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As i was driving near my home my car just stopped and would not go into any gear. I just had it in a lexus dealership for a quote on the knock sensor two weeks prior.
I have mentioned several times to this dealer and a dealer in another state that the transmission seemed to slip periodically (about 6 times) over the last 2 years while going into reverse. And now i see these posts and am furious. They all acted like they had no idea why it would be doing this and did not even recommend i have the transmission looked at.
I see what seems like lots of folks getting help from Lexus and from the dealerships in offsetting the cost of the new transmission. Has anyone been refused assistance?
Does anyone know of any OTHER shops in milwaukee area that will give me a more reasonable quote should i decide not to spend time fighting with Lexus?
bgr
"Normal" service does not include the transmission until failure, as you've undoubtedly read or found out by now.
I'm not the biggest advocate of any brand's dealer service. However, in your case I'd stick with Lexus on this issue because it's likely they will help you if they feel it's in the interest of continued customer loyalty. Also, the transmissions sourced from Lexus are more likely to have updated hardware (better than original) than one sourced from a third-party transmission shop that was rebuilt with aftermarket parts. I'm guessing you don't want to spend a few thousand dollars and risk having the same trouble again in a couple years. My new Lexus transmission is great, after having it replaced under warrantee. And the new one does not show wear in the fluid (burning color & smell) like the original did. I expect the replacement to be much more durable.
Please report back and let others know how you were treated and how it worked out. Hopefully, Lexus will agree to pick up the tab for a good percentage, bringing your cost into reason. Good luck.
WHAT...??!!!
What excuse was given for THAT...??
When I purchased the warranty, there were two kinds of warranty. One regular warranty and other full warranty, obviously expensive than the first one. I opted for the second (full). Hope the above statement refers to the regular warranty. If not, I will have to double-check with my dealer who said everything is covered (except battery, etc).
Please check once again what kind of warranty you have!!
I am extremely unhappy with the fact this was not discovered during the road test, and that Lexus will not warranty or support the defective transmission product. Chronic and expensive transmission problems represent the weak link with Lexus RX vehicles. I have lost faith and piece of mind in both the product and Lexus customer support structure which offers nothing to the owner. I am now ready to join the Lexus class action lawsuit.
You mentioned that your vehicle was under extended warranty. Did the warranty cover the transmission problem you are talking about?
Thanks
I suggest all the year 2000 Lexus RX300 owner, carefully check your transmissions with your mechanic. Do not drive on the higway unless you are sure there is no problem with your transmission.
I just discovered that the F/awd VC, Viscous Clutch/coupling is different for the '99 & '00 RX300 vs the '01 and later RX300s. The '01 F/awd was the first year TC/VSC was adopted so it makes some sense engineering wise that the '01 and later VCs would/could be made less functional.
That would mean the earlier versions would have had a more robust, quickly acting, VC, and that would of course put more stress on the drivetrain overall.
While I still remain of the firm belief that the ATF pump motor revision was/is the primary causative factor in these premature transaxle failures it now seems clear to me that the F/awd with the more "solid" VC could be a contributing factor.
I think it's faulty logic to assume that failure rates attributed to or contributed by extra wear from AWD can be determined by frustrated owners who post public messages. For instance, I'm the original owner of an early '99 (may '98) 2WD model (no extra drag from a viscous coupling, etc.), and it had transmission troubles right out of the box. There were TSB's from the factory that prescribed replacement of faulty valve bodies on 2WD models right away, under warrantee, but the dealer postponed doing anything about the problem until the transmission needed replacement under warrantee. But my friend has a couple hundred thousand miles (LA commuter miles) on his 2000 AWD, without any problems. However, my example is not statistically valid. There may very well be more AWD failures than 2WD, but that's statistically to be expected because there were a lot more RX's sold with AWD. Also, owners with no experience of early failure, or satisfied with replacement under the original long warrantee understandably don't seem to post a lot of messages about their experience, which separates their data from the samples.
Many (not all) of the messages I've seen posted (not including Mr. West's) take on an understandably angry complaining tone, but don't give details useful to others, except condone the ownership of any vehicle made by the same manufacturer. Not only are those messages not statistically valid at all, but they don't do the poster or readers any justice. The posts from owners who are coping with failures that provide useful details, such as when the TRANSMISSION was specifically serviced (not part of regular service), how transmission service was performed, the way the RX was used, the service department experience, etc. provide helpful information to share with other owners. I'm also curious to know failure rates compared with other competing models.
I expect many of us bought an RX expecting above average reliability. However almost all models these days seem to have some achilles heel. It would be interesting, and useful, to compare failure stats to other models as well.
I look forward to posts from owners who can provide information useful to others, including specifics.
IMMHO the abolition of the old style ATF pump motor line pressure control and pressure sustaining accumulator during the RX300's design phase is the primary case of the early RX300 transaxke failures. Obviously any additional stress resulting from the addition of the F/awd system and the more robust VC would ahev served to excerbate matters in this regard.
Note that along with the adoption of DBW for the RX330 the VC was also dropped entirely. IMMHO the adoption of TC in '01 eliminated the possibility that the VC, ANY VC, would ever become functional, be of any real service, in any case.
I bought the '99 2WD (FWD) with Traction Control on purpose, to maximize fuel economy, acceleration, and carrying capacity, which it apparently does. TC was not available on AWD until it's inclusion with the adoption of VSC, I think 2001. The 2000 AWD models I've driven did feel better in the curves (torque from the center of the vehicle is noticeable on comparison to my '99 2WD where the torque is "pulling" from the front) but that advantage was apparently lost when the 95/5 split was adopted.
Since the FWD model with the skinny 225/70R16 stock tires did tend to obnoxiously slip the inside front wheel very easily, the TC would activate often to stop the slip (and also retard engine efficiency and the ease of making a quick maneuver -in a really ungraceful way- unless you pushed the "off" button quickly). I'm kinda picky about such things, and it bothered me. Other than the sloppy, overprotective way the TC nanny would slap my hands on the steering wheel and scary-slow left turn capabilities, I always wondered about the extra wear on the drivetrain and front brakes. Then I just put the widest and grippiest tire I could mount on the stock rims (255/65/HR16 Mich Cross-Terrain with hub-centric rear wheel spacers), which eliminated almost all slippage until the TC appropriately thumps in, in a more buffered manner.
So what's harder on the transmission, drivetrain, and brakes? :confuse: Drag from the TC activating more often on 2WD? Viscous Coupling and AWD? AWD without VC? Maybe the weakness (Achilles heal) is the light-duty, less-than-robust design of the transmission. :sick: And to me, the lack of a "handling package" to flatten the cornering, but I'm the only one who seems to complain about that :mad:
So on a side-note, the thought of selling my RX because of it's weaknesses reminds me that competing models with superior handling characteristics might punch a hole in my wallet much more than the cost of a replacement transmission, even if I had to pay for it, which isn't likely for me for a long time. Those models are not exempt from $4000 repairs, either. Check the Audi, BMW, and VW sites, not to mention the domestics.
TC braking is selective, mostly only on the slipping wheel(s), and only on the relatively rare instances of actual wheelspin/slip, and even then with INSTANT engine dethrottling. So TC would likely only reduce the life of the brake pads and rotors.
A VC that "stiffens" rather quickly, as in, probably, the '99 & '00 models, would add stress to the drivetrain only in instances of some wheels having moderate to highly tractive conditions, resulting in driveline windup and/or tire scrubbing. A fairly common circumstance therefore a possible contributor to the premature transaxle failures of the '99 and '00 models.
F/awd without VC..?? Probably an advantage with a sports car on a a race track but virtually USELESS otherwise, just has now been proven by Toyota and Lexus via the HL, Sienna, and RX. VC not available, or at least not a functional one, and a TC system as backup which you often must turn off in order to get up and going in the very conditions for which you bought the F/awd version to begin with.
So the new Venza and 2010 RX350's F/awd system is/will be a definite improvement, but still not nearly as adequate as the SH-AWD system. Personally I'd much rather have a R/awd or even a RWD wherein primary propulsion is left to the rear tires and the front traction coefficient is primarily dedicated to mainatinaing directional control.
But life is a continuous series of compromises.
My '01 F/awd RX300 was only able to "pull", at most, a 75/25 F/R torque distribution reading on a 4 wheel dyno test. 95/5 initially.
I'd bet, with hindsight, the '99 and '00, new, would have pulled something closer to a 50/50 in the same test.
So my guess is a 2000 model year with AWD would be more of a smile on the curves, as long as it has a good transmission (or replaced with a more modern one), ATF changed often, and with larger rubber contact patch on the ground.
What are the chances I can find a retrofit to 5 speed (manual)? Ha ha. Probably the same as finding upgraded sway bars and links. Or maybe just a good used Legacy GT wagon, and give up on all the nice (but minor) features the RX has.
But if the car is otherwise in reliable and decent shape, I'd think it's worth shopping price on the tranny. But I still tend to favor spending a little extra if it's a Lexus replacement transmission; specs to a more modern design. I'm not generally a big advocate for dealer service, but it's worth it if you're not just getting the same type of tranny that failed on you before, with aftermarket parts, compared to one that's from an updated design. Plus, my guess is the Lexus dealer is pretty experienced at transmission replacements. And they might be able to get some kind of discount to you if they get the feeling it's to earn your continued loyalty (business). And cheaper than car payments. Just my hunch.
Please keep us posted on what you decide, and what happens (and how much it hurts your wallet!)
Good luck.
Our '95 LS400 is now at 225,000 miles and the tranny is still pulling STRONG.
A lot more room, of course, to put a strong and fully robust, adequate, transmission.
I'm not a fan of automatics anyway, but I can't see how it could operate any better than the "updated design" new one except if it had paddle shifters (and I thought it was stout enough to shift manually). No hesitation, in fact I would call the downshifts "enthusiastic". All that and it doesn't demonstrate wear (burning fluid) the way the original did.
I wish I had suggestions for your claim. But unless the dealer did something wrong, your claim is more likely against the manufacturer, and it will be up to you to prove that failure after 96,000 miles of use is premature or an unsafe design. Yeah, it seems like there are a lot of reports of failure. I expected a more reliable design when I bought a Lexus. But I'm glad you got a big loyalty discount.
I wish you luck and hope you find the info and reimbursement you're looking for.
Please keep us posted how it goes.
Yes discounting a $5000 charge by $1000...
Except most STEALERS would have done that work for <$4000 ($3200 is more typical) to begin with.
171,000 miles for a '99 RX isn't bad, so much so I would suspect the transaxle has been replaced at least once before, if not twice.
It sounds like you don't want to put a lot of money in your car the way you describe it uses a quart of oil in between changes, which is more than some cars but not excessive, however I'd be really, really careful about a choice to use a used/salvaged tranny (I wouldn't do it) because you're very likely to end up with the same problem in a short time. The original '99's were bad from the beginning, many replaced under warrantee. But some '99 4WD have been known to last a lot longer.
If you decide to replace the transmission, keep in mind the way they were rebuild isn't aren't all the same. Original designs on '99s were fragile to begin with, but Lexus made a lot of changes to them to make replacements more reliable. A salvaged or even third party rebuilt might be more likely to have the same troubles or other troubles in a short time than one sourced by the dealer.
So if you replace the trans, I'd recommend your oil often with a good synthetic. My favorite that cured a slight oil burning from the valve guides completely is Shell Rotella-T 5W40 (synthetic in the blue bottle) sold at Walmart for about $18-19/gallon. It's not labelled an "energy conserving" oil which ultimately means it was formulated with an additive package that allows more lubrication during cold starts wear most wear occurs. It also has a wider range of viscosity (thickness) than "energy conserving" oils. It's marketed towards big diesel tractors, but it works well in many vehicles including my RX. Many motorcycle owners on forums like this swear by the synth Rotella-T, citing independent scientific surveys rather than opinion, because that kind of additive package is no longer used in common motor oils like the ones car manufacturers are forced to reccomend as energy conserving, although, I haven't noticed a bit of difference in fuel economy over the "energy conserving" rated oils.
Also, service the new transmission at least every two years with the right fluid. That is not included in normal "recommended" service by the dealer. They usually wait for failure to recommend anything.
Let us know what you decide and how it works out for you. Good luck.
Any time the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) returns to idle then over-ride the transaxle PWM voltage supply to the ATF line pressure control solenoid for the next 10-15 seconds in order to hold the line pressure high enough to support an immediate, sequential, downshift if you should need to quickly return to acceleration.
I suspect that this is something like what was done to "cure" this problem with the '01 and later RX300s except there was no time-out.
The 2000 is likely to have the same premature failure problem as the '99.
The '01 and later RX300s have a problem with overheating the ATF(***) and may REQUIRE the tow package's external cooler. Lexus recommends a drain and refill of the ATF every 15,000 miles although the owners manual has no such requirement.
If your's is F/awd then the VC for the '99 and '00 differs from the one for later RX300's so you might want to remove the VC altogether if you install as '01 or later RX300 transaxle.
*** I suspect this is due to a not well thought out, quick fix, for the premature failures of the '99 and '00 models. It would have been relatively easy to change the firmware to keep the ATF line pressure elevated for a brief period of time upon a throttle release and if the transaxle were not in top gear. But since the ATF is quite clearly overheating in these models I moreso suspect the ATF line pressure is kept elevated, PERIOD.
Salvaged/used means the unit will have similar problems lurking in the future.
