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Toyota Prius vs VW Golf TDI
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Comments
Moparbad uses a not so well known publication in order to prove that a group of not so well known auto reviewers dont like taking a spin on a Prius
Reality: The Prius has the highest ownership satisfaction rate among all autos (Consumers Report). If you want to find out how satisfying a Prius is why not ask the owners instead?
Gagrice likes his Sequoia and old Lexus and strongly urges all Prius owners to buy a Yaris instead.
Reality: What the hell has this got to do with this discussion.
Marlyece thinks that all members should be left alone to enjoy the Golf.
Reality: Before you issue a restraining order did you ever bother looking at the title of this forum?
Thammer62 presents to everyone the positives and negatives about both VW TDI and the Prius
Reality: How on earth are we suppose to have a debate when you are so agreeable?
Bottom line: THe VW TDI does not even come close to being as fuel efficient as a Prius. The VW TDI is highly uncomfortable for a fifth rear passenger when compared to a Prius. It lacks the great technology that a Prius has. It's not much better than the prior generation VW TDI. It's a complex new diesel and with VW's track record in terms of reliabilty that can be very bad news. The VW TDI is pathetic in terms of fuel mileage in slow city traffic. The Prius is a great fuel miser on both the highway and slow city traffic. The Golf has a long history of reliability issues. The VW TDI uses diesel which can fluctuate far more than gasoline and as a result a higher degree of unpredicable fuel costs. It's harder to find diesel than gasoline which can be a big inconvenience.
Oh yes and did I forget to mention that the Prius has the highest ownership satisfaction among all cars. I thought I did. I
OK now I can leave all you VW Golf fans alone.
No need for that restraining order.
If you look to your right you will see the 2010 Prius and the current customer rating. It has gone down. Prius topped out in customer satisfaction with the 2006 MY. While the only current VW in the same class the Jetta TDI has gone above the Prius in customer satisfaction. I would imagine the same will hold true for the Golf TDI when it arrives. So far this is a debate about a vehicle very few have gotten to drive. It will be good when we have input from actual drivers like ourselves. Will the fleet average MPG be as high with the Golf TDI as the Prius. I doubt it. Most people buying the Golf actually like to drive. They enjoy the torque and pull the diesel offers on mountain roads. Something a Prius driver will never experience. I would say that makes ignorance bliss. They can enjoy their spreadsheets showing 54.1 MPG.
Re torque, don't forget that the combined torque of the Prius' powertrain is pretty hefty--258 lb-ft. The Golf TDI may have more usable torque in the mountain passes, but if you don't have mountain passes, it's not a big advantage.
Do you want to see how I can give the VW Golf an overall rating of 9.8 out of 10 based on 1,000 reviews instead of 8.7 o/o 10 based on 16 reviews?? Give me a couple of days and the VW will have 984 more reviews....all 10's.
How about some facts like the one based on 425,000 responses from the world's biggest automotive survey :
Consumers Report 2009 Survey
For the fifth year in a row, the gas/electric Toyota Prius hybrid is the top car for owner satisfaction. That's the news from our latest Annual Car Owner Satisfaction Survey, conducted by the Consumer Reports National Research Center. Ninety-three percent of Prius owners who responded said they would definitely buy or lease one again. The Prius was closely followed by the Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (92 percent) and the new Mini Cooper Clubman (91 percent).
A 54.1 MPG on a spreadsheet and an overwhelming love for the Prius as expressed consistently for 5 years in the world's biggest auto survey may not amount to much for you. But then again I wont confuse you with facts.
link title.
Well what can you say. The seats are not comfortable, the ride is numb and disconnected from the road, wind/road noise is at a premium, very jittery over any type of non-smooth pavement. However, going green is the way to go. We need more of these types of cars only with better execution...
I've owned this 2010 Prius IV for 1500 miles. I've been getting 55-60mpg mixed city and highway. That's about the nicest thing you can say about this car. For the $29k I paid, I expected a LOT more. A mazda3 or a civic and a big gas bill would have been a much better value. The brakes are ridiculous. If you go over a pothole, you're going to lose all braking power for about 3 seconds. For a car with traction control and electronic brake distribution this is simply unacceptable. In power mode the car drives well and has some spunk. Normal and Eco modes are just nanny modes that deaden the accelerator. Thanks, but I know how to drive and like to accelerate without having to floor it.
Both gave the Prius high marks for Mileage. With the lowest marks for fun to drive. That is the difference between the two cars being debated. Prius has lots of gizmos for the geek with great mileage. The Golf TDI has driver comfort, performance, mileage and handling for the person that really enjoys driving. Should make the choice easy if people really know what they like.
Opinions of two people conveys the truth about a Prius.
Kydsyder, John and myself as a population alone outweighs the opinion of these two disgruntled people.
There are hundreds of thousands of Prius owners and yes oh yes you will be able to find a few disgruntled owners among them if you search hard enough. Unfortunately the majority of them are the most satisfied auto owners for the last five years. PERIOD!!!
Golf comfort? Not on the rear seat. Unless you ofcourse you find subcompact comfortable.
Golf TDI perormance and handling? Oh Puhleeeze. This econobox is a far cry from any performance vehicle.
