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2010 Toyota Camry

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Comments

  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    The most common way to improve FE during cruising is to lower the engine frictional component. That typically means finding a way to operate the engine at a lower RPM, LOWER frictional component, but still produce enough torque to move the vehicle along briskly at typical road speeds/conditions.

    But.

    Improvments at the low RPM range almost always result in my HP/torque at higher RPM and vica versa.

    DFI being a good, current, example.
  • cubssoxscubssoxs Member Posts: 139
    I know everyone here is talking about changes they want on the 2010 Camry but remember this is just a refresh look at the minor changes done on model gens between 94-95, 99-00, and 04-05 they are not really major changes. I am intending on buying a 09 Camry SE (4cylinder) and really do not want to wait another year for a refreshed Camry. Although I will be curious what Toyota does for the next generation 2012 camry probably due to come out probably spring 2011.
  • phd86phd86 Member Posts: 110
    "Yes, my running average from 29K to its current 53K miles on the '04 Camry (continuous records) is 28.0 mpg. The average from new up to 15K miles was 27.3 mpg. The gap represents the period my son had the car in Los Angeles and didn't keep records. Worst believable mpg on that car is around 23 mpg, and best is 38 mpg. I'm aware of not completely filling the tank and discounting fills where only small amounts (say 6 gallons or less) are added to "top up".

    On the '05, I have complete records from new up to its current 32K miles. Worst believable is 20 mpg, best is 35 mpg. We've taken enough long-distance trips (including a 2400-mile round trip to Florida this past spring) to count on 32 mpg on the highway, using cruise and keeping to the speed limit. Also included in this trip was a 602-mile run on a single tank -- meeting your challenge -- where I refilled with 18.53 gallons, yielding (surprise!) 32+ mpg. "

    I remember both of those - it was from that latter post that I concluded that your unequalled range with low refill error constituted the upper actual limit of fuel efficiency for the automatic. Alls I wanted to say is that lots of gears do not necessarily translate into better efficiency - although it might sell more cars to those who chose to believe it.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    We already have a Real World MPG discussion for the Camry, as I know all of you know. This is not the place to continue to beat that conversation into the ground.

    Back to the future Camry, please.
  • carzzzcarzzz Member Posts: 282
    The all new Toyota AR series engine will be equipped on all 2010 I4 Camry.
    Spec: 2.5L I4 179hp/173 lb-ft torque Dual VVT-i also found in the 2009 Rav4
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    Source? What transmissions?
  • cubssoxscubssoxs Member Posts: 139
    Hey I am in the process of buying a 2009 Toyota Camry SE (4 Cylinder) and my question is it worth the wait to get the 2010 when it is supposedly coming out sometime in February or March. The refreshed model intrigues me because it has an more improved 4 cylinder engine with more horsepower.
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    Never buy the first model year of change...........
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Maybe you should move the relevant posts to the Camry MPG forum, if they can be moved en masse and still make sense.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Yes, but this is more of a mid-cycle refresh, with only the 4-cylinder engine (and tranny?) being significantly revised. I'd still take the chance, despite some having problems with the '07s when they received the new V6/6-speed auto.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    That's a good idea but at this point we need to just go there to continue. But thanks, I appreciate your suggestion.
  • madpistolmadpistol Member Posts: 126
    The Camry desperately needs a new 4-cyl. With Honda pushing a 190hp 2.4L and Nissan pushing a 175hp (180 lb/ft torque) 2.5L, Toyota desperately needs something to get them back up to par with the other "big dogs" in the Japanese Auto world. I wonder if they'll revise some of the features in the SE model too. It would be nice to include dual-zone climate control as standard.
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    What's the torque on the Accord vs. current 2.4 Camry?
  • caazcaaz Member Posts: 209
    Toyota 4 cyl 158bhp 161 ft lbs torque
    Honda 4 cyl 177bhp 161 ft lbs torque
    Honda ex 4cyl 190bhp 162 ft lbs torque

    I dont see toyota being behind since torque is what counts.

    Honda v6 271 bhp 254 ft lbs torque
    Toyota v6 268 bhp 248 ft lbs torque

    Hmmm Madpistol, i'm still not seeing Toyota way behind or needing anything really to catch up. These torque numbers tell me Toyota doesnt "desperately need "to do much of anything. They will always be neck and neck, thats what competition is all about.

