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Comments
Jim
Here you go Cliffy.....your first vote!
Current Tally: Buzz 3 Cliffy 1
Cliffy 2
Current Tally
Buzz 4
Cliffy 2
(or whatever Garrison Keillor is always saying).
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Buzz 4
Cliffy 4
jacksonm, I think you missed scname's vote.
Let's make this like the Super Bowl! Close to the last few seconds! But I guess this'll be harder to figure out who's closer to winning than the Super Bowl though.
David Letterman, "Stupid Pet Tricks"
Mulling over my vote...vote for sale...any offers?
Is April 30th and prior for Buzz and August 1st and later for Cliffy reasonable?
Thanks for the quote attribution kjack100.
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
And Austin18, what has Buzz ever posted that was true? All he has ever done is tell us his "source" says March. I've said I hope he is right, but have my doubts.
I also emailed another Toyota dealer and got the same answer Cliffy's been giving us.
I don't know what Buzzlight has been right or wrong about. But, that screen name does remind me of the Neil Diamond E.T. song. Buzz, I hope you're right because the wheels are falling off my 4Runner and want to get the new body style.
So with all due respect, for Cliffy's health, a vote for Cliffy.
Cliffy 8
Buzz 4
Buzz 6
Cliffy 8
Catch some big ones, Cliffy, and watch those anchor lines.
Steve
Host
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Bob
Here's a link to a Mag-X, artist's renditon of a future Toyota Prado that was posted on MAG-X last October. So, I guess I was wrong about the LandCruiser Prado link I posted a while back being a redesign.
http://www.mag-x.com/scoop/prado0110/index.html
Click on the vehicle, and you get a bigger photo.
Hey, maybe Cliffy really went to Chicago?
Cliffy 9
Buzz 5
Chicago Auto Show Schedule
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
What they need to do is work on a Tundra Crew Cab, not that idiotic step side.
Bob
regards
1) Depreciation - Everything I have seen on Land Rovers leads me to believe you will take a beating on resale value.
2) Reliability - Again I believe the Toyota will be superior.
3) Comfort - I've only been in one Discovery but it would not suit my needs. If you do hardcore off-roading then it may be the better choice for you. But if you are looking at moderate off-roading or something to drive to the mall, I'd pick the 4Runner hands down. I thought the ride on the Discovery sucked.
My quick 2 cents.
Why I chose the 4Runner over a disco
1. Engine produces approx the same HP with better mileage and regular gas
2. Reliability
3. Better dealer network. There is one Rover dealer in KC. The next is 300 miles east to St Louis or 600 miles west to denver. Any problems in between and I'm in for a long tow.
4. Has traction control like Disco, plus skid control and a locking center diff(for off-road) which new Discos lack.
Those are the main reasons, but there are a few others.
Gary
PS. Go easy on Cliffy, he's been really helpful to this forum and doesn't deserve all the stupid comments.
I paid 35,000 for my 2000 4runner Limited. Of course for that kind of money I could have bought a Discovery SE or saved some money and bought a Pathfinder LE.
Here are my reasons for choosing the 4runner over the Disco:
1. Reliability: Look at J.D. Powers 5 year quality survey. As I recall, the 4runner ranked first among intermediate SUVs. It also does well in Intellichoice's surveys as well as Consumer Reports (although CR doesn't give a reliability evaluation for Disco's)
2. Resale: If you look around here in the Boston area, '96 Discos can be had for 16,500 to 17,000. '96 4runners are also in the same ballpark, but the 4runners were atleast a few thousand cheaper to buy in the first place.
3. Dealer network: I am constantly going up to my in-laws in southern Vermont, where there is no Ye Olde Land Rover Shoppe. Land Rover Centres are mainly found in large urban areas. If you plan on going offroading in rural areas (as I do), you are a long ways away from a dealer if something breaks.
4. Cheaper parts: Unless you are handy, better cross your fingers nothing goes wrong with the Rover.
5. Center Locking Diff: My 2000 limited has the multimode system, which is basically an AWD system, plus a traditional locking center diff (with low range) plus a elec. rear locker. The (newer) Disco has NO center locking diff; just some traction control using the brakes. IMO, brake-based traction systems, esp. w/out a center locking diff (a la Disco, Mercedes ML and BMW X-thing) are garbage off-road. You'll wear out your pads and warp you brakes in no time, and if ALL four wheels are slipping (i.e. in snow up a hill, scrambling for purchase), then you will grind to a traction-control induced halt.
6. Electric Rear Window Tailgate: I've got a 110 pound dog. Nuff said.
7. Lower Roof: I ski. Hard to get a proper ski-rack on a Disco that doesn't require stilts.
So what's good about the Disco? Shorter overhangs, solid axles front and rear, cool shape, rarer, and of course, upscale image.
If you simply must have a Rover, then of course, nothing, least of all a Toyota, will do. I understand. I was bitten by the bug when I studied abroad in England back in the early 90s, before they started importing the Disco I in the states. I thought they looked fantastic.
However, what brought be back to my senses was the realization that ultimately, the point of a 4x4 is to get you there and back. Its not a fashion statement. I knew I would be driving alot in very rural parts of Vermont where the roads aren't paved and the nearest store would be 12 miles away. If my rig wasn't 100% reliable, me and my family would be in for a very long, cold walk.
This sentiment has been shared by many others who live in remote parts of the world. Despite all of the marketing hype from Land Rover, these days most people in the Middle East, Africa, Australia and Asia drive Toyota Landcruisers (albeit different from the ones we have here), as well as Nissan Patrols and Mitsubishis (as attested to by all the beat-up toyotas hiluxes and series 70s and 90s you saw Afghans driving in all the war footage). When getting back really counts, fashion tends to go by the wayside.
Anyways, to sum: if you can stand some reliablity issues, and want to be different, get the Disco. If you need reliable transportation, and need offroadability, get the 4runner. And if you don't need to go offroad, DON'T GET EITHER. Your probably better off with a more car-like SUV with a unibody and independent suspension. Or save the planet and get a Prius ...
Bob, the stepside Tundra is...well...I see why Cliffy is studying Chevy brochures now. Maybe looking for a new work after seeing that thing.
Jynewf summed it up great. 4Runner hands down over the Disco, IMO. The one thing you have in the Disco is originality. But for the 4Runner, great dealer network and rock solid reliability.
I have a 97 Limited 4 wheel drive with 76,000 miles. There is not one rattle. And until last week, when I got a 60,000 mile service, only oil changes and tires and wiper blades..that's it. Drives as new.
Buzz...ya missed one on that Solara.
Cliffy 9
Buzz 6
On your 2000 limited, I thought the limited that year came with the traction control system bundled in with the multi-mode 4WD. Do you have the Tracs and an electric locking diff?
Gary
-Kelly
The ECT button basically changes the shift points on the transmission. With the ECT button "on", the engine stays longer in each gear.
http://www.outdoorwire.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=13&t=007204
1. gas milage was mentioned..disco gets 13 , 4 runner gets 16..not a huge difference, in fact maybe 300 more per year..so no big deal when 30,000 is involved in the 1st place..
2. the size of the disco is big, big, big..the 4runner seems like pipsueak next to a disco..so cargo area and such favor the disco..
3. now the biggest of all that is mentioned and this is where i am confused..it goes without saying that 4runner is incredibly reliable, and i love the look, well made, etc..but my disco dealer says the 2002 are very realiable.(whte else is he going to say), but he was serious..he was like, look, they had problems in the past, but 85% of this suv is all new parts he said..bla bla bla..how do i really know..jd powers had problems with the old ones 98, 99 years etc..maybe land rover has reliable disco now?? how do i really know..i will be honest, for about the same price..SD i can get for 31,900..and lets be honest its pretty loaded, the interior looks like a BMW or mercedes, not like a japanese SUV, like the 4runner, whose int is sort of plain..so im having a tough decision..i guess it comes down to looks or practicality..disco wins hands down in looks, but 4runner is amzing suv in dependability and performance...
any advice for me please??
thanks in advance...
As far as your comments:
1. I agree. They both have lousy mileage. Two more things to consider: (a) one knock against the Disco: the Disco only takes premium. Not a big deal now, but if prices spike up again, it sure is hard to swallow paying that extra 20-30 cents; (b) one knock against the 4runner: the 4runner has a VERY small gas tank (only 18.5 gallons! No one ever tells you this in the car reviews!). I think most cars have atleast 14-15 gallon tanks. Never with any other vehicle have I been so acutely aware of when to time my next filling (it also doesn't help that I'm one of those anal types who doesn't like his tank to be less than 1/3 full, esp. in cold weather).
2. I disagree with you with respect to cargo areas; if you use the 'compare vehicle' feature on the Edmunds site, you will see that the 4runner has a max cargo area of 80 cu.ft (40 cu.ft with the seats up); the Disco has a max cargo area of 63 cu.ft. (40.5 with the seats up). The 4runner has much more cargo space; moreover, I found the space in the Disco to be configured in such a way that it wasn't very useful to me (I have to move a large, long dog carrier around). The Disco's cargo space is very tall, and not very deep.
However, I DO agree with you that the Disco's passenger space felt much more airy and open. I'm 6 ft, and even with the seat all the way back, I feel cramped in the 4runner, like the sides and roof are coming in on me. However, with the Disco, I had plenty of head room.
3. As far as the Disco 2002's reliability? Who knows? I certainly don't. Obviously, the people on the Disco boards have their own opinion about this. Suffice it to say that the Runner's reputation in this area is established and well deserved. Although you are always rolling the dice on any vehicle you buy (even Toyota makes an occasional lemon), lets just say the odds are better that a 'yota will be more trouble free than a Rover. I mean, even the staunchest Rover fanatic will admit that you will have to deal, at the very least, with niggling problems (i.e. trim pieces falling off, leaks, squeaks, etc.). As an nitpicky person, I know I couldn't stand to deal with niggling problems, let along big ones. You'll just have to decide what your own pain threshold is with respect to such issues.
Good luck, and happy wheelin'