So matter what kind of fix you decide on, as Mr. West pointed out, going forward it will always be a good idea to increase the tranny cooling and especially transmission service intervals. If your husband can swap the tranny, he's likely more than capable of fluid, gasket, and filter changes at least biannually, even if it's not something Lexus officially recommends. And installing an additional cooler and/or small thermostatic fan for the cooler's factory ducting in the driver's side fender might be cheap insurance, but only once it's made reliable. Either way, these are common suggestions for all kind of cars.
Good luck finding a fix that works for you. There might be a salvaged model that's a good match for your car. But an RX300 transmission expert might know, because they're likely to have done a bunch.
a few weeks back, i had a 2000 rx 300 with 77.5 miles when the trans died in elm grove WI
lexus of brookfield wi quoted 4500 to fix and offered nothing from them but went straight to lexus customer service on my behalf. i thought that was nice of them but that only resulted in 25% off of the part offer. $480.00
after seeing the other posts on this site, i expected more. so i then went into arbitration with lexus cust service only to be offered the same after 3 conversations and 3 weeks.
Lexus offered $1000 for my trade in, what an insult, both nissan and mazda offered 4k right off the bat.
So i ended up buying a new Nissan and resolving NEVER to give lexus any of our money again. They are missing out because in the past 15 yrs my hubby and i have bought 3 lexus and 4 toyotas.
I have vowed to tell anyone that will listen to dump their 99-01 RX300 before the tranny goes out.
We are very disappointed in how lexus handled everything. end of story
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
It seems that Toyota has a design flaw with their trannys. Would it be likely that Lexus will reimburse me having the service done at an indpendant shop?
Thanks,
Ron KA1CVY
My co-worker has a 1999 RX300 with 160K on it. She says she has not had any major problems with her car, but I told her to be aware of the transmission problems.
On top of that I recevied a notice that the 3.0L engine used in the RX300 may be prone to oil sludge build up which could cause the engine to seize. This letter came from Lexus.
time to trade in for a new car! Also, I dont' understand how lexus can still be rated as a very reliable car?????
The transmission thing, on the other had, they seem to be ignoring. If enough of us complain, they may budge- what think?
My transmission went out at 90K miles. However, the replacement is only a 1 year warranty. Also its a rebuilt transmission and not a new one -- you would think fo the cost it would be a brand new transmission.
If you can afford it , trade-in and buy another car. good luck!
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm
I think if they get enough complaints, maybe they will take some action.
The transmission just failed at 130K miles 200 miles from home (the car stoppped on the highway) and was towed to a Lexus dealership. After asking for help with the repair, the Service Manager offered 10% off of the $4600 bill(1 yr warranty). Called Lexus and they refused to assist.I hope someone starts a class action suit for the transmission problem. I'd be happy to join the suit. :lemon:
So I say, never again a Lexus. I will move my business to Volvo out of respect for my '99 V70 with 165,000 miles and no issues.
I did fill out a complaint form in hopes that I will get some money back if enough people complain (it worked for my Maytag washer/dryer). I still love Lexus vehicles and their service. Therefore, I can't join the NEVER AGAIN crowd but I am all about the LET'S COMPLAIN TIL THEY FIX IT group.
I hope your rebuild from Lexus lasts longer (with updated factory parts). My original tranny used to punish and burn the fluid contaminating it with worn material, but my replacement clearly is in a different league.
Watch dealer service, though... There's a strong likelihood it might help to specifically ask for regular transmission service including dropping the pan and replacing the filter (not flushing), otherwise it's likely they won't include it. Be comforted to know even though it's a sore point, in today's cars it's not unusual to find a $4000 repair on an 8 year old car.
It sounds like you're getting a "sweet" deal. :shades:
I'd like to know from the people that complain about the tranny if they stuck to the routine schedule religiously? Did they get the tow package?
P.S. I purchased my 2000 RX300 from Longo Lexus in SoCal in Dec. '99.
I have a friend with a 2000 AWD who has at least as many L.A. commuter miles (definately not babied), and I've reminded him to ask the dealer (local Toyota dealer) specifically to service the transmission with new fluid, filter, and inspection from the pan at least every couple years, which I think is a good idea regardless of model. No problems so far.
Enjoy the drive!
Please help me with what are updated parts? I am debating whether to put in a salvage or a rebuild. Based on discussion posts, it appears a used transmission is a bad gamble. Would a used 2002 or 2003 be any better than 2001 and earlier? thanks
BTW, a bottle of Lucas Transmission fix after death decree at the dealer, enabled me to drive home from orlando to tampa and totally stopped all slipping and clunky shifts. Havent tried it yet this morning...just possible last resort FYI for others with clearly worn out tranny to help keep from getting stranded
But given the history of these RX transaxles (I don't expect my '01 to last to 100k) I suspect a "shill" for Lucas is more likely the case.