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2009 Acura TSX
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Comments
Legacy turbo anyone? How about a well-outfitted Passat for the same price, or a very swish Jetta GLI for LESS money? Or a Volvo with the turbo? Or go another $2000 for a base model C300 or IS300 and get RWD?
All would make very compelling alternatives to the TSX, and by comparison would make the TSX powertrain seem to be on the weakish side.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
As it is I cheer them for raising fuel economy (although it didn't go up much) at the expense of power, but I think the price is too high now. When this car debuted under $27K, I thought it was just about at the limit of its potential price range. Since then the price has crept up and up without any substantial improvements, and the redo seems like more of the same. Very mild.
I would rather see an 8/10-scale TSX in the lineup, with the engine it has now and 8/10 the weight, starting at around $25K without NAV. Let the TL take over the mid-sedan slot in the Acura lineup.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
and with the old Camry lights in back
on trunk area yet of course not the same car.
I like the interrior and longer size as well.
I like the color selection better, saw it at a dealership.
One of the new colors is a deep burgandy color. Funny I always liked the green
TSX with Ivory leather but hardly saw them on the roads.
Always see the gray, red, sliver or white the most.
I guess I'll wait another year.
You are right, they could apply a little Honda magic to this thing and pull at LEAST the 240 hp the S2000 has. That would be fun. I am all for increasing fuel economy, but since it is all but certain that there will be a diesel-powered TSX within a year or two, that could be the high-FE model, leaving the NA gas to be something a bit more special.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
And at the other end of the spectrum, they are being undercut in price (in some cases significantly) by FWD and AWD models like the VWs, Saabs, Volvos, and you-name-it, which also have the same fuel economy and more power.
I hope one day Honda puts some new lightweight, high-revving cars in the Acura lineup. And by that I mean models BESIDES the new NSX!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Let's say that Acura did come out with a higher horsepower higher torque TSX and charged you 5K more for it then you would be crying about how Acura can justify their price. They don't have to. They Already have. Lets take a look at this. The Audi A4 2.0T cost's more with less equipment and is is slug off the line. (you think Acura's car is bad try this one.). The Lexus IS 250 cost's more with less equipment is a 6 cylinder that the 4 cylinder TSX can keep up with. :confuse: The BMW is so over priced that you could have a TL-S for less than their car and have real leather!!!! So tell me how Acura is not doing the right thing. They give you a car that competes in this segment very well and at a lower price point. Now for those who say Volvo and VW are doing much better, if you like a Ford then yes go get a Volvo and enjoy the drastic drop in resale after you get it because they are not selling at the price they wan't so they put the incentives on them to move them out. VW has had so many mechanical probs with their cars that I would not touch one if I was paid to drive it and they are small and the ride is rough. I think Acura has done a great job and on April 24th you can go find out for yourself as this is the first of a long line of new cars to come from Acura. Acura has finally seen the direction they need to take and are going to become the top player in the luxury market within the next five to seven years I predict. If you only kmew what was coming.
No I wouldn't, it's called the TL, a fairly popular model as far as I know! :-)
Used to be, Honda/Acura was about the drive, now it seems to be about the gadgets and the high resale.
Who wanted a bigger TSX? Isn't there already a TL in the lineup?
And I root for Acura as much as anyone and more than many, but this?...
"Acura has finally seen the direction they need to take and are going to become the top player in the luxury market within the next five to seven years"
...has no chance of happening.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I think Nissan/Infiniti have the right strategy, which is largely why Infiniti is making inroads against the German high end brands, while Acura isn't.
The TL is arguably the best (lower end) luxury FWD car on the market, but it could be THE best if it were RWD, in my opinion, by combining 3-Series driving dynamics and Acura reliability.
Insofar as the '09 TSX is concerned, I agree with nippononly. I'd rather have a Civic EX-L, and save the difference.
No kidding! In fact a Civic SI-L, if it were available with the Acura badge, would be the best thing Acura could do for the TSX right now. Goose the interior a little, give it NAV and a super-duper stereo system and all these gadgets people apparently crave, and price it at $27K. It would be a much better addition to the lineup than the '09 TSX is at $29K, and it wouldn't crowd the TL either.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I agree with you, for the reasons you mention. I mentioned the EX-L Acura quivalent because it suits my particular needs better than the SI-L, but I believe the SI badged car would be a better fit for Acura, strategically. The major thing that would be lacking, that the TSX has, is the double wishbone suspension. It would be nice if that could be incorporated in the Acura version of the model we propose, since it would positively differentiate the Acura from the Honda. I sense, though, that it would be too difficult and expensive to modify the Civic to incorporate this feature.
Oh well, since I don't crave the presitge of the Acura name, I could be perfectly happy with a Civic. Incidentally, one of our cars is a '99 TL, which has been a delight to own. My wife and I felt it was worth the extra cost over the Accord EX-L, but that may not apply today.
Hopefully the new Tl will have HD, BMW has it,
Old Mike
Oh, I think it most certainly does. The new Accord is a big lumbering beast. The TL is not my favorite car in the world, but it is limber and sporty compared to the new Accord V-6, which is a large car indeed.