    Later
    Caaz
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    I agree; besides the days of horsepower wars for 4-cylinder cars in particular should be passe. I'd rather have better fuel economy.

    I never found my former '97 Camry 4 with a "measly" 133 hp inadequate for doing what had to be done (merging into freeway traffic for one). The trick is getting up to speed on the onramp BEFORE you hit the acceleration lane. (I realize this may not be possible in places with antiquated freeways like NYC, but in VA, no problem.)
  • carzzzcarzzz Member Posts: 282
    Expect the 2010 Camry get all new AR series engine, 2.5L I4 179hp/173 lb-ft torque with Dual VVT-i. The hp rating is higher than both Accord LX's K24 & Nissan Altima's QR25. We should also expect the fuel economy to improve on Camry.

    Here is a note: Despite 2007-2009 Camry current has only 2.4L 158hp, the accord LX with 177 hp has a slower 0-60 times.
  • sortersorter Member Posts: 146
    With a 6 speed auto, the 2.5L should have 22/33 mpg.
  • waltchanwaltchan Member Posts: 124
    I saw the new 2.5L engine for the upcoming 2010 Camry. It was from a 2009 RAV-4, which will be identical. The engine is about 10% smaller than the previous 2.4L, 15% lighter, and has electric power steering. Although more fuel-efficient, I would watch out with the electric power steering because the 2010 Camry probably will not handle as well as the hydraulic ones in the 2.4L, and will probably score lower by Consumer Reports in the next test rating. If you are really concerned with handling, I suggest you to pick up a 2009 as soon as possible.
  • lucky_777lucky_777 Member Posts: 205
    Current Highlander has electric assisted steering and it works just fine. New engine, transmission, and electric steering sounds way too much for Camry midlife refresh. I don't recall Toyota making these many changes for existing models. This would be almost completely redesigned car from what is being produced now.
  • dm157dm157 Member Posts: 4
    Does anyone have a spy shot yet of the 2010 Toyota Camry? I realize this will only be a mid cycle refresh but I think the front end (grill? lights?) is changing.
  • waltchanwaltchan Member Posts: 124
    New engine and electric power steering are confirmed for 2010, but Toyota is still debating whether to continue using 5-speed automatic or 6-speed automatic.
  • dm157dm157 Member Posts: 4
    To "seatoyotasales": Does your PowerPoint have a picture of the 2010 Toyota Camry? Or is there any other source that might?
  • samnoesamnoe Member Posts: 731
    Electric power steering can be dangerous for Camry. The Corolla with the electric steering is getting so many bad reviews, like never before for a Toyota. Yeah, I know some owners report "it's not that bad, you get used to it, etc. etc.". but why take a chance. I think it's not improving much the mileage - maybe 0.5 mpg better? So don't bother. The steering of the current cars are already behind competitors (at least in the eyes of the driving enthusiast's), and electric assisted will make it even worse. So my suggestion to Toyota, get rid of the electric steering, and get back to the regular steering with good feedback, on both, the Camry and Corolla.

    The Corolla Still sold well due to the excellent fuel economy (best in class, according to CR), so if mileage is the main concern, it will not affect the product as much, but the Camry is more than just a top-mileage vehicle. It is the benchmark for midsize sedans. So I recommend to watch out.

    I also hope to see in the 2010 illuminated controls for all power windows, door locks, and mirrors. And bluetooth available in ALL models.
  • waltchanwaltchan Member Posts: 124
    I'm afraid that electric power steering in 2010 Camry is already final and there will not be any more modifications in the new 2.5L I4 engine. I predict when 2010 comes, Toyota Camry's rating will drop at least 5 points, making Camry's rating behind Hyundai Sonata and Chevrolet Malibu for the first time ever, and possibly Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan as well.
  • walterkohwalterkoh Member Posts: 1
    hi all,
    anyone has any pic for the facelift camry? there are suppose to be 2 types of design, one for japan domestic, one for export, like ASEAN and australia, we got the design made in thailand.
    cant wait to see the facelift version.
    the other thing is, if its 2.5L, confirm 6-speed auto? confirm production in feb 2009?
    cheers
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Auto manufacturers are doing everything possible to improve FE.

    Electric power stearing will be only one of those.

    I would have advised a variable displacement ATF pump within the transaxle to supply pressure for both functions.

    The newest Porsche 911 engine uses an electric pump for engine internal lubrication to avoid the HUGE level of overpumping with a standard gear type pump at high engine RPM, 20HP gain...(?).
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    If you are really concerned with handling, I suggest you to pick up a 2009 as soon as possible.

    If you are really concerned with handling, I suggest looking at other vehicles besides Toyota. I don't drive sports cars, but rather 4-door midsizers, but the Toyota's combo of a brake pedal with all the confidence-inspiring feel of mirangue and uncommunicative truck-like steering makes for a very unsecure feeling when maneuvering, to me. Even the SE suffers from numbness.

    I'm not expecting it, but I'm hopeful that this is improved for 2010.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Anyone really concerned with handling would NEVER consider a FWD or F/AWD vehicle.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    There you go again, as Ronald Reagan would have said.

    Oh the horror of front-wheel drive!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Those of us who don't race on track-days but still appreciate the benefits of the front-drive vehicles offered in the marketplace will certainly consider vehicles with good handling. The Camry just isn't one of those.

    What are you doing here in a Camry forum, anyway? Shouldn't you be out powersliding somewhere? :);)
  • samnoesamnoe Member Posts: 731
    "...anyone has any pic for the facelift Camry?..."

    While I don't have any pic, my prediction is that it will not be as good as the current version. Leave it for Toyota -- every mid-cycle refresh must be worse than the first version, so it looks like an afterthought. If you remember the last Camry redesign (I think it was 2005) you'll know what I mean. Same for other models, like Sienna, etc.

    The new refreshed 2010 Ford Fusion, on the other hand, seems to be much more advanced in design, and will be an improvement over the current version -- especially in the front grille section, which will blend beautifully into the front end.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Somehow he thinks understeer is the worst thing in the world. So you may be on to something -- powersliding is the way to go! ;)
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    When I "powerslide" my RWD vehicle, or inadvertently find the rear attempting to "lead", I still have, as a rule, the front wheel traction with which to maintain directional control.

    No one in their right mind would intentionally drive a FWD into an "understearing" circumstance on the public roadbeds in wintertime since recovery is simply a "game of chance". But then there is the subject of unintentional or inadvertent "understearing", in those conditions, what then...??
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    With the Stability Control systems which are standard in many vehicles (including the 2010 Camry, the new Mazda 6, Honda Accord, Hyundai Sonata, et cetera), you'll be no better off in a rear-drive car than a front-drive car.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "...you'll be no better off..."

    Wrong, DEAD wrong...!!

    Assuming equally capable VSC systems the RWD or R/AWD will still remain less hazardous overall, but certainly so in wintertime conditions.

    Look at how, what most VSC systems do for a vehicle that is understearing. On the assumption that the front wheels have no "reserve" traction they dethrottle the engine and apply braking to the rear wheels, hopefully remaining with some "reserve" traction. Some of newer vehicles with electric power stearing will even apply a counter-stearing force to the stearing wheel against your stearing control input.

    With over-stearing it is presumed that some reserve traction remains at the front so differential braking is used at the front to create a "moment" counter to the over-stearing direction.

    But in a rather strange way it may be that you are correct.

    Since wheelspin/slip due to engine torque is so potentially hazardous in a FWD or F/AWD the VSC/TC systems will be inordinately QUICK, in comparison to RWD or R/AWD(***), to dethrottle the engine the very INSTANT wheelspin/slip is detected.

    The result.....??

    Increased SAFETY of FWD and F/AWD since fewer FWD and F/AWD owners will venture out once they initially encounter TC activation.

    *** Since the potential for loss of directional control isn't as great for RWD or R/AWD vehicles many TC systems delay dethrottling the engine for several hundred milliseconds once wheelspin/slips develops due to engine torque. If the driver doesn't respond fairly quickly by feathering the throttle then TC will then dethrottle the engine.
  • aalsherriaalsherri Member Posts: 68
    The first time I heard about it is from Yamaha. It is used in some of their ATVs. It is efficient and clean. It may take some time before the auto manufacturers bring it to perfection in terms of durability and handling. If the long term durability exceeds the current hydraulic system, then there is no point of going back to the hydraulic pump. Also, I believe the electric motor should be cheaper and easier to change than the pump.
  • waltchanwaltchan Member Posts: 124
    Should the electric motor go out in the electric power steering, will the vehicle steering stop functioning all together, and you cannot turn the wheel at all, making it a deathtrap in a major accident? That's my major concern. It may be more dangerous than hydraulic steerings.
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    Walt, don't fret until we see the actual deployment.

