Rondo's spacious interior. But you get used to it. Ride, surprisingly, was a bit better than with the standard all-seasons, but maybe that was due to the higher side profile (65 series vs 50 series). Handling did not seem to be affected, but then again I was not tossing the Rondo around in February like I would in July!
My advice? Buy 'em!
E_net_rider,
Gosh, you do have a tendency to make a mountain out of a molehill, don't you! Yes, the traction control kills power to the wheels with excessive wheelspin. But it does not intervene with minimal wheelspin.
The only time when our traction control cut in was when we were pulling away from an intersection and gave the car a bit too much gas for conditions. In other words, OUR fault. When the power is cut to the drive wheel, yes it slows the car (it's supposed to) but I have found that a quick lift off the gas pedal resets the traction control and we continue on our way. If you keep your foot on the gas, then the traction control will slow you to almost a stop - that`s because the wheels are still trying to spin on the slippery surface. And that`s the fault of the driver.
If you are starting off on a slippery spot, and the traction control kicks in, then you are using too much gas for the conditions. Without a traction control system, you'd still spin your tires. At least when traction control intervenes, it extends the life of your tires and drivetrain a bit.
Of course, traction control would intervene a lot for someone who has foolishly left their no-season (sorry, all-season) tires on. The tire compound gets hard as rocks, so naturally there would be little traction. But for those of us who have the sense to install winter tires (studded or not), the traction control will intervene less and also be less obtrusive when it does kick in.
You might say that some people cannot afford winter tires. I didn't pay for mine at all - I bargained the price of them into the deal for the car (once I had a price agreed upon, I demanded the tires/rims and got them). However, if you have a Rondo now and could not or did not do the same as I did, then you must ante up the cash somehow to get proper winter footwear for the car. That goes for any vehicle, Kia or Chev or Honda or whatever. It's a matter of safety. Where my family is concerned, I'll put the cost on VISA if I have to. Money well spent, I say. People who feel that no-seaon (there I go again, sorry it's officially all-season) tires work well in the winter are flirting with disaster every time they pull out of the driveway. Now I know that residents of BC, for example, hardly need to worry about winter traction for most of the winter, but that's an exception to the rule.
Anyway, I got off on a bit of a tangent there.
Your second paragraph is what I felt I had to respond to. You would have to either try very hard to spin a Rondo, or else the driver is a complete idiot and has been asleep at the wheel. It comes standard with electronic brake force distribution, ABS and stability control, nannies which are fully intended to keep you pointed where you want to go. Having used the Rondo for a full year now ( as of today, actually - Happy Birthday to our Rondo!), I can say that I have never, not once, felt as if the Rondo was out of control, and I can tell you right now that we experienced one heck of a winter here in Central Newfoundland in 2007-2008. And when I was first getting used to the new car in the snows of November and December, I TRIED to get it out of control so that I would know how it reacts. The Rondo simply refused to stray! I had to push it to ridiculous limits (on a big empty parking lot, of course!) before the electronics could not defeat the forces of physics anymore. I had to seriously TRY to beat the electronics in order to do it. In everyday driving, the Rondo is so stable in poor conditions that it was a match for our old Legacy AWD wagon, which also had studded tires.
You know, when you try to talk about something from the comfort of your living room armchair (``from what I`ve read...``), you are bound to lead a discourse on something you know nothing about. I believe from past threads that you have said you own a Rondo (maybe I am wrong on that) so why don`t you post about your actual experiences, rather than from conjecture!
Sorry to rant, I do value your opinions since in the past you have made some good points. Just not this time.
http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/category_landing.jsp (if that works)
sorry bgw but I guess I'm one with the "no-season" tire all year users. I'm located in central eastern Ontario and this last winter (record snow falls) and my first winter with my new Rondo. I have to say in my area and our conditions, the Rondo handled great with the combination of ABS and TC (which takes a bit of getting used to when you've never had those features before) and also making quite a bit of use of the Steptronic feature (have owned many manual trans vehicles before and "gearing" is a big help) I never felt I was in a dangerous position and the vehicle was well controlled, certainly much better than my previous vehicle.