Golf Mileage? Subpar when compared to the Prius
The one advantage about the Golf is that any celebrity would be embarassed to be seen in one. I find the celebrity cachet of the Prius as somewhat annoying since I am a low profile person myself.
So just how many Prius owners responded. And how many unhappy Prius owners canceled their subscription to CR for being led astray?
Let's look at the CR report from a scientific angle. For the sake of argument let's say you have 10,000 Camry owners and only 89% would buy another Camry. You have 500 Prius owners with 93% saying they would buy again. Does that make the Prius more popular by some stretch of the imagination? I like my Sequoia in some ways. I would not buy another one because of the PP service from the dealer. Just too many variables to give that 93% any kind of credibility.
Two highly irrelevant issues here in flat Ontario Canada but highly releveant in the spot where Priuses tend to be most popular: Califronia :P
Go figure?
I just like playing Devil's Advocate and I hope I wasn't too snarky with my last posts. The VW Golf just won the World Car of the Year Award and that in itself says a lot.
The robot driving the Prius almost exists today with self-park, lane change warning system and those sensors/radar to prevent accidents. Soon there will be no need for a robot.
Hmmm...I didn't realize that SF was so flat LOL
OK, I forgot about downtown SF. I wonder if a Prius would be able to make it up some of those very steep streets when it rains. I know many have complained about the traction control leaving them stuck in snow and slick surfaces. The VW Passat TDI that I owned had a switch to give full driving control to the driver. A Big Plus.
"We found the Prius, in the end, offered a really top-notch interior, a peppy ride and great mileage," said Patrick Olsen, editor-in-chief of Cars.com. "There were several close competitors, but the Prius's new look and frugal ways won us over."
The full report airs on MotorWeek episode 2902. Here are the results of the MotorWeek and Cars.com Power & Economy Drive by the numbers:
Car Type .......................... Drive mpg .... EPA mpg
--- ---- ....................................--------- -------
1. 2010 Toyota Prius hybrid .......................... 49.2 ... 50.0
2. 2010 Honda Insight hybrid........................ 40.5 ... 41.0
3. 2010 Audi A3 TDI diesel............................38.2 ... 34.0
4. 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI diesel............36.2 ... 34.0
5. 2009 Smart ForTwo gasoline powered.....35.3 ... 36.0
6. 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid hybrid ............. 32.9 ... 39.0
Here's the link...MotorWeek TV and Cars.com Feature Fuel Economy Face-Off
Same trip, same company, somewhat different perspective...
Then there's the small number of samples.
My own way to use these reviews would be to throw out the top ten % and the bottom ten % then average the remaining 80%. Top 20% and Bottom 20%?
However the revenue goes to the shareholders. That's as American as I need it to be.
So, if I... an American... own VW stock, then VW is American? And if a Japanese citizen owns Ford stock, Ford is now Japanese?
:confuse:
Actually, it's because VW intentionally limits the number of TDI sales in the US as so to have enough to meet their European sales targets. Currently, their diesel engine factory does not have the capacity to meet all their projected sales.
So yes if more Japanese citizens and banks and funds own MSFT stock than American citizens and banks and funds than MSFT is a 'Japanese-owned' company. That seems pretty obvious.
What's the difference? A Camcord is a Camcord is a Camcord.
Now compare a Passat vs Mazda6 vs Camcord... that'd be interesting.
If there were enough demand here, VW would add the capacity for it. Maybe they could build Golf TDIs (using that new U.S. diesel factory) alongside the new mid-sized sedan being built in the States.
Actually, they were just replying to your original assertation that VW seats were cr@p in the '90s.
BTW: Have you considered the amount of smug your emitting into the atmosphere from your Pious?
:P
Sweet! I can't wait to see all the lawsuits that will be filed against the state of NY for setting red light times above the 3 minute mark - mandating it's citizenry to violate the state's own laws.
:P
That, and it comes with a little robot R2 unit as a rechargeable dog-bot.
:P
Imagine how much cooler the planet would be if you had just kept your 1st generation Prius!
Think of the *CHILDREN*!!! (and the clams, too!)
:surprise:
But it's not going to be building diesel engines, though.
Wassup Ford?
How do you figure? EPA estimates are just standardized measures.
The road test revealed 49.2 and 36.2 values, which point out a rather huge difference.
.
How do I figure what john?
Observation is that EPA mpg underestimates mpg for diesels and over estimates mpg for hybrids.
Does not matter in the least concerning the Prius as it would not interest me if it was rated at 70 mpg. Mileage can not fix the many faults of the Prius.
No Prius.
No, the epic battle between diesel and hybrid is not over. Not by a long shot. But sometimes it seems as if we're throwing feathers at throttle pedals. TDI vs Prius
I'd like to see Edmunds compare the 2010 Golf TDI to the 2010 Prius. Will be nice to see the Prius get spanked again.
The Saturn was not sold to anyone. That Two-Mode was canceled, never making it to market.
The diesel wasn't green on two counts. MPG was nothing to write home about (30/41) and the emission rating was bottom of the scale (Tier 2, Bin 5).
Of course, if you note the date of publish, much is revealed. There is something interesting after all.
.
The 2nd 'discount' occurred in the early 90's the last 'discount' occurred in Sept 2007.
Facts are your friend. The rest of your rant is victim-speak for 'Woe is me and the dark cloud that always follows me.'
http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/2009/08/2009-edmunds-fuel-sipper-smackd- own-hybrids-versus-diesel-and-mini.html
"The Back Roads
The champ: 2010 Toyota Prius with 47.2 mpg
2nd Place: 2010 Honda Insight with 44.1 mpg
3rd Place: 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI with 41.2 mpg
4th Place: 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid with 39.6 mpg
5th Place: 2009 Mini Cooper with 38.5 mpg
This was the diesel Jetta's domain last year, but the all-new 2009 model falls back in the pack to a still-impressive 41.2 mpg due to a more powerful turbodiesel engine that did a better job tackling the extended grades through the Mojave and Death Valley. The all-new Prius, on the other hand, maintains its pace to take the first victory. As expected, the Insight came close to the Prius, but its mild-hybrid technology couldn't match the Toyota's full-hybrid setup, which features more battery power and a more highly developed ability to run on electricity only."
"The City
The champ: 2010 Toyota Prius with 48.7 mpg
2nd Place: 2010 Honda Insight with 43.4 mpg
3rd Place: 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid with 35.1 mpg
4th Place: 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI with 31.6 mpg
5th Place: 2009 Mini Cooper with 30.1 mpg
As expected, the 2010 Fusion Hybrid moved up in the rankings and the Jetta TDI took a dive during the 200-mile city driving loop through suburban Las Vegas."
"The Highway
The champ: 2010 Toyota Prius with 47.4 mpg
2nd Place: 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI with 40.6 mpg
3rd Place: 2010 Honda Insight with 38.6 mpg
4th Place: 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid with 36 mpg
5th Place: 2009 Mini Cooper with 33.3 mpg"
Oh, wait a sec.. you actually referred to the comparo of the old Gen 2 Prius to the current Gen TDI....Buwahahahahaha!!!! Ahhh, now I see..... You need to grasp at the slightest breath of positive fresh air, sort of like being alone at sea with no help in sight, ehhh? Here I'll throw you another gasp of fresh air. The current gen TDI is better than the Gen 1 Prius....: Have a blast.. :shades:
All I am saying is I will trade that 25% mileage difference for upper 30s overall mpg AND have fun driving each and every day in the new Golf. To each his own.
http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/2008/05/2009-jetta-tdis-mediocre-epa-ra- ting-not-whole-story.html
August 21, 2009, 1:42 pm
Mileage Champs Break Another Record in VW Jetta TDI
Together, the Taylors own nearly 40 world records for fuel economy, and this month they added to their tally by breaking the mileage record for driving the 48 contiguous United States. Their mark: 67.9 miles per gallon, achieved over 19 days and some 9,500 miles in a 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI.
Indeed, the folks at the Guinness Book of World Records have some pretty strict rules about mileage driving — even a minor traffic violation would have disqualified the Taylors. For record-verification purposes, a Shell station manager checked their odometer at each stop. The couple also took time-stamped photographs at each state line.
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/21/mileage-champs-break-another-record-i- n-vw-jetta-tdi/
The fuel economy testing methods were created back when the FE ratings were first required to be shown on the Maroney labels. Nothing has been done to the testing protocols since then. What has been done is that the numbers have had 2 discounts applied to the data to make then numbers more accurate for day to day driving. I thought everyone knew this!! :confuse:
If they drove a 2010 Prius their mileage would be significantly better. So why is a Prius not on the world record books? Because nobody on earth can drive as fuel efficeintly as the Taylors. This is more about the driver than the car itself. Nobody else makes it their career to beat 40 world records.
I look forward to the day when the Taylors drive a Prius because then that VW TDI mileage figure will look subpar at best. Unlike the second generation Prius the third generation has far superior highway mileage. There is no other car offered by any mainstream auto company that can beat the Prius in terms of city/highway mileage. NONE.
As one poster previously quoted: "Why do we Prius owners always focus on MPG?" The reason is because the Prius mileage is alway being challenged here. Why? I guess fiction makes better reading than facts. Such as this idea of a EPA conspiracy? I guess anyone can make up conspiracies about almost anything including whether the latest Elvis seen in Vegas is nothing other than the ghost of Elvis.
I am grateful I dont own such a VW.
I owned a problematical 07 BMW 335i that caused so much aggravation that I will neverbuy a BMW again. I hated it so much that I sold it even before the 4 year warranty expired.
Superior German engineering without quality control is junk. Unfortunately there is a lot of German junk out there.
Show me a German auto maker that can make a car as reliable as a Prius and I will show you Mercedes Benz in the 1970s and the early 80s. Unfortunately that involves history books and not the cars that are sold today at their dealerships
Unfortunately it's not here. Do you know where I can access it?
Interestingly, they used CR data, Edmunds data, and fueleconomy.gov data as a 'sanity check' as they developed their formulae. Again, the comment about underpredicting diesel by 18% can no longer be found.
http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/420d06002.pdf