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Mitsubishi Outlander vs. Subaru Forester

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Comments

  • imaginaryimaginary Member Posts: 62
    edited February 2010
    Maybe you can't but I certainly can see an "Acura" buyer "stepping down to a Forester" if her/his Acura couldn't fulfill the AWD needs of the driver. Granted the Subaru Forester isn't luxurious on any scale, a person who can afford to buy an Acura can easily afford to buy a Tribeca if they want that bigger size and luxury SUV feel.

    Yes, I'm sure we're all aware the MDX is a luxury mid-size SUV while the Forester is a CUV. But I mentioned the MDX instead of the RDX because I will not settle for the RDX's ground clearance. Granted the Forester is smaller than both the MDX and RDX, that shouldn't stop people from comparing AWD systems.

    If someone is in the market for a AWD system that actually works and isn't just a marketing technique, I hope they would choose utility over having a luxury car that goes no where fast.

    I would certainly step down from an Acura MDX if the SH-AWD just wasn't cutting it while the Subaru Forester, a non-luxury CUV, was cutting it.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Hey, this is the car buying world. People can cross shop an Escalade with a Mini Cooper. IMO there are very few people who would move to Forester because SHAWD didn't cut the mustard. I'm talking about serious shoppers not browsers. The RDX is a different animal, more of a dumbed down version of the MDX.

    I think it's the rare bird who actually cross-shops AWD systems. For most people not in extreme snow climates these differences in AWD are all theoretical. Even the worst of AWD systems can get a driver from point a to b in a decent amount of snow. The Forester XT as the RDX has a practical advantage in high altitudes, but that is not the AWD system advantage.

    As we know people buy cars for their reasons, not our generic musings about why we think the "general populace" buys cars. But I still can't see the serious MDX shopper stepping down to a non-luxury model.
  • imaginaryimaginary Member Posts: 62
    "IMO there are very few people who would move to Forester because SHAWD didn't cut the mustard... I think it's the rare bird who actually cross-shops AWD systems... But I still can't see the serious MDX shopper stepping down to a non-luxury model."

    Oh, so you do see it then? You go back and forth between not being able to see it and then saying you do see it. Choose please! Lol :) :P You either see one or the other. (Or some people even choose to not believe it after they see it ;) ) Regardless, it's clear that the lens I see this world with is different from yours.

    Now if only Edmunds or some other automotive site would setup a standardized AWD test to give shoppers a better insight. :lemon:
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    edited February 2010
    Regardless, it's clear that the lens I see this world with is different from yours.

    I can't understand your point of view. In my mind a serious rational luxury brand shopper will simply not buy a Forester/Outlander, when the mindset is I'm going to acquire a luxury brand vehicle.

    There might be other reasons(towing/shlepping/dirty jobs/pets etc) a shopper might want a Forester/Outlander over a 350, MDX etc, but in my mind one would not end up with one if the mindset is toward an upscale brand.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm sure the manufacturers could not even agree on the type of test that should be performed.

    An example is best.

    Subaru may want to do it in Colorado, since at elevation the turbo would really shine. The normally aspirated engines would be wheezing in the thin air at high altitude, but not a turbo. I'm sure Acura (RD-X) and Mazda (CX7) would also want that.

    Subaru would also want steep inclines to be able to make use of its 25/25 degree angles of approach and departure. That plus they would stage any off road scenario with big dips and moguls to highlight the wheel travel/articulation (as they did in that video you shared) and the 8.9" of ground clearance. Same with Jeep and probably Suzuki (the GV has a low range).

    If a manual transmission were tested, Subaru would also want the chance to show off the hill holder clutch. For turbos, I'm sure they'd want to include tests of acceleration and braking.

    And Mitsu? Well, per C&D the departure angle is only 18 degrees, so I bet they'd want to keep the surfaces level and smooth. To show off the AFD (active front differential) on the GT models I'm sure they'd toss in as many curves as they could. I doubt they'd want to see acceleration or braking tests, but lots of curves and slippery surfaces.

    I guess it would be up to Edmunds (or whoever) to come up with a good all-around test that would include all of these things.

    And note that even then it would be hard to pick a clear winner. It all depends on your priorities.

    What about Acura for the MDX? I like SH-AWD, but it's heavy and I seriously doubt it would navigate that off road course as well as the Forester did. It would be far more at home on a dry skidpad and carefully controlled (staged?) tests of side-to-side traction management.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited February 2010
    You'd be surprised, a lot of Subaru buyers can afford much more expensive cars but simply choose not to. In a way it's the opposite of "Bling", not flashy but rather reserved and understated.

    When Bling was in, the Hummer brand was hot and people added 22" DUB wheels. Now that the economy tanked, understated is en vogue. Hummer is all but dead, and Subaru grew the most in 2009.

    I'm not surprised at all that someone would cross-shop an MDX. A bunch trade those in, giving up the Keeping-up-with-the-Joneses attitude and shopping for something that's nice enough but will prevent your pesky brother-in-law from asking you for that loan. ;)
  • imaginaryimaginary Member Posts: 62
    The "serious rational luxury brand shopper" I'm talking about is willing to sacrifice some luxury for more utility. I should have been specific; I'm not talking about a hardcore luxury vehicle fan/buyer. I'm talking about someone who wants luxury but is not willing to sacrifice utility for luxury to an extent.

    As I said, if someone wanted what a Lexus vehicle had to offer in terms of luxury but wanted to go places a Subaru Forester or Toyota Land Cruiser could go, there would have to be a compromise somewhere if the buyer wouldn't budge on any side.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Acura, Lexus is not Hummer. GM made a huge mistake, but that's another topic.

    It's not about being able to afford a vehicle. I too could afford an MDX, but I didn't have the mindset I wanted a near luxury vehicle. I was very clear, the buyer who wants a luxury vehicle would end up buying a luxury vehicle.

    The world is a big place and people do things for their own reason. I could see a Hummer and Forester being compared, because we can. But seriously cross-shopped? Only people who don't know what they want will cross shop cars without direct competition. Let's be honest, one can cross shop a 10 year old Honda Accord with a new Harley Davidson because both vehicles have tires and tread.

    One can do anything they want and proclaim anything they want, but I believe the MDX is less of a competitor to the Forester than some would believe. (To pick on the MDX).
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I believe the MDX is less of a competitor to the Forester than some would believe.

    Agreed. I don't think many buyers would seriously cross-shop an Acura with a Subaru, much less a Forester. They're aimed at different customers.

    Bob
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Your playing with words:

    1. If you take your car to the beach you make a decision based on that (Forester favored),
    2. If you regularly haul heavy cargo you make a decision based on that (MDX favored),
    3. If you tranport 6 or 7 people regularly you make a decision based on that (MDX favored),
    4. If you drive your car at high altitudes you make a decision based on that (XT/RDX),
    5. If you haul sloppy messy cargo you make a decision based on that (etc) ,

    People who want utility will not get an EX. People where "utility" is not important and who can afford the vehicle can get an RX350, MDX or whatever.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I thought people were cross-shopping Hummers with Foresters. The Hummer buyer is flashy, the Forester buyer subdued. They're opposites, really.

    In this economy the former Hummer shopper may be looking at Tahoes while trading in a RX/X3/RD-X for a Forester is not unusual.

    I bet most MDX owners are probably trading for another new MDX, or an Odyssey (if the family grew), or a TSX or loaded Accord (if they're downsizing). Actually, if AWD really was important to them I wouldn't be surprised to see a few Sienna AWDs and Legacys or Outbacks on those shopping lists, either.
  • imaginaryimaginary Member Posts: 62
    When I was comparing the two, I wanted to see the two switch places. I wanted to see how they would do in the tests the other vehicle had accomplished. The Subaru Forester has the utility, the Acura MDX has the luxury amenities. I'd like both in one car but so far I've yet to see that come true. :) Of course there are other things I'd like to trade out and in from other competitors but that's another topic.

    As far as I'm concerned from a buyer stand point, I want a master of all, not a jack of all. But that's my opinion of the current vehicles.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Let me find some sales figures and I'll report back.

    Acura sales are down. They've gotta be trading those in for something - something else.
  • imaginaryimaginary Member Posts: 62
    edited February 2010
    And you don't understand the concept of what's between the black and white boundaries: gray.

    At least when I'm looking for something it's never just black or white. Most of the time there is gray; i.e. when I'm looking for a TV I want x, y, z but they only have Ax, By, or Cz. It's hardly playing with words when you understand the difference between wanting and requiring.

    I want a luxury car that won't be a burden in the city but can still go off-road.
    I require a luxury car that won't be a burden in the city but can still go off-road.

    One buyer can set their sights on non-luxury vehicles while the other will not even touch a non-luxury vehicle. That's the difference. It's obviously which one I was talking about when you brought up the "I can't see anyone going from an MDX to a Forester". Want and require are two different things which you seem to have missed in my previous posts. The whole point here is compromise because one car doesn't have it all.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Whether it's the economy or the staleness of the MDX it would be hard to determine. Wanting a $40K car is not the same as being able to afford a $40K car. Of course going beyond the luxury vs utility debate not being able to afford a luxury vehicle might bode will Subaru and Mitsubishi. Then again buyers might be going after pre-owned certified MDXs.
  • imaginaryimaginary Member Posts: 62
    All of that in mind, it'd still help buyers figure out which vehicle can and can't do what the buyer wants.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Did you even read my previous post?

    BTW the Lexus GX is an off-roader from what I understand. Someone who can afford the vehicle, needs to haul stuff, wants to go to the beach, doesn't have to step down to a Forester, they can step up to a GX.

    As I said, you shop and buy your cars for your reasons.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Entry-Level CUV
    1. GLK - 1,803
    2. Q5 - 1,050
    3. RDX - 700
    4. EX - 566
    5. XC60 - 489
    6. X3 - 288
    7. LR2 - 178

    Mid-Level SUV
    1. RX - 5,688
    2. SRX - 3,234
    3. X5 - 2,458
    4. MDX - 2,358
    5. MKX - 2,198
    6. ML - 1,927
    7. GX - 1,529
    8. FX - 846
    9. XC90 - 833
    10. RR Sport - 823
    11. Cayenne - 590
    12. Q7 - 473
    13. X6 - 384
    14. LR4 - 343
    15. ZDX - 172
    16. 9-7x - 17

    So the MDX has dropped to 4th place. Didn't it used to be 2nd only to the RX? IIRC it used to do a lot more volume than 2358 units/month, no?

    I'm not saying there's a bunch of MDX in Subaru used car lots. Maybe they're trading in for the newer SRX, Q5, and GLK?

    They don't seem to be buying as many MDXs, though.

    Personally, I don't mind spending $45k on cars, but in my case we got two of them. :D

    MDX is popular around here, so lots of neighbors have them. We also have a Sienna, and for me the MDX doesn't have the space of the Sienna, nor is it as fun as the Miata. Neighbors complain about it using a lot of fuel, and premium at that. The kids are cramped in the 3rd row of the MDX, but not the Sienna.

    I realize few people want to have to buy 2 cars, but in this case I spent the same amount, and I got a better hauler with more space and a better sports car. The MDX compromises by trying to be both.

    imaginary: consider a Forester and maybe a used, clean NA Miata. They make a good team. You have a summer car and a winter car. They complement each other well. Just make sure the Forester is big enough to be your primary car.
  • imaginaryimaginary Member Posts: 62
    edited February 2010
    Did you even read my post?

    BTW I never said people who can afford the luxury segment had to step down to the non-luxury segment. If you weren't aware, in the beginning, I was merely pointing out that it's possible for someone driving a luxury vehicle, like the MDX, to switch to a non-luxury vehicle, like the Forester, for whatever reasons. Remember you said you "can't see anyone" doing such things which brought on this entire conversation. :)

    As I've said, people will buy their vehicles for their reasons.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Let's keep the tone friendly, guys.

    I test drove a variety of things - Nissan Armada, Subaru Tribeca, but ended up buying a minivan, and it wasn't even AWD!

    I compared my Miata to some FWD hybrids!

    Crazy comparisons happen all the time.
  • imaginaryimaginary Member Posts: 62
    Oh, it's not about having a sports car or anything related to a sports car. It's about the AWD systems at the core of the matter; Utility is the first priority, convenience and amenities are just icing.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    edited February 2010
    Remember you said you "can't see anyone" doing such things which brought on this entire conversation. :)

    It was a general statement, meaning not just one person, but referring to the masses. Obviously one person did it, whoever that person is, maybe even two people, maybe three. These cars in my mind are not direct competitors because they both have AWD systems any more than a Hummer and a Harley both have tires.

    edit: I generally buy for form and function but both have to be there based on my needs and wants at the time. But luxury is not a Foresters strong point and if I were a luxury shopper the Forester wouldn't even be considered. Other luxury cars can do what the Forester can.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    edited February 2010
    They're probably trading for another car in the same "status" range; Lexus, Infiniti, Benz, BMW, Audi, etc.