The Civic SI, of course, is for all intents and purposes a 4-door version of the last RSX-S we got (I forget - did the RSX have rear struts or 'bones?). For them to put it in the lineup today as the new TSX would be to admit that their drive "upmarket" didn't work out as planned, but the '09 TSX is a very weak alternative, and I think at $29K it will continue the sales slide for that model.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
It'll be interesting to learn about the '09 TL, even though it'll be larger than I'd like it to be. I imagine it'll have cylinder deactivation, but the '08 Accord V6 with that feature has gotten mixed reviews.
I've read that the '09 TL will be offered with FWD and SH-AWD, but it's unclear to me whether the SH-AWD will be an option, or be part of an "S" version. I also don't know whether the TL will have a more powerful version of the Accord 3.5 V6, or the 3.7 V6 of the RL. Maybe the FWD TL will have the 3.5, while the 3.7 comes with the SH-AWD. Have you heard or read anything about these possibilities?
I'm not sure that I agree that it will probably have cylinder deactivation. Even the 6-4-3 that Honda is using now doesn't provide a huge gas savings, and "luxury car" buyers are supposed to care less about those costs anyway, right? Also, it's possible that the TL is also slated for eventual use of the new Honda diesel 6-cylinder, which could be the fuel-saver option in future for that model.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Just because they call it a $30K car doesn't MAKE IT a $30K car. If Acura wants to start its lineup at $30K, then they need to design some models that earn that price, and are NOT based heavily on their FWD Hondas.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
If your prediction proves to be correct, nippononly, it'll be interesting to see what Acura does to reverse the sales decline for the remainder of this generation TSX. Any guesses, beyond the addition of the diesel option next year?
So Honda is going to need to come in with those other engines much more quickly than they expected to. Right now, the stand-out weakness of the '09 TSX is its engine. After that comes its heavy frontward weight bias caused by its wrong-wheel-drive design, and its overall heavyish weight. It's also in an awkward part of the spectrum to be in right now: under $30K, near-lux. The folks with the big money don't care about gas prices, etc, and will go on buying their $40K BMWs but the ones in this price range are downsizing, downpricing, and seeking better fuel economy.
If they had gone a different direction with the new TSX and let TL do the job of their midsize model, they would have had a shot at more sales, I think. Of all the luxury and near-lux brands, Acura's smallest sedan is the largest and least powerful, not usually a good combination (the exception is Volvo, with the base S40, but that is also a much cheaper car - compare the S60 to get a same-priced car, and now you have a turbo engine with more power and much more torque than TSX, available over a huge range of rpm due to the nature of the turbo)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I did have some trouble finding a buyer for the Accord in 1990. In Dec 2004, I donated the Integra with 240,000 miles on it. Both were great cars to drive. Now I have an 2005 Accord 5-speed auto.
I am looking to buy 2009 TSX in the fall. If I am going to sell the car after 4 to 5 years, will there be a problem selling 6-speed manual?
Interesting question, since I think less than 10 percent of American cars are made these days with a manual transmission.
But, for what it's worth, I sold my 2000 Accord coupe 5-speed manual recently with very little effort. I did it the old-fashioned way -- no high-tech eBay or Craig's List listings to all the world with photos, just a three-line classified ad in my local newspaper. Had just one person call, and he bought it at basically my asking price. Couldn't have been simpler.
I think the point is that the manual transmission enthusiasts seek each other out, they watch for good cars like my Accord, and are always around to buy, albeit in small numbers. But, you only need one buyer, right?
As a specialty car, I guess, there will be a market for 6-speed manual TSX. Selling a family car with manual transmission could be a problem, as most people don't know how to drive stick shift.
When TSX hits showrooms, I would like to see whether there is a significant demand for 6-speed manual, compared to 5-speed automatic.
Quick comments: overall, I like the body more than I had from pics. However, the grill just doesn't work for me. The interior looks nice, though I don't like the big knob contraption they have for controlling everything.
Nice, but not compelling enough for me - still leaning towards picking up an '08 TSX, since they're getting so cheap!
Long-term, Acura needs to be looking at their sedan lineup and seeking more differentiation. They've got 3 models of very similar size, none of which is a winner at the track when run against other models of similar price.
They could just drop the RL the way Infiniti seems to have finally sealed the deal on the Q45. It could be replaced with something more sexy, perhaps a sport coupe or roadster for folks who don't have the $100 grand it is going to cost to buy the new NSX.
Then they could take the TL somewhat upmarket, leaving the TSX to cover the early $30Ks, and in that case it is going to need a WAY more compelling powertrain and performance specs.