I'm not disagreeing that winter tires would certainly be better, but I also wanted to find out how well in performed in its "stock" form and also having read quite a bit of negative comments on the stock Hankook tires. Not sure at this point what to do for next winter. Whether you need them or not, depends obviously on your location, if I was living in Newfoundland I wouldn't hesitate. All the cars I've owned, I've never owned winter tires. Studded winter tires are not allowed here.
2008 Rondo EX, 2.4L
Ontario, Canada
I guess I am biased, since I have used winter tires on just about all my vehicles over the last 24 years. On one of my recent cars, I left the all-seasons on for the winter and would never do it again - the car was a hockey puck - it went mostly where I wanted, most of the time, but not always.
My Rondo has the 17" Michelins, which are way too sporty in tread design to be safe in the winter. I believe the Hankooks are a better all-season design.
Studded tires are not allowed in ON? I did not know that. Interesting!
Here in NL, they are recommended. Sure are noisy though.
(BTW, love all your posts conwelpic)
I have a 2008 Kia Rondo with 16 inch rims. I was told by the dealer that you cannot get 16 inch direct fit steel rims for the Rondo. The dealer suggested that I purchase 15 inch rims, however, I already had 16 inch winter tires so he told me that he could get after market alloys for $175 each. Yikes!! I had read that the Mazda 626 was the same direct fit as the Kia Rondo. I don't like universal steel rims because a lot of the time you have balancing problems as the rims don't fit well on the hubs.
I went to the local BIGO TIRE store. I've dealt with them for 25 years. Kerry phoned a supplier (wheels only) in Ontario and the supplier confirmed that the Mazda 626 and some Hyundia wheels will be a direct fit for my vehicle. The price was $49 a wheel plus shipping. Needless to say I purchased 4.
BGW I'm glad you responded to the post regarding spinning etc. Rondo has electronic stability control, all models have it, so the complaint has no validity.
KIA dealers, from my limited experience with them and their cousins Hyundai dealers, are not filled with the most knowledgeable service people.
If the 15" rims clear the disc and caliper and there is no rub then it looks good to me.
Personally I think the fad of 17", 18", and beyond tires is just silly. The tires cost more, there is far less variety in these sizes, they weigh more, they wear components more, they reduce suspension compliance because the upstream parts have more weight to deal with, and there is no upside unless you sell the expensive tires.
So I'd say you made a smart move in getting the 15" wheels with 205.65.15 tires.
My d-i-l has a Rondo, and as far as we know it's been a trooper. It developed a little ATF leak, which may have been caused by some hamhanded oil change artist, not sure. Other than that, no problems, just works every day.
From what I have read in varying auto magazines, it is not advisable to alter the overall diameter of your tires, as this will affect the electronics, especially the speedometer, and likely the ABS, EBD, etc. These have been designed with a certain size in mind, and altering that size will affect the programming.
However, to be sure, I would suggest that you contact The Tire Rack (google Tire Rack) and ask them - they are the experts and will know if the inch is a factor or not.
Let us know what they tell you.
According to their website 'For cars and vans, staying within a 3% diameter change is desirable. Pick-ups and sport utility vehicles (SUVs) are usually engineered to handle up to a 15% oversize tire.'
here is a link to the article
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=31&
my winters from the venture will work. yipee
we ar elooking into purchasing a Kia Rondo with 16 inch rims and I have seen that you have bought wheels to Mazda 626, is this correct? Where they alloy or still rims?
I live in Pittsburgh and we are thinking to buy winter tires for handling the snow and having spare wheels will make it easier. I have never done this so I am wondering if you need to recalibrate the wheels once you put the winter on and then when the spring comes the all-weather tires on again.
Thank you in advance for your advice.
I have not yet had to deal with ice or snow, only standing water once, but it is very common in this area. I just have not been driving the vehicle a lot. It is my wife's.