    They may go down-market, but not likely; if so, most likely to Honda, I would think. My guess is a former MDX buyer would opt for a Honda Pilot before a Forester.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited February 2010
    Want to hear something real wild?

    In 2002 my wife had to choose between a BMW sedan and a 2 bedroom condo at the beach (a downpayment on it, anyway).

    The condo had a lot more leg and head room, plus 2 entertainment screens.

    The Bimmer had more horsepower (~190 IIRC vs. zero) but that wasn't enough to sway her from the much larger windows and running water in the condo. ;)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    edited February 2010
    But the condo couldn't transport you and your wife in style down the interstate at 90 mph. :) 90mph vs 0. :shades
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah but it's a little more comfy to sleep in. :P

    Plus, resale value has gone in the right direction (it's worth more than we paid, even after recent price drops).
  • imaginaryimaginary Member Posts: 62
    edited February 2010
    I know they're not direct competitors; I just wanted to compare them anyways because it'd be a nice change to only have to eat an oran-ple instead of having to eat both an orange and an apple to accomplish the same things. :P

    I wasn't looking for luxury at all when I stumbled upon the MDX. I'm still not looking for luxury. I am, however, looking for convenience and comfort from the Subaru Forester like second row heated seats, a power rear door, 8-10-way power passenger seat, a better navigation system, and some other stuff I can't remember off the top of my head. Since the Subaru Forester couldn't offer that, I got curious if other vehicles offered those amenities but didn't sacrifice utility at the same time. I know there are some after market solutions to my desires. However it'd be nice for a change when I don't have to put together a big puzzle using different and almost completely unrelated puzzle pieces. :sick:

    Regardless, I still love the Subaru Forester. Just, if only... :blush:
  • imaginaryimaginary Member Posts: 62
    You couldn't fold down the seats and maybe have some cushioning material laid out beneath two sleeping bags? That sounds kind of comfortable to me. Not exactly a king sized bed but it's mobile like a 20" laptop.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    edited February 2010
    Now I understand thanks for clarifying. I've kinda grown tired of my Subaru. Although it's been reliable, meaning nothing more than routine maintenance:

    - the moonroof has developed a whistling noise, but no leaks.
    - I've grown tired of the noisy interior.
    - I want radio controls on the steering wheel.
    - There is a slight coolant leak. No dripping on the floor but the coolant is disappearing somewhere.
    - I have the infamous engine click of death in the winter.
    - I want the fifth/sixth gear in the transmission.
    - One of the bearings or the belt is starting to get a little noisy.
    - Every once in a while the thing decides to burn some oil. So for about 30 seconds or so I see smoke out of the tailpipe on an occasional basis.

    There are things I like about the car, but the annoying things are really grating on me. I've already decided to run the car into the ground before getting a new one.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    What does an MDX cost nowadays? After discounts, I mean.

    I think Acura has interiors nailed down pat. I'm not a fan of the big chrome schnooze, but I've seen some aftermarket body color ones that look better. It also is more tame if you get a silver car because it blends in.

    I'm not a fan of OEM Navi - any of them. Spend $2 grand and you can't do what a $250 Garmin can do (how 'bout a custom POI database to alert you about speed cams?). The updates are seldom and cost what an entire portable unit costs.

    I read that Nissan will market a built-in with a backup cam for $400 - now you're talking. I'd still be concern about the frequency of map updates, though.
  • imaginaryimaginary Member Posts: 62
    I've driven a variety of Toyota vehicles but only just that. I'm ready for AWD. I'm tired of driving 4x4 and FWD vehicles up here in Colorado. Either I have to deal with the gear binding or trying to get a running start. I've been looking at the Subaru Forester since 1998. I know the common problems that are in the Subaru Forester. The only thing that might start to get annoying over the years are the rattles. Most of the other stuff I've already dealt with in the Toyota vehicles I've driven.
  • imaginaryimaginary Member Posts: 62
    edited February 2010
    Not sure what the price tag is after discounts. I haven't bothered to look around seriously for an MDX.

    It's nice having everything there so it's under warranty by Subaru compared to an aftermarket product. Besides having to choose which aftermarket product is the correct one, I just like everything to be from the car manufacturer when I buy it. Just that kind of flow and consistency. Maybe a bit of OCD there but oh well :).

    Oh, I'd rather have an in-dash navigation GPS than a hand-held just because it's there in the car hooked up to everything. Plus the screen size is bigger. :blush: That's a big plus.

    I haven't heard about that concerning Nissan. I was never really interested in the style of their vehicles or the kind of vehicles they have. The Leaf looks interesting but I'd rather opt for the Honda FCX Clarity if I ever thought about alternative fuel.
  • fushigifushigi Member Posts: 1,459
    Wow, I walk away for a day and the post count explodes. I'm glad for the discussion.

    I think it's the rare bird who actually cross-shops AWD systems. For most people not in extreme snow climates these differences in AWD are all theoretical. Even the worst of AWD systems can get a driver from point a to b in a decent amount of snow.

    I agree 100%. Let's be honest. There are those who buy AWD systems for off-roading. They will look at the systems in detail and probably not opt for any of these vehicles as they'll opt for a body-on-frame truck over a car-based CUV/SUV.

    Then there are those who want AWD for performance/handling. That's the Audi Quatro crowd as well as the WRX/Evo types. Engine performance matters more than the transmission's mechanical details. I'd probably toss the Infiniti EX in this group as well.

    After those groups are "the rest of us." We're the everyday buyers who live on the snow belt, drive on the beach, live in rural areas with mud/gravel roads, or do mild off-roading (like said mud/gravel). Ground clearance matters. Getting traction matters. Split differentials don't. We buy the Explorers, Foresters, MDX/RDXs, RX, Outlanders, and so on. Both luxury and non.

    For the rest of us, when there's so much snow on the ground that you're debating the merits of AWD systems, you probably should not be out driving. Even if your AWD system is up to snuff, the '82 Firebird in front of you ain't goin' nowhere fast and you're stuck behind 'em. And also, the AWD systems may help you get going and VSC will help keep you going in the direction you want, nothing will help you stop on icy roads except the 12 car pile-up in front of you.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • fushigifushigi Member Posts: 1,459
    Crazy comparisons happen all the time.

    Indeed. Back in '99 when I bought my Galant I had set a price point of $30K and said I wanted the best value (my interpretation) for the money up to that price. Through research various cars were evaluated & eliminated. The final contenders were the Galant and, surprise, the Acura TL. I liked the TL but in an honest evaluation the Galant felt like it had a bigger cabin. Both had leather, a V6 that required premium gas, good stereos, and many other similarities. The final analysis said the TL had 30 HP more than the Galant and had traction control. The Galant, after upgrading to a 10 yr warranty was $8K cheaper.

    I've no doubt I would have enjoyed the TL but the Galant was enjoyable as well and was very reliable over the 10 years/152K miles I had it. For $8K less I did not miss the experience of owning a semi-premium brand.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • imaginaryimaginary Member Posts: 62
    edited February 2010
    "For the rest of us, when there's so much snow on the ground that you're debating the merits of AWD systems, you probably should not be out driving. Even if your AWD system is up to snuff, the '82 Firebird in front of you ain't goin' nowhere fast and you're stuck behind 'em. And also, the AWD systems may help you get going and VSC will help keep you going in the direction you want, nothing will help you stop on icy roads except the 12 car pile-up in front of you."

    As state patrol officers across the nation keep saying over and over after every, single, pile-up: "It's only a matter of time before these people driving 70, even 80 mph lose control and get into an accident". There's also another solution to that too. It's taking a road you know is almost completely out of your way but has little to no traffic. If the "rest of us" are willing to take the chance of going on the highway when you know full well there are people in your state who have no idea how to drive in the snow, you should know you're going to be running into that "12 car pile-up" pretty soon. Your chances of running into such a pile up are as simple as remembering there are more ways than one to get to the cities in your state.

    Driving like a grandma at a safe speed limit beats getting into a 12-30 car pile up. Oh and leaving ample space between you and the car in front of you. Personally, I'd rather run into a ditch than end up sandwiched into a pile up BUT that's just me. :) I at least know I "debated" my AWD system to prepare for such occurrences. We're the the kind of people who actually plan ahead and, sometimes, over plan for every single detail. :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited February 2010
    or trying to get a running start

    That's what it's like with my FWD Sienna. Can't make it up my stinkin' driveway when there's snow, not to mention I gotta turn the VSC off.

    GPS ... Plus the screen size is bigger.