And if they did all that, I would still be longing for the days when Acura sold a small, nimble car with genuinely sporty handling and road feel and decent speed. Maybe they could introduce something new for the $25-30K bracket the way every other manufacturer has.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
For the features you get in this car, it's a pretty sweet deal for the price. Plus, people buying cars in this segment aren't usually the richy rich people that can afford whatever they want. It actually seems that most people I know of driving entry-level luxury sedans can't even afford them in the first place, but feel they need that luxury status...but I digress. For ~$33K, this car gives you tons of features that you need to pay around $40K for with the competition - navigation, rear view camera, memory seats, bluetooth, sat radio, Xenon headlights, 17" wheels, sunroof, leather, nice stereo, homelink...etc. Go ahead and price out a 328i, IS250, A4 2.0T or C300 with the major options of the TSX, and you can't get close in price. Plus, reliability for Acura is ahead of all of the competition.
I just thought this car deserved a different perspective. I would have bought a current generation TSX in a second but went with an Accord because I wanted a slightly bigger car with more room. Regardless, I still think the TSX (current and new) is one of the best deals on the upscale market for getting tons of features and a decent engine at a terrific price.
As far as a cheaper Acura than the TSX goes, I don't see Honda moving back in that direction, especially since they just moved away from that direction by getting rid of the RSX. I think they count on the civic-si as their budget performance product, which also gives you plenty of features at a good price, and wouldn't want to step on their own toes by making a smaller Acura again.
Anyway, point well taken! If I was buying now and had to choose between the two, though, my personal decision would be the new TSX over the new Accord because I think the new Accord is just flat out ugly and too big. Many others will think otherwise and choose the Accord over the TSX.
$32,700 incl. destination.
'08 TL anyone? :sick:
In the meantime, the new TSX has also grown, especially in width, so the size differential between the TSX and Accord remains approximately the same.
Your point that comparisons between near luxury and less prestigious brands aren't exclusive to Acura and Honda makes perfect sense. I'm sure it's something that many shoppers wrestle with. However, Nissan/Infiniti deflated the need for such comparisons by converting the entire Infiniti brand to rear wheel drive. I think this, or the Toyota/Lexus model, is the example that Acura should follow. With the exception of the Camry based ES, Lexus also differentiated its Lexus luxury division from its mainstream Toyota brand. Acura could leave the TSX as its only front wheel drive model.
As for the TSX itself, I actually almost bought this car back in 2004 for $26K, and in 2004, for $26K, the TSX was a competitive car. In 2008, at $29K and with the same powertrain, it is falling behind, that's all I'm saying.
The 2010 diesel will boost sales though, I have no doubt. And I bet that when the 2010 cars finally get here, that other optional engine will be the RDX turbo, not a 6-cylinder. Any takers?!... :-P
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Of course, today you could also cross shop a Pontiac G-8 V6 against the TSX, and while the G-8 is even larger than the TSX, and its reliability might not be up to Acura standards, it may be a better near luxury value.
Hosts, since the 09 TSX is officially out this should be moved from future vehicles to the TSX threads.
Yeah, but that's not the way it works with cars, particularly "all new" models introduced during a recession. Take any model of car and track its base price backwards in time. They don't generally rise at the rate of inflation.
Example: VW Passat turbo (base engine). List in 2002 was $23,375. Base price today for the '08 is $23,990 according to Edmunds.
Example: 2002 Acura TL, list $29,360. The 2008 Acura TL, a car that I think we can all agree was COMPLETELY remade and enormously improved for MY 2004, lists at $33,725, a barely 2% increase per year.
Example: BMW 3-series. In 2002 the base model was the 325i, listing at $32,465. The 2008 base model is the 328i, listing at $32,400. Makes the 328i look like a bargain today, huh?!
My point is, car prices do not rise at the same rate as inflation.
And yes, as you stated, the TSX has to "be weighed against the progress that competing models - the IBM 325, Lexus IS, Volvo S60, Audi A-4, Saab 9-2 2.0 turbo - have made."
It is in this area that I find it coming up short. I have now driven it (I am on my dealer's listserve as I used to own an Acura, so I was invited to come drive it now that dealers have it in stock) and find it to be not notably improved from the '04 I drove before, in terms of driving dynamics and performance. Yes, there is more techno wizardry in the cockpit, but in the end those are just gizmos. I like to drive for driving's sake.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
If Acura is going to retain one FWD model, shouldn't that be the TSX, rather than the TL? The tradeoffs favoring FWD tend to be greatest in smaller, four cylinder cars than larger sixes, just as the the greatest relative advantages of RWD are in high torque V8s, V10s, and V12 applications.
nippononly: "...the TSX has to "be weighed against the progress that competing models - the IBM 325..."
You meant BMW, of course.
"... there is more techno wizardry in the cockpit, but in the end those are just gizmos. I like to drive for driving's sake."
I agree 100%. Telematics generally doesn't excite me much, although I appreciate certain features, such as traction control, anti-lock brakes, and electronic stability control. These are wonderful features. I can't warm up to features such as lane departure alerts or controls, or automatic parking. Beeps, vibrations and other alerts would be especially annoying to me. I may exclude certain luxury models from consideration in the future, because they tend to be crammed with telematic features that have a negative value for me.
p.s. I'm ending all my posts with "shades" in honor of the sunniest stretch of weather we've had here I think ever. :shades: