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Comments
G35 = RWD
I'm not sure as to whether they are built on the same "platform" but that's a meaninless comparison between a FWD and RWD car. While the G35 isn't as balanced and crisp as a BMW 335i, it's a lot closer to 50/50 than the 60/40 Maxima. Also, the G35/G37 can be had with a proper manual transmission if there is any "4-door sports car" desire in your blood. If that matters to you.
I suggest you drive both - extensively - before making a decision. And, by the way, don't automatically assume FWD means better rain/snow traction. I had horrible wet traction in my FWD TL compared to my 1995 FWD Maxima. Difference was high performance Z rated 45 series summer tires compared to H-rated 60 series all seasons. With the 2009 Maxima and the 18/19 wheels and tires it comes with, you may end up with the worst of both worlds - not as good dry handling as a RWD car like the G, but not any better wet/snow handling due to the tires. A RWD car with all seasons will beat the FWD with summer tires everytime, as my neighbor with a 5 series proved last winter.
IMHO G35 is far superior car then Maxima...but little "more" road feel then MAX and some folks dont like that.
Maxima probably is better highway cruiser then G35.
The overseas version of the 6 is sharper looking, they definitely neutered some of the looks with the US version.
I'm not arguing that the 2009 Maxima CVT won't be attractive to "most" Camry, Accord and Buick shoppers. It certainly will. But, IMHO, if Nissan wants any chance whatsoever of recapturing even semi-serious driving enthusiasts (and making their 4DSC label less of a joke) they need to offer a manual transmission alternative. Or, at a minimum, ditch the CVT in favor of a SMG/DSG if they are only going to offer one transmission. Nissan offering a sport suspension and high performance 19" tire option on a CVT transmission is worse than Toyota putting a spoiler on a Camry and calling it a sport version. At least that spoiler doesn't need to be replaced every 15-20k miles and doesn't give those who want "buttery smooth" a rougher ride in the interim.
It's challenging enough to keep even a "sporty" label on a FWD car that has bloated from 3,000 to 3,600+ lbs, but doing so with a rubber band CVT is beyond credible.
If you prefer BMWs, that's fine, but you realize that not everyone does. The vast majority of folks drive mostly in bumper to bumper traffic, on 35 mph residential streets, or cruise on an interstate, and still manage to fined plenty of excitement in their lives.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I agree that every day driving is what most of us do in bumper to bumper traffic but if Nissan is going to charge a couple of thousand dollars to portray their car as sporty, then by all means don't just give the Maxima a bark, make the darn thing bite and bite hard.
I have nothing against the Maxima, have owned and loved all 3 of mine (the 04 was a challenge quality wise). I have something against Nissan talking the talk but not letting the car walk the walk. The engine can easily exceed 300 HP but they put that version in the fufu snob appeal Infinity and not the Sport Package Maxima, just not right.
Friggin' go away, already.
It's hogwash to claim that the definition of a driving enthusiast is predicated on manual or rough automatic transmissions.
cecilt1 - as habitat1 has made abundantly clear, the CVT tranmission is not for everyone. He clearly doesn't like it. That's fine - but that opinion is no more valid than that of those that recognize that the CVT is the transmission of the future.
The world changes. The CVT is progress in automotive technology. It's a phenominal transmission, and a lot of fun to drive...and yes, that includes being fun for driving enthusiasts.
The '09 Maxima is a FWD vehicle with virtually no torque-steer whatsoever.
It's extremely responsive, handles great, and is a heck of a lot of fun to drive. It's a pricey, luxurious, sporty car.
Is it a true sports car? No - but come on, people, get over that 4DSC spin. Nobody that buys one of these things thinks the Maxima is a Corvette. We didn't take that tag as being literal when we bought the car...why are you taking it so clearly personally?? :confuse:
On your opinion that a CVT is "a heck of a lot of fun to drive", we clearly define fun differently. A CVT has NO "friggin" driver involvement whatsoever. How in the hell can that be much "fun" or "sporty"?
On your opinion that the CVT is "progress in automotive technology". I'll grant you that compared to a old style poorly engineered Nissan 4-speed automatic. But, as much as I'm not a fan of automatics, BMW's 6-speeds and Lexus 8-speeds are better performing AND more fuel efficient than Nissan's CVT. And if the metric for progress is "sport", everyone from BMW to Audi to VW and others have developed far superior SMG's and DSG's that can be set to automatic mode when preferable. Nissan tells you humm a fake shift, if you want to remember what it was like driving an old Maxima with a manual transmssion.
For the record, I don't have a "personal" dog in this hunt. I am now fortunate enough to have a 911S as a third car and not currently looking to replace my TL 6-speed. But I still would like to see, for the benefit of others that can't or don't want to dish out $45k+ for a 335i 6-speed, a decent, more affordable "sporty" sedan alternative from Nissan. I guess I'm taking a stand for the sake of others who, hopefully, don't get all of their sports jollies from watching ESPN while eating pizza and all of their driving jollies from humming shifts to the drone of a CVT.
I can accept that. And believe me, driving is not my primary source of excitement. But, as old4cat said with less rant than me, if Nissan wants to talk the "sport" talk, they should walk the walk.
Here's an offer, get Nissan to relabel and advertise the Maxima a 4DCC ("4-Door Commuter Car), and I will exit this forum never to be seen again. That's exactly what a CVT Maxima is - and a pretty darn good one at that, with all the techno do-dads.
I don't think stoplight drag racing is a valid metric for driving enthusiasm. But since you brought it up, the 2009 Maxima with 290hp and a CVT manages to go 0-60 in a whopping 0.3 seconds faster than my 1995 Maxima with 190hp and a 5-speed manual. And my TL 6-speed with only 258hp will leave you squinting at my taillights by at least a similar margin. Granted, FWD is a significant limitation compared to RWD, but the CVT transmssion definitely has its negative impact on performance.
But beyond stoplight drag racing, the satisfaction of shifting your own gears and having direct control of the cars transmission and rpms is not uniquely limited to RWD. If push came to shove, I'd probably rather have my 1995 Maxima SE 5-speed to take on a drive through the twisties than a current BMW 3 series with an automatic transmission. Ultimate performace would go to the BMW, fun and driver involvement to the Maxima.
No, I have seen people leave forums before over disagreements and when that happens the forums are diminished and sometimes die. We need differences of opinions here to make it interesting.
Even though I disagree with you on this car you certainly have the right to your opinion. My feeling is that all cars are compromises to some extent and the Max is just what it is....and isn't.
Have you driven the new Mazda 6? Sounds like it would be to your liking.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
One of my cars is red...On a scale of 1 (easy) to 10 (hard) to keep clean, I'd vote the Sunset Red as a 7.
1) Air conditioned driver seat
2) Dual moonroofs
3) Rear seat air/radio controls in the armrest
4) LED "mood" lights in the front door handles and ceiling
5) 7" Color monitor w/rear view backup camera
6) Rear sunshade
7) Auto up/down feature on all 4 windows.
Nissan's website does a pretty good job of showing you the four different levels of interior accomodations (S, SV, Sport, and the Premium).
Everyone is welcome here as long as opinions are expressed civilly and respectfully. It's easy enough to ignore posts we wish were not here. Some of us need to practice that a bit.
Based on what could you possibly make the claim that the BMW and Lexus transmissions you mentioned above are more fuel-efficient transmissions than Nissan's CVT? I submit that you couldn't possibly know this, or make this statement, based on the published (or even real-world) MPG these cars achieve, as a little variable called the engine influences MPG just a bit.
I think I can sum up your beef against the '09 Maxima as being that a) there is no manual tranmission available and b) Nissan's marketing spin refers to it as a 4DSC.
I'll grant you this: If you are looking for a sports car with a manual tranmission, the '09 Maxima is not for you. That is what it is not , but in no way, whatsoever, does that take away from everything that the '09 Maxima is.
As of last year, manual transmissions accounted for less than 9% of all cars sold in the US. That number is heading south, and many estimates expect it to be around 6% within the next 4 years.
I know of no product that is successful at being all things for all people. I can hardly knock Nissan for focusing their energies on the 91-94% of the US market, and foregoing the expense of catering to the rest. And Nissan did this by providing one of the best automatic tranmissions on the market, the best CVT on the market, and a transmission that also gives the driver the ability to simulate 6 gear ratios (should one desire).
I do enjoy manual transmissions. If I were in the market for either a sports car or a car with a manual tranmission, I would not have purchased the Maxima. However, any lost sales that Nissan may experience due to the Maxima not having a manual tranmission will be a statistically insignificant number.
For its class (the flagship sporty sedan for a non-luxury badge), the '09 Maxima is the best overall package on the market.
But wait - don't bother responding. As the host of this forum just reminded us, we've got Ignore options, and you're now on mine.
As far as spray detailing products, I have used almost all of them, the one I find to be LEAST effective is Quick Detailer by Meguiars. It does spray off smudges, prints, and stuff like that but it does not add gloss or cover up fine hairline marks on paint like the other brands.
These are just my suggestions based on experiences, everyone here seems to be passionate about their 09 Maxima and keeping it clean should be part of that. Don't forget to use detail spray on your wheels, they are also painted and clear coated these days. Have fun!!!
Some creativity! You could also add large FWD and guess what, there is no one else in suck class. Avalon is not sporty, Passat is not large enough, makes Maxima a sure winner.
BTW, what's with using BMW name in Vein? No one in their spare mind should compare the current Maxima to the UDM.
That's pretty close. I also have issues with the Maxima's weight bloating 20% from 1995 to 2009, but the dichotomy of calling it a 4DSC and not offering a manual transimission is my bigger "beef".
any lost sales that Nissan may experience due to the Maxima not having a manual tranmission will be a statistically insignificant number.
That's where we disagree. IMO, the elimination of a manual transmission option from the Maxima coincides too directly with its loss of interest among enthusaists, its dissapearance from comparision tests against the 3 series and other ELLPS and the 75% reduction in annual sales form 1995 to 2008. And, at the same time, the Acura TL significantly reinvigorated its sales with the 2004 redesign which just happened to include a 6-speed manual, sport suspensioned version of the car. Nevermind that less than 10% of TL buyers selected a manual transmission, the automotive press went ga-ga over the TL 6-speed and all of the comparison tests were with that "sport" model. Manual transmission sales were only 10% of the total, but overall sales wer up over 100% between 2002/3 and 2004/5.
I apologize for my "passion" on this issue which makes it difficult to accept where the Maxima has gone without expressing my dissapointment and hope that they are listening. In fairness to you and others that think the current 2009 is a well balanced car, CVT notwithstanding, I will concede that point. I am only suggesting that if Nissan wants to get back the serious enthusaist and capture the full market potential via the "halo" effect, it needs to "walk the walk" with a true sport version that includes a manual transmission. I believe the benefit of doing so will, over time, far exceed an additional 8% in sales volume.
Let me also say that I appreciate a passionate debate on both sides and although our opinions may be at odds, it sure beats the hell out of apathy.
Fine - call it the flagship for a non-luxury badge.
BTW, what's with using BMW name in Vein? No one in their spare mind should compare the current Maxima to the UDM.
Now you're singing to the choir. I'm only responding to these repeated "Maxima vs. BMW" or "Maxima vs. Lexus" comparisons that the naysayers keep throwing out there.
I too find it ridiculous to compare the Maxima to the BMW.
The TL improved nicely throughout the years, overall. The TL was becoming a better car, while the Maxima was (again, overall) losing its way and becoming "just another" Japanese sedan.
The Maxima's loss of sales was symptomatic of its overall transition into a very boring car. Sure - those that would only buy a car with a manual tranmission were part of the many that jumped ship. But no matter how you look at it - that segment of the Maxima's customer base had little impact on Nissan's overall decline in sales. You can't possibly blame the loss of a feature that very few people ever bought in the first place for a 75% decline in overall sales over a period of years. Nor can you credit a feature that less than 10% of consumers purchase for a sales increase of over 100% over a period of years. Clearly, Nissan's decline and Acura's rise, throughout those years, must be credited with something more.
Nissan did many things wrong throughout those years.
The '09 Maxima is an example of Nissan once again firmly establing a brand flagship, and righting the ship.
I usually think that grey is the most boring color on cars and is at the bottom of my list. Something about Precision Grey though really looks sharp on the Maxima IMO--maybe because it looks more like a dark silver to me than grey.
MDX: did you find a blue one? Early on they were rare at introduction. I see a fair number of blues in dealer inventories now, not as many reds, very few of whatever that green color is.
I think you and habitat are both right - and wrong - to an extent.
Case in point. I own and run an engineering consulting firm that, since the early 1990's has employed roughly 100 professionals engineeres / scientists, along with a few MBA's and attorneys. We recruit up to a dozen or so new engineers annually, so our average age is in the low to mid 30's. I've watched with some interest the cars that fill our parking lot over these years. Without a doubt, the "4th generation" Maxima competed with the BMW 3 series as a "frugal" sport sedan. I distincly remember the enthusiasm for that car at the time it was intorduced. I ended up with at least 7-8 in my lot, 2 of which still survive. Probably no more than 1/3 to 1/2 of the Maximas or BMWs from that era were manual transmssions, but as habitat claims, the manual transmission was a necessity to create the brand "image" that the Maxima was a sport - or at least sporty - sedan. And if you don't think brand image is an important factor in all sales, consider that Titliest is the #1 golf ball company in the world in spite of the fact that fewer than 10% of its sales are of the $50/dozen "Professional" model used by touring pros. And Nike has become #2 in spite of the fact that you or I can't even buy the ball that Tiger uses at any price. Nissan may try its hardest to recreate the sporting image of the Maxima through advertising, but a CVT only transmission is a glaring contradiction that can't be advertised over.