I'm not saying this traction system is worse than none, rather there would be better ways. When traction is lost, without free-wheeling the tires are forced to turn at the rate of the entire drive train until engine RPM drops below the point the torque converter has any engagement and then still you have the mass of all that spinning in the tranny. With an overrun clutch, most of that would be disengaged the moment your power was cut, either manually or electronically. Maybe one day they will incorporate into the computer system an auto speed that turns the wheel at the exact same speed as the vehicle is sliding, even with angle correction for rotation. The tire has to be moving at the exact same rate as the vehicle or else you are spinning.
You mention electronic brake force distribution, ABS, and stability control. Do you know exactly how they function and are interleaved? Perhaps I got bad info, but it was from a reputable site. To know for sure we would probably have to use a site where all the test codes and troubleshooting diagrams are available. I would really like to know.
As to handling issues tied to alignment and torque steer, sadly I say we are still dealing with that. Family health issues tied us at the critical time for lemon law. Now we are left at the mercy of the dealer, KIA, & warranty. My wife gets more aggravated as time goes on and she has made a couple of efforts to get them to fix. I suspect I will get dragged into picture again, and when I do I will not be nice.
I do have a little extra time because it became time to say goodbye to the Aurora. New car with hopes it is great. But it will never measure up to ride, quiet, handling, Bose sound, roominess, power, and other features. Just better mileage.
If you can not get any satisfaction from dealer or KIA, then consider BBB, and file a complaint with NHTSA as a safety issue.
however, according to the owner's manual, you can push and hold the shiftronic shifter forward to make the transmission start in 2nd gear (to reduce the chance of wheel spinning on slippery road), perhaps you can give that a try.
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I have a 2007 Rondo EX V6. We installed 4 studded winter tires and, I have to say, the Rondo is almost as surefooted in wintry driving (snow or ice) as our former car, a Subaru Legacy AWD (also with winter tires).
If you are finding your Rondo to be sliding alot, you need to check your tires. Are they all-seasons? They harden below about 7 degrees Celcius and lose traction. The Michelins which came on our Rondo felt slippery too in November, on dry pavement, just before we installed our studded winter tires.
I am not saying you need to stud your tires, but if you do not have winter tires on, that is most certainly the problem.
Our 07 EX V6 has never had pulling to the right (or left) problems like e_net_rider has described in the past. I have not known any of my friends' Rondos to have this problem either (one has an 08 EX 4 cyl, another has an identical 07 to ours). I think e_net_rider's statement "you can not fully align" is incorrect. I can't image a manufacturer in this day and age engineering a vehicle (that is marketed worldwide) without camber and caster adjustments. I am not saying he is wrong (he may very well be right) but I find it highly unlikely. I know he has had problems with his Rondo's alignment - I wonder if it is more a matter of poor service at his dealer?
Anyway,back to Jessicae's situation. I have found that the Rondo's traction control intervenes a little too readily. Of course, it is only trying to counter a right foot that is too heavy for conditions, but sometimes a little spinning is necessary. If you find yourself in a situation when the traction control cuts power and you don't feel it needs to (like when taking off at an intersection and turning), all you have to do is release your foot from the gas pedal for a second - just a second - this resets the traction control and gives you back control of the gas. If you don't release your foot but instead keep your foot on the gas, the traction control will cause you to lose speed, which is something you don't want in an intersection.
Overall, we are mighty pleased with our Rondo. Almost 2 and a half years now and only once have we needed to visit the dealer for warranty work. My Honda Civic needed 13 visits in the first six months...
The reason I brought up alignment is optimum traction will occur with the proper contact patch. That is the area of rubber on the tire that contacts the road. This is effected by alignment, but also steering geometry especially when cornering. Part of the reason more caution is needed when cornering and this is figured for dry, not slippery surfaces such as ice and snow. But every little bit can help, especially winter tires if needed.
Definitely hard to imagine that there are not camber or caster adjustments on the 07. That is why I asked if they added them and that maybe it could be retrofittted.
One possible solution is eccentric bolts for the front, but I don't know that would work for the rear. I know the butcher job they tried to trick me into would not have worked on the rear because it involved wallowing out the strut mount holes on the front. There have been numberous law suits involving those get-by methods of fixing the problem, so I want their engineer approved fix.
