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Ford Fiesta

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  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    But that's really the point - this is the first Focus that was designed and built under the new Ford management team and it represents a big change in philosophy. The old Focus was cheap. They overbuilt them, fleet dumped them and put $3K on the hood just to get rid of them. They didn't get any nice features. It was also built on a stand-alone U.S. only platform.

    The new philosophy starts with the new Fiesta and continues with the Focus - build best in class small cars on global platforms. This is something Ford has been doing in Europe but not for the U.S.

    So far it looks like they're succeeding, at least from what we see. It will be interesting to see the first drives on both the Focus and the Fiesta.
  • iamziamz Member Posts: 542
    "Do you actually know that they do not have the reinforced doors in Europe? That would be surprising to me."

    akirby wrote; "The safety differences have to do with specific U.S. crash tests (like side impact) that the Euro models don't have to be engineered for."

    I inferred it from his statement.
  • iamziamz Member Posts: 542
    This person on another site also implied that the insurance companies were responsible for making US cars less safe. Wouldn't that be the IIHS? That's where he stated that the stronger US bumpers were designed to hold up better in low speed accidents (and therefore save the insurance companies money). Those higher strength bumpers then transfer more energy to the cabins and end up hurting the occupants in higher speed accidents. Of course, wouldn't the insurance companies then experience higher medical payouts? To be honest, I think he is full of it but can't find actual data to demonstrate what is true.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that Europe doesn't have side impact tests. I just meant that we have different requirements for those tests. In most (if not all) cases it isn't a question of which one is better - it's just that they are different and that the mfrs design the vehicle to pass specific tests.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    That's just ridiculous. Medical injuries would cost the insurance companies a lot more than minor bumper repairs.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Besides, I'd hardly call bumpers "high strength". They don't hold up to much of anything.

    The insurance industry in the US, on their own via IIHS, started the offset test for front end crashes (this is a much tougher test than the one the gov't performs) and also the more severe side impact tests. Certainly they'd like to see less costly damage from minor accidents, as well, but to imply that they don't care about damage to vehicle occupants is just ridiculous.
  • iamziamz Member Posts: 542
    Exactly. It just wasn't worth arguing though. If I was to extrapolate his logic to the new Fiesta, all the structural changes being made to the car to meet US and IIHS crash standards will actually give us a more dangerous car than the European Fiesta. I'm just not buying it.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    In Europe, the have a very stringent pedestrian crash standard that involves a vehicle absorbing as much as possible of a pedestrian-vehicle collision. Their bumpers and hoods are made of tinfoil to catch and cradle a wayward pedestrian. They are experimenting with airbags on the outside of the car for such a purpose.

    In North America, vehicle-pedestrian incidents are much less common, outside of Isla Vista or Ann Arbor (or insert any college campus town), and vehicle to vehicle collisions are the norm. Add into that the huge variation in vehicle sizes in North America, and the frequency of various crash types changes. Cars here are designed for the type of collisions we have here and cars in Europe are designed for the type of crashes they have.

    The new Fiesta has a slightly different front end for North America than Europe to accommodate those changes. Also, our headlamp requirements are different, again related to the different types of driving environments here and there. The same is true for the Honda Jazz/Fit, and I think even the Echo or Tercel or whatever the baby Toyota is called now.
  • iamziamz Member Posts: 542
    I did hear one of the US Fiesta engineers say that they are keeping the "body impact" hood the same as the Euro Fiesta. I hope that doesn't mean it will dent real easy.
  • iamziamz Member Posts: 542
    I did a reservation but will wait until after the Mpls. Auto Show to decide if I'll buy for sure. I'm about 90% sold on it though. ;)
  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    I did hear one of the US Fiesta engineers say that they are keeping the "body impact" hood the same as the Euro Fiesta. I hope that doesn't mean it will dent real easy.

    I haven't yet seen a new Fiesta with a dented bonnet, (hood to you guys), so I guess the trick is not to go hitting things with the front of your car. Unless I'm missing something here, isn't that one of the Top 10 Do Nots of driving?; "Do not hit things with the front of the car". Ditto with the back, left side and right side. Do not hit things with the roof of the car is my personal No.1 as that is probably preceded by at least one of the other four.

    Sorry, being flippant. I don't think the front of the new Fiesta is going to buckle if you go over 60mph or a fly lands on it. However, I wouldn't stand on it if you weigh more than, er....................not very much, I guess. :)
  • iamziamz Member Posts: 542
    Hold on a sec,...let me write that down;(Do not hit things with the front of the car). OK. Got it. ;)

    Seriously though, my car sits out all the time and that means two or three or more hail storms every year. So I'm hoping the sheet metal is a decent gauge and that it can hold up. I suspect it's just the under structure of the hood that is designed to give more easily in the event of a pedestrian impact.
  • iamziamz Member Posts: 542
    ...starting this week. Cars won't start showing up until July if I understood correctly.
  • phill1phill1 Member Posts: 319
    I pulled the trigger yesterday and had my local Ford dealer place my order for a 2011 Ford Fiesta Hatchback SE with auto/trans, candy red metallic paint upgrade ($180) sports appearance package (aluminum alloy wheels plus etc) power moon roof, rear floor mats,I opted NOT for the High Output radio with 6 speakers and Sync for the standard am/fm single c-d radio with 4 speakers and took the cash credit for $595 instead. The power moon roof was only $695, so talking the Sync credit, the power moon roof was only $100! Late delivery of vehicle Aug/Sept. due to moon roof but I`m willing to wait. Once you`ve had a car with a (hole in the roof) there is no going back.

    .
  • iamziamz Member Posts: 542
    I should be ordering a Fiesta within a couple of weeks. I'm looking at a SE with Sport Appearance Package in Lime Squeeze and will take the cash instead of the Sync like you. Even though I currently have a sunroof, and my previous two cars also have had sunroofs, I actually don't like them.

    What color interior are you going with? I'm going for the Light Stone mainly because I like the look of the two-tone dash.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Just curious why you guys aren't getting Sync?
  • iamziamz Member Posts: 542
    Only speaking for myself, at age 45, I'm not the target demographic for the Fiesta. I prefer talk radio and news while I'm driving and rarely listen to music in the car. Seems that Sync's main purpose is for music. I also don't use a cell phone while I'm in the car and that's it's other purpose.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Those would be good reasons........
  • phill1phill1 Member Posts: 319
    Well, I don`t need a Nav/mp3/internet access/nor do I feel the need to tweet/chirp/facebook/youtube/or myspace while I`m driving. I only listen to NPR radio most of the time an once in a while throw in a favorite cd now and then. Im not into social networking, I`m into AARP! I`d wait for the new 2012 Escort but I like the B segment size better. Currently driving a 2006 Kia Rio5 hatchback an love it. Its 4 years old and got 53K and its time for a new vehicle. Like the style/mpg of the Fiesta and the only thing its missing is DRL...Daytime running lights which the dealer will activate for me on delivery. Its something they got to do with the Ford IDS computer and the SJB Smart Junction Box. Cars in Canada have them by law. Most vehicles both domestic and import have them in USA too but Ford and Chrysler refuse to spend the few extra pennies for US bound cars.
  • phill1phill1 Member Posts: 319
    I opted for the Candy Red Metallic ($180) extra and went with the SE Cloth interior in Light Stone/Charcoal. I too like the lighter interior with the 2-tone look. My Kia Rio5 has the all black interior and I`m tired of that plus it shows too much of my 2 Golden Retriever`s shedding dog hair!
  • phill1phill1 Member Posts: 319
    I live in South Florida and although its too hot in the summer months to enjoy the glass moon roof, the car looks so much better IMO with the look of a Moon Roof plus the price is a steal! Fall, winter and spring, its nice to push the button and open it up. Like a make believe convertible without the rattles and leaks.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Sync has NOTHING to do with tweets or facebook - not sure where you got that idea. It lets you listen to music from a mp3 player or a usb flash drive and it gives you bluetooth hands free access to your cell phone. It also gives you vehicle health reports and will call 911 for you in an accident.

    There are many things that you can do with Sync besides listen to mp3s. Not that there is anything wrong with not getting it if you don't want it.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Sync has NOTHING to do with tweets or facebook - not sure where you got that idea. It lets you listen to music from a mp3 player or a usb flash drive and it gives you bluetooth hands free access to your cell phone. It also gives you vehicle health reports and will call 911 for you in an accident.

    There are many things that you can do with Sync besides listen to mp3s. Not that there is anything wrong with not getting it if you don't want it.

    Until you want to replace it...I wouldn't buy a used F/L/M without SYNC. Knowing that an airbag deployment will call 911 and that I can keep my entire music library in my car with me at all times and access it with a voice command, that is too much to pass on.
  • phill1phill1 Member Posts: 319
    I guess its hard for some folks that aren`t old enough to remember The Door`s , The Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, or the Vietnam War, but some of the rest of us aging Dinosaurs don`t know about and more importantly, don`t care about all that technology. Sync will voice activate and diagnose an engine malfunction. I assume the vehicle comes with a check engine light for the mechanic at the dealership to diagnose the malfunction. As for the 911 function...like ON Star? I usually carry my cell phone and hope I`ll be able to dial 911 for help. Anyone ever here the saying....Keep it Simple? Quess not if you were born after 1965. Handsfree chatting while driving is (still) a distraction. Unless your a doctor or funeral director getting an urgent call, talking while driving should not happen. And even with those professions, just pull over to a safe spot, park the damn car, and place or resume your call. The trouble with most people today blabbing loudly in public places with bad boorish behavior is that they are not old enough to remember when Phone Booths had (doors) and a persons phone conversation was supposed to be private, unfortunately...not anymore. I hope Ford doesn`t cancel my Fiesta order because I don`t fit the (hip) profile that this vehicle is actually targeted for....lol.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    But what if you're incapable of dialing 911 after the accident? That's where Sync does it for you and even announces your location if you can't speak. And it does it with YOUR phone.

    You can also use it to listen to audiobooks or podcasts (NPR has a lot of content out there). It's not just music.

    Maybe you'd be more comfortable in a nice Grand Marquis? (j/k) :blush:
  • iamziamz Member Posts: 542
    I think you might be worrying too much about things that statistically are likely to never occur during a typical lifespan.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Who said I was worrying? It's a free feature that comes with Sync. I was just pointing out that there are scenarios where it's useful, however rare it might be. Of course if it happens to you then it doesn't matter how rare it is.
  • colloquorcolloquor Member Posts: 482
    You have to remember iamz, the current generation can't live without their cellphone and iPod. Taking away either will create major withdrawal symptoms!
  • iamziamz Member Posts: 542
    It's not free. It's $595. If you opt out of the Sync upgrade, you get to keep $595.
  • iamziamz Member Posts: 542
    I know, but I don't fault them for this. That's how they were brought up and that's how they live. We are all different and that makes life more interesting.
  • phill1phill1 Member Posts: 319
    Great to see that there a few of us throw backs ( baby-boomer here) that still want to purchase a new 2011 Ford Fiesta without all the techno gadgits! A sharp looking smaller vehicle that gets good gas mileage without a 25K price tag for a hybrid. Good point about the Sync feature that dials 911 after a crash and air bag deployment but some us grew up despite all odds against us not having had padded dashboards, seat belts/shoulder belts,air bags,child seats, bicycle helmets, and we still reached retirement age. Wow, guess its good genes and being lucky or maybe a good dose of Common Sense which by the way is no longer (common).
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    It's not free. It's $595.

    I didn't say Sync was free. I said the 911 assist feature was free with Sync.

    I just wondered why Fiesta buyers would not want Sync and that was answered. No need to get defensive about it or start bashing the younger generation. I have a 15 yr old and a 21 yr old and while I don't share their enthusiasm for cell phones and ipods, I do use them occasionally and Sync makes it a lot easier to do that.
  • iamziamz Member Posts: 542
    akirby,

    I'm not sure how anything I said could be taken as "defensive" or "bashing". I'm way confused now. What did I defend against? And who did I bash? Help me understand what you are refering to? Or did you just read too much in to what I wrote?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Sorry - the bashing comment was for phill1 and colloquor, not you.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited March 2010
    I`d wait for the new 2012 Escort but I like the B segment size better.

    I've never seen any Escort larger than the current Fiesta. Maybe that's why it's not called "Escort" anymore.

    It's bulky -- wider than the '06 Lexus LS430 but still cost a little less: :P
    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/247717/fords_new_rs_twins.html- - -

    "According to Kuzak, the new car will be a “global performance model” so will be sold both in Europe and the US for the first time."
    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/249346/focus_st_gets_ready_to_- - - roar.html?CMP=NLC-Newsletters&uid=13175373d3a30b0aa330c8ea6a3df587

    What an interesting competitor for the 4-cyl Mazda3 2.5, which is still based on the Focus II. The 2012 Focus III ST 2.0 turbo is based on a shortened version of the Mondeo IV, which James Bond drove in Casino Royale.
  • iamziamz Member Posts: 542
    OK. Understood. I have no kids myself but I do have nieces and nephews and they always have there mp3 players with them and I can guarantee they would love Sync. And considering how much I used to listen to music (back in my teens and early twenties), I wouldn't have hesitated to get Sync if they had it back then.

    BTW, are you thinking about ordering a Fiesta?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    It's a possibility - either for me as a daily commuter or my daughter.
  • iamziamz Member Posts: 542
    If you get it, and let your daughter drive it, you'll never get it back. ;)
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    So maybe plan B is better - get her a Fiesta and get me a 3 yr old Porsche Cayman S (Guard's Red of course)!
  • phill1phill1 Member Posts: 319
    Sorry I gave you and your kids a wedgie! I`d did`nt mean to offend any of you. My point along with those made by" iamz" was that some of us maturing "adults" without children or grandchildren living at home with us, don`t want and don`t have any need for Sync, other then the three (sinks) I already have in my Kitchen and Bathrooms! My point was, I`d rather take the $595 cash credit for the Sync on my new 2011 Ford Fiesta and opt for the Power Moon Roof which is only $695, and for the $100 difference,I personally would get a lot more enjoyment and use out of the (hole in the roof) then a Sync that I would never use! I not a bitter old man, still enjoy flying all over North America to see Rolling Stones Concerts and Neil Young! But, if that puts me into a group considered "bashers", so be it. I`m in and damn proud of it too!
  • phill1phill1 Member Posts: 319
    See what I`m talking about? Here I am waiting on my new Fiesta and I posted my reasons for not wanting to wait for Fords new (C- segment) 2012 Focus and I mentioned Escort, lol. I should have remembered since I replaced my old 1998 Escort wagon with a new 2001 Focus wagon. Guess its time for my nap.
  • iamziamz Member Posts: 542
    Phill1, don't feel too bad about acidentally writing Escort instead of Focus. I didn't catch the mixup when I read your post. I guess they are one in the same in my mind also.
  • iamziamz Member Posts: 542
    That's a good plan B. Personally, I'd go for a 2006 Audi TT quattro sport.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Ok, bashing was a bit too strong. I was just trying to point out that Sync was not just for teenagers with ipods who use twitter and facebook. I was just curious about your reasons since I thought everyone nowadays at least had a cell phone that would benefit from Sync.

    If you don't listen to music, podcasts or audiobooks and you don't use your cell phone at all while driving then Sync isn't for you. I get it. Just making sure you guys understood the technology, that's all.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I'd go for a 2006 Audi TT quattro sport.

    But my wife has always been nuts for 911s (Cayman is close enough). For some reason she doesn't think we can afford one until the youngest is out of the house, even though I've pointed out time after time that I can buy a used Cayman or 911 for less than we've paid for each of her last 3 new vehicles. So this would not only be a nice ride for me but it would get MAJOR brownie points with the wife. Not so much with the Audi.......
  • phill1phill1 Member Posts: 319
    Actually, I must admit that both my wife and myself both acquired our cell phones several years ago. She has a pre-paid Tracfone where as she pays about $100 annually for 12 months of use and 400 minutes of airtime which (always) rolls over due to lack of use, any I own a Net 10 pre-paid cell phone as well thats very seldom used. Both were purchased as emergency tools in case of vehicle break down or other calamity. Neither one of us keeps the phones on to conserve battery life as they are essentially for (out going calls) and convenience. We would`nt know how to text message someone if our lives depended on it. That said, you can see that Sync would be for us, a gadget that would seldom if ever be used. I am although happy to report that we both have been successful in the past using our finger to operate the power moon roof feature in our other vehicles by simply pressing the proper activation button!
  • iamziamz Member Posts: 542
    The bad thing about used high end vehicles (like Porsche, BMW, Audi, etc,...), are the repair costs. I've known two people who have bought "affordable" used luxury vehicles (one with a Porsche and one with a Mercedes), who quickly found they could not afford to keep it on the road.

    Although, if you managed to find a good extended warranty.... :)
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I have two neighbors and friends that both bought pre-owned 911s so I understand the expenses. And it's not really a financial decision - we could afford a new one if we really wanted it. I think it had more to do with her giving up her practical crossover for an impractical 2 seater which I agree with. I was planning to buy a Mustang convertible which she doesn't like anyway. So this way I get my sports car, she keeps her Edge and she gets to look at and drive the Porsche whenever she wants.

    I'll probably get the daughter a new one and end up keeping my Fusion for a few more years. After downgrading from a Lincoln LS and an Aviator to the Fusion and Edge I find that new cars don't have as much appeal as a car that's paid off.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    That said, if you get one with manual and without the overblown engine, the Cayman is a very decent car. Sure, things cost more but not unreasonably so. It's all of the electronics and ad-ons and goodies and automatic gearbox that end up costing a fortune to fix.

    Now, if you want 95% of the driving experience for half the money, look at a RX8.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited March 2010
    Who sez these high-hp cars are better to drive? Have you really had fun driving them (off track)?

    If you get to live w/ them, then you might regret.

    The heavy-weight 4-seat RX-8 has weak low end. Therefore the 2-seat Miata riding on the same-but-shortened platform power by the 2.0 Duratec similar to the Focus engine will get you more smile-per-mile on every power oversteer from churning the LSD (limited-slip differential).

    Recently my cousins each bought a new 2-seater -- a Cayman S & a base-suspension Miata. They were all surprised to find out that the Cayman S, which is about 3 times as expensive, is acutally less comfortable to steer & ride than the Miata.

    A dentist, who got excessive disposable income & just traded in his '96 BMW 528i for a new 911, told me that he doesn't even feel like driving his Porsche any more after just one day!
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