    Hmm, consider an Outback, then. A 3.6R Ltd with Navi is still low 30s, and it has a giant 8" screen. The backup cam has trajectory lines, and it's a bit nicer inside than the Forester. Early reliability scores from TrueDelta have been excellent (sadly the Equinox/Terrain are showing electrical gremlins).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good call, too. Didn't those '99 TLs have the glass transmissions?
  • fushigifushigi Member Posts: 1,459
    The trajectory lines are great. It makes backing into parking spaces in the Outlander a breeze. The Outie also has a red line going across that represents about 18" from the bumper, which allows room for a reasonable gap and coincidentally is enough to open the hatch. There are also hash marks at 1, 2, and 3 meters.

    After one snowfall the image was blurry as there was a small icicle hanging in front of it. :)
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • fushigifushigi Member Posts: 1,459
    Some TLs did have the bad trannies but I though that was the 02-03 years. Could have easily included the 99s and up, though. What sucked was Acura replaced the bad transmissions with more of the same, but IIRC they did extend the warranty on them.

    The Galant was rock-solid dependable. The only time I couldn't drive it was when the OEM battery died suddenly after about 3 or 4 years. Otherwise I was never stranded and had just $500 in repairs (does not include maintenance/wear items) over almost 11 years. Having it be such a good car is what caused me to heavily favor the Outlander.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • authurdentauthurdent Member Posts: 82
    "The Galant was rock-solid dependable. The only time I couldn't drive it was when the OEM battery died suddenly after about 3 or 4 years. Otherwise I was never stranded and had just $500 in repairs (does not include maintenance/wear items) over almost 11 years. Having it be such a good car is what caused me to heavily favor the Outlander."

    Same with our Mirage, dead battery every 4-5 years was the only problem, otherwise trouble-free, which made considering another Mitsu very logical. Just spent some quality time in a 2010 Benz GLK. Decent seats, nice leather, but I think the Outlander seats might be better. The GLK was a bit more docile over bumps, but the Outlander seemed spunkier. Plus the Outie has adjustable rear seats and considerably more cargo space.
  • imaginaryimaginary Member Posts: 62
    edited February 2010
    Yeah, I've thought about the Subaru Outback. It'd be nice if they used the GPS from the Outback in the Forester. I've heard good things about the Outback and Tribeca GPS. People seem to like it over the GPS from the Forester. The only bad thing I've heard is that both don't offer live traffic updates and they're both CD-based navigation systems.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    there was a small icicle hanging in front of it

    New feature for next year - cam de-icers! :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My wife had a Mirage as well. 1988 model year, IIRC? Sedan, manual trans.

    Too bad it wasn't a turbo. Odd thing was it had no power steering! Strage because it had some really nice seats in it. The manual shifter sort of clunked in to each gear, also.

    Our experience was so-so. She replaced it with a Mazda 626. With power steering. ;)

    I'd share a photo that I have but she's got that 80s hairdo that makes her look like the 5th member of the rock band Poison. :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited February 2010
    DVD, actually.

    FWIW, before I got traffic on my Garmin, I used Google Maps on my BlackBerry (great interface):

    image

    And to be honest, I wouldn't call either "live" traffic. It's useful, sure, but the information comes about 20 minutes after any incident happens. Here in DC the news station is quicker, with updates every 10 minutes.

    I still use it, but I've disabled the automatic re-routing feature. Basically it still reports the incident to me, but does not detour - I decide whether or not to do that.

    What I'd like to see is what Dash tried (and failed) to do, which is 2-way communication to the GPS device, and then a display of average speeds on that road in real-time.

    You'd need enough subscribers, but that would be truly "live".
  • authurdentauthurdent Member Posts: 82
    Probably not much different than your 1988, our '91 Colt hatchback was excellent for what it was. Sure vinyl seats + no AC + summertime heat = sweatbox! But not a lick of trouble for 7 years and 89K miles. Not much after selling the car, it did need a $600 computer (known issue with these cars), but ran like a champ for another 10 years and 115,000 miles! After that experience, we stuck with Mitsus and never looked back. Sure, I've tried other cars, but most other Asian vehicles were either too boring or too ubiquitous. While I think most Mitsus well deserve greater respect and sales, I like owing a "different" car. Can't tell you how much omnipresent RAV4s make me want to gag!