    This could easily just be a small little electric/hydraulic pump using the same steering as today....in which case you'd still have steering. I'm sure the engineers' have thought about loosing electrical power.
  • lucky_777lucky_777 Member Posts: 205
    It is not fully electrical steering but electrically assisted. You still will be able to steer even if electrical assist will die, just going to be much tougher to turn the steering wheel. Technology seems to be OK, I have it on my 08 HL and it works without any problems.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Nothing could be worse than trying to stear, turn your stearing wheel, with a DEAD PS pump.

    Most current electric power stearing systems have an overheat mode wherein it operates at reduced capacity if used "too"(??) much. Apparently a few owners have already encountered this problem.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Actually, steering without power assist isn't much of a problem except when operating the vehicle at very low speeds.

    My granddad preferred the non-power steering of his old Honda to the power-assisted steering on his Frontier. Said it was much easier to keep straight on the highway.
  • madpistolmadpistol Member Posts: 126
    Most companies are compensating with increased stiffness at high speeds when using electric power steering. I also have to say that using my Altima at low speeds is a breeze. In fact, it's much easier than any other midsize sedan I've tested thus far. However, it's still very responsive, and it stiffens up when traveling at higher speeds.

    Honestly, you can say whatever you want about FWD vs. RWD cars. The problem is during this day, RWD sedans have become associated with Luxury/sports cars far more than regular sedans. It's very difficult to find a RWD sedan for < $30k. The exceptions are the Pontiac G8 and the Dodge Charger/Chrysler 300C, which both cars can EASILY be pushed above $30k by adding on a few options. Realize that the only import car is the G8... since the G8 is Australian, is that considered an upgrade or a downgrade compared to domestics?

    Back on topic, I've heard about the woes of the Corolla's EPS, but I haven't experienced it first hand yet. Some people describe it like "steering a brick" except that the brick would at least tell you what its limits were. :surprise:

    Hopefully, the 2010 Camry will stay clear of this sort of approach.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Sure. Even my old '96 Accord has "Torque-Sensitive" hydraulic power steering. My point was that losing power-steering assist when driving wouldn't really be "dangerous" unless you were driving at extra-legal speeds on a curvy road. Otherwise, it'd just firm up the steering. ;)
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Obviously you have never encountered a condition of PS pump failure. You not only have to use enough energy to turn the wheels but now you have to "PUSH" the hydraulic fluid "around".
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Obviously you have never encountered a condition of PS pump failure

    Sorry, you're wrong.

    I've driven a car with power steering when the vehicle stalled/died at speed. All hydraulic power was lost (electricals were fine, however). Losing braking power was the issue; losing power steering wasn't a problem at all.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "At speed" isn't generally a problem as the need to turn widely isn't there.

    Think of having to parallel park, for instance.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    The danger is awfully low if you aren't "at speed." If my power steering fails, I'm not going to parallel park somewhere. I'm going to get the thing fixed! :)
  • rtdunhamrtdunham Member Posts: 2
    mayow wrote: " Edmunds says that the new Prius may hit 100mpg. If that is true..."

    yeah, but read the article. there's a misleading headline and nothing in the story to support that 100mpg claim. lousy journalism.
  • seatoyotasalesseatoyotasales Member Posts: 36
    2010 Camry's will begin production in March of 09. To confirm some changes:

    1. NEW 2.5 4 Cyl engine.
    2. New front and rear bumpers, grill, headlights, taillights.
    3. New Wheel Design.

    Speculative changes:

    1. A new color or two
    2. Gen 6 Nav system
    3. Minor interior trim changes--gauge and control fonts may change.
    4. More availability of Smart Key on models other than XLE.
    5. Hybrid version may get more trim/exterior mods to differentiate it from gas models.

    More to come if I can confirm any other changes.
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    Do you know anything about transmissions for the 4 cylinder?
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