Also would be the issure of unequal length drive shfts which is noted by GM as being part of the reason for torque steer. The first adaption to cure that used in some Mazda was an adapter plate bolted to the trans-engine assembly near the engine front (or right side). The right side shaft then was straight out the tranny, through the adapter with bearing, and the inner joint was then placed in the shaft at a point of equal distance as the left side. It would be easy to do this as a retrofit if KIA chose to.
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They were going to sluff me off to a different shop where they would enlarge the holes in the struts allowing some tilt of the hub. This would only correct camber, but the same procedure will not work on the rear. Also class actions because some slipped from setting, some broke, causing accidents.
He may want new struts, aftermarket, because some of those came with a slot for adjusting and the surface was knurled so the setting was less likely to slip.
I had recently heard what shop KIA was using to fix this factory issue. I called and they told me of several options with aftermarket parts. One of them is an eccentric bolt used on the strut, but then again no caster adjustment.
When I get a bit caught up, I'm demanding they bring the district rep in. I want a factory engineered fix so they can't claim I altered vehicle and deny any warranty work.
When I find that time I also will file complaint with NHTSA. I'm tired of the way they deal with it and have already asked for that district rep twice. It will be a safety issue.
I had an 84 Mercury that only had front toe adjustment. Some aftermarket parts came out that allowed changing rear toe via eccentric bushings. NAPA carried a plate that mounted at the strut tower. You had to open up the original strut mounting holes, then you could move the strut in and out for camber, fore and aft for caster. These were added to 86 production vehicles.
I have big issue with handling on 09 Malibu since new. It has been on rack 4 times, 3 dealer. They did adjust the first time but all say it is in spec now. Although in spec, R/F has lots more caster than L/F. The independant shop told me there is no caster adjustment on vehicle. The fix is to loosen four big bolts with rubber isolators and shift the entire cradle. (cradle is assembly that engine and tranny mount to. also the lower suspension arms connect to it.)
In looking for anything, maybe something bent, I could see the front two mounts from under hood. The big rubber doughnut isolators looked somewhat distorted and like the RS was farther ahead than LS. With those doughnuts not centered, you will get different response with forces applied from different angles because of the varying amount of rubber around the mounting hole. And the RS will react differently than the LS with the same force applied. Any wonder why it handles like a wreck on anything but glass smooth highway?
Even though they claim it is aligned, it will drift across a mild crown and flat road, it just goes left.
I too have heard the excuse that it might have been improperly tied down in transport. I was told by GM that they have special hook points on the vehicle and truck so that can't happen.
I believe it to be a factory problem. Every Ford product I've had and seen with those factory strut adjustment plates never needed aligning. I could tell by the paint around them. To me that indicates they aligned it properly during assembly. No adjustment, they just let it slide off the line, right or wrong.
How many miles?
Dealer should be covering everything including tire problems to at least 10K or more.
Is lemon law still applicable?
Badly worn tires can be evidence of other problems such as bad alignment.
A poorly aligned vehicle can cause handling problems and that is a safety issue. You would need to specify the handling problems that make it unsafe. Having ESC does not make it safe, just safer. You should not be having handling problems that force you to rely on ESC. ESC is not a cure all but an emergency aid if by accident you get in condition activating it. While trying to regain control it will not stop someone from hitting you during that loss of control.
Insist upon seeing the KIA rep and write letters if you have to. I always got excuses as well.
I heard through the grapevine that my dealer was sending a lot of new vehicles to this one particular place for modification because they were un-alignable. I talked to the shop briefly and learned they were special ordering aftermarket parts to do the job. These would be KIA unauthorized modifications. They did not have any parts available to fix the right rear camber issue.
I just have not had time to deal with this issue as I should. I just spent 13 months dealing with a safety issue on my new Malibu. Goodbye Malibu. Now I'm dealing with a new Lacrosse and it is not without its own laundry list of issues. It even came from the factory with a scratch in the sheet metal that occured before it got paint.