I am looking out over our lot right now as I write this and there is not a single Maxima I can see from the later vintages. A few Accords and Camrys, a few G35 sedans and coupes, several late model TL's, a few Audis, 8-10 BMW 3/5 series, but not a single post 2000 Maxima.
Now, on your side, I would agree that the manual transmission is not the only factor affecting the Maxima's slide from grace as a sporty sedan. I believe they still offered a manual option well into this decade. But between the increased weight, stodgy styling and Nissan's decision to promote the Infiniti G35 as their primary sport sedan, the Maxima became a "has been".
Personally, I think habitat is fighting a losing battle, albeit for very honorable reasons. Even with a manual transmission, I don't see the Maxima ever regaining the competitive position it had in 1995. As indicated, the G35 is now the "BMW 3 series fighter". And a 2008 328i will outperform a 2009 Maxima on all counts for only a couple thousand more, killing the former Maxima's 30% lower price advantage. The Acura TL jumped in with a much sportier car in 2004 and is now going to an 300hp AWD version. A manual transmission option might help dispell some of the ridicule Nissan is getting by calling the 2009 CVT Maxima a "four door sports car", but it won't roll back the clock to 1995 anymore than I could roll back BMW's clock to 1980 when I owned an original M1 sports car. (The M6 is an abomination, IMO). So, habitat, it may be best to enjoy the memories.
I went to purchase 2009 Maxima SV premium package in Silver for MSRP $36,465 at Middletown Nissan/ Kia in upstate NY leased at 479 month 15000mi 39 month term. Salesman's name is John....said that this price was negotiable and once qualified we would talk about getting me a better deal. Approval went through and gave them insurance info...everything still going smooth.
They register it(get the plates) and insurance and call me to say they had the car shipped from other location to come in and do the final paper work...car is on site and ready to go. So I ask the salesman upon arrival "hey lets talk about that price per month and MSRP"(In Jersey and NYC) this exact model is $34,500-600 MSRP... the same vehicle with the premium package. He acts like he doesn't know what I'm talking about in front of the finance manager saying, " I never said we would discuss price?" WTF?
All of a sudden the monthly payment shoots up to $525 a month....hahaha imagine that. Oh and due to my credit not being perfect was the reasoning behind this price....credit is not as bad as they said it was....I checked months ago.
They basically said I signed a paper to approve this price (contract)which I didn't...it was just to show I paid $100 cash to show that I paid for them to run my credit! Do not give these guys any money up front...they made me pay $100 saying they could not check my backround without it. Make you sign a paper that you gave them the 100 as a receipt but really later on they are saying that you really signed contract. I'll be calling the better business bureau if I don't get my $100 back....BEWARE of these scammers! Unbelievable!
Nope - I give up. Too much could be written.
I'll just leave it at this: Change your title. You have "leasing-experience woes", not "Maxima woes."
Today's USA Today newspaper contained a full review of the 2009 Maxima. Overall, a positive review with some minor gripes. In my opinion, he spent too much time discussing the "little stuff" like praising the glove box size and criticizing the noise of the sunroof open/close function. Personally, I've not noticed any unusual noises opening/closing the sunroof.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2008-09-11-nissan-maxima_N.ht- m
I am more of a gold tone customer but they did away with sunlit sand, coral sand, pebble beach, and spirited bronze so precision grey it is.
In checking inventory in 5 dealerships near my zip code, I found that the 24 cars available were available only in some shade of black/grey (from white, silver, precision grey, slate, and black, they are all some shade of black in my opinion). To add insult to injury all the cars had charcoal (black in my book) interiors, it was like going to a funeral home and picking out a coffin, just not good. The blue is a carry over from last year. Tuscan Sun is a new better looking, deeper, and darker version of last years Sonoma Sunset. The the new green color is called Mystic Jade. So in reality only 3 colors are non-shade-of-black, not much variety in a flagship vehicle.
The interesting thing about precision grey is that most often it looks like a darker color than it is especially in the shade, very nice.
I got my 07 SE, $32,830 sticker, out the door by giving the dealer a check for $429.00 for the first monthly payment and nothing else, 39 months, 15,000 miles, tax, tag, and fees included. Really just 429.00 and out the door with only 38 payments left to pay. Monthly payment formula I use is .012 to .015 multiplied by sticker price, as long as I am within that, I sign and run, it has worked for me 5 times so far.
If you are going to accurately compare vehicles, based on the division they are produced by, and target market, then do Maxima vs. Honda Accord and TL vs. Infinity G34 (Nissan's fufu upscale luxury division (what another crock)). Any continued comparison of the non upscale Nissan division product to the upscale Honda division product are unfair and not accurately matched.
So let's see how it would work:
Honda Accord vs Nissan Maxima vs Toyota Avalon /and/ Acura TL vs Infinity G35 vs Lexus ES 350