    I've sat in many Suburus over the years, but haven't really liked them for numerous reasons - thin doors, frameless doors, uncomfortable seats, loud engines, premature rust, ugly styling, terribly tight rear seat (just previous version Forester!). And while there are nits with the Outlander (tight spacing around the seats, slightly jumpy downshifts), so far its been a good car. Might even like it for seat comfort over the 2010 GLK. Although interior textures and AT shifts were noticeably better.

    Poison would choose Mitsubishis!!
  • imaginaryimaginary Member Posts: 62
    Ah, yes. That's what I meant to say. I think I prefer hard drive-based navigation systems over DVD-based navigation systems. My HTC Touch Pro2 with Sprint offers traffic too but I've had such bad experiences with it trying to find places around other towns that I haven't used it in a while. I haven't tried Google maps for traffic though.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Thankfully Subaru now uses galvanized steel. Remember those rusty GLs? The body would fall off, but they'd still be running. :D

    I did look at a '91 Colt (the bodystyle had changed from my wife's car), but ended up buying a '91 Escort GT, which actually got a Mazda powertrain (from the Protoge). I remember these:

    image

    Funny thing is Subaru is far, far less "quirky" now. The Forester was up-sized and mainstreamed, and Americans love it. Traditional Subaristi complained about the bulky door frames and all the growth in size! Everyone else loved the changes.

    Today's headline from Automotive News:

    NADA MAKE MEETINGS
    Subaru dealers: We need cars

    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100222/RETAIL06/302229987/1- 379#ixzz0gHtjPw90

    60 days' supply is ideal, they're at less than half that amount.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Gotcha.

    There is a seperate slot for the map DVD, FWIW. Some cheaper Panasonic Nav units have only one CD/DVD slot, so if you want to listen to music you have to load your route first, then pop in the music, one at a time. No such issue with the Kenwood units Subaru uses.

    Another nice things is updates are frequent - the Tribeca came with v1.0 maps, but Kenwood makes regular updates available (2.0, 2.1, 2.2, and now 3.0 is the latest) for purchase. You can buy them from Subaru or directly from Kenwood.

    Mitsu had Navteq v2006 maps when the 2007 Outlander models came out, and last I heard offered only one update to Navteq v2008, which is now more than 2.5 years old. Garmin portables are up to v2010.30.

    Just something to consider. All those POI updates - you search for Shopping, Electronics, and it's gonna pull up all those Circuit City stores that have shuttered.

    I had v2008 on my Garmin Nuvi 200w and sold it because the maps needed updating. Replaced it with a Nuvi 265wt.

    No it's my wife's turn. She has v2009 on her StreetPilot c340, and it got us lost last weekend. We went to Williamsburg, VA, and then drove back to DC. It didn't have the Springfield mixing bowl updated. So it told us to stay right when we had to exit left. We ended up going east instead of west (had to, we missed our exit).

    DOH! The GPS is supposed to prevent that, that's the whole point in fact. :mad:

    It's officially for sale. The c340 model is old so rather than pay $65 for a map update, I'll just sell it for whatever I can get and then upgrade her to a widescreen model. I may even get myself a 5" Nuvi 1390T and then give her the 260w from my van.

    I know, I've gone GPS crazy. We currently own 3, but I've owned 5 (sold 2 to upgrade maps/features) and I was a tester/pilot user for Dash, so 6.

    All I've got to say is do not overlook the importance of updated maps. What good are traffic reports if highways like MD's ICC, the Springfield mixing bowl (I-495, I-95, I-395), and the Montrose Parkway did not exist back in v2008? I'm not even sure how it will try to report those.

    Even the v2009 maps on my wife's c340 doesn't have the intersections right on the path I take to get to the shore correct - Rt 404, 13, 26, 20, and 54 in MD/DE. Though it is funny to look at the screen and have it tell you you're in the middle of a corn field. :D

    Just be aware of what you're getting, is all.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    That's why I use VZNAV. 'Nuff said. When my hardware is outdated I get a new phone.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited February 2010
    You pay a fee to use that, though, right?

    I like the PNDs (personal navigation devices) because the interface is excellent, especially Garmin's.

    I haven't seen reviews of VZNAV, but I wouldn't trade my Garmin for any of the apps I've seen on the iPhone so far.

    Google Maps is great for the traffic display, but the directions take you back a decade to MapQuest-like directions. It's also slow to load. The Garmin is MUCH quicker.

    I'm happy enough with my 265wt that I may buy a 2nd one. Only thing is I might opt for the bigger screen of the 1300/1400